Suns Outrun Rockets 115-105

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 17, 2007 10:15 PM MST

These are the kind of games that it's fun to be a basketball fan, fun to be an NBA fan, and fun to be a Suns fan.

The Phoenix Suns defeated the Houston Rockets tonight in a fast-paced game that featured tremendous effort and big plays, especially by Amare in the fourth quarter. STAT scored 7 points in the 4th, working well in tandem with Nash.

The Blur had 21 points tonight as did Stat.

Luis Scola led the Rockets with 20 points and 11 rebounds in an inspired performance. Mike James was terrific in relief of TMac, scoring 17, but was quiet for most of the second half.

The Suns shot 62.3% from the field, including 70% in the first half. Ridiculous. Of course, they also had 25 turnovers, which is also ridiculous. They were highly efficient with the ball, though, with a 111.7 efficiency rating. They got killed (again) on the offensive glass, 16-4.

So how did the suns pull this off, never trailing?

They hit a ridiculous amount of shots. Nash is getting better with each game. He's back to having the same kind of vision, seeing plays develop. And in the fourth, after the Rockets pulled into single digits, he really took control of the offense.

STAT picked up his fifth foul at the 8:58 mark on another Luis Scola flop (you can tell he's been around San Antonio). That seemed to light a fire under him. And by light a fire, I mean piss him off to no end. Instead of picking up a dumb 6th foul, he got angry and started taking it out in transition, finishing strong at the basket.

Barbosa was terrific, though he did have 6 turnovers.

The Suns played Ming really well, keeping him to only 12. For the most part Stat was on him, and they'd bring either Matrix or Diaw over on the double. They challenged everything from him on the inside.

Luis Scola really impressed me tonight. He played with tremendous motor, always going after rebounds, steals, and making great post moves. I'm really, really, really glad the Spurs got rid of him. Mike James was really great, and he's the answer at point guard for a hungry Rockets team.

I think TMac being out actually helped the Rockets tonight because they were able to go to a smaller lineup. They just couldn't shoot the same. They also struggled in the first half with Grant Hill. Hill was terrific in the first half, hitting the 18 footers, attacking the rim, and playing smart. He cooled off in the second, but that's where the big guns started to shine.

I think the biggest thing that you can take from this game is that when the Suns shoot well and attack the basket, they can face down a team with any size. They can also overcome turnovers and their horrific lack of rebounding if they challenge shots inside and work the offense. The Suns 103 pace factor shows that they're back to full speed.

Oh, yeah, and the suns finally found their 3 point shot going 10-19 for 53%. Eric Piatowski had 2 of them. I'll say that again.

Eric Piatowski had 2 3-pointers.

It was a lot of fun, guys. See you next time.

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Comments

Rebounds

I thought when I first read your post (re: rebounds) that it didn't jive w/ the game I watched and the numbers support that.

The Suns out-rebounded the Rockets 48 - 40 w/ a 44-24 edge on the D glass. Now, in a game where the Suns shot such a high % I am not sure these stat's matter but what I saw was the Suns hussle and fight for boards and launch their attack quickly of missed Houston baskets. Phx also had 10 blocks to 0 for Houston.

Btw - I was in Houston recently and it really does deserve the title "Armpit of America".

The turnovers where high as where the 10 missed FT's but all in all the Suns proved once again that the Rockets can't hang w/ us. They actually looked more fluid w/ Yao sitting and certainly seem like they might have more options then last year. But they can't run w/ us and don't have the depth. Also, based on this game they are missing Van Balky's defensive tenacity which was like a terrier latched on to the leg of a giant.

Let's hope they can take out either Dallas, Utah or SA in the playoffs before we meet them.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 17, 2007 10:56 PM MST reply actions

my thinking exactly...

on playoffs, lets hope they're good enough to beat SA or Dallas.

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 17, 2007 11:11 PM MST up reply actions

Dallas yes, SA ?

It just seems that those drives and open 3s simply don't exist against that blasted team.

The day Phoenix shoots 70% in a half against SA, that's the day we know we no longer have to worry about the Spurs.

downintx.com

by kidjay on Nov 18, 2007 8:41 AM MST up reply actions

We did blow out SA

Last year in game 2 of the playoffs and I believe also during the season while the Spurs haven't blown out the Suns in a meaningful game in years.

I think their edge is mental, some luck, bad refs, LB's elbow and a few key breaks. The Suns have all the horses they need to beat the Spurs while SA is living on the edge if they have one of their top three go down or even play bad.

There's not a single team that can spread the scoring load like Phx can and can kill you from anywhere. With Hill this year and even Boris, LB and Stat the mid-range game is improved. Even Skinner has shown more offensive ability then people thought he would.

If Marks and Banks could ever get minutes they would be part of that mix as well.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 18, 2007 9:06 AM MST up reply actions

Luis Scola

I do believe I made a prediction about him. :) (Both that he would be great against us if given minutes, and also that it wouldn't be enough). Sounds like I missed a good one. I'll have to catch it on League Pass archives tomorrow night or Monday.

by TexSUN on Nov 18, 2007 1:00 AM MST reply actions

Piatkowski

Great game, fun to watch.

I know Raja was out, so maybe that's why Pi played at all, but the fact that he's gotten into a couple games in quality time makes me wonder if they're seeing if he can hack it in sort of a (gagging as I type it) Brent Barry role. Come in, make a couple 3-pointers, don't do anything stupid.

by SueB on Nov 18, 2007 9:04 AM MST reply actions

You have to factor

in the fact that Suns shot insanely well. I mean, ridiculously, crazily well. That's going to affect the number of rebounds they're going to get defensively. And on the surface, it looks like we grabbed a lot of rebounds, compared to them.

I'm working on a theorem I'm going to try and apply to last year's and this year's Suns team. In Oliver's Basketball On Paper , he talks about how the most important factors statistically are field goal %, assists, and defensive rebounding %. The reason I mention this is that it's not necessarily how many offensive rebounds you get (though in the case of the Spurs, that seems to be a huge factor in wins vs. losses for them), it's how many you allow. When the Suns allow a high number, that's how teams make runs on them and stay in games.

I'm not complaining about tonight's performance, it was great. And Marion was crashing the boards. Part of the rebounding differential though, from what I saw, came from the Suns luring the Rockets into the run and gun. Once that happens, you create a floor space where you're taking quick shots and not letting your rebounders get into position. This happened on several possessions. But during the ridiculous run the Rockets made at the start of the third, that's how they did it. From 7 seconds left in the third, through 7:30 left in the fourth, the Rockets nabbed 4 offensive rebounds. That was part of a 11-0 run. Coincidence?

Part of what I struggle with when I explain my frustration with Suns rebounding is that I don't want them to change the scheme. I don't want them to slow it down. I don't want any shift at all, because there's a reason it's so entertaining and so effective. But small adjustments, slight increases in focus and attention could mean the difference between the 1 seed and the 2 seed. And the more I'm watching the league this year, the more it seems that the West may entirely be decided by seedings.

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 18, 2007 9:11 AM MST reply actions

good comments

very strong points on offensive rebounding allowed vs runs against us, etc

it makes me hope that somebody with the suns glances through the comments here once in a while, they're probably already aware, but, if they didn't know...

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 18, 2007 3:46 PM MST up reply actions

As a side note

I'd like to mention that the Phoenix Suns are currently last in offensive rebounds allowed. To put it in perspective? Their tied with the Seattle Supersonics at 140. The Suns have played one less game than the Sonics. That's a bad sign.

Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this team. I'm saying there are things they can do that will make them even better.

And by "better" I mean, "better than the Spurs."

I know how close last year was, and I know we can beat the Spurs. I want to feel lik it's not such a damn toss-up. Closing off offensive rebounds will help that.

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 18, 2007 10:54 AM MST reply actions

What's is going to take?

I wonder if the Suns as small as they are can possibly expect to do well in this area. Time and again I see Suns players w/ good position lose the battle to a bigger guy.

Sure, I would love for the Suns to get a 7ft athletic guy like Petro or Sene from Seattle (yes, I am still wishing for one of those two) to occasionally fill that role but then what happens on offense when you plug in a slower non-shooting player?

For me, its a trade off worth taking. If the Suns had cut their turnovers by 50% and increased FT makes by 50% this game would have been a blow out. Those are areas that will improve w/o compromise.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 18, 2007 12:01 PM MST up reply actions

I hear what you're saying

and it's a valid point. I'm not saying even necessarily that we need a major trade. If we can just get Skinner and Diaw to be a little more focused off the bench on shoring up rebounds, I think we'll be fine. I don't even want to win this category, I just don't want to get annihilated in it. Does that make sense?

If we were to make a move, though, it's not like swingmen that can rebound and run are in short supply in the league right now. There's a high price on centers and point guards, but the Hawks have a about a million of them.

But in the end, maybe you're right. Maybe we just need to give them the second chances, rely on shooting a really high % and hope for the best.

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 18, 2007 12:45 PM MST up reply actions

Plan A, B and C

I think in the regular season the Suns' Plan A is to have fun and win on offense. Plan A can be w/ drive and kicks, pick and rolls, posting up Amare or Boris (against a guard) and of course fast breaks and 3's. Plan A is good. Plan A is fun. Plan A has lots of sub-plans so that if the 3's aren't falling they can still win w/ Plan A.

Plan A says that the best defense is a great offense. I like Plan A. Plan A works I guess about 80% of the time.

Plan B is to play hard, agressive, energetic D and that includes focus on the glass. We saw this for stretches in the first game of the year against Seatle and for times against Orlando and Miami. It really wasn't needed much against the hapless Knicks and Bulls and obviously when you are shooting the lights out like last night then Plan A All the Way.

The Suns this year have looked better at Plan B when they've had to go to it. Their help D is much better this year and blocks and steals are up.

I just don't think they should or need to go to Plan B each and every minute of all 82 games. But I think in stretches they can hold their own. Its just a matter of picking their spots.

Oh, and Plan C? I think their names are Marks, Banks, DJ, Pike and Tucker. I'm not sure though because we haven't seen much of Plan C.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 18, 2007 3:30 PM MST up reply actions

I would agree

And I need to take that into consideration.

Last night was strange, because, while Phoenix never trailed, and really put the game out of reach early and never looked back, it just never felt like that because of all the second chance points.

If Plan B shows up in the regular season against Dallas, SA, LA, Orlando, and Boston, I'll be completely happy.

by Ridiculous Matt on Nov 18, 2007 3:42 PM MST up reply actions

Stats - OB vs FB

Thinking more about this, I wonder if there's a way to corelate 2nd chance pt dif vs fast break pt dif with wins and losses.

One thing I have noticed is that the Suns often release a wing player after the other team shoots in order to get open for the outlet pass if the Suns get the rebound or even a quick forward pass on a make.

So, for us we worry over OB's but other teams (and their blogger fans) must worry about all the easy fast break points. Often in games where the Suns get some early easy layups off rebounds the other team stops crashing the boards so hard in order to cover back in transition. This deffinately happened against Houston. This does slow down the Suns break but it also cuts down on 2nd chance points against.

Best defense (against 2nd chance points) is a great offense (fast break points).

Its the ying and yang.

Very few teams seem to be able to both crash the O glass and cover well in transition.

Dallas and SA come to mind and its b/c both have non-scoring big men who have single minded purpose for rebounding while their wing players hussle back after their post player (TD or Dirk) or slasher/shooters (Manu, Parker, Terry, Howard) release the ball. Nick Collison fills this role nicely as well which could be why he gives us fits too.

What's interesting is to watch Amare try and fill this role. I have been impressed w/ his focus on D and rebounding early in the game and letting other guys score but then he's still there late to get low post points or draw a foul down the stretch. This happened against Houston and the Bulls. Now, Amare has a way to go before he's Alonzo Mourning but he and the team seem to be taking scoring pressure off him so he can improve in this area. That will pay off huge if it works and there's no reason w/ his ability that it can't. And what a luxury to have so many options that you don't have to rely on Amare's offense like SA and Dallas have to rely on Dirk and TD.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 18, 2007 7:26 PM MST up reply actions

My Pike Theory

Here's my Theory on why Pike is getting the extra minutes.

Pike is a nice guy and likely does all the things between games that the coaches want to see from Banks and the others. So, to reward Pike and send a message to the others early in the season he gets some message minutes.

He's a nice shooter but his defense sucks and we can barely handle the ball. Banks is a MUCH more talented player and the reason for his not playing MUST be something off the court.

Its a nice luxury to have to be able to play a guy like Pike knowing that we can still beat teams. I hope Coach D does more of that even if it means a few loses or closer games.

by Seth Pollack on Nov 18, 2007 12:04 PM MST reply actions

Notes on the game

I'm ecstatic about the way that Hill and Barbosa have been playing lately. Over the past 3 games, Hill has been averaging 21.0 pts 3.3 reb 3.0 ast per game and shooting 50% from behind the arc. Over the past 4 games, Barbosa has been averaging 27.0 pts 4.3 reb 3.5 ast per game and shooting 18 for 30 (60%) behind the arc. Those are some pretty damn good numbers.

Is anyone else noticing more traveling calls this year? I know they said they were gonna try to crack down on it, but they seem to say that every year and never do. I for one am all for it.

I'm pretty upset about how much Nash and the rest of the starters are playing near the end of games when it seems like we have the game in hand. This worries me because...

its even more minutes for the starters that will add up as the season goes along
chance of injury to one of the main guys and
the bench doesn't get the valuable experience that it could from the last couple minutes of the game.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased with how we are playing, but how can you not be with a 8 and 2 record over the first 10 games.

by brian13 on Nov 18, 2007 5:04 PM MST reply actions

good comments brian13

I especially agree with the too many minutes for Nash, and some other starters. Marion would be the one player I wouldn't worry as much about, but the others, need 4-8 minutes less, and thereby more (wait, I mean some instead of none) playing time for the bench.

On Marion, I've seen this, and heard this from my direct Suns connection, friend through work in Phoenix who has a direct friend who works with the Suns organization. This is the comment....Marion is amazing, he can run and run, and keep on going, and he has been very good at playing through his injuries. I wasn't too happy a few months ago with the Marion situation, but I've all but forgotten about it, and cheer for him (he is our 1-2nd best player)!

8-2 YEAH!!

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 18, 2007 7:07 PM MST up reply actions

Counter Point

I have been harping on this issue as well - getting more minutes for the bench but here's a counter point.

At this early point in the season the starters still need to work their way into Suns game shape and also kind of reconnect and integrate Grant Hill. So, maybe those minutes now are like an extended training camp and in a few more weeks we will see them go down and the rotation opened up more.

Btw - Nash is at 33.8 MPG down from last year and 70th in the league. The highest Sun is Marion at #19 (37.7 MPG).
Link to MPG Stats

by Seth Pollack on Nov 18, 2007 7:40 PM MST up reply actions

srp...

good counter point, has a lot of merit definitely. I love reading this blog :-)

by jasonsuns1 on Nov 19, 2007 12:25 AM MST up reply actions

Wow!

Lots of discussion going on today looks like. I just got in a bit ago and haven't had time to read it all yet. Looks like I won't get to see the game on archives (blacked out, grumble), so I appreciate everyone giving their thoughts so I can at least get an idea of what I missed. :) Figures the Suns would have their best game of the season to date on one I can't watch even after the fact.

by TexSUN on Nov 19, 2007 12:29 AM MST reply actions