KT dealt to Sonics in the worst trade ever!

by Vash01 on Jul 20, 2007 10:42 AM MDT Comment 23 comments

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0720kurttraded-CR.html

How stupid can the Suns FO get? They gave away two first round draft picks along with KT, for their second round pick! Are these people complete idiots, or is Sarver doing everything possible to ruin this team?

If we had any chances of winning the championship and having a decent team in the future, they are gone because of this idiot Sarver.

Mark Cuban, please buy the Suns!

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Let's think this through

What if they now have the trade exception and can make a blockbuster trade? They don't have KT's salary to worry about any longer and could actually pull off a 3-way trade to get KG. And the trade kicker that would make KG's contract unattainable could be covered by the $8 million trade exception.

I think we need to wait and see what else the FO pulls off now that this trade is done.

by baller on Jul 20, 2007 11:02 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Wrong!

The glass is half empty, huh?

Have a little faith. The Suns ownership is past dumping salaries at this point, they are moving towards a big pickup. Everyone complained to no end when Bryan Colangelo started making decisions to clear the cap and eventually make a better team. I am sure that you were complaining in a similar fashion when the Suns traded Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway for trash so that they could eventually acquire a player named Steve Nash.

That turned out terribly, wouldn't you say?

by ASUmike on Jul 20, 2007 11:03 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I was in the minority

and took a renewed interest in the team when Bryan traded Steph and Penny.

It doesn't seem likely there's any plan to bring someone significant in. Not when they're so obviously desperate to shead a contract that they'll "pay" for the favor with multiple draft picks.

Kurt was a very useful role player with a desirable expiring contract. Not a useless player with a bad, multi-year deal.

by marionette on Jul 21, 2007 3:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

What a joke

This team's front office is obviously more about the bottom line than about winning titles. They slammed Colangelo every chance they got for spending too wildly with the Suns and Dbacks, but at least everyone knew he cared and he was trying. The only thing this ownership group cares about is their bank account. Unless this is a prelude to some major player acquisition, they'll get absolutely blasted and deservedly so.

They have demonstrated horrible, horrible asset management ever since Sarver came on board by trading or selling all of their first round picks when they could have added quality pieces to help win games. Sarver almost killed the Rattlers through mismanagement before mercifully selling the team, now it looks like he's got the same plan for the Suns.

by Beatuofa on Jul 20, 2007 11:05 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Front Office

Horrible asset management? Name a legitimate, no risk, asset that they have dealt where they could have added a quality piece instead?

The Suns have NOT dealt Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudamire, or Steve Nash. I could even understand if it was LB, Boris Diaw, or Raja. But KT? He is definitely a quality low post defender, but nothing that is irreplaceable.

by ASUmike on Jul 20, 2007 11:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

picks

What about the pick that turned into Luol Deng? That was several years ago, but it was also because they didn't want to pay the guaranteed first round money. I thought Deng was one of the most solid prospects in that draft - not a superstar, but a very good player with little downside.

This is not to mention the other first round picks that could have provided depth and a nice transition once Nash gets older.

Had the Suns had some foresight, they could have been a much better team today, and a much better team in the future. What other team trades all their first round picks??? It is sheer stupidity.

This team has a limited time window to win, so they better go all in now. Because when Nash breaks down, this team has a good chance of falling apart, and they won't have any first round picks to replenish the team. In 5 years, this could be a very sad team.

by supernova on Jul 20, 2007 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dang Deng

I have thought alot about that move. Looking back its easy to say Deng would have been great but the bottom line is that NO NBA team can have too many stars. It create locker room as well as salary issues. Look what happened w/ Joe Johnson.

As it is, the Suns had 1st Team All NBA Players and 3 allstars. I am pretty sure there was no other team w/ 3 all stars. Add in LB and Bell and even Boris and the Suns are/were loaded.

My only complaint is that they didn't find a way to get a young 7ft athletic type somewhere along the way to be a decent role player. Oh, and of course the Banks deal which was a huge mistake.

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 20, 2007 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

deng

Deng seems to be a team-oriented player - I don't think there would have much of a clash of egos. I think the Suns could easily have found 20-25 minutes a night for him.

Then, after having him develop a year or two, it makes it easier to trade Marion and his hefty salary and have a ready made replacement who can step in without losing too much.

Although I don't like it, I can be at peace with selling draft picks in the 20s by telling myself they wouldn't pan out anyway. But, basically giving away a premium pick (number 7 I think) just doesn't make sense.

by supernova on Jul 20, 2007 6:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The trade

The issue is not whether KT is expendable or not. The issue is that the Suns have given up TWO 1st round draft picks (2008 and 2010) and all they are getting in return is a second round pick and a TE (plus 8 million in Sarver's pocket). This sounds like a trade that would kill the Suns chances of building a future through the draft (of course Sarver would have sold those picks for 3 million dollars each to Portland or another team!).

In my eyes this is not a TRADE! It is just a way to put money in Sarver's pockets. Seattle knew how important money was to Sarver, so they could ask for 2 first round picks and a player from the Suns while giving up just one second round pick. Their ridiculous demand was even granted because the FO has no brain or they are not allowed to think logically (I mean in Sports terms, not banking terms).

Sarver should be fired.

by Vash01 on Jul 20, 2007 12:43 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Sarver

is not taking the trade exception into his pocket. It is a useful tool that will help to add additional assets to the team. Sarver probably had little to nothing to do with this deal. Also, it is extremely difficult to fire someone who is a majority owner in an investment group that purchased the Suns as just that...an investment. You can't fault him for trying to make money; and frankly, he knows that making money is directly tied to winning.

by ASUmike on Jul 20, 2007 1:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sarver

Are you kidding me? Sarver had nothing to do with this deal? It was all about money!

Kerr has already said that the Suns are not likely to use the trade exception (so why waste two F*ing draft picks on it?)

No Sarver, does not understand sports. He is a banker. All he cares about is his profit. Cuban is a jerk overall, but he is dedicated to the Mavs winning a championship. All I have seen Sarver do since last year is sabotage any chances the Suns may have of winning.

KT was not worth 16 million, but he was the best avaiable (and the only one on the Suns roster) defensive guy. No one else is available, other than a bench warmer, and evne that will cost some money. The Suns still are 2 million over the salary cap. PJ Brown wants to either play for a Florida team or retire- that's what PJ said. Have you been listening to the radio? If the Suns want to recruit PJ, they will need plenty of money, and he still may not agree.

Sarver could actually make more money by winning the championship but he does not have the foresight for that. His thinking is short term. I have yet to see a smart decision from Kerr, and I believe that is because Sarver makes all the decisions, without understanding the sports business, which is different from banking business.

I agree that you cannot fire a majority owner (he won't fire himself). A few years down the road, he will sell the team to an out of town bidder who will offer him a lot of money and we will lose our Suns.

by Vash01 on Jul 21, 2007 2:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

picks

I absolutely agree. No team can survive giving away all their first round picks like this. This is the case in every sport, but especially one with a salary cap. You have to have good home grown talent to balance out higher priced players.

Steve Kerr has shown that he is just a shill for Sarver. Right now, not only is this team looking like it'll fall short of a championship in its already closing window of opportunity, but it looks even worse in the future.

Look what Minnesota has been like without first round picks. That'll be the Suns when Nash goes - except Amare isn't as good as Garnett and probably won't be able to carry the team to the playoffs.

by supernova on Jul 20, 2007 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before you guys

totally blast this move, why don't we let it sink in and see what comes out of it? This Chicken Little bullshit is a bit much. This is the same team that has battled through alot of unfortunate situations over the last 3 seasons and came out smelling like a rose damn near every time.

Nobody here knows exactly why this deal was done and I don't think it's fair to throw Sarver or Kerr under the bus without having all of the information at hand. I would expect this from the posters on the espn.com boards but here?

by AZSEAfan on Jul 20, 2007 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

subject

the suns have a good nucleus. they have been a good team and will be a good team for a few more years. but that doesn't make selling all these first rounders a good idea. what else has selling the first rounders done other than to save money? if they think things through, they should realize that to build a team under a salary cap, first round draft picks are very very important.

the 2008 pick they gave away is likely not a great pick, as i expect the suns to do well. But the 2010 pick? by then, Nash may well have broken down and it may even be a lottery pick.

i don't think any of these complaints are bullshit, they are absolutely justifiable. by saving a few million here, the team is setting itself but for a major fall later.

by supernova on Jul 20, 2007 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much

do first rounders get paid and where exactly would they fit in our rotation?

I don't think anyone's opinion is bullshit. I just feel that people should read more than the Cliff's Notes when you're writing Doctoral Dissertation. The bottom line is that we don't have the whole story.

As far as the money goes, the Suns team is also a business and it's in a very difficult spot. Picking between the 2 choices, would you rather have Marion (or Amare) or would you rather have us paying draft picks that may or may not be good? You really can't have them both with the salaries we're dishing out already. I just don't think blaming Sarver for not being George Steinbrenner is very fair.

by AZSEAfan on Jul 20, 2007 5:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

subject

the suns are definitely a business first and foremost - i agree that no team should be losing money. the thing is, it just seems giving away first round picks is not the wisest business decision either. those picks turn into cheap labor and allow you to replace more expensive players.

suppose the suns had kept the deng pick - that would have made it easier for them to trade marion. or suppose they had kept nate robinson or rajon rando, then they wouldn't need marcus banks or even barbosa.

those picks could have given the suns a team just as good as the one now, but at a cheaper price.

by supernova on Jul 20, 2007 6:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy to say that

while looking in hindsight. No one knew what type of player that Deng would become. There were plenty of other teams that had the ability to draft him but didn't. When he was drafted, we had no room to develop him like a crappy Chicago team did. We already had one project at that time and that was Barbosa. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that he turned out alright. Nate Robinson blows and Rondo (who may turn out good) can't even get quality time for a really bad Celtic team.

I understand the urgency in winning it all before Nash turns to dust but we have one of, if not the best, team in the league. We don't need those guys and who's to say they could even fit the current system?

by AZSEAfan on Jul 20, 2007 11:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Steve, Amare and Shawn

were all Suns DRAFT PICKS!

by marionette on Jul 21, 2007 3:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

whatever

First, Luol Deng was the number 7 draft pick. Not many teams "had the ability to draft him but didn't". He was one of a safest picks in the draft, not some project. He was highly recruited from high school and he produced at a big time program at Duke.

Nate Robinson isn't great, but he can put up points, and Rajon Rondo is a very good backup who could spell Nash. Both would have been much better and cheaper than Marcus Banks.

by supernova on Jul 21, 2007 1:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can read

the draft order just as well as you. There were a few lesser players picked before Deng. And, he would have been a project because he wasn't going to get alot of playing time with the guys we already had. Tough for a bench player to get better with a 6-7 man rotation.

I agree that Banks was not the answer last year but alot of people thought that he would do a decent job at backup PG. So it didn't happen and they overpaid...big deal.

by AZSEAfan on Jul 22, 2007 12:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is something else up? There has to be! Please!

Unless there's something else in the works, this is retarded.

I don't know ... this seems so ludricrous I have to believe something is in the works.

And, I hope it's not picking up some re-tread center.

I'll just keep telling myself it's to free up money for KG; otherwise, I may go postal over this one.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 20, 2007 1:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

This is the worst Suns trade since

DJ for Robey. Jerry threw in cash or a pick as well on that one (I've spent last 24 yrs trying to forget). There were apologists and spin doctors then too.

So all you defenders, please tell us, how many draft picks need be "traded" before you'll agree that the future's been sold?

I'm no psychiatrist, but it seems like some people are in denial.

Weird thing is, assuming good health, the team should be about as good as before. But watch out for defensive problems as the season goes on. Opponent FG% always went up eventually, whenever Kurt was out w/injury.

And playoff fatigue from the short rotation and constant interior double teaming.

by marionette on Jul 21, 2007 3:13 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

exactly. this team will suffer on defense and will be tired after a long season playing in such a tight rotation. if we had the draft picks from the past, we would have more players that can be trusted to give the starters more rest, instead of the likes of Sean Marks.

it'll only get worse as the main core ages.

by supernova on Jul 21, 2007 1:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs