Broken Pieces: Thoughts on Shawn Marion and "The Insider"

by TexSUN on Sep 26, 2007 6:17 AM MDT in Suns News Comment 35 comments

"What got broken here doesn't go back together."

When I first read that Shawn Marion wants to be traded, that quote from Al Pacino's character was one of several from the movie The Insider that immediately came to mind. It doesn't matter now if Shawn or the Suns have a change of heart. The words have been spoken, and it's too late to take them back. There are teammates who won't forget. There are fans who won't forget. And the media will never forget. Ever. Any attempt to keep the Matrix in a Suns uniform at this point would likely carry with it such an enormous distraction that it probably isn't even worth pursuing. In short, what's done is done, and there's no turning back the clock. Time to move on, as Marion says.

"I'm just a commodity to you, aren't I?"

Is it fair to put all the blame on the Suns for failing to realize just how unhappy Shawn had become? I don't think so. But I don't think it's fair to blame Shawn 100% for it either. Let's put this in a "real world" perspective for a moment. Say you've worked for a company for eight years. You were there before any of your co-workers. You have poured your heart and soul into it, hardly ever missing a day, and yet it always seems like your accomplishments are barely mentioned while two of your co-workers get most of the credit. And if that weren't enough to make you feel like Dilbert on a bad day, you have to listen every year to rumors that you're going to be transferred to another division. You know you'll never get promoted, you're not likely to be invited back once your current project is through (unless you take a sizable pay cut), and on top of that, you get to hear your name come up in every bleeping rumor about personnel changes that comes across your boss's desk! Even if you were working for the best company in the world, there would probably come a time when you'd finally decide it's best to go ahead and part ways while you still had at least some control of your destiny.

"You don't get to 'instruct' anything around here!"

The Suns have every reason to feel slighted too, though. They have made Shawn their highest-paid player, and kept him all this time because--whether he realizes it or not--they value what he brings to this team! It is perfectly reasonable for them to expect him to fulfill the contract he signed, even if it means dealing with trades and rumors that are a normal part of life in the NBA. Did the Suns try to send him to Boston so they could obtain Kevin Garnett? Probably. But come on! How many players in the league would not be gladly offered up by their team's GM for a guy like KG? You could probably count them on one hand! And lest we forget, Boston really, really wanted Shawn! Couldn't he somehow manage to feel good about that? Didn't he learn anything from Steve Nash's experience with Dallas?

"I fought for you and I still fight for you!"

We fans have a right to feel jilted as well. In our own way, we have fought for Shawn. We have cheered him on for years. We have defended him to detractors. We have shared his frustration at the repeated trade rumors, and the inexplicable, inexcusable snubbing by those who vote on the All-Defensive team. We have thoroughly enjoyed watching every alley-oop dunk, every steal, every rebound. For some of us, he's even a major part of why we started watching the Suns to begin with. We wanted him to succeed. We wanted him to be happy here. Most of all, we wanted him to share in the joy of getting to win a championship with this team. His trade request is like a slap in the face to every one of us who have invested our time, our energy, and our money to watch him play. We deserved better than this public "laundry-airing" that will hurt his value and lessen our team.

"Is there an echo in here? Your objection's been recorded."

Perhaps the media shares some of the blame as well, and bloggers like me who have jumped on every chance to make a mountain out of a molehill whenever Shawn (or Amare or anyone else for that matter) says something that could be construed as controversial. It's a great way to get a discussion going (or sell a newspaper), but is it possible all that talk about Shawn being disgruntled eventually turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy? After all, it was the media who constantly brought those trade rumors to his attention time and time again, needling him like some mean little kid taunting a caged animal with a stick. And the rest of us just couldn't link to those articles fast enough, pouncing on quotes that may or may not have been taken out of context. Perhaps on some small level, we all helped to create this problem.

"Do you wish you hadn't come forward? Do you wish you hadn't blown the whistle?"

There is a part of me that believes, and even hopes that Shawn will realize a year from now he has made a huge mistake. It is a normal reaction of the jilted to wish regret on the person who did the jilting. But when it comes down to it, I can also appreciate that Shawn has been a loyal employee of the Suns for the past eight years. In all that time, he never allowed his unhappiness to stand between him and his team. Were the Suns to keep him despite his request, I have no doubt he would go out there and leave it all on the floor like he always has. I also believe he means it when he says he loves his teammates, Phoenix, and the fans. There is no way I can wish anything but the best for him, regardless of how angry I am at the moment. Whatever it is he's looking for, I truly hope he finds it. But I certainly won't mind if he has an "off" night whenever he plays the Suns.

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nice but...

He gets more money per year than 260 people ($50,000) total do, if that's not something to show what a great life he has, how much the suns appreciate him, or how easily he can provide for his loved ones, then he's kind of like the big lottery winner who still is unhappy and never will be. He's friends with Kobe, guess they have something in common now.. complaining about their tough life...these comments come with the thought that the quotes recently read were from Marion, if the guy really cares about the fans, he'd have someone setup a blog for him and talk to fans for a week, every day for 2 hours.

The trade talks, that part of basketball, someone needs to tell Marion that the phoenix suns aren't his father, and them looking into trades isn't like a father abandoning his son, but more like a
company looking to get stronger. K.G. is one of the top 2-3 players of the past 15 years, Marion is not. He's not even in the top 25 in my book (but close). If he actually realized this, it'd save everyone a lot of writing... but, like many athletes, I honestly feel Marion needs to be recognized as the best (or his ego can't handle it).. problem is, he's not the best and he wouldn't be on half the teams in the league.

I like Marion, but these comments (IF they're true, which at this point is looking like they are) have greatly hurt the Suns chances in a trade. Now, other teams know clearly, what was once maybe just an idea, that Marion wants to go. And now the Suns are likely not going to be able to get as much in a trade as they might have...

In what may be one of Marion's last moves as a Sun, he didn't keep quiet and leave when he could've (Boston) and really helped the Suns who have paid him so much. Instead he scre.ed us and is doing it again...

If your mad about what I've written... think of this... K.Thomas didn't say stuff like this and hurt us, he was and is a professional and has acted like one during his entire stay here, and while leaving. K.Thomas will always have my respect, he's someone that if I see him on a plane, I'll get very excited to know that I've just met a pro player and a good man...There's more to being an nba player than just skills, you need to act professional and realize it's a business and no one is beyond being traded.

Sad day for Suns fans, seems we have a few players who don't know (and haven't been taught, or won't learn) how to handle the media. Look at Nash, even he was civil with Cuban during the trade. It was only after Cuban started making very public statements on tv that Nash responded... Nash was willing to be quiet and professional, Cuban doesn't know what the word is..

by jasonsuns1 on Sep 26, 2007 8:31 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade him!

The matrix is what i thought he was. He is what I thought he was, but if you wanna trade his ass, then trade him! But the Matrix is what I thought he was...and we let him off the hook!

by Aluminum Foyle on Sep 26, 2007 7:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get him out...

If he wants a trade, then trade him. The Suns have done everything they could do to make Shawn happy. What else could they have done? Give him more "respect"? How have they not respected him? Because there were rumors about him being traded? Did the Suns start the rumors? Did they do anything when someone made an offer? Sure, the Celtics thing almost happened but that was only after Shawn had expressed interest in leaving in his passive-agressive answers during interviews.

I don't see where the Suns are in the wrong here. Is it because they won't give Shawn an extension of $60 million over 3 years (reported by Paul Coro)? He's already making $17 million. That's more than any player on the Suns and the 12th highest in the league. Is he really the 12th best player in the league? Is he the best player on the Suns? Is he even the 2nd best?

I've given the benefit of the doubt to Shawn for a long time. But when he's giving up the opportunity to play with Steve, Amare, Grant, Raja and Boris by requesting a trade, I think it is Shawn who has the problem. Not the rest of the guys.

Shawn says, "I haven't done anything wrong. I leave it on the floor night in and night out." Does he really? And, if he does, is that enough? Basketball is a team sport. So is just going out and playing hard enough? Or do you need to respect your teammates and realize that maybe, just maybe, they have something they can offer you?

According to Coro's article, Shawn says he doesn't have a problem with any players but won't talk about any staffers. So despite him saying the Suns' unwillingness to extend his deal is only part of the reason he wants to leave, his comments about management makes it seem like the extension is a bigger reason than he's admitting.

He says he leaves it on the floor night in and night out. Yet he is the only Suns player (don't forget about being the highest paid player) who hasn't showed up for anything this summer. Seems to me that if you're on a team, you participate with the team. If nothing else, his not showing up until he absolutely has to just tells his teammates that he's expecting them to work hard during the summer but that he's above that.

I hope the Suns trade Shawn soon and I hope it's not to the Lakers - if only because that's where he wants to go. Then again, maybe the Suns should trade him to the Lakers and make him realize how good he had it playing with Steve. If he thinks he doesn't get the ball enough and doesn't get enough credit in Phoenix, just wait until he's in LA and Kobe gets all the credit (and takes all the shots).

If they can get rid of him before training camp, even better. Then the team can focus on the team instead of on what seems to be a very selfish player.

by baller on Sep 26, 2007 9:21 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

USA Today Effect

I think you hit on quite a bit with the idea of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I will cite two examples. One, USA Today runs a poll and then writes a news story about it. Two, with almost no advance promotion (paid commercial spots), Star Wars Episode I is hyped by the media and then the media asks, "Can it live up to the hype?"

This makes me think that the Matrix is not the sharpest tool in the shed (yes, I know he's not a rocket surgeon, but I'm talking relative to other ballers). Does he just read the headlines and the captions under the photos? I suppose someone who watches cartoons all of his adult life might have problems thinking deeply about something.

All of this reminds me of a quote from Howard Cosell, "He's widely regarded as the most under-rated running back in football." Shawn's moved past being under-rated. That stopped a little while ago (although the All-Defensive Team snubs are inexcusable).

I'm one of his biggest defenders and his biggest fans, but WTF? I'll have to work several lifetimes to make what he makes in a year but I still shell out a significant portion of my funds to go watch him dunk over Nowitzki's head. Everyone in town loves what he does on the court and he's the highest paid player on the team.

And, you know, STAT's looking even smarter. When asked if the trade rumors bothered him, he said, "No. That means the other teams want me." He said it was a compliment to be mentioned in the same sentence as KG (something to that effect).

I think STAT and Odom in the post, with Hill and Bell on the wings would be a great offense. The Suns may not get all the threes and all the dunks, but the Suns would have a strong offense and still be able to run.

And I'll tell you another thing: Odom has incredible heart. Having a couple of young kids and thinking about his situation is heart-breaking. On the one hand, goofy Matrix is laughing off missing a free throw and this guy is playing through a torn labrum and a torn life.

When its all done, though, it's going to be tough to move him before next week. If he doesn't move, he'll show up and do his thing, playing for his $20M next year. That could be a good thing; he plays better when he gins up the feeling that he's been slighted.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 26, 2007 10:11 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Odom

If Odom can get and stay healthy, then he would definitely be at the top of my list before any of the names I've heard mentioned so far (well, other than KG but that ship has sailed). I can't begin to describe how impressed I was with Odom during the playoffs. That guy was playing on one leg and one arm basically, with every reason in the world to just want it all to be over. And on top of that, he had Kobe going in front of the cameras after every game whining about how "beyond frustrated" he was with his teammates. I can't imagine a more difficult situation to play through, but Odom acted like he was playing on a team that had a realistic shot at a title. He won me over right then. But some of the reports about his injury being slow to heal aren't encouraging. Hopefully, he can get well and come here, because after the effort he put up last year, he deserves the chance to play for a winner.

by TexSUN on Sep 26, 2007 10:45 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

I also was impressed with Odom, good comments, let's hope we've dodged the AK talk, as a player he can be very exciting, but mentally, he's not someone we need. But, as you just said, Odom is a class act... and can play, would like to see Nash and Hill play with Odom..yes our speed is fast, but he only needs to play 20-25 minutes a game, not 35-40. And he has the experience and size to really help us out.

Let me look and see... Odom is getting .. $13 milion...

by jasonsuns1 on Sep 26, 2007 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

this bothers me also

quote from Marion
"I haven't done anything wrong. I leave it on the floor night in and night out," Marion said. "Sometimes it's just time to move on."

I haven't done anything wrong, it's like he feels he's being punished by being mentioned in trade talks. This is the root of the problem, not money, this. And this is a joke, wake up Marion, it's a business, it's not like your selling your children or something, it's a game, and its a business, and you've been thinking of it in another way.

Also, you hurt the Suns by killing the K.G. deal, so don't act all innocent, but, for $23 million, I'm beginning to be glad we didn't spend that much for K.G.

by jasonsuns1 on Sep 26, 2007 11:14 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Kirilenko!

Odom's great and all, but how can we not get Kirilenko if he's available. When that man is allowed to play the 4 spot and roam on defense, there's maybe 1 (Duncan) more dominant defensive player in the league. All those horrible nightmares of Tony Parker/Manu slashing in the lane will be over. Odom has a better shot from 3 pt. range and is a somewhat better rebounder (their stats are a little skewed since Odom played on a team of bad rebounders and Kirilenko on a team of good ones), but there is absolutely no comparison between the two defensively.

Odom, I guess, has more "heart" (though I'm not sure Clippers fans would agree), but Kirilenko's mental flaws shouldn't be an issue on the Suns. He's not a selfish player; he's just fragile. We've got enough character guys already though to keep him propped up. And moreover, Kirilenko will be allowed to do exactly what makes him most happy on the Suns (run and roam from the 4). And when he's happy, he's a dominant (without the ball, more importantly). You can't say that about Odom. He doesn't have that upside.

No question here: Talent over heart. Kirilenko's the man.

by rosewood on Sep 26, 2007 11:23 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Train Wreck

This is such a wreck, and I can't stay away from it or stop looking.

Problem with Utah is that Marion will threaten to opt-out there, too, like he did with Boston.

Part of me wants to see what AK can do in Phoenix. Bill Simmons agrees, for anyone who cares and wants to go over there and look. That guy has a really ugly offense, though.

If we can somehow dump Banks into the deal, I'd be good with that. Maybe they can cut that kind of a deal.

I'm not normally one to speculate like this, but it's killing me. For now, I'll just have to guess/hope that he shows up and plays this like a contract year.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 26, 2007 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bill Simmons article

Well, he almost has me convinced. Almost. OK, not really. But he did do a nice job of laying out his case. Here's the link in case anyone's interested. And I agree including Banks and getting back another useful player from Utah would make it a lot more palatable. BTW, that "you bonehead!!!" quote was one of my favorite Bill Simmons passages ever. I remember when he originally wrote that thinking I had the exact same opinion of Marion's comments as Simmons did. Bonehead indeed. Kind of like making a public trade request...

by TexSUN on Sep 26, 2007 2:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bias

I'm just so horribly biased on this trade. It's not even that I think "If we have to trade Marion, I'd most like to have Kirilenko." It's that I actually would rather have Kirilenko than Marion.

I don't think any one will agree with me on that (not even Bill Simmons apparently), but I've just had a huge man-crush on AK since '03 when he started throwing down 5x5s. That's just ridiculous, though not as ridiculous as his 5x6 two years ago (14 pts, 8 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, and 7 blocks). Who does that?

Only AK and Olajuwon, because it's only been done twice in NBA history.

Andrei! Andrei! Andrei!

Like I said, it's a man-crush.

by rosewood on Sep 26, 2007 2:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

blah

JJ wanted out, Marion wants out...what is it with these guys and not wanting to win??? Or do they think they can win 60 games anywhere? They don't care.

I can't help but feel that the loss of Marion is really going to hurt. In the playoffs I bought a copy of Slam with Marion, Nash, and STAT on the cover. When we lost to SA, I almost threw the mag away because I just knew that it would be outdated. The big 3 wouldn't play together again.

Then we traded KT and I felt we had one more shot with this nucleus. Nash's comment at the end of the season, about how each of his 3 years with the Suns felt like 3 different teams and that they didn't have a chance to build off of the team before, it felt like this would be an oppurtunity to keep the team intact and actually improve from mistakes in the past. I found that Slam mag the other day and actually framed it in a cheap 2 dollar frame. I guess I just jinxed it...

At this point I don't care even if it's AK 47. I'm talking myself into it. I just want Marion gone so the team has time to gel. But he's certainly not doing the Suns any favors by bringing this garbage up this late in the offseason.

Name one clutch shot Marion ever made. The biggest plays I can think of off the top of my head are when he got the rebound and passed to Tim Thomas, when he got the rebound and passed to Nash at the end of that reg season game against the Mavs, and...

He needed to win that Game 5 against the Spurs. He had 20 by halftime, then you couldn't find him. He had a chance to make a 3 at the end, but it was errant.

Then he nixed a trade for KG. That would have been the most clutch play of all.

downintx.com

by kidjay on Sep 26, 2007 11:32 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Bring on Odom!

I don't know ... I don't want to see him go. I also think if this is a contract year, we might get the best Matrix ever. The Suns dumped KT to have enough money to keep the Big 3 together and now he wants out? Very frustrating indeed.

Any trade needs to happen before camp opens, if it's going to happen.

Also, what's this about his issues with the "front office"? Apparently, he loves the teammates, the coaches, the city and the fans, but not the "front office." You mean the "front office" that gave you the fattest contract on the team?

Anyway, here'a link to Odom's stats:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=0617

When he's healthy, he's playing close to 40 minutes a game. We know he brings it in the playoffs, and perhaps the Suns training staff could help him out.

I'm warming up to the idea of Odom and STAT in the lane. Things could be a lot worse ...

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 26, 2007 11:52 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope our Front Office lays low for awhile

It'll give us "hand" -- i.e., more negotiating power.

If Kerr reacts right away, it would make our organization look desperate to get something/anything for Marion... thereby not getting a player they'd want -- who could contribute immediately -- in return.

Privately, they should talk to Matrix, but by no means should they publicly respond with any outrageous statements.

Just my take.

If Shawn wants out, let's see who or whom we can get for him.

Otherwise, he is still under contract.

"I am not a role model. A million guys can dunk a basketball in jail, should they be role models?" - Charles Barkley

by kcbrett5 on Sep 26, 2007 12:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

LA vs Utah vs Some Eastern Conf Team

Now that it looks like Marion is a goner for sure - and yes I was all in favor of trading him back at the end of the season - we are down to the "who do we get back" question.

I don't like either option of doing a deal w/ LA or Utah. In Utah though Marion combined w/ Boozer, D Will and Okur would make those guys a real contender. They were good last year and with Marion's athletic abilities would be a LOT better.

LA on the other hand w/ Marion instead of Odom would be about the same if not worse. They need an inside presense in the worst way and Marion doesn't bring that. On the flip side, as much as I love Odom, we need to get more then him in return.

So, I think the front office should be talking to teams in the East. Maybe in a three way deal, but at the end of the day Marion needs to be in Atlanta or Charolette and not in a WC rival.

We also need to be getting back a player that can fulfill a similar role which is mainly the ability to run and finish and defend positions from at least the 2 to the 4.

by Phoenix Stan on Sep 26, 2007 2:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Dump Banks

In the Utah v. LAL debate, I say we trade with whomever will pick up Banks. Neither Odom nor AK replaces Marion, but if we can package Marcus Clanks and pick up some expiring contracts it gives Sarver the cap room he needs for next year.

If they can't package a deal with Banks, I hope they'll keep him and I'm relatively sure we'll have a good season.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 26, 2007 3:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Banks in Utah

The funny thing is that Banks would probably be a great fit in Utah at the #2 PG. He plays D well and Sloan loves that and would be an upgrade over what they have now which is?? I don't even know. I guess that Brown kids that got his neck crunched in the GSW series...

So, AK47 + Milsap for Banks and Marion?

I guess I wouldn't jump off a bridge.

But still, Marion in Utah scares the crap out of me.

I think the best option is to look at 3 way deals that send Marion to LA and Odom and whatever somewhere else and get us back...well, that's still the big question but there's got to be some good options out there. Time to start up the trade machine and looking at options again.

by Phoenix Stan on Sep 26, 2007 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might jump of a bride

no matter what happens.

I think, though, that Matrix going to Utah is a lot more dangerous for the Suns than him playing in LA. Ball-hog Kobe or a good PG? Marion playing the 3 with other scorers and two big men vs. Luke Walton?

Plus, Odom's contract is less than AK's and expires in 2 years (AK's is 4). With's KT's absence, I'd kind of like to see Odom here, too.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 26, 2007 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

btw

I love the image of you jumping off a bride in despair.

by rosewood on Sep 26, 2007 3:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Marion in Utah

See I'm not scared of Marion in Utah at all.

He'll still produce but his production will go down because:

He'll have to play SF, where he's not as effective because he can't simply outrun his opponents (Remember he generally plays PF for Phoenix). It also exposes his weak ball handling and streaky shot.
Utah runs more than they used to, but they're still primarily a half-court team. That doesn't work for Shawn at all. The only things he does well in the half-court are rebound, defend, and sometimes an awkward floater through the lane.

I just don't really see him excelling in Utah. He won't be bad, by any means. He's too talented. But he won't be as effective. Kirilenko, on the other hand, would thrive in Phoenix.

by rosewood on Sep 26, 2007 3:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

But, Utah showed they can run

I would have agreed with you a year ago but after seeing Sloan be willing to let his team run against GSW I could see them using Marion to open up the game even more frequently in combo w/ D Will. It makes them a more balanced team. Assuming Sloan would go for that and I am thinking at this point he would.

by Phoenix Stan on Sep 26, 2007 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

They're going to open more. Sure. But they won't run as much as the Suns, b/c it's a Jerry Sloan team and his teams are pick and roll based, and Williams and Boozer are a great, great, combo for that. There's no way he gets too far away from that.

So sure, like I said, they run more than they used to, but not like the Suns and so Marion's production will suffer. Because I don't think he can score consistently as a 3 in a half-court offense. He doesn't have the game for it.

by rosewood on Sep 26, 2007 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could say that

about pretty much anywhere that Marion will go. That's the issue with him. I have thought for awhile now that he is actually overrated for this very reason...so unless he goes to GS his numbers are likely to go down. That combined with his advancing years which will slow him down once he crosses about 33/35 (a number which I recently crossed and boy did that make a difference!)

I guess my fear would be in Utah they would have both the ability to run their p/r in the half court and also an increased ability to run as well. Any championship team needs to be able to do both these days. Especially, in the West.

by Phoenix Stan on Sep 26, 2007 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's All About Chemistry

If Marion wants out, then the chemistry isn't there anymore. Maybe that was the problem in the playoffs. Maybe the one, missing piece to a near-brilliant team, is just waiting to be traded as I type. It wasn't KG...but someone else?

It could be exciting...though I admit that it's easier to say that from afar than it is to be in Phoenix right now being immersed in it.

Marion wants to leave. I wish him well and hope he regrets it by the end of the upcoming season.

by Sunny on Sep 26, 2007 3:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

AK is better than Odom

but in both cases we need more than that in return. The Jazz could add Brewer + Giricek and take Banks. The lakers don't have anything interesting, besides Bynum, who they won't trade.

Comparing AK to Odom:
-Both Injury Prones. Don't know which one is worse.

AK much better defender, better than Marion too.
Both good passers.
Odom better shooter and scorer overall, but AK playing in the 4 is a good scorer too.

So , in the end I think it's better to have AK, because we need more defense than offense and the Jazz has more pieces to add to the trade.

by Bruno on Sep 26, 2007 3:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

More Bride Jumping

I can't even spell anymore!

I'm going down to the Arena to get a custom-made Odom-Suns replica jersey outside the the Team Shop. I need something else, especially since right now I've only got a Burke hanging in my closet.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 26, 2007 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still wear my...

circa 2001 BK Kim #51 purple D-backs jersey. A clasic just like the Marion #31 will be in 10 years :)

and btw..I am not sure "bride" jumping was a typo or some other kind of slip

by Phoenix Stan on Sep 26, 2007 4:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another Aspect of a Trade With Utah

The biggest reason I want the trade with Utah is this.

Ronnie Brewer.

1.75 mil, easy to go along with AK for a Marion/Banks swap. Here's his scouting report from ESPN.com:

"Scouting report: Utah's recent drafts have churned out plenty of dubious players, but Brewer may be the exception. His athleticism is beyond question, and his ballhandling skills are also well above the norm for a 6-7 shooting guard.

The question mark is his shooting ability. Brewer had mediocre numbers from outside as a collegian and has a funky release as a result of a childhood injury. But scouts think he'll be a great defender, and his steals rate as a collegian backs that up. Plus, Brewer couldn't move into a better situation. Utah basically has an open spot at shooting guard, so if he shows any promise whatsoever he'll probably start."

hmmm...awkward release...athleticism...6'7''...

And oh, yeah, Utah doesn't want him so much because of the glory that is Deron Williams for them. Their backcourt is pretty much set. This would be a steal for us. Getting Brewer and AK essentially means we upgrade Marion's rebounding and shotblocking with AK, and ballhandling, hustle, defense, and potentially some scoring with Brewer.

And he's a second year guy with an expiring contract. Worst case scenario we pick him up with Giricek's 4mil expiring and we've got an extra 7 mil in cap room next year.

This trade works on both ESPN's trade machine and RealGM's trade checker.

by Ridiculous Matt on Sep 26, 2007 4:39 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Backcourt set?

The Jazz lost Derek Fisher in the offseason who was their starting shooting guard. So I don't think their backcourt is set.

So now they have to find a replacement btw Giricek, Brewer, and Morris Almond. I'd say Brewer is the favorite for that spot. At worst, he'll be platooning with Giricek.

by rosewood on Sep 26, 2007 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here's why I love Steve Nash and Raja Bell

Check out these quotes from our resident team ambassadors in this article on EVT.

"It's sad to hear he wants to go," Nash said after Wednesday's workout with his teammates on the Suns practice court. "We have a great team, we're very close to winning a championship and we want everyone on board. "All his teammates love him. Apparently he wants to be traded, but if he wants to come back, he's got a bunch of guys who want him to be part of this. We have one goal, and when we get together (Monday) that will be the focus - not what's happened or what's been said in the papers."

Bell said his conversation with Marion Tuesday had little to do with his trade request or the details of business. "I called him as a friend, trying to feel him out," Bell said. "The whole situation, that's between Shawn and his camp and the Suns, not a place for me to have my opinions. "It has to be frustrating when you hear your name in trade rumors year in and year out. But on the other side, it could be flattering that so many teams want you. If teams are willing to give up household names to get you, then obviously you're doing something right."

"We're people, we can figure it out," Nash said. "The biggest thing for me is I want Shawn to be happy. There are a bunch of people here waiting for him to come in and hoping we can incorporate him back into a healthy, happy state of mind."

I still think Marion will never play another game for the Suns (nor should he), but wow, what a great attitude by two guys who have been busting tail for weeks in the practice gym a day after Marion just threw all that effort under a bus.

D'Antoni has some nice words too:

No one enjoys this and you hate to get to this point," D'Antoni said. "But I think he'll be here and I think we'll all be ready to go. The summer is about business and players do get upset, but come Monday it's about basketball. "I know Shawn and he's a great guy. He may not be thrilled with everything but I don't expect there'll be any residue. He's a pro and with the team we have and with (free agent signee) Grant Hill coming in, our focus is a championship."

by TexSUN on Sep 26, 2007 5:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

The Tribune is the rant exception

I blame the media the most out of the three (the Suns and Matrix himself being the other two "sides" to this fiasco). Sennsationalism for readership at the expense of two parties who needed to keep from airing soiled laundry to the whole world - where ethics are concerned, the whole damn thing stinks to high heaven.

If Kerr and Co. & Matrix (along with the obviously obtuse majority of the fans in general - or maybe it's just me being more familiar with the media and its tactics) do the right thing by giving the proverbial finger to the media at large, they ought to be able to iron this crap out.

All I know is that this kind of bullshit never happened under the Colangelo reign - at the very least, despite obvious mistakes, they kept the media at large up on their damn perch instead of up everyone's ass with a microscope.

Now, to Matrix and the brass: Iron this crap out PDQ. Your teammates obviously want you back.....

Always remember to keep one foot in the groove

by SwingMan on Sep 26, 2007 9:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said

It's part of the USA Today effect.

But remember that during the Colangelo era we didn't have the proliferation of sports talk radio, online sporting news and sports blogging.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Sep 27, 2007 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Video from Raja

I think this was probably the inspiration behind some of those quotes in that EVT article. At least he says some of the same things.

http://www.azcentral.com/phpAPP/multimedia/flash.php?path=rtmp://azcentral.com/sports/0925rajabellwe b

by TexSUN on Sep 26, 2007 11:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Torn Up

I'm really torn up on this. As a fan I'm upset that Marion won't be with us on our quest to win the championship. And after defending his value to this team one feels short changed.
But from his shoes I understand his frustration. But he should know better. Rumors are nothing more than rumors, unreliable, unpredictable crap that rarely has any validity to it. As for the front office not talking about an extention, thats reasonable on the front office's part. They need to keep incentive for a player to keep his game up.
So for once this really is not the front office's fault, but that of a player who has looked at things at a slanted view. I'll still miss him, but its best that he go. This comment will only be a year long distraction. Its so sad that he had to go public with it.

If ya can't jump 'em out, then box 'em out!

by PurplePinoy on Sep 27, 2007 12:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs