Guess That Punishment
[Note by Phoenix Stan, 11/17/08 4:12 PM PST ]
And the winner is.....Flagrant 2 plus fine for not leaving the court fast enough and running of the Big Mouth.
Thank you for playing. You will get another chance soon.
With Shaq getting the boot for his Flagrant 2 foul, Stu Jackson and his NBA lawyer trolls will be reviewing the play. We should be hearing the ruling from on-high sometime today.
First, here's your chance to Guess that Punishment!
A dart board is probably the best approach to predicting what those chuckleheads will do but perhaps the wisdom of (our) crowd can Guess that Punishment.
First, review the evidence
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I'm sure it'll be something fair and reasonable.
Nine games, $20,000,000 fine.
by Azreous on Nov 17, 2008 11:14 AM MST 0 recs
Is it me?
or did it actually look like Stuckey’s head never hit the floor? It looks like he braced his fall with his arms but I’m not sure his head/chin ever actually hit the floor. His head shot up like it did but the more I watch, the more I question if it ever hit.
Am I crazy?
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 17, 2008 11:49 AM MST 0 recs
I thought it did
It seemed that his forehead hits and bounces pretty hard. Hard to see on YouTube but up close on my the HD TV….
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by Phoenix Stan on
Nov 17, 2008 11:56 AM MST
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I agree with you, it looked to me that his whiplash thing was feigned or something.
by RD74 on
Nov 17, 2008 3:39 PM MST
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Here's a thought
If that had been TJ Ford he would be dead. I mean literally dead.
That poor kid should watch this video and retire now.
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by Phoenix Stan on Nov 17, 2008 11:59 AM MST 0 recs
Ford
Yes, Ford would’ve been a goner for sure.
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on
Nov 17, 2008 12:08 PM MST
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Look at Shaq's history
Hopefully, the league will downgrade the call to a flagrant 1.
I watched Shaq play as a Laker for years. He is just not a dirty player. With his size, if
Shaq was intending to harm Stuckey, Stuckey would be in the hospital.
by bizmhamama on Nov 17, 2008 12:30 PM MST 0 recs
I'm fine with a Flagrant II here.
Regardless of the physics and the intentions, you have to protect the player in the air. All I need be reminded of is Jerry Stackhouse and Joe Johnson.
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 17, 2008 1:34 PM MST 0 recs
Which was not a Flagrant II
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by Phoenix Stan on
Nov 17, 2008 2:04 PM MST
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But should have been
I don’t even care about the specifics. So what JJ held onto the rim. So what Shaq was going for ball.
Hit someone in midair at full speed, risk them injury then F2, baby.
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on
Nov 17, 2008 4:46 PM MST
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you got your wish + fine
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by Phoenix Stan on
Nov 17, 2008 5:12 PM MST
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I watched it in slow motion six times
You must be crazy if you think that was a flagrant two. Stuckey fell to the floor body first, and his body took the impact before his CHIN touched the floor. He feigned some monstrous whiplash there, and jerked his head up and down like he was bouncing on flubber. And critically, he landed on his CHIN but rolled around on the floor clutching his FOREHEAD. And he rolls around pretending to be hurt when it was merely a hard foul. It would not have even been enough to get him winded for more than half a minute, I assure you. They’re tougher than that even in the WNBA.
And yes, Zonaflash, midair at full speed should be flagrant two. I rip on Shaq’s elbow-fu and occasional travel every now and then but there is simply too much evidence proving that it is NOT a flagrant two. There was no body collision whatsoever, Shaq got the ball and the arm and pulled. The usual prerequisite in defining flagrant is body contact/collision. And more critically, as you said, hitting someone in mid-air constitutes a flagrant 2; Stuckey was nowhere near mid-air. He was only in mid-stride. He was just going into his one-two and considering the distance from the ground, that does not come anywhere close to qualifying as a mid-air collision. Ever. If you make this sort of pussy swipe a Flagrant Two, you will need to establish Flagrant Three, Four, and Five for the REAL flagrant fouls.
Obviously you’re dramatising Shaq’s attack on Stuckey. Come playoff time, there’ll be many incidents of Flagrant 3s and 4s, with malicious intent, tons more physical impact, in mid-air/full momentum, with lots of potential danger and damage in terms of injury, and they will be classified as Flagrant 1s, with the coaches and players defending themselves talking about “I didn’t wanna hurt nobody” and how it was an “honest basketball play”, as opposed to this weak foul being needlessly blown out of proportion and scandalised.
In fact, if maybe a guy the size of Diaw committed a similar foul no one would even imagine that this could ever amount to anything more than a personal foul. Shaq himself has been victimised by much more brutality from opposing teams then he could possibly dish out. You always get away with much more in beating up on big men and it’s probably the small-guy vs hulking-giant bias that deluded and misled the referees in making such a monumental error in categorising the foul.
by felixthm on
Nov 19, 2008 3:14 AM MST
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Exactly
This is really the key
In fact, if maybe a guy the size of Diaw committed a similar foul no one would even imagine that this could ever amount to anything more than a personal foul.
and that was Shaq’s point in giving us a physics lesson. I think. Or maybe he just wanted to talk about physics. You never know with that guy. Anyway….
I consider a Flagrant 2 going after someone’s head. Or undercutting them with no play on the ball like Stackhouse did to Joe Johnson.
Shaq went for the ball and had chance at the ball. Stuckey held the ball and fell. There was no body contact at all. No F2.
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by Phoenix Stan on
Nov 19, 2008 9:17 AM MST
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Ah I'm so dense I didn't even address the main point of this post
Who cares if its F2 or not?
The point is that it’s so stinking arbitrary that no one can agree on it. This is the poverty of Stern’s dictatorship.
Save the NBA! Down with the dictator!
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on
Nov 20, 2008 1:19 AM MST
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