A New Nash
For lack of a better word, we've all seen a change in Nash's play. It's not that he isn't playing well or losing a step per se, it's just....changed.
Let me preface this blog by saying he is, by far, my favorite player of all time. It's rare to see someone so good, giving back to the community and being so selfless - something I personally respect more so than his actual play.
But I do admit we've seen a sharp change in Nash's play, so I set out to see why.
We haven't seen Nash distribute the rock on the fastbreak like we are accustomed to seeing. We haven't seen as many jaw-dropping passes and marveled at his vision as much as we used to. In fact, he's had only one game this year of 10+ assists. Being a Nash apologist, I wanted to see statistical evidence of who to blame and when this truly started happening.
My original hypothesis was that his change in play could be identified from the point we acquired Shaq (February 6, 2008). So, I compared Nash's numbers pre-Shaq and post-Shaq.
What I found surprised even me.
Let's start by looking at Nash's numbers before the Shaq trade (November 2007 - January 2008):
17. 3 points per game, 11.8 assists per game, 3.5 turnovers per game
Then, Nash's numbers after the trade (February 2008 - April 2008):
15.7 points per game, 10.3 assists per game, 3.6 turnovers per game
Sure, there was a small decline in scoring and 1 less assist averaged per game but there is no significant evidence that Shaq affected those numbers. More than likely, it was due to fatigue and playing the third highest minutes total of his career.
This surprised me. I expected to see a noticeable (but not necessarily drastic) decline in Nash's stats from the point we acquired Shaq. Obviously surprised that I didn't find this, my next step was to look at this year's stats to date. This is where I found the sharp decline.
Nash's numbers to date for the 2008-2009 season thus far:
13.7 points per game, 7.5 assists per game, 3.27 turnovers per game
At the same point last season, Nash was averaging close to 6 more points per game and over 3 more assists per game. However, last year, his stats didn't noticeably fluctuate throughout the year. Did Nash really get "worse" in only a few months in the same year? In April 2008, Nash had a spectacular month averaging 11 points, 10 assists, 5 rebounds, his turnovers were down from previous months, and he never missed a free throw. This was only 7 months ago. Did he age that much from the end of last season to this season?
Unlikely.
These stats lead me to conclude that new coach Terry Porter and the new style of play, not Shaquille O'Neal, has had the biggest influence on the decline of Nash's stats thus far. This isn't necessarily unexpected, but I didn't think it would be as noticeable as early in the season.
This also got me thinking of how much I miss the old Nash. Sure, our team is built to make a long run in the playoffs. We have more depth, a better defense, and more scorers. But, selfishly, how much more fun was it to watch Nash create instead of dumping it into the post to Shaq?
I do recognize that a change probably needed to be made for us to advance in the playoffs. However, the type of change is (and was) debatable. Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with any of the personnel moves, it's just a weird feeling not to see Nash as relied upon - but it's probably a good thing.
Seeing D'Antoni's Knicks put up 19 made three pointers and 132 points this year certainly didn't help my nostalgia.
I also recognize it's early in the year and there are a ton of things that can change. I have written previously that we need to give Nash more credit as a point guard that he can adapt to new systems and still be effective, which he is.
What I didn't realize (or want to accept) is that by doing so, he is selflessly sacrificing for the "betterment" of the team. He never has, and never will, complain about a diminished role or his points/assists totals going down. All he wants is some clarification so he knows how to best lead this team.
And I'm confident that his leadership trumps any decline from a statistical point of view.
But, as evidenced by the video below, I sure miss seeing the ball in his hands and waiting for him to create.
*Statistical source: ESPN.com
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44 comments
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Comments
Nice
Sort of stark and a bit sad to see it in the numbers. I also feel a bit wistful about the “old Steve” even though I know HE wouldn’t care that his stats are down as long as it makes the team better in the end and gives the Suns a better shot at winning the championship.
Time will tell.
by SueB on Nov 18, 2008 11:11 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Great Point
It’s very sad. But, at the same time, I think it’s something that needed to happen. We are beginning to see a transition, sort of like KJ went through.
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 18, 2008 11:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong
If the team is better and more consistent with the New Nash and has a better chance at playoff success, that’s fine. But it’s clear that an era ended. Especially interesting to see that it appears to be more related to D’Antoni’s departure than Shaq’s arrival (although one was probably inevitable after the other).
by SueB on Nov 18, 2008 12:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
numbers
one team wins, one team loses. stats mean squat
by cornvillian on Nov 18, 2008 1:10 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I think they should allow ties
the kids on my soccer team always feel better if we tie instead of lose…..
Of course they feel even better when win which we have been doing a lot of! Go Mad Cows!
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 18, 2008 1:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Not losing
It’s just the person/team that doesn’t win. Of course, the father whose son does not win has to mow the other father’s lawn in his wife’s Sunday Best.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Nov 18, 2008 8:34 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
kinky.
where’s the father whose son wins when the father whose son does not win is mowing the lawn of the father whose son wins and wearing the clothes of the wife of the father of the son that does not win and what is she wearing?
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 8:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Homer
It was one of the best Simpsons episodes ever. Don’t make this blog any dirtier than it needs to be … off to do some more research.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Nov 18, 2008 8:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no tv. =( I live on the power of my own imagination. =)
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 8:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
What a game.
Haven’t seen those highlights in a while – thanks for posting!
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 18, 2008 3:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Great post Ben, and welcome! Looking forward to more of your work.
by nash-n-burn on Nov 18, 2008 3:53 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
This goes back to your post about balance.
I loved Nash’s gaudy numbers but we were a one man show. Remember our terrible record without Nash? We’re trying to move away from that.
The Sacto game we barely won against an awful team shows we still have a ways to go.
However, Nash’s assists are down while Shaq’s and Amar’e’s are up. No harm there since each play can only earn 1 assist.
Points are down across the board because pace is down. Nash also ought to be a slow starter on the season, so I think everything is alright.
I agree, however, that the suns are more exciting when Nash creates than when we drop it into the post for championship basketball. It’s a shitty tradeoff and it’s the fault of the league for making us make this tradeoff. There’s a lot of win-at-all-costs people out there. San Antonio is a city full of them.
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 4:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Ok but
I wonder if you put Nash back with Amare, Marion, Bell and someone else like James Jones or heck even Grant Hill could this team still run like they did in the good old days?
I don’t think Nash can attack the rim like he used to and that threat was an important part of his game.
I don’t think he can run at that pace for 35 mpg anymore.
And I don’t think he can do it for 82 games and then in the playoffs
This change was as much about Nash’s aging as anything else.
Heck, the Suns last year were slowing down and not relying on Nash to create even before the Shaq trade and he was still toasted come play off time.
If the Suns can’t win with 1/2 Nash in the 1/2 court then they can’t win.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 18, 2008 5:07 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
No way, how quickly you forget!
Nash, if traded, hasn’t lost a step on his circus shots. And he has even more circus shots prepped for the days when he slows down.
All the slow down is due to the change in style. It’s coaching, not fatigue.
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 5:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I will give you that the spacing has radically changed. Watching this extended clip from 2006 it’s the first thing I noticed.
Still, Nash was ineffective in the playoff’s last year and that was before Porter. Even what Fat Ass is on the bench he’s still not driving.
How many looks at the rim have you seen him take? He used to drive baseline and be threat to reverse it in. No longer.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 18, 2008 7:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nash was injured in April-May of 2008
He couldn’t shoot at all. Ben’s numbers show it: 11 points per game! His numbers are actually UP this year.
It was injury, not decline.
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 7:54 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok - stick with that
I think this new system is the best chance Nash has of being able to be “Nashty” come spring time. The team needs to be less reliant on him so at key moments he’s got the gas to turn it on.
He’s said as much.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 18, 2008 7:58 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed with that.
But I’m not convinced this team has the ability/skill to play both ways. I think that’s what Nash is complaining about.
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 8:11 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's complaining
I think Raja is complaining. I think Nash is observing that they aren’t doing it yet and need to work on it. I agree w/ that. I don’t agree that they can’t do it.
I think when Tucker and LB come back Raja’s going to find himself spending more time next to Amundsun and that might help him focus on getting with the program and less time worrying about how many three’s he can jack up.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 18, 2008 8:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
semantics!
complaining, stating, observing, discoursing, suggesting, arguing, whatever. Now you’re articulating, stating, observing, highlighting, nitpicking!
Agreed, but even if Raja wasn’t pouting, complaining, stewing, fuming, he’d lose minutes to LB and Tucker. Those guys need to get some time on the deck.
=)
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 8:47 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
could not agree more on the style of play's effect
The pace going down and the loss of those extra possessions and gimmes is no surprise for the drop in stats. Nash is also playing less minutes, and that is less time to put up better numbers. From what I’ve seen…Barnie takes a lot of shots, which adds to the problem. Stoudemire also has to get his, even more than before. I don’t think Nash ever beat anyone with his quickness, but rather with good footwork, the best ball-handling, and excellent body positioning. I think Shaqs fat ass cloggin the lane instead of Marion sitting out at the three point line deters Nash from putting it on the floor. Steve’s fine, I miss 7SOL.
"Hes very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
by Snowbird on Nov 18, 2008 5:23 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
here here, Snowbird. I couldn't have said it better, and I really tried too! =)
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 5:31 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Snowbird
Yes, what ZonaFlash said.
And are you based in Vt, by chance? I seem to remember you mentioning that once.
by SueB on Nov 18, 2008 6:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
was in VT....but now in providence....im sick of the celtics
"Hes very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie
by Snowbird on Nov 19, 2008 12:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Post was picked up on Yahoo's BDL today. Nice job, Ben!
Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.
by ZonaFlash on Nov 18, 2008 5:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
The Best Way to Win a Battle is to Not Fight It
… or something like that. Sun Tzu and all
Having Nash on the perimeter waiting for the kick out from Shaq and/or Amare also helps avoid the double-teams. He’s still a threat out there. It’s hard to quantify, but I wonder how much that is helping the Suns’ offense.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Nov 18, 2008 8:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
This is a great discussion
Not to sound too politically correct, but I think it you all have great points.
1. Yes, age and a new system are probably the greatest influence on the decline of Nash’s numbers.
2. I miss watching the old Nash. HOWEVER, the sensible side of me (and Stan) says that it really didn’t get us anywhere. Maybe it’s good that his numbers are low right now and they will peak in the playoffs? That’s, ultimately, where the decline has been in recent years so I am all for a slow start and big finish.
3. How awesome will it be when we truly find a comfort in our offense? Think about this, we could literally be unstoppable in multiple ways rather than just the typical “Nash-Does-Everything Way”. When our offense becomes second nature, Shaq, Amare, Nash, LB, Boris, Barnes, Hill, (as much as it pains me the way he’s been acting…even Bell) could light it up on any given night based on what the defense gives us.
4. I was feeling nostalgic earlier. Man, that season without Amare was really something special from Nash. Unreal.
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 18, 2008 9:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
05-06
Was special all the way around. My wife was pregnant with our second during the playoff run. If the Suns won it all and we had a boy, we would’ve had a Boris. For the girl, Natasha (like the cartoon).
Bell had the great year and my attendance at Game 5 of the clippers series sealed the deal on buying tickets — which is why I feel slightly bad about dissing him now. Only slightly, I’m still a lawyer.
Live in the now, man!
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Nov 18, 2008 9:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets not jump to any conclusions about the decline of Nash
Until atleast mid season. His chronic back issues, and adjustment to the new system under the new coach will lead to a slite decline in numbers. Hell get his.
WOW WHAT A SEASON!
by SouthsideCUBSfan on Nov 18, 2008 9:45 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
couldn't the explanation be that he's playing fewer minutes per game?
Seems like such a good point, i don’t really need to add anything here.
by beatcal on Nov 18, 2008 10:24 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Except that he's really not
Only averaging about a minute and a half less a game so far.
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 19, 2008 8:43 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
All it comes down to is the significant drop in possessions per game for the team. That alone will cause a point guard’s numbers to drop. Now factor in the new approach of working the ball down into the post, which has turned both Shaq and Amare into distributors, and you have even more of a cause for Nash’s statistical decline.
Really the most interesting observation here would be to check his statistics per possession, and compare that to prior years. I have a feeling they really wouldn’t be any different.
by underxthebridge on Nov 19, 2008 8:55 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You said it much better than I
And by the drop in possessions and slower pace of play, Nash’s decline is a bi-product.
I hate to use the word decline but it’s only from a statistical point of view and really, was to be expected from the paradigm shift in play.
He brings so much more to the team and my point was that we’ve seen a “new Nash” we aren’t used to seeing. Sad or not, like Stan said, I think it will be more beneficial in the long run by not relying on him to win games on his own.
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 19, 2008 9:07 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
I was actually going to write a similar post to my reply above last night, but as I was finishing it I realized I was just agreeing with basically everything you said and just wording it differently haha.
I do think it would be interesting to bring his statistics down to a per possession level though, and see how it compares to recent years.
by underxthebridge on Nov 19, 2008 9:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Quality of Stats
Even though the quantity of Nash’s stats is down, the quality of play is still there. In each of those averages is still a person who drives to the lane, shoots the clutch threes, steps in for the charge (his best and only defensive contribution), and overall manage the game. It is, like others have said, we don’t need his play so much, but it is still there when it is needed.
Hasta la victoria siempre- Ernesto "Che" Guevara
by PurplePinoy on Nov 19, 2008 4:15 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Agree
I would agree with that. It’s a “new Nash”. I do see improvements in his 1 on 1 defense and weak-side defense.
I’m not too concerned. I think once the team figures it out, we won’t be having this discussion.
It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.
by Suns Ben on Nov 19, 2008 8:45 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
nostalgia
I was listening to a Mavs game against the Knicks the other day, and Nate Robinson made a nifty pass to David Lee on the pick-and-roll for the slam. Chuck Cooperstein, the Mavs’ announcer, remarked, “we’ve seen that play from D’Antoni for years with Nash and Stoudemire”.
It made me sad.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Nov 19, 2008 6:07 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Oh man...
That was a low blow, I remember when I wrote this. I guess Mike is aswering some of my questions. I can’t believe he is making it work over there.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on Nov 19, 2008 6:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
sadness
Not only do I wish for the days, but I was shocked that D’A has been able to get it to work with so-so offensive players such ass Robinson and Lee. Is there some reason why we can’t keep that play in the playbook? That’s what I don’t understand. I mean, just a half dozen times a game to keep the offense interesting?
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Nov 20, 2008 8:44 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff-bound
I’ve been saying the Knicks are playoff-bound for months now.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Nov 19, 2008 8:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh, those were the days...
Great (if somewhat depressing) post.
Cool attached YouTube vid as well (couldn’t help but notice most-if-not-all the assists were to The Matrix…).
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
by yeahblah on Nov 20, 2008 2:34 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

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