Los Angeles Lakers @ Phoenix GameThread, Nov 20, 2008 8:30 PM MST

Open Gameday Thread - The Lakers are coming!

by Phoenix Stan on Nov 20, 2008 12:48 PM MST Comment 112 comments

Los Angeles Lakers @ Phoenix

Phoenix Suns	vs.	LA Lakers
8-4		8-1
8:30PM Mountain / 10:30 PM Eastern
TV: TNT HD
Probable starters:
Steve Nash	PG	Derek Fisher
Raja Bell	SG	Kobe Bean
Matt Barnes	SF	Vlade Radmanovic
Amare Stoudemire	PF	Pau Gasol
Shaq	C	Andy Bynum

Official Suns Game Notes

Hide your children and undersized point guards! Run for the Ahwatukee foothills! The Lakers are coming! The Lakers are coming!

Suns fans, let's face it. The LA Lakers are unbeatable. Rings are on order. They are the best team ever. They won't lose more then 1 game this year and this won't be one of them.

Hang it up. It's over.

Don't believe me? Just ask anyone at ESPN. Or anyone in SoCal. Or anyone with a microphone that speaks about NBA basketball.

I know this to be true as sure as I can see Mexico from my house.

Let's move on.

What I don't understand is how Lakers fans (or Lakers bloggers) are surprised that we all don't love them and their team? I sense a bit of shock in LaLa Land that we aren't celebrating Vujacic and Farmar. That we aren't lining up with them to lick Andrew Bynum's sweaty ass.

They just don't seem understand the depth of the hatred out here in "Real America" for the Los Angeles Lakers. This might be Flyover Country to those Hollywood elites but we worship an awesome God and his name is NOT KOBE BRYANT!

I realize that most Lakers fans only moved to LA in the past decade and just joined the bandwagon around the time Seinfeld ended but some of us have memories that go back before Friends and the Simpsons. We remember. Our hatred for LA was formed by the flames of disappointment and earned at the hands of a Magician. Is it ok to mention flames and LA at the same time?

Can I get a witness up in here?

Vince Marotta over at Fanster breaks down that Laker hate by the numbers..

For those poor slobs who think this game is even worth playing here's what needs to happen for the Suns to win not get blown out.

Assuming Vlade Radmanovic doesn't snowboard down the jet way and take out Kobe and Ariza then it would not suck so much if Amare D's up on Gasol. This is Sun Tzu's biggest test yet and he has to deliver. Amare must win this battle for this game to be close. Period. Goggles. No goggles. Mohawk or bib. Amare must dominate the high ground and attack with fire. Never will those who wage war tire of deception.
Unless Bynum's knee cap decides to go to Tucson, Shaq is going to have to abuse him in the paint and draw some early fouls on the Wunderkind. Leave the Twitter at home big fella and bring your drop stepping, hook shoting, spin moving, rebound gobbling fat ass to play.
If Fisher doesn't leave the team to... (too much?) then we have to hope he's cold and that his cold spreads to Sasha and Jordan when they are exchanging spit in the huddle. Remember Suns fans when we laughed at Sasha and Jordan and Smush? Those were the days. Of course you can always laugh at Smush. He's even back in LA!
This. Cannot. Happen. Again.
Is Lamar Odom still on that team? Did the Zen Master send him on a spiritual retreat and 30 day cleanse? No? Crap. In that case Le Boris is going to have to use his sizable French Ass to keep Lamar off the glass and out of the paint and his quick French feet to prevent Odom penatration (which is like anal penatration but more painful to watch. Not that there's anything wrong with that)
And finally Mr. Mamba. We know that even if your entire team comes down with food poisoning after a night of Cheesecake Factory debauchery that you will come to play. Suns fans, Raja Bell must come to play too. No more bitching about the system. No more whining about the good ole days. Raja Bell must bring it (and hold Kobe to under 40)

Forget the Jazz and the Grizz and all the other zzz's out there. This is why we watch sports. Games like this when they come around get you up off the couch and into the recliner. If you are not geeked about this game then you are not the kind of geek that should be reading this blog. Bring it on baby!

Poll

I hate the Lakers and so do you...

Yes! I am America and so can you!

100 votes

No. I am not a Laker fan but I DON'T hate them. I am insane.

19 votes

I am a Laker fan and I like to suck Chef's sweaty chocolate balls

32 votes

151 votes | Poll has closed

2 recs | Comment 112 comments

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Comments

Flyover Country - LMFAO

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 19, 2008 8:29 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

True hate inspires

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Nov 19, 2008 8:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Lukin Fakers

Yup, cant say I like ’em one bit. Hate the Spurs just a bit more because that hate is raw, but the Lakers are a definate close second. Very very very close second.

"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness

by Turambar on Nov 19, 2008 10:33 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

how many rivals do we have?

i’d say the lakers are a viable one, as well as the mavs and the spurs. maybe the rockets now?

and, i don’t know why, but i’ve always disliked the rockets (even pre-brawl). same with the heat. even when they’re good, i still just can’t stand ’em.

by iamtrevorpaxton on Nov 19, 2008 11:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

My Laker hate runs deep

It should be fun to see how well we match up with them. We need to win the Shaq/Bynum and Amar’e/Gasol match ups, Raja has to make Kobe want to take 30+ shots, and our bench needs to show up big time.

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 1:32 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

I don’t even mind if Kobe puts up 40, as long as it takes 30-35 shots to do it. If that happens, I like our chances.

by Azreous on Nov 20, 2008 1:52 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Shaq/Bynum

Have they played against each other since Bynum “dunked” on Shaq? I wouldn’t be surprised if Shaq gives Bydumb an elbow or two tonight.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 9:01 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Chef's chocolate balls

I have to say I get huge pleasure in the fact that 12 Lakers fans have signed up for the sweaty chocolate balls.

Sophomoric? Yes. Still tickles my fancy though

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Nov 20, 2008 12:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Ha ha! They'd do anything for those lakers!

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 1:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Huge game

Worried as hell over what Suns team will show up tonight. Should be a good game either way, I’m just not sure if our still forming team will be able to make it all work tonight.

God how i dispise the Lakers, especially their fan base.

"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness

by Turambar on Nov 20, 2008 12:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Play hard

I still have the first home game against the Lakers last year in my mind. We got stomped.

I do think the Suns will play well tonight with the extra rest but I am not sure if our bench is ready to match there’s. Especially w.o LB to change the pace and potentially to get hot. He’s played well against the Lakers in the past. At least during the reg season.

I think to beat LA we need all our guns firing and being short handed might not give us enough….

As long as its a good game and we fight hard then I will be fine w/ the outcome. We know we aren’t better then LA right now even if we do beat them tonight.

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Nov 20, 2008 1:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, huge game it's not

people are too busy tweeting and worrying about PR today.

We’ll probably get blown out today.

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 1:56 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

No blowout pls

Last thing I want is to wake up tommorrow with everyone calling in or writing how doomed the Suns are. I grow tired of all our fans being so quick to panic.

"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness

by Turambar on Nov 20, 2008 2:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

You go ahead and mention those flames!

The fires are out, and anyway, whenever the flames rise all the radio stations play “The Hills of Los Angeles are Burning” by Bad Religion. Laker fan is all in a tizzy here, here’s hoping we can send them home sad. Local radio is brutal today, the hosts who were surgically attached to the Big Cactus’s ass-tus while he was a Laker have all turned and are talking trash.

And yes, the Laker hatred runs deep. I’m happy to watch the Spurs struggling, but this is nothing compared to the glee I was feeling when the Lakers were tanking a couple of years ago.

by SoCalSun on Nov 20, 2008 2:44 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I loved seeing Jack Nicholson at a Clippers Playoff Game!

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 3:39 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Energy

Hate to constantly post this but it will all come down to effort & energy tonight. As D’Antoni said, “The ball finds energy”. I can’t wait for Shaq to control Bynum. You know Shaq’s gotta be pumped for tonight.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 4:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

That phrase is banned here.

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 4:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Its true though

No matter anyone’s feelings about D’Antoni

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 5:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you, but that way is the old way.

The new way is “the ball finds it’s way to Shaq where it will sit until he does something with it, unless Matt Barnes touches it first, in which case it will be jacked up for a 3”.

That is the current regime.

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 5:26 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

I tend to go with the philosophy, “The guys on the court should make sure the ball finds the guys shooting 60%.”

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Nov 20, 2008 8:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Good point, my friend.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 5:55 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Can't wait!

I’m scared…. I’ll admit it! I just want the Suns that beat Detroit to show up today. If the Lakers still win like that, I’ll tip my hat to them….. NOT!

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 7:53 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Me too

I was going to say the same thing that I want to see the team that beat Detroit but add not the team that lost to Utah.

by TwinnerA on Nov 20, 2008 8:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't Bell read my posts?

Spot up 3 = good
Pull-up jumper = bad

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:00 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Drive to the basket = bench

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 9:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs

haha =)

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

does anybody hear why dragic is not playing tonight?

Performance? Injury? Irrational desire for sucktastic defense and lack of player development?

At least he's better than Esteban Yan.

by jacksonian on Nov 20, 2008 9:11 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

All of the above.

I’m glad TP is willing to put the best player on the floor.

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

did*

At least he's better than Esteban Yan.

by jacksonian on Nov 20, 2008 9:14 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

wait, singletary>dragic?

when did this happen?

At least he's better than Esteban Yan.

by jacksonian on Nov 20, 2008 9:15 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

today I guess, but I like it.

Singletary was the better defender on CP3 in the hornets game.

Made some good decisions thus far too.

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:23 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

When will the Suns learn how to close quarters?

by cah05 on Nov 20, 2008 9:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

12-0 run at this point..

by cah05 on Nov 20, 2008 9:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

12-0 run by LA

since Nash went out.

by TwinnerA on Nov 20, 2008 9:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Steve Nash

We kind of need that guy on the floor…

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:17 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Machine no foul! Machine shoot three!

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 9:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

what's the status of Tucker? will we see him any time soon?

by cah05 on Nov 20, 2008 9:18 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

he's still recovering. hasn't practiced with the team yet.

maybe a few weeks?

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Supposed to be a month since his artho...so he should be back beginning of December

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 9:22 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Singletary

Wonder what the Goran-Hater-Blogger will say…I’m sure he’ll find some reason to say that despite 3 turnovers and 1 assist and 0-2 in 5 minutes is better than Goran.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 9:22 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

singletary 4 3!

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Boris is Abusing

They need to give him more touches

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:30 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

TP has been able to get back the 05-06 Boris back.

Makes me made at Mike D’Antoni

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:32 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm anticipating

A Full French tonight

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Boris playing better than Shaq and Stat. What a sad play with Amare taking a dive on the deck in protest

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:40 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Need more pick n' roll to break up the defense

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 9:40 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Memo to Matt Barnes...

STOP SHOOTING THREES!

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:45 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Porter has got to go witht the hot hand

play Boris man..

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:47 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

every1 else shooting craptastically

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 9:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Defense

Got to step up the rotation.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 9:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone agree with what Charles said?

’Cause I do..

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 9:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

What did he say?

I needed the break and knew it wouldn’t be good anyway.

by TwinnerA on Nov 20, 2008 10:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

hes always contrary

speed up and he’ll say, “If ya gonna go fast, why
d you get Shaq??”

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:00 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

nash is shanking every shot. he's so off

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:15 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Suns offense

Has only one Name… SHAQ… everyone else is sucking big time. WHERE IS BORIS?

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Boris up next and not soon enough

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

No Kidding

I was all for working it through Shaq a little more but not every freaking time.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

and that is the million dollar question…is it just me or does porter tends to bench players once they get hot?… so irritating

I'm just like you, only ten times better.

by noonoo on Nov 20, 2008 10:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Pau

Why would Bell double on Pau when Shaq is guarding him leaving Radmonovic open? Ugh.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Vlad

When Bell’s off Kobe, why is he leaving Vlad alone at the arc?

And don’t tell me that he needs to help Shaq double down on Gasol. It happened the whole first half, too.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:17 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

no kidding.

we suck at defending the 3

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Great minds...

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:18 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

have cone-shaped heads? =)

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:20 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah Nash, I was Barnes were Marion too

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 10:20 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

*wish

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 10:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

keep attacking Nash

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:22 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

bell playing some great d tonight

multiple plays

by be-the-ball on Nov 20, 2008 10:24 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Nice dunk STAT, thanks for the 5 point swing.

by hcblankscreen on Nov 20, 2008 10:24 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

To be Fair..

The dude is not getting any calls man…

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no way

stat didn’t bring it tonight, radman did

pack it in,. move to the exits. time to get out of the arena before the parking lot gets blocked up

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:25 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

the lakers defense is very good - ours isn't -

but we have some great moments, on shooting, it’s like the suns aren’t in the same league (3 point shooting) as the lakers, tough to watch the lakers beat us at a game we used to be great at

by be-the-ball on Nov 20, 2008 10:26 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Porter

Where is ~~Waldo~~ Boris!!!????

L-O-R-D

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I agree

at least we know he’ll pass out if he gets it down low and isn’t scoring.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:29 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

if stat had

the unstopable post moves shaq has, amare would be the best player in the league.

This is painful to watch….down by 8…a few seconds later…14

by be-the-ball on Nov 20, 2008 10:28 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Porter and adjustments

Let’s see what he does

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:31 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

nash is off…. very, very off tonight

I'm just like you, only ten times better.

by noonoo on Nov 20, 2008 10:32 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Rad has been the wildcard tonight

Shooting lights out… and the dude was struggling with his shot all season.
United Airways Arena “where coming out of your slumps happens”

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:37 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

cruel but true, many scrubs have looked like allstars here.

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:38 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

hill cant hit either

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:39 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

So much for that game

Painful to watch…

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:40 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Our offense is anemic.

And our defense is nonexistent.

I’m not feeling the Porter hire at all.

by rsavaj on Nov 20, 2008 10:41 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

AmundSun and Lopez nailed to the bench tonight.

by TwinnerA on Nov 20, 2008 10:43 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

time for STAT to PAD his STATS

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:45 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

too many californians have moved to PHX. you guys are an LA suburb

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:46 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I don't feel that Porter

Knows how to use the players…

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 10:48 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly, you said it better than I

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:49 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Starting to agree with Nash...

We need to have an offense like we had last year with Shaq but play better defense. The way everyone is unsure and tentative doesn’t fit with this team.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

b l o w o u t

Window Closed? Shit, just break it then.

by ZonaFlash on Nov 20, 2008 10:50 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I just don't see this working

When we beat Detroit the tempo was faster, this isn’t going to work. We can still run with Shaq, like we did last year and play better defense.

Wasn’t impressed with Porter’s adjustments…no subs for energy or help on D.

Man I’d like to punch Vujacic in the eye.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 10:53 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

How did D'Antoni get it to work?

He went 15-5 with this same roster over the last 20 games…what’s different?

by rsavaj on Nov 20, 2008 11:06 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

The difference was that

Shaq was a role player. He’d run plays for Shaq but not that often.

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 11:13 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Panama Sun said it earlier.

Shaq wasn’t the focal point. I’m for him having a little bigger role than last year but this year it’s all ran through him when he’s in the game.

It's Ba-Nash. It's a no brainer.

by Suns Ben on Nov 20, 2008 11:13 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly!

Shaq was brought here to rebound and Defend players like Duncan and Bynum. Score maybe 8-10 points a game. Run plays for him when we needed to slow down the game. That’s what D’Antoni did.
Porter is trying to run most of the offense thru Shaq. That’s a mistake.
And guys…I don’t think Boris is in the good side of Porter…

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Nov 20, 2008 11:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

outcoached...

we got outcoached tonight, plain and simple. the triangle was executed flawlessly with wide open cutters and people under the basket all night. as is custom for phil jackson teams, he puts you away in the 3rd quarter. somehow, we missed Barnie wide open the basket who knows how many times. Phil let us go through Shaq all night long knowing we couldn’t beat them with that. nobody came to play tonight except steve and shaq imo. we didn’t bother even trying the zone tonight. this offense is standing around ( when you don’t move without the ball and force passes, turnovers happen). this was putrid, do we really have to worry about offensive production now with this team of all teams. im upset and frustrated. in other questions, has terrence even once tried sliding barnes to the 4 spot and bring leandro/grant to play small ball like we used to? why are we being so stubborn about running for crying out loud. disgusted!

"Hes very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie

by Snowbird on Nov 20, 2008 11:22 PM MST reply actions 0 recs