Hornets beat Suns: 132 - 130 2OT
by Phoenix Stan on Feb 6, 2008 11:11 PM MST
in Game Coverage
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How great was this game! No really, how great was it? I have no idea.
I watched every minute of what was probably one of the most entertaining games of the year despite the loss and I enjoyed none of it. I felt like I was watching the Bucks play the Knicks for all the emotional investment I had in this one.
I wish I could talk about all the great parts of this game from LB's clutch 3's, Hill's D and hussle, Amare's 4 blocks, CP3's MVP performance with 8 amazing steals!, Nash's 10 turnovers 12 assists, the Full French followed by the disappearing Frenchman followed by the Benched French. But no.
All I can think about is Shaq's fat ass. Everything I have hated about this guy for 15 years from the traveling and non-calls to the crappy free throws to the goofy nick-names to the bad movies and wanna-be cop badge. I have never liked anything about this guy and now he's in purple and orange. How in the world does he help us defend against the likes of the Hornets and Jazz? Maybe against Houston but against Portland?
Player of the Game:
Shawn Marion. Did you have any doubt? We will miss you Shawn. Even if you had to go its still a huge hole after all these years. Couldn't the Suns arrange for a nice send off at this game after all he's done for us? Now that would have been classy. But no, he will be erased from all Suns everything as if he never existed. Its like watching the Soviets deal with a change in leadership. One day the guy's picture is everywhere and he's a hero and the next its like he never existed. Shawn Marion? Who? I expected better from Tom Chambers and Eddie Johnson.
Runner up:
Suns PR spin for managing to convince (most)everyone that this was a good move in less then 24 hours. The mood around town went from shock and disbelief to acceptance to excitment in the span of one sunrise/sunset.
The Coach that was sure we could win with the team we had and the owner who said we would stand pat got a whiff of the Diesel fumes and all of sudden we can't win without of 325lbs of washed up dead weight. How do you trust these guys again? If the Suns players could put on the full court press as well as the Suns spin machine this team would be undefeated.
WAKE UP SHEEP! Our team now owns a $40 million broken down shack!
Oh yeah, is anyone happier about this deal then DJ Strawberry? Nice game rook.
Update [2008-2-7 9:16:2 by srp]:
A few thoughts in response to some of the comments
- I have never been a huge Marion fan and often wrote that he was overrated and clearly should not be the highest paid player on the team based on his abilities and that he was NUTS to think he was going to a) get the deal he was asking for and b) be any kind of regular option in the offense and c) killed us by not agreeing to go to Boston. I get that he had to go
- but that doesn't change the fact that this guy has been here a LONG time and did a lot for this team. He really represented what this team was about for a long time with the skills and effort he did bring. Suddenly you wake up and he's gone? Isn't there an adjustment period to get used to the idea?
- then there's Shaq. Its not just all the other stuff about him I don't like. Or his huge contract that ties our hands for two more years. Or the GIANT sized risk that he won't be able to play at all. Mostly its that he's a step back to the 90's style of play. The Suns are at their best not just running the break but moving the ball and cutting. The Suns half court game this year was MUCH improved as I have been saying for month's now. Shaq is a non-mobile force that catches the ball and either knocks someone over or passes out of a double and waits for the ball again. That style of basketball is so yesterday and everything this team isn't. This is a huge change in what the Suns are all about
- there's a reason the entire basketball world is shocked by this deal. Because it doesn't make sense on so many levels. And a few press conferences and happy talk doesn't change anything
- I have said since the off season that the Suns needed a legit 7ft center to let Amare play PF and give the team flexibility (like Dallas) to play big and bang sometimes but then also to go smaller. I was upset at the Tucker pick instead of trying for a quy like Kyrylo Fesenko or even Marc Gasol. Nazr Mohammed was available this year? Heck, even DJ Mbenga was available for free!But the team seemed to reject the idea of a big guy and didn't play the one's they've had (KT and Skinner both) because they were too slow on offense. So then they go and get a 36 y/o Shaq? It stinks of desparation combined w/ the standard Phx inferiority complex that leads to an idolization of stars. Think Penny
- Oh yeah, I don't buy at all the this team couldn't win. People say they couldn't get over the hump the past 3 years. In year 1 remember this? Not to mention that it was year 1 and the team wasn't deep enough. Then in year 2 there was no Amare and we still almost won and we lost Raja w/ the calf injury. And last year all anyone anywhere was saying was that we got jobbed by Stern and Horry about would have won if not for the suspensions. Sure, the West is even better this year but so were the Suns. They certainly could have competed and then if you don't make it you can trade Marion or if he opts out you have all that cap space to re-tool for a run next year. Would that have been so bad? The Suns had as good a chance as anyone in the West. It would all come down to seedings, match-ups and injuries. There's never a sure thing (just ask the Patriots). All you can hope for is a solid opportunity and we certainly had that against any team out there. Do you really think the Spurs and Mavs are a lock? Or that the Hornets and Jazz fans are convinced they will win? Or the Lakers? Ok, the Lakers fans and media always think they will win but that doesn't make it true.
- and one more thing. The Grizzlies gave up Gasol for cap space. How is Marion not even more attractive to a team in rebuild mode that can either get a decent player for a year and then have a ton of space for the buyer's market of free agents in 09 or if he does opt out after this year then you get that space even sooner and can make a run at the numerous big names that are going to be available. With the $8m trade exception the Suns still have they could have got back draft picks and young players and a mid-level guy from any number of teams like Indy, Charlotte, Bucks, Sonics, Hawks, etc. I don't have time to my job and Kerr's but he needed to work a little harder on this one and not just get sucked into the mystique of the Shaq that was and saddle this team w/ a huge contract for two more years.
- I hope I am wrong about all this and Shaq is re-born and the Suns spirits are lifted and we win or even almost win the ring and that Shaq is able to be somewhat productive for two more years...
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I'm Very Confused
Yeah, it's kind of like that. What do you say? Deep down, you both knew that the high school sweethearts would never make it, but you didn't want to admit it.
The Suns have passed on that sweetie for the Cougar with a nice bankrolll (I foreshadowed this when I wondered about Cindy Crawford doing Room Store commercials).
I, too, expected better from EJ and Chambers. EJ has consistently told us that Marion puts out 110% every night. Chambers preaches "hard defense" but never played any. I'm shocked that a guy who never grabbed a defensive rebound in five years could talk so much smack.
On Chambers, I'm convinced he's just looking forward to Shaq's parties. That's it, nothing else.
Last year, Bluntman and I stopped at the restroom just inside of the Bud Light Paseo. TC was urinating and doing the "beer piss" thing (you know, leaning back and groaning) right before the game. He was on his cell phone, talking to some hussie (I dont' know that, but he was talking to someone) saying that he would meet her/him at Majerle's after he did his "post-gmae thing."
I'm not convinced it is a good move; however, I am excited that it is a move and I'm going to ride this roller coaster.
Bluntman was at the game tonight (a couple of days ago, he swindled me out of these tickets) and said that Shaq got 2 (two) standing ovations. He felt the energy in the gym. He said this was the most exciting game since Game 5 of the Clippers series that he and I attended. I don't know about that, but I know I woke JSun2 up twice on those game-tying 3s.
by JSun on Feb 6, 2008 11:43 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I for one
by UASun on Feb 7, 2008 12:48 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
srp
on marion, he was a lot of fun to watch, he did more for the suns silently (defensively) than maybe any other sun player ever, but don't put this on the suns. It's really simple in my view, the suns actively tried to get better and trade marion (etc) for K.G., a move which would have put 3 great players together, but marion shot it down (thinking of no one but himself). Then Marion complained about not getting an offer for $20 million, seriously, he's not worth $20,000,000. A guy worth $20 million needs to be our best offensive weapon, he was our third.
I know you liked him, we all did, but I can't feel bad about losing a player that was a cancer to the team, I don't think Marion was a "cancer" to the team 2 yrs ago, or longer ago. But in the last 1-2 yrs, yes. Is he to blame, maybe not, maybe the suns simply chose Amare over Marion.
There is one thing I've heard tonight, regardless of my opinions on this, Marion (fact) was our go to guy for defensive, he always covered the other teams best player, and he did it better than anyone in the league (as far as versatility). I will watch Miami now just to see how he does.
If Marion could dribble and attack/create like Hill/Kobe/Lebron/etc, he'd be worth $20 million and would be looking at the mvp every season.
and your right, it's too bad marion didn't get a better send off, but it's a business, the guy is getting more money than most lottery winners, some how I just can't feel too sad or upset for a guy leaving when he's getting paid that type of money.
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 1:17 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Too Many Turnovers Down The Stretch...
This one hurts.
I went from punching my fist in the air three times on Leo's game-tying three in the 2nd overtime to screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" and landing on my knees after Peja canned that buzzer-beating trey over da outstretched arm of Amare. That's three losses to NO this season and the Hornets are now 4-0 in extra sessions this year and have won 13 out of their last 13 OT games.
Phoenix had that game... Matrix or not, da Suns still should've won.
by kcbrett5 on Feb 7, 2008 5:34 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
My bust, Peja's game-winner was a deuce.
by kcbrett5 on Feb 7, 2008 5:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Three things about this game
But here are three things I came away with:
- Chris Paul may be an MVP some day - Yes, I know, Marion would have guarded him most of the night. Grant Hill gave him some problems with his length. Paul actually caused more problems with his defense. I don't know how many of Nash's 10 turnovers were caused by CP3, but there were a lot. I'd say Steve played him to a standstill when you consider Chris was the Hornets first option except the turnovers, obviously. That's what makes Paul the complete player. Suns FO need to plan to make a good run at him when Nash's contract expires.
- Amare played great, but petered out in the end. I don't know if this is because he is not used to playing so many minutes or what, but it seemed like he was useless by the second OT. No negative on him, he had to get Shawn's rebounds, too. But this was an area we have to address, since Shaq in his best years routinely missed 10-12 games.
- Props to the Suns on the pressure packed 3s at the end. If they would have had a few seconds, I would not have been surprised if they won it with a final 3.
by Hawk42 on Feb 7, 2008 5:49 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Marion wouldn't of helped
Paul was just possessed last night, he was hitting shots NO ONE could stop. He was hitting 3's 3-4 feet away from the 3pt line.
Also, A LOT of Paul's points were off turnovers where he was on a fast break for an easy layup. How would Marion stop that????
Marion wouldn't have helped as much as you think.
by Coolbean04 on Feb 7, 2008 8:34 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Man..
Shawn had to go, he was not happy here and he was gonna go anyways! He will be missed indeed.
We don't have to be negative...it really doesn't help...I'm suffering from an overload of information about this deal... everybody is saying it's bad.. that we are done.. No chance for the Phoenix Suns, It's been Fun.. so long Suns.. WTF? as far as I'm concerned we don't need offensive power, he just needs to get his big a$$ in front of the basket and make people unconfortable. We don't need him Running and Gunnin, he just needs to grab the rebound and pass the ball...as long as he understands his role we will be fine...besides Amare will feel better in his forward position.
People are blowing this out of proportion, we needed a big buy.. well you got it... It doesn't mean that Phoenix gave up...It doesn't mean that we are not going to run & gun!
I don't like the guy... but if he can help us get that ring... that Steve and the other good guys deserve... I'm riding the roller coaster dude..
by PanamaSun on Feb 7, 2008 8:13 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you STOP
Why don't you mention some other great things since Marion left.
- Diaw played A LOT better and is showing signs of his old self. He was being aggressive and scoring. Late in the game he went back to his present self and started questioning his moves again. This was the first game though so you can't expect a complete transformation overnight.
- Strawberry is going to be the real deal, he's a solid defender and he can score. He can drive to the basket and he can hit the outside shot.
- Amare was a monster on the boards. If Amare and Marion were both playing, they would've combined for about 21 boards (12 Marion, 9 Amare) so Amare totaled that total.
ANOTHER NOTE: You gave 3 years to see if the Suns strategy would work. How about you give at least 1 game of the new system before talking crap about it.
At the Center poisition, 28 minutes of Shaq, 10 min. for Skinner, and 10 min. for Amare is SOLID while having Amare at the PF for most of the game.
by Coolbean04 on Feb 7, 2008 8:27 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Correction
I don't think the Suns could have matched that package. Marion's a little old for Memphis' rebuilding project and it's almost a guarantee that he would not opt out of his contract since the Free agent market will be so deep. So Memphis would be stuck with a player who plays the same position as their best player (Gay) and they would have chance at the delicious 08 crop of free agents.
Maybe if we had offered the Hawks pick, our 09 pick, Strawberry, and Marion they may have considered it, but outside of that, you have to acknowledge that the lakers had the right package at the right time.
by rosewood on Feb 7, 2008 10:00 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Just one thing about ur message
by Coolbean04 on Feb 7, 2008 10:28 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
by Phoenix Stan on Feb 7, 2008 10:39 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Their GM, Wallace, has been refreshingly straightforward about their thinking on this. Specifically, the rest of this season will be like a tryout, and then they're going to trade the one that doesn't seem to work in their new system.
I don't know if that's the best idea, but that is their idea.
by rosewood on Feb 7, 2008 10:35 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I'm all in--More Shaq kool-aid please!
Much as I hate the idea, Marion had indeed become...hmm "a cancer" is way too strong, but "a distraction" is not, and "a negative influence on the locker room" is certainly fair. As good as he is, and as great as it has been watching him fly up and down the purple palace the last 8 years, he was headed out and this seems like about as good a scenario for that as possible--no public drama, and when he comes back next year with the Heat he'll get a nice round of applause.
Unlike srp, I've always been a Shaq fan, even when he was riding roughshod on us during his Laker years (not so for Kobe, for whom my hatred flows as deep as the ocean and always has). I would have liked to seen the big fella in a Suns uni 3 years ago, but you know what? Sarver, Kerr, and D'antoni are going for broke, and I'm of the opinion that it's better to regret something you did, than something you didn't. Nash and Amare are reportedly giddy--I can get with that.
For those of you who are podcast inclined, EPSN's Marc Stein has a good breakdown with Chad Ford up today at their site:
http://espn-edge.andohs.net/0000A6/espnpod2/espnradio/dailydish/nbadish080207.mp3
by SoCalSun on Feb 7, 2008 2:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
SoCalSun
I hope your right about Marion getting a round of applause when he comes back to Phx for a game, he deserves that, at the very least,
by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 10:10 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
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