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Playing Ball: The Shaq Trade Aftermath

After having a good two days to stew and rant about the Shaq trade, I think I've finally figured out why this news hit me like a ton of bricks dropped on an already-aching head. It isn't that I wanted the Suns to stay small-ball forever, and it isn't that I was adamantly opposed to trading Shawn Marion either, even though he has long been my favorite Sun not named Steve Nash. As I said in the wee hours of Wednesday morning, the Suns have had the look of a team in need of a change for the better part of the season. In fact, when Robert Sarver said a few weeks ago that no  major moves were coming, I was even a little disappointed--for the first time in three seasons--because this time I really thought the team needed to make one. Still, I guess I was hoping that move would be for a young, athletic big guy who would allow Amare to move back to the four spot without changing the very nature of who the Suns are. But that was probably an unrealistic expectation to begin with. If that type of player was easy to come by, every team in the league would have one.

The other thing that bugs me about this trade is that for the first time in going on four years now, the Suns have a main rotation player that I truly do not care for in an "I've never met this person in real life, but the image he projects nauseates me" kind of way. Whether or not it's actually true, the media impression of Shaq has generally been of a guy who slacks off during the regular season, doesn't care about his conditioning, and doesn't really try until the playoffs. While the polite way to describe that is "pacing himself", another way to look at is that fans pay to watch regular season games too, and deserve to get their money's worth. The idea of having someone on my team who doesn't try his hardest until the months of May and June has never sat too well with me. But that's just my opinion.

Still, the Suns have Shaq on their team now, and it does little good to keep repeating over and over all the reasons I think it was a bad idea. In the words of TrueHoop's Henry Abbott:

"I feel like we're watching a craps game, and hearing long speeches about why the dice are going to come up seven or nine or whatever. Really? You know that? Isn't the truth that we don't know? Just roll the dice already. Play. That's all that matters."
OK, fine. Let's play.

Starting with last night's game, It seemed pretty clear to me from the players' demeanor that they are genuinely psyched about the trade. Either that, or they're extra-motivated by all of us saying it isn't going to work. There were times when I thought I was watching the Suns of two years ago--you know, short-handed, missing a key player, but fighting like tigers to make it work anyway. It didn't work in this case, but it sure was fun to watch. A week from now, I don't think the Suns lose that game. Last night, it appeared a few times they were expecting the Matrix to come out of nowhere to track down a loose ball or a rebound. Like the fans, they have probably become a little spoiled by that. But they'll adjust, and that adjustment should be worth at least the three points they needed to win. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to seeing more of D.J. Strawberry, who has the potential to be a Marion-lite if not more.

On to Shaq's press conference earlier today. I wish I could say I came away from it fully on board with the trade and excited about the team's future, but I'm not quite there yet. Give it time. Besides, according to Shaq himself, all of this skepticism is a good thing:

"I look forward to making people eat their words, I really do...When I'm upset, I'm known to do certain things like win championships."
One thing we're getting with Shaq that we maybe didn't have with the Matrix is a guy whose primary motivation is winning a championship. While I always loved what Shawn brought to the team, and felt like he really laid it all out there whenever he stepped on the floor, it did bother me when he was quoted from time to time in ways that made it sound like he cared more about personal accolades than team accomplishments. In Shaq's case, it still seems to be a personal agenda--his "legacy"--but at least he wants that legacy to involve growing his collection of rings:
"Imagine a man taking his son to the Hall of Fame...Who has the most rings in the NBA? He'll say 'Bill Russell has 11, Michael Jordan has six'. I always want to be in the same 'breath of a pattern' [ed. or "breathera pattern?"] as a Jordan...I'm very, very selfish when it comes to how I want my story written when I'm done playing."
I guess that's better than being motivated by a desire to be the greatest small forward ever, or to win some individual award at the end of the season.

It's easy to see why fans and the media like this guy. Whether proclaiming himself the "assistant vice chair and general manager", crediting prayer for the chance to win "number five and number six", or launching the "Amare Stoudemire Project",  he brought laughter to the room again and again, while managing to seem both a little egotistical and charming at the same time.

"Start selling the T-Shirts now. All the marketing people I'm giving you this one for free: The Sun will rise in Phoenix."
Like I said, I am not yet ready to jump on the Shaq bandwagon and drink the Diesel-flavored Koolaid. I am "very, very selfish" myself when it comes to letting players into my inner sanctum of fan-hood. Shaq will have to earn it like anyone else. But I'm done criticizing and spewing venom over this thing. For the sake of the other guys on the team, I truly hope it works out, even if it means eating crow over everything I've said the past 48 hours.

Enough whining.

Enough wondering what might have been, or could have been, or should have been.

Let's just play ball.

0 recs | Comment 35 comments

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Well Said
Like we agreed at the beginning of the season without KT, let's ride this thing out and try to enjoy this thing.

Pre-Order your purple Shaq jersey now!

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 7, 2008 8:32 PM MST   0 recs

LOL
I don't even own a Steve Nash jersey. Or a Marion jersey either. But anything can and does happen....

by TexSUN on Feb 7, 2008 8:37 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

on shaq jersey
you could probably use it as a king size comforter
or a car cover :-)

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 10:11 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Shaq
I'm happy. I'm sure the Suns player are too. We wouldn't win this year without something like this happening. So, why not?
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Feb 7, 2008 9:12 PM MST   0 recs

yep
I think fans that aren't closely following the suns look at our record and wonder why, but if they saw how we played against the top west teams this year, its clear we had to do something, maybe one more trade....sorry....go boris....

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 10:12 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Earlier this season
I said that we should trade Boris and his fat ass. But no one would take him. So this trade is also very nice. If Shaq can stay in shape. If not, we're screwed.

Also, who's taking that last spot? Alando?

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Feb 7, 2008 10:17 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

i don't think so
they had some shooter in mind, forget his name..

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 10:21 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

test
this is a test <html> <title> </title> <body> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ljU1bwtmeok&rel=1"></param><param value="transparent"></param></object> </body> </html>

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 10:23 PM MST   0 recs

just for me
to know I can put it up cleanly

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 10:27 PM MST   0 recs

Your Next Assignment
Since I really have no skills and only get by in life by ordering people around, I think I have an assignment for you:

Okay, Shaq is here to "Bring a Ring", right?  So, you know, Steve Kerr is kind of like Frodo (short, goofy and going a little bit bonkers) and Shaq is like Gandalf (old but still majestic and inspirational).  The music goes with the story.  Nash is the Elf and STAT is Aragon.  Bell is probably the crusty, mean old dwarf.

How about some sort of video montage with the ring, the fire, Shaq coming to town?  The valiant last stand of charging the gates to Mordor.  Once they break through, the eye (picture of Stern) collapses/implodes.

I don't know, something like that.

It would be cool, but I have no idea how this internet/computer stuff works.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 8, 2008 10:02 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

i could do that
might be a while before i can do it, but its a good idea

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 8, 2008 1:41 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

It'd be cool
Just a suggestion -- easy for me to say it and then do nothing.

But, it would be awesome.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 8, 2008 1:49 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

you gotta love nash
being straight forward like that, what a fun, intriguing few weeks we have ahead of ourselves thx for link

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 7, 2008 11:04 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

shaq
i like the trade.. the team well get pumped up for every game now and get new life and thats what they need to win a ring, no matter how mobile shaq will be (and he WILL get better than in miami, the suns trainers are awesome)

and when shaq has a goal he will get there. he promised the heat a ring and everybody laughed at him, but he proved the haters wrong.

i am exited what the future holds and for a look at the new suns who will still run and be fun! shaq and stat dunking together now, woah yeah!

by hgk on Feb 8, 2008 1:11 AM MST   0 recs

Thirteenth player
Looks like the Suns might be thinking outside the waiver wire for that 13th player they have to acquire:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0208sunsnb0208.html

Hmmm... We just lost our best defender. Sacramento would love to get rid of Ron Artest. Any takers?

(For the record, this idea gets a big NO from me. But since we're shooting for the two-year window here, and since it usually takes Artest that long to screw up a team, maybe it's worth it from that standpoint?)

by TexSUN on Feb 8, 2008 8:09 AM MST   0 recs

i'd do it
especially with what you said, it's clear we're going for it the next two years with little attention long term

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 8, 2008 8:51 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Good idea, actually
If he gets out of line, Shaq can pummel him into goo.

I'm thinking Artest might just be for one year (this one), though.  I don't know about the contract situation, but I'd be willing to bring him in for the stretch run.

It won't happen, though.

I'm thinking we've still got a shot at E.T. (Sam Cassell) as a back-up PG.  He wanted to go to Boston but then committed felony assualt on Rajon Rondo when Rondo was showing him up.  I don't know if that'll happen now.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 8, 2008 10:04 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

ET
If we bring him in, we'll have to give him a class on the 8 second rule.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 8, 2008 10:56 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Artest can opt out this summer
Or he doesn't opt out and have his deal expire in the summer of 09.
Bright Side of the Moon or Bright side of the Sun...take your pick

by pookeyguru on Feb 8, 2008 2:20 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

What I think you should know in fairness Tex is
Artest is a pain in the ass. Unless you have enough shots for him, Stoudemire and that other big guy they have lying around he's not a player you want. He's a strange dude on top of it (as anybody who saw the Sac-Utah game can attest). Furthermore unless Phoenix has a young big & cap room for the team in the offseason I don't see how a deal would work even theoretically. The problems as I see them in numerical order:
  1. There isn't any resources to do the deal
  2. There isnt enough balls to keep Shaq Amare & Ron-Ron involved
  3. Artest will annoy everyone to say the least
  4. He will have a repeat performance of the Jazz game.
My 2 peso's. I won't be hypocritical and say part of my response isn't because of a deal that I think works far better in Golden State. Either way good luck with the Shaq deal and the rest of the season.
Bright Side of the Moon or Bright side of the Sun...take your pick

by pookeyguru on Feb 8, 2008 2:17 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Yep
"Artest is a pain in the ass."

Which is precisely why I said "the idea gets a big NO from me". But I can also see the flip side of it. Artest seems to implode on himself after about a year or two. That's really all the time the Suns need him to stay sane anyway, since they've basically given themselves a two-year window here. I'm not in favor of the deal though. Just threw it out there, because much like I can hate a movie while understanding why others love it, I can see why some might like this idea since talent-wise Artest could make up for a lot of what Shawn did (on defense, especially).

by TexSUN on Feb 8, 2008 3:03 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Pacing himself
I don't know. I've never been bothered by Shaq pacing himself during the regular season. I mean, the guy is injury prone. He always has been, even when he was in his best shape. I mean, he hasn't played 80 games since his second season.

But what can you expect from him? He is the largest player in the history of the sport. There have been taller players. But no one comes even close to his size and carrying that weight, even when he's at his most trim (i.e. 310), puts a lot of stress on those legs, especially when those legs can (or at least could) move as fast as a lot of small forwards. Add to that, almost every team he played against for most of his career would just rotate centers in and out, so they could all foul him as much as possible (which,  to be fair, was the only way to guard him for awhile).  

That's quite a beating. So I don't think we should be that surprised that Shaq doesn't always suit up for the regular season. He gets hurt.

But when he's on the court, he always gives maximum effort. I mean, look at his production over his career. It's just silly.  

G

by rosewood on Feb 8, 2008 8:27 AM MST   0 recs

this is interesting
Link to check out shaq weight - height ideals

I entered 310 and 7'1 abd it said ideal weight for that size was 273, I wonder if he lost 30-40 pounds if that'd be good or bad, probably mostly good. Also, what was his weight in college and his first 2-3 years in the nba?


but then again

Personally, I think 285-290 would help him

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 8, 2008 8:57 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Yea that calculation
works if you're George Mureson.

by Coolbean04 on Feb 8, 2008 10:05 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

Be careful of
Those ideal weight calculators. They are are full of crap.  They don't make allowance for age or an athlete's body composition. I'm 6'2, and the BMI calculators say I should weigh 175.  I feel skinny now, and I'm 196.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Feb 8, 2008 11:01 AM MST to parent up   0 recs

I weigh 225 and am 6'3
Does this mean since I might be closest to shaq's weight here on this board, that I get to interview him first?

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 8, 2008 1:45 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Sure.
I doubt he'd want to talk to srp or me since we've just spent the better part of the last two days criticizing his arrival here.

by TexSUN on Feb 8, 2008 2:00 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

He's a naturally big person
Shaquille O'Neal was 6'6" 223 pounds when he was 12.

Just try to wrap your head around that.

He was 7'1" 286 when he went to LSU (17 years old). 7'1" 300 when he came into the NBA. He had NINE percent body fat and a thirty inch vertical. Like every other player, he's put on muscle that has made him larger, so his ideal playing weight is more than 300 now.

He's just a giant person. When he's weighing 350-360, he's overweight. When he's 310-325, he's in great shape.

You can't judge Shaq by the standards of other players. Asking why does he weigh 310 is like asking why does Yao Ming have to be 7'5". He just does. Shaq would require heroin to get down to 273.

His frame is larger than any one who has ever played basketball. So he's going to weigh more. And it's just strange to accuse him of being out of shape at 310-320 when even when he was a twenty year old rookie, he weighed 300.

I mean, look at guys like Jordan. He came in the league at about 195 and left with the Bulls the second time at about 215. That's a twenty pound gain, but no one would say he was out of shape.

There's no doubt that Shaq can get out of shape. He gets hurt a lot. But to say that he's out of shape because 310 or 320 seems like a lot is just not understanding the player you're talking about.

For Duncan, 310 would mean horribly out of shape. But Duncan is a lot smaller than Shaq, not in height but in frame.

G

by rosewood on Feb 8, 2008 9:25 AM MST   0 recs

good points
I wonder, I keep thinking of Dwight Howard and how he makes amare look small. I'll have to look at pictures and videos of shaq and howard again, I'm pretty sure howard has a bigger shoulder/arms. Howard seems like shaq, a goofy cool guy to be around alright, i just watched that goofy dancing video and shaq is bigger than howard, but howard is quickly getting stronger, would like to see now

by jasonsuns1 on Feb 8, 2008 1:56 PM MST to parent up   0 recs

Fresh off of Paul Coro's blog
A link to all of Shaq's quotes from yesterday's press conference:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0208shaqquotesonline0208.html

...looks like I may have misquoted him on the whole Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, six rings thing. I was having some trouble making out what he was saying on the video. Apparently, it was "breathera pattern" not "breath of a pattern". Guess I learned a new word yesterday (although I'm not finding much in the way of a definition on Google).

by TexSUN on Feb 8, 2008 11:17 AM MST   0 recs

So the consensus among fans is that
the Suns are now more likely to win the Western Conference, and say, even the NBA Title?

Here's some interesting analysis on tonight's game from http://pregame.com.

Seattle SuperSonics at Phoenix Suns (9 PM ET)

It's unknown when new addition Shaquille O'Neal will make his debut with Phoenix, but it likely won't come tonight or anytime soon since he is still nursing a hip injury. That means the Suns will still be playing a bit short-handed after losing Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to Miami. SLIGHT EDGE: SONICS

Seattle is 4-1 since losing 14 in a row and coming off an impressive 105-92 victory at Sacramento on Wednesday, which also snapped a 10-game road skid. The Sonics have lost the last 3 meetings with Phoenix but have gone 5-1 ATS in the last 6 games between the teams. EDGE: SONICS

Sonics are 8-2 ATS in the last 10 meetings in Phoenix.
Suns are 6-2 ATS in their last 8 games overall.
The UNDER is 20-8 in the last 28 meetings.

by JW Stringer on Feb 8, 2008 1:52 PM MST   0 recs

Great News!
The Diesel is already paying Dividends.  He told Doris to go home and put on a friggin' shirt!

http://www.thedirty.com/?p=10985

No more side fat!

Collectively, I wonder how much those two guys weigh.  600 pounds?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Feb 8, 2008 2:35 PM MST   0 recs

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