Devil's Advocate for Mark Cuban

by Snowbird on Mar 23, 2008 7:08 PM MDT

That Dirk injury today is pretty great for us suns fans right now. Granted, I'd prefer spanking them at full strength, but this late in the season and this tight a playoff race merits at least some joy from this outcome. Mark Cuban is in a tricky spot right now. His centerpiece is gone, and a recent argument with Coach Avery Johnson must have him reeling. I liked that he wore that shirt today that said Avery's team. In regards to why he wore that shirt.....Look most of us probably think he is an ahole, would hate to work for a boss like that, and would despise having someone trying to do your job from the bench by shouting plays and matchups. He wore that shirt today as a public apology, he knows hes wrong, but that intense passion for the game and the fact that its his money usually gets the best of him. All this aside, is what we hate most about this guy all stem from his desire to win. Maybe he is some basketball-junkie, good but not good enough type who happens to be a billionaire and bought a team to satisfy his shortcomings. If not, can we really blame him for wanting to win and being emotional about it. You can argue that if he wants to win he should let the coach do his job and let the players focus, but how can one stay mum about something they feel so passionately for? He doesn't sit there in a suit or in a box in the rafters, he is right behind his team wearing a different jersey or t-shirt to show off his colors every night. How helpless does he feel, especially when his team embodies meltdown? Charles Barkley said pre-Shaq that the toughest guy for the suns was the kicker ala Nash. Who do the Mavs have? At least we had a player that was the toughest guy on our team, the mavs have the owner.....or Jerry Jones to continue with the football analogy. Should we perhaps give Cuban a break just cause he wants to win and be part of his team other than paying the bills? Or do you still just think he is garbage for meddling?

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No one questions Mark Cuban's passion

Hi Snowbird!

As a fellow IU alum who has shared a department with moneyball statistical consultant to the Dallas Mavericks, Wayne Winston, I dig the money and the statistical wonkery Cuban has put into change the team from a laughingstock to a contender. Jeff Sagarin, as you may know, was a student of Wayne Winston.

However, his passion is a blessing, it's his stubbornness that is getting him into problems.

His best line about Nash was "Wow, I wished he played like an MVP for us!" If he left it at that and accepted that it looked like a bad transaction, then perhaps he wouldn't still be waging the psychological war he is with fans and the media.

But no.

He's fighting all sorts of referee battles, battles over his past decisions, and on and on. He's in complete denial.

He wants to win, but it appears he is not going about it the right way wearing the GM and coach hats.

Banning bloggers from his locker room is really absurd. That's how crazy its getting there.

Look, he's had a tough run with incredible highs and lows in the past 3-4 years. He will survive, but it doesn't look very fun right now.

They did find Brandon Bass, so not everything is bad.

The SUNS - NOW THE HOTTEST TEAM IN THE NBA!

by ZonaFlash on Mar 23, 2008 7:29 PM MDT reply actions

great assessment on cuban

I also find some really great things about him, most teams aren't so lucky to have someone with money that's passionate about making their team better. I read Cuban's blog about the Nash trade written during the trade, and felt pretty good about his thoughts. On his comment about wishing he played like that for him, that's classless, and stupid. Different systems and different coaches and temamates bring about different results. There's little question in my view that Nash wouldn't have gotten the 2 mvps staying with Dallas (it's possible I'm wrong) but I feel that Phoenix with Marion and Amare was just a great fit. Plus, most of the time during these last few years with Nash, this Suns team has been about character and fun. Yes, they've made some mistakes - sarver being stupid towards spurs coach yrs ago for not playing duncan and making the chicken motion, but, for the most part, it really is fun watching the fast paced style, and this team seems to have a lot of heart and fun. At least 2 yrs ago, and this yr, last yr was good, but they were missing what they had from the yr before.

The blog thing with Cuban is purely stupid.

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 23, 2008 8:42 PM MDT up reply actions

Nash under Avery Johnson...

...would have been a disaster. I am 100% convinced of that now, especially seeing how well that Jason Kidd trade has worked out so far. Nash might have even been traded as an "albatross contract" had he stayed with the Mavericks. I can't imagine a worse fit as a coach for Nash than Avery. He's like the anti-D'Antoni.

Of course, that's all assuming that Avery would have become the coach to begin with. I remembered reading somewhere that the Mavericks letting go of Nash was kind of like the final straw for Don Nelson. He went as far as saying that a "little part of him died" when Nash left the team.

by TexSUN on Mar 24, 2008 5:47 AM MDT up reply actions

Anti-D'Antoni?

Is that a pasta salad?

The SUNS - NOW THE HOTTEST TEAM IN THE NBA!

by ZonaFlash on Mar 24, 2008 5:59 AM MDT up reply actions

I think so

I had that for lunch yesterday, pretty good, loved the dressing

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 24, 2008 9:20 AM MDT up reply actions

Anti-D'Antoni

You can have it with a good red wine, or with a plate of mussels. Of course it all goes down with a pint of Guinness...

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions

Yeah it looks like Nash/Nelson

we're house-cleaned to bring in the Avery's Spurs-imitation era.

It was a good try. Still a good try. Too back they're back tracking now and messing things up all over the place.

The Little General still trying to be the PG...

Those players are going to tune him out eventually.

The SUNS - NOW THE HOTTEST TEAM IN THE NBA!

by ZonaFlash on Mar 24, 2008 6:08 AM MDT up reply actions

Avery Johnson - Mavs point guard

You hit it right on the head, Zona. Avery wants to be the point guard. He might be good coaching the triangle or something like that. I always thought the MVP of the Mavs last year was AJ, not Dirk.

Also, Cuban's stubbornness has caused this. He felt Nash was too old, so he let him go. He felt he needed to have someone to check Shaq, so he used the money he would have spent for Nash on Erick Dampier. He forced out Nelson over control issues. the guy will not admit he is wrong. Is this the kind of guy we should hold up as the model owner?

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 7:46 AM MDT up reply actions

Avery Johnson

AJ is just another chapter in the story of ready-made teams turned over to green assistants that give them nice glossy records they don't deserve. Paul Westphal wasn't a good coach, yet he was handed a championship contender when Cotton quit coaching. Ainge had the same pleasure, yet crashed and burned. Remember Brian Hill with Orlando? Lousy coach, great record, because he stumbled on Shaq and Penny. Successes to this formula include Jerry Sloan, who was handed a winner by Frank Layden and did pretty well. Ironically, Westphal could be Avery's successor. One guy who has proven his worth with this formula is Detroit's coach, flip saunders. He was given a ready made team, and has kept it going. I don't think Pistons fans are calling for Larry Brown anymore.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 7:40 AM MDT up reply actions

perhaps

the Jason Kidd trade was subconscious regret at trading away Nash and Steve's subsequent MVPage.

"Hes very cerebral when he plays out there"--Hubie

by Snowbird on Mar 23, 2008 9:18 PM MDT reply actions

Cuban

Nice points, but he's still garbage.

Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Mar 23, 2008 9:27 PM MDT reply actions

Garbage

Like he said

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 5:49 AM MDT up reply actions

Dirk's injury and thoughts on Cuban

I hate to see players go down to injury. If a team is going to win or lose, you like to see them do it at full strength. If you beat the Lakers without Kobe, did you really beat them?

Back on topic... I think Cuban overall is good for the game and his team. His well-founded arrogance/self-confidence (You'd be a little big for your britches, too, if you were a self-made billionaire sports owner who turned a loser into a winner.) gets the best of him from time to time, but his enthusiasm and respect for his team's fans make him worth the trouble he causes elsewhere.

I would go so far as to say that Robert Sarver is literally, a poor man's Mark Cuban. He's stealing Cuban's moves (sitting behind the bench, wearing team gear, making an ass of himself at games), but lacks a few zeroes on his balance sheet.

by Mike Lisboa on Mar 23, 2008 9:48 PM MDT reply actions

nice points but..

if Cuban respects his teams fans...why be against all bloggers, not all bloggers are bad, look at our site,

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 23, 2008 10:53 PM MDT up reply actions

Not all

He is not against all bloggers. He lets bloggers into the visiting locker room.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 7:47 AM MDT up reply actions

Yeah, but only b/c

I'd like the clap to visit the enemy team too. =)

The SUNS - NOW THE HOTTEST TEAM IN THE NBA!

by ZonaFlash on Mar 24, 2008 6:46 PM MDT up reply actions

Cuban vs Sarver

Yeah, but Sarver's a third or fourth class ass. Cuban is a first class ass.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 5:51 AM MDT up reply actions

Personally...

I like Cuban, I think he is a great owner. He may not go about things the right way at all times, but at least he has the best interests of the fans in mind. Which is more than what most owners can say. He may have a little George Steinbrenner in him, but he wants to win, and that's all that you could ever want from him, if your a player for the Mavs or a fan. No other person I know, has ever stepped up to David Stern and criticized him to the extent that he has. Not even the media challenges that corrupt tool. Now I do think that his antics with disputing the officiating has blacklisted him and his team to a certain extent. That's mainly why they lost in the Finals two years ago.

Nonetheless, I would trade Sarver for Cuban, because he has deeper pockets, and won't mind paying the luxury tax. Which means, that he would not have sold off all the draft picks the Suns have had, like Luol Deng & Rajon Rondo. And I'm damn sure everyone in the Seattle area wishes they had a guy like Cuban running their team, instead of a cheapo like Howard Schultz, who acts broke, when he has a coffee shop on nearly every block throughout the world charging $5 for a cup of coffee. Or even worse some redneck weasel who marries into a rich family, and uses his wife's fortune to bring the Sonics to his trailer park in Jokelahoma.

The NBA where a $120 million arena renovation in a trailer park, in the 45th largest market, with the lowest rated education in the country, is greater than a $300 renovation of a 12 year old arena in the 14th largest market, 40 years of history, and filled with the most millionaires and billionaires in the world...happens.

I guess I went off topic there, but the point is virtually team's fans and players would gladly trade for Mark Cuban, for whatever owner they have. Hopefully Major League Baseball will allow Mark Cuban to buy the Cubs. I think he will bring a lot of the attention and excitement to the Cubs, and MLB in general.

by Aluminum Foyle on Mar 23, 2008 9:48 PM MDT reply actions

nice thoughts also but

same as above, if Cuban respects fans (I'm sure many Mav fans are into blogging) then why block all bloggers? He's a control freak. But, on your point that you'd trade sarver for cuban, yeah...I probably would also. On your points on Miami, what was it 30+ free throws for Wade in 1 game, pretty silly. I don't buy into half or more of the stern against the suns stuff, but there's little question in my view that Stern stole the title from the Mavs in the series vs. Miami.

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 23, 2008 10:59 PM MDT up reply actions

Not Stern or refs fault

I saw the series. The Mavs choked. Also, the free throw disparity in game one didn't help the Heat. I saw the plays. the Mavs were grabbing and reaching at Wade. Sure, he initiated contact, and the refs gave it to him like Stockton or Jordan used to do, but if you are getting burned like that over and over, you try a different defense. Like getting in his way. You can't blame the refs. It is up to the players to adjust to how the game is called. In game three when the Mavs stagnated and could not score, was that the refs fault? How about Dirk averaging 14 points in the last four games of that series? Come on, Jason, you sound like a Mavs fan. There is a difference between having players suspended and influencing referee calls to throw a series. We're not talking about blatant plays like Amare getting tripped or Raja getting his nuts clamped. The wimpy Mavs never adjusted.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 8:00 AM MDT up reply actions

Hawk

ok, I will admit on this one, I could use a closer watch to really evaluate those last 4 games (Miami vs Dallas). It's hard to take that Miami won that year, I think our Suns team beat Miami by 20-30 points at the end of that season in a game, and would've likely won 4-0 or 4-1. The Joe Johnson and Kurt Thomas injuries just were enough to keep us out, that was a very tough year not to get to the finals.

Nothing in this Verse can stop us!

by jasonsuns1 on Mar 24, 2008 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions

No trade for Cuban

Not me

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Mar 24, 2008 5:52 AM MDT up reply actions

How about Lakers Golden State tied at 99!

With 3.35 to go in the 4th!!!

Go Warriors!

The SUNS - NOW THE HOTTEST TEAM IN THE NBA!

by ZonaFlash on Mar 23, 2008 9:54 PM MDT reply actions

Bum

Warriors let the Lakers back into this one - it shouldn't have been this close! But a good result with LA losing! Captain Jack answered Kobe's two 3-pointers with 2 of his own to keep the Lakers at bay.

Subscribe to Run N Gun Podcast here www.thesportsstuff.com

by dang on Mar 24, 2008 1:41 AM MDT up reply actions