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Congrats to the Lakers

Congratulations Lakers for winning the Western Conference (by a HUGE margin)...you played through adversity (Kobe) and injury (too many to list) and have once again achieved your (NBA) destined place on top of the world conference.

Hope to meet beat you soon in the playoffs. Your arrogance will make your defeat so much tastier.

Oh, and please remember that you have to play some sort of defense against Denver so you don't choke in the first round.

Update [2008-4-16 13:39:31 by Phoenix Stan]:

and as Hawk42 points out in the comments, if you should happen to meet the Mavs instead of the Nugs be sure to not underestimate how motivated that team will be to Beat LA and beware of The Dampier, do whatever vodoo you need to do so Lamar plays well, cover the JET at the 3pt line...oh, who am I Kidding...just have fun and try not to injury any more of your players.

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when you guys got shaq
you guys became as arrogant as us just by adding him alone. Were gonna get shaq upset but there won't be a playoff win over the lakers this time.
Besides your getting either jazz or spurs, just make sure you don't choke cause If I had to miss out on this series cause someone in the spurs tricks your players out of the playoffs it just wouldn't be the same kind of WC victory without taking a shot at you guys.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 9:26 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lakers
Screw them. :)
Walk on, walk on With hope in your heart And you'll never walk alone You'll never walk alone

by Nobs on Apr 16, 2008 9:57 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lakers stink
No congratulations from me
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Apr 16, 2008 10:00 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Spurs-Mavs-Lakers
I hope we get the sixth seed. Stomp the spurs in the first round, kill the mavs in the second round after they beat the bugs, and humiliate the lakers in the wcf. It's big boy time....

by DaPHXisin on Apr 16, 2008 10:08 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We Own the Lakers in the playoffs
Can't wait to knock them off, just as we have been doing in the last few years.

by PanamaSun on Apr 16, 2008 10:17 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i know
 i know its hard as a suns fan to deal with all of the disappointment i also know how hard it is for you to make new excuses every year about why you guys came up short so here's a number all you suns fans can call to talk about your problems 1(800)lakerswin 1(800)lakerswin operators are stading by .. also due to a high call volume your call might take awhile to be answered (especially when the suns lose to the spurs again)but please stay on the line we would hate too lose another suns fan...

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 10:27 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAHAHAHA. What?
A Laker fan trying to be funny.  Now THAT's funny.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Apr 16, 2008 10:45 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

was that phone number disconnect for a few years?
I love how we barely hear a word from Lakers fans for 3 years and now they are all out of their caves again. If we did hear anything from them it was about how much the Suns winning games in the regular season doesn't mean anything, it's about how you do in the playoffs. So Lakers fans (who for some reason get their kicks posting comments on a Suns blog), why don't you wait to talk, because trust us Suns fans, winning the regular season doesn't mean too much when it's all said and done

by Stymo on Apr 16, 2008 10:52 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kobe
Let's just hope he waits until after his team has won a series to pop his jersey this time around.  

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 10:33 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

RealTangibleGuy
Kobe's team has won many series, including three Finals.

by Pliny the Younger on Apr 16, 2008 10:54 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shaq
Won many playoff series, Kobe alone ain't done shit.

by MichiganSunsFan on Apr 16, 2008 11:09 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

niether has shaq
shaq hasnt done shit alone as well... when shaq won with miami he had 11 other poeple on his team so  no shaq hasnt won anything alone...

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 11:25 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kobe
My insult had nothing to do with how many playoff series Kobe has won and lost.  I was just referring to a specific game in the 2006 finals where he popped his jersey about 4783247893247932 times, brushed his shoulder off about 7458438942 times, and then choked away the series on a 3-1 lead.  Good job, Kobe.  As far as Shaq goes:

Would you agree that Kobe is better than D-Wade?  I'm assuming yes seeing as to how you are defending Kobe.

You remember the Pistons beating the Lakers with Kobe and a 2004 Shaq?

You remember the Heat beating the Pistons team with the same core with the 2006 Shaq and D-Wade?

Do you remember the Hall of Fame Starting Five on the Lakers?

Do you remember the Hall of Shame starting five on the Heat including such excellent players as Jason Williams and Udonis Haslem?

Would you agree that Wade led a lesser team with a lesser Shaq to the championship?

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 11:35 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kobe 2
Maybe the next time he's part of a dynasty he'll wait until after its over to rape someone and then attempt to attempt to drag the best player on the dynasty teams into the mess.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 11:36 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A pox on the Lakers
The Germans have a word: schadenfreude, which basically means taking pleasure in the misery of others.

The Lakers total humilation at the hands of the Suns this postseason will be a moment so full of sweetness and morbid delicity (I know..) for us, it will be hard not to consider that the victory we want.  

However, we should not be satisfied until we win the title.  Only then, as they choke on their bitter tears, will the Lakers realize that this season of hope for them was nothing but a misty eyed illusion presaging what will be a long off-season of misery, shame and a sense that their so-called best player just isn't good enough, however much help he has.

Then we take a good deep breath, and laugh our asses off.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 11:15 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mmmm
I love the smell of hate in the morning...

Playoff time!

BSoS - where Alando happens

by Phoenix Stan on Apr 16, 2008 11:24 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is nothing..
I have friends who are Glasgow Celtics supporters.  My loathing for the Lakers is merely mild annoyance in comparison to their deep, fundamental and life affirming hatred for all things Glasgow Rangers.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 11:33 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a new
participant in the blogosphere here, i have to say that I'm very surprized by this "smell of hate", as you name it. Not very surprized, as I know some soccer fan who could explain me at lenghth how they dispise one other team. But quite impressed by the number of LA fans who came suddenly on this site and laugh at the suns ! I quit my office 3 hours ago with 3 comments here, i turn my PC on and there's more than 90 comments! wow! It seems that lakers fan were very very depressed the last few years and are exploding today. But as stymo said, winning the regular season doesn't mean too much when it's all said and done! The harder they will fall if they don't win it all, especially if it's in the Sun's hands.
GO SUNS
where full french happens on the defensive side (but it doesn't show in the stat, sorry)

by warmup on Apr 16, 2008 2:25 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In our defense
Well we're a bit more excited because we don't have Smush, or Kwame.  I guess I could throw in Brian Cook too.

I'm pretty sure if you watched your team lose a few years in a row because Smush thought he was a real nba player, or Kwame dropping passes, you'd be pretty happy this year.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 2:48 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question for Lakers Fans
I have a hypothetical question.  Suppose Kobe Bean Bryant wins the NBA MVP award.  Suppose the Lakers face the Dallas Mavericks in the first round.  Suppose the Lakers lose.  You fill find that none of these statements is outrageous and all are plausible.

So, if that happens, will you treat Kobe the same way you have treated Dirk this year?  Will his MVP award laughed off and will he become the butt of all jokes?  Many times in ESPN forums this year, you hear comments like "Dirk won the MVP and he choked the first round!!  How can Kobe not get MVP when a choker like Dirk gets it??"  If my situation happens, will you go back and post "Kobe won the MVP and he choked the first round!! How can (blank) not get the MVP when a choker like Kobe gets it??"

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 11:24 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Phoenix Stan
Remember, the Faker's opponent isn't set yet. Since the choking Mavs lost to Seattle, they have to scramble to get the match they want.  They think they can beat the Hornets. To geet that matchup, Dallas must beat New Orleans to avoid playing the Kobes.  Of course that assumes that the punk Nuggets beat the Grizz.  Denver has the riebreaker over Dallas.
'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Apr 16, 2008 11:29 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is why I was hoping this post
Wouldn't be made until we met in the playoffs, for all we know either one of us could bow out in the first round, I wanted to save the trash talking for when we actually met. Oh well let the arguing begin.

If kobe lost in the first round we wouldn't trash him cause no one would get trashed getting kicked out of the west. Dallas-denver are 50 wins teams. you guys are gonna be sixth do you think your gonna "upset" anyone. no cause your on par or better then the people you face and every west team believes that.

Five posts of just insults so no point on commenting on that. Windowclosed we still haven't done anything either so lets be quiet until we get some playoff series under out belt.

My last point is this. No one actually believes Dirk is an mvp. He was just the best player on the team that had the most wins. Its how the mvp goes now a days. Kobe actually is an mvp caliber player (not taking anything away from nash, he was a mvp caliber player too, so is cp3 for that matter, I still don't see amare but maybe cause I want to see his defense up a little more but hes improved from last year so another improvement like that and maybe I'll turn)

I think I got everything I wanted in that. Laker fan out.

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 11:35 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

smart and cautious answer
much more constructive than some of your fellow Lakers fan here and elsewhere!
where full french happens on the defensive side (but it doesn't show in the stat, sorry)

by warmup on Apr 16, 2008 2:34 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is why
I try to represent my side of the fans as a whole. and to respond to your other comment if you look further down we start to realize how big we made this thing explode. ("if the season ended today" post took so long to build up and we did it in a hour and a half or something like that).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 2:39 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what????
1 are you suggesting that lakers fans and no one else have been calling dirk a choker???i think the whole nba was calling dirk a choker.. but for the record dirk deserved the mvp award last year no matter what happened in the playoffs... the only time i have questioned the mvp award is when steve nash won it 2 years in a row... even shaq thought steve nash didnt deserve those mvp's

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 11:36 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If kobe wasn't gonna win the first one
How was he gonna win the second one. I honestly don't put to much faith in the media anymore but nash is good, don't say stuff like that without saying he was good and pointing out who should have won it (already pointing out the media wasn't gonna give it to kobe even though he was the best player carry parker and brown, glad those pieces of crap are gone)
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 11:39 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MVP
No, I am not suggesting that Lakers fans and no one else did it.  I am suggesting that Lakers fans were one of the groups using the argument "If Choker Dirk can have one, Kobe must have one!"

Also, thanks for not answering my question.

As far as Shaq goes, we must respect his opinion about who should win MVP.  This guy is great at evaluating talent.  Just last week he revealed a priceless gem of insight:  DPOY Favorite KG, according to Shaq, does not play defense.

No, really, the better the player, the better they are at evaluating talent.  Wait, what?  Isiah Thomas and Larry Bird and MJ have all compiled craptastic teams?  I guess skill on the basketball floor isn't as related to skill at evaluating basketball talent as we'd like to think.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 11:42 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Stan: Spot on, couldn't have said it better myself
The bottom line (as always) is scoreboard; the Lakers are sitting in pole position, and whether it's by 2 games or 20 is immaterial.  Inexplicable as it seems, they went from "OMG Kobe's cleaned out his locker WTF?!?!?" in October to #1 in the West, so props.

But yes, their climb to the top will only make their coming fall taste all the sweeter.  I wouldn't consider the Nugs to be contenders, but that doesn't mean they can't pull it together for a few games and give Kobe a taste of Dirk's shame.  Much as I'd like to see the Suns end LA's season for a 3rd stright year, that does sound like a more enjoyable option, watching Kobe collect his MVP in a press room deep in the bowels of the Staples center after his team has been eliminated, well, words fail me...

by SoCalSun on Apr 16, 2008 11:41 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess seeing nash
getting the mvps twice without the title wasn't enough for you (see this is what happens when you resort to insults). I know you honestly don't believe that the nuggets can beat the lakers. Maybe dallas and thats pushing it alot.

I guess I have to give you props too your coach most of all. I considered him a big joke but if he could fit in shaq of all people and make it work properly maybe he deserves more credit then I (and bunch of other people including suns fans) give him.

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 11:45 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh?
Not sure what you mean exactly, as far as "Nash's two MVPs not enough."  They are, and they aren't--as a fan it's great to see players on your team win awards, and when the "MVP-MVP" chants ring out in Phoenix they're not just local sentiment, they're backed up by the hardware.  On the other hand, the Suns have been legit title contenders for the past 3 (4 if you count this year) seasons and come up short, so, no the MVPs for Nash aren't enough--we want the ring, and it should come as no surprise that the posts on this board support that goal.

While I certainly wouldn't favor the Nugs in a series against the lakers, I wouldn't be shocked if they knocked them off, and you'd better believe I and most Suns fans would be ecstatic.  There's really not going to be any upsets this year, because nobody is a clear-cut favorite, including the top-seeded Lakers.

As for Kobe, he will likely win the MVP this year, and deservedly so--he's had (another) great year stats-wise, and his team won the West.  I've got no problem saying he's the "best player on the planet" or what-have-you--but that doesn't change the fact that I don't like the guy personally (or as personally as he can be known through the media facade), and the fact that his accuser withdrew her charges and took a cash payout from him doesn't mean he greased the wheels of justice.  It also doesn't make him not a date-rapist who got over.  Face it, Eagle Colorado is something that's never going away.  You wander onto a Suns board the day before the playoffs begin and start talking Laker trash and that's what you're going to get.  

My advice, Laker fans:  point your browsers over to Forum Blue and Gold, and ruminate on your own dreams of glory, free from the hatred of the Suns.

by SoCalSun on Apr 16, 2008 12:42 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the funny thing is...
ideep, the funny thing is i have kept my mouth shut not once have i said the lakers are going to win the championship i havent even predicted how far the lakers will go in the playoffs because your right nobody has done anything yet but i do find it funny that suns fans are always predicting championships and how they are going to beat the lakers spurs and everyone else in their path yet they still havent even won a championship yet.. but you would think they had won 14 by talking to them... the west is tough and its going to be a hard road for anyone to get to the finals and then to play a east team that will proably have alot easier of a road... but i will be rooting for the suns to meet the lakers in the western conf. finals

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 11:51 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh man I just reread everything
Theres way more then 5 insults. (by the way its Ldeep I can see how you could mix that up) Some of the kobe insults are typical but so annoying to see over and over again. Make fun of his skill or the team as a whole or something along those lines (you know besides "hes a rapist", he must have brain washed the justice system or who knows whatever you believe)
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:02 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pau Gasol is the reason Kobe shouldn't be MVP
Pre Gasol, they were a .500 team without Stones.

Face it, the Lakers are loaded.  Now I know Kobe fans don't want to admit that, but they are.  It's easy to put down the rest of the team to prop up your favorite player. But Lamar and Pau are really good, and the others on that team are solid.

If you want to compare Nash's 2nd MVP season with Kobe this year, I'd point out that not only did Steve lose his center for a full season, but he also lost his backup midway through the season.

Basically, without a solid front-line, and with the help of some talented but flawed players, and a boat load of chemistry and solidarity, Steve got the Suns to 55 wins and the WCF.

Had Kurt Thomas managed to stay healthy, along with Raja, I have no doubt we would have won the title.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 12:02 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So Nash with three all stars
Can be MVP but Kobe can't. Thats ridiculous. Besides gasol has only been here for 30 something games and he missed 11 of them. He got the young players together for the 50 something games that kept them the lead. Also he had to deal with injuries to everyone and his pinky needs surgery. I think this kind of year could have beaten nash if they had happened together.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:06 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup
I have to agree w/ that. All Hating aside, the Lakers have done well with all the injuries to key players and Kobe is the MVP....

I can now return to hating the Lakers...that was kind of painful

BSoS - where Alando happens

by Phoenix Stan on Apr 16, 2008 12:12 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Que?
What all-stars are you talking about? Nash played with one other all-star in 05-06: Marion.

If you're talking about 04-05, that argument has more merit, since Amare, Marion were both all-stars, but Johnson was not yet.

So you really mean two all-stars and one soon to be all-star (Johnson).

And I'd say that's fair. Nash was always given too much credit that year.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 12:18 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey
The Lakers were 30-16 pre-Gasol, Pliny.

I'm no Laker fan, but let's not make things up.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 12:12 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is true
But they were 25-11 with bynum. Your adding in that phase when we had no big man in the middle. (with bynum we had 69%) You guys learned how important it is to have something in there and kwame doesn't count.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:25 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I know
But I wasn't responding to "What was their record with Bynum?"

I was responding to "they were .500 pre-Gasol." So the no Bynum games count.

I know they had a better record with Bynum.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 12:28 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See my other post
about kwame. I can't believe we had to deal with him. and we might get him back from free agency. (it is possible shudders) Kobe kept it 50% unitl he got help. Its hard to do when a major part goes down. I applauded him for that but I didn't want him to keep it up, luckly gasol came or I'm not afraid to say we'd be on the outside looking in (that or 8th and thats a big maybe).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:31 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

read what I wrote, fully..
Between Stones going down, and the Lakers getting Gasol.
Not the whole season before Gasol.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 12:31 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, I read that
But by "Stones" I thought you meant "testicles," which made your post a lot more entertaining to me.

You know, "pre-Gasol they were a .500 team without testicles."

But gotcha. My bad.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 12:38 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lmao
that got me laughing. Nice interpretation.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:44 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've given Bynum a nickname
Because of that game he had against Shaq, where he dunked on Shaq and then bumped him.  Took a lot of stones.  I was hoping it would catch on..

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 1:06 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm with it
Just wasn't aware.
Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:09 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so did kolbe
the lakers were 22-15 pre gasol and yes kobe lost his center as well when andrew bynum went down in early january.. so the lakers were alot better than a 500 team without gasol... also kobe has had to deal with injurys to trevor ariza , vladimar radmanovich, and did all of this with a messed up finger  

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 12:56 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We started kwame for a quater of the year
and won the west. I think that alone should wrap it up. Mr butterfingers himself. Come on you can't argue against that.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:27 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll take your pinky, and raise you..
a congenital back condition.

What I'm saying, and the record will bear me out, is that in the time between Bynum getting injured, and the Lakers receiving the gift of Gasol, the Lakers were mediocre, and they were to all intents and purposes dead in the water.  

There is no question whatsoever, that Gasol's arrival saved the Lakers season, given that the difference between top seed in the West and missing the playoffs is a scant 9 games.

Consequently, despite what Lakers fans may think, this season from Kobe, doesn't even come close to what Nash did 2 years ago.

To appreciate the difference would take an objective perspective that eschews the elevation of players into comic-book super heroes, and instead focuses on valuing a game where all the pieces of a team miraculously fit together, performing in concert, with metaphysical harmony and precision.  

If you ever watched and were a fan of the 80's Lakers, then I am certain you have witnessed this and hence have the capability to embrace such a viewpoint. To do so, would be a decision that would work to your long term advantage.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 12:29 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah the back thing was something big
Which is why I agreed with him being mvp. If injured part works for nash it should work for kobe too, lol. I know the lakers would have been dead in the water but every star needs help. Its the same for your team, my team, the hornets, the celtics.

Bad part is nash isn't gonna get the same respect. Chris paul is putting up bigger numbers and there gonna say he was better then nash's mvp season.

Just saying you guys are gonna here that for awhile. Let me ask you this Pliny the Elder, do you think kobe is this years mvp. (all honesty, not from the suns view, where kobe wouldn't even be a shoes salesmen).

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 12:38 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Overstatement
I think you can make the point that maybe Nash had a better season in 05-06, but it doesn't really make a lot sense to compare the No Gasol/Bynum Lakers to the 05-06 Suns.

That Suns team without Johnson and Amare was a lot more talented than the 07-08 Lakers without Gasol/Bynum. I mean, if you look at the "other" contributors, you have Marion versus Odom, which isn't really a comparison (Marion had his best year as a pro that season). Diaw versus...Radman? Bell versus...Fisher? Barbosa versus...Farmar?

The 05-06 Suns weren't stacked but they had a lot more talent than the 07-08 Lakers without Gasol/Bynum. So what do you expect? I also the case can be made that Marion was more valuable to the Suns than Nash that year (Using the Wins Produced stat that you seem fond of, Marion produced four more wins than Nash and a better rate per minute).

And as far as games without Bynum/Gasol, I don't really think it's fair to compare the small sample of 17 games ( 9-8, including when Gasol was hurt) to a full 82 games of Nash without Amare and Johnson.

So I think it's arguable that Nash had a better year, but it surely isn't clear.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:03 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My MVP choices are
Garnett, Paul, Kobe/LeBron in that order.

What KG has done in Boston, to spark the greatest single season turnaround (and it's not even close), is close to amazing.  What I really like about his game this year is he has taken what Nash and Paul do in running an offense, and has done a similar thing on defense.

Paul is 2nd, just because I really like that kind of point guard game.  Statistically, his season has been really good  (leading the league in 2 categories), but I think that's a false thing to focus on.

Kobe this year has been really good, where he's even been playing some Nash like ball in spots, and I love to watch him.  But I think he's still an inefficient player at times, and the contributions of his teammates has been vastly underrated this year, especially Lamar Odom (who is a much more self contained player than Shawn Marion, before you make the comparison).

LeBron has been the best individual contributor this season, but the Cavs are a 45 game team in the East, so while he gets a nod, he's really a joint 3rd spot.

Other players that would be in a conversation about MVP, to set the landscape but not be seriously considered are Ginobili, Duncan, Nash, Deron Williams, Paul Pierce, Shaq, and Rasheed Wallace.

Amare doesn't make my list because while he's spectacular, and possibly the best exponent of stunt basketball in the league, he has 3 flaws:
i)  He pads his stats, a lot.
ii) He benefits massively from Shaq being in the middle.
iii)  He often just takes games off, defensively.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 1:04 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I appreciate your opinion
I just want to say one thing and then leave it be. Everyone has there own opinion. Lamar Odom will be underrated when he starts next year. This year hes about right. He spent half the year being inconsistent, standing and firing threes. When he shaved off that star off his head (and got gasol) then he became good. But through the whole year Marion was more consistent (Marion disappears too I know, but not as frequently as Odom used too).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:07 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed
I think I have gone over to the Garnett party as well.

I'd have Kobe 2nd over Paul, but that's definitely a debatable split.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:09 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I didn't agree with him
but he made a whole lot of good points. If Garnett or Paul won I wouldn't be to angry there both really deserving. (but If lebron wins one for the reasons kobe never got one I reserve the right to be pissed).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:13 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was agreeing with Pliny
Your comment wasn't even up when I started typing mine. But you've got nice points to, Deep.
Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:15 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pliny for President!
I agree with every single thing you said.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:10 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gift of gasol
should be more like the trade that made the whole western conf. react.. it even made the suns trade one of their best players(and a talented point gaurd that their hack coach never gave a chance) for a broken down 36 yr old out of shape center with a big mouth oh yeah they also have to pay him 20 million a year for the next 2 years.. it also made the mavs trade alot of young talent for a over rated point gaurd who barely has anything left in the tank and has shot 30% from the field his whole career and has about as many turnovers as he does assist.. talk about knee jerk reaction

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 1:11 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um, What??
What does this have to do with anything?  Even if you are right, then what?

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:14 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ldeep vs. windowclosed
Goodness, this is what I meant the other day when I said I was surprised to see a Lakers fan like ldeep who makes logical arguments.  Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the average Lakers fan: windowclosed (read: brain closed).

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:15 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

somewhere up there
we were debating about that. Click reply to this next time so people who drop by don't get lost as easily.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:15 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think
I can't even remember, either way I think all the points were made. Elder really summed it up really well, three guys, all deserving, arguments for all of them. I'm satisfied.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:17 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Found it
I'm still pretty sure windowclosed didn't add anything intelligent to the discussion.  

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:20 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Drama Queen MVP
Another reason I don't think Kobe should by the MVP is because of all the summertime drama he pulled.  If he has the same exact year without the drama queen antics, I'd say he was a legitimate MVP candidate.  In my mind, a person who treats his teammates the way he did last summer cannot be the MVP.  Imagine if Nash said something like we should ship Barbosa out.   Goodness.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:22 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Real Tangibles
apparently puts a lot of weight in intangibles.

In my opinion, Kobe's "antics" are irrelevant especially since they primarily happened long before the season started.

It just seems to get too complicated once you take off the court issues (that the public will never fully understand) into consideration.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:26 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Intangibles
You're right, actually.  I do consider intangibles critical.  

I have made this point about his summertime drama in other discussion but never has someone made the point to me that they should not count because they occurred the season started.  I'm a believer in the idea that the MVP is not a lifetime achievement award and is instead an award for the regular season.  Given that belief, I agree with you that this makes his summertime drama somewhat irrelevant.  So I'll concede that.  :)

As far as off the court issues go, I do think they are important to consider.  Value indicates more than just on court peformance.  If Kobe's soap opera had taken place during the regular season, I would not disregard it as an off the court issue.  

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:39 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's fair
I guess if they had taken place during the season I'd have less of an issue. I still think the comparisons get messy, but yeah had he been doing this during November-December, I could understand it.
Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:45 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think thats gonna help to get votes
The media will say that after all the stuff he caused he kept himself focused and played properly and tried a different tactic (he did try a different tactic which worked out). To be able to block out that stuff would get him more votes not less. Besides its the season mvp what happens before or after doesn't change the in season mvp.

Try to remember this summer and your opinion on it. I think history will change it as that was the best move kobe could have done to make them contenders (they needed a shakeup but a different way instead of being caught in a parking lot making fun of bynum ,who has become tied for my favorite player. I'm not sure if he needed it but without that who knows if mitch (laker gm) would have been looking for someone like gasol.)

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:26 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No credit due to Kobe for the rant
The worst thing to come out of this is the ridiculous view that Kobe was right to throw his tantrum last summer, and that he is now somehow responsible for the Lakers acquisition of Gasol, or Bynum's resurgence, or the return of Derek Fisher (don't sleep on that).  The idea that Kobe woke Mitch Kupchak from his slumber, or that Mitch tried any harder to make trades this year is laughable.  

The pre-Gasol Lakers were better because Jordan Farmar and Andrew Bynum spent all summer working on their games, and came back better than when they left.  They Lakers also turned Smush Parker into Derek Fisher--a huge upgrade on the court and in the locker room.  Odom didn't suddenly get better, it's that he was allowed to retreat into the pressure free zone of being the 3rd option instead of having to carry the load as the 2nd option.  The Laker season nearly cratered when Bynum went down, but was rescued when Memphis inexplicably gave away Gasol for Kwame Brown (someone who will very likely be OUT OF THE LEAGUE after tonight).  

For anyone needing another reason to dislike Kobe, the fact that he is now taking credit for this ("sometimes you've gotta shake the tree") is just another sign of his enormous ego and utter classlessness.

by SoCalSun on Apr 16, 2008 1:39 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree
I'm highly skeptical of the idea that Kobe did everything he did "knowingly" to put pressure on his teammates.  Thats pure fantasy.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:41 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats prettymuch what I said
but in a lot meaner way. Of course no one even buys it and even in his new interviews he says he didn't do it in the right way to shake things up. Though you figured out the true lakers fan from the bandwagon fan. The bandwagon fan would leave with kobe and the laker fan would wave goodbye. (proud to say I would have said goodbye though that would have really really sucked)

This year was like a soap oprea. everytime something finally settle down, something else happened, internal, external. (ex. kobe summer, bynum goes down, fued with you and your coach, fued with cp3, going for the top of the WC, man you couldn't take a break and through out half the year it was kobe is probably gonna leave) Quite the crazy year course you guys had a crazy year yourself. I'm gonna miss the nba in the next month or so.

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 10:55 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's actually been a remarkable season
You're absolutely right.

Six teams at the top of the west within, what, 3 games of each other?  8 games separating regular season glory and desolate oblivion.  4 seeds not resolved until the final day of the regular season.

An historic team, the Celtics, having an historic 66 win season.

Trade. Anti-trade. Soap Opera.

The Suns seemingly sacrificing regular season dominance for something more powerful.  I'm amazed Steve Kerr can walk, with those cohones, and surprised he doesn't just self-combust from the friction.

And it has only just begun.  As Phreak says in Hackers.. "This is gonna be good"

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 11:16 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

real tangiblesguy
yes most lakers fans are arrogant but we have every right to be ...but lets not forget suns fans who are just as arrogant if not more  but have no right to talk... its like meeting a atlanta hawks fan that talks smack... usually we just laugh those people off because we have bigger fish to fry... my brain might be closed or whatever you tried to say but at least im not a suns fan.. again to all you suns fans that missed it heres that # again 1(800)lakerswin 1(800)lakerswin

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 1:31 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seriously
does anyone think this guy's comments add anything to the discussion or to the site?

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:36 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think they add humor.
Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:40 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not really
Guys like him give Laker fans a bad name.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 1:42 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you could expand that
to sports fans.
Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:47 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lovely
"My brain might be closed...but at least im not a Suns fan..."

That's just fantastic. It should be a T-shirt.

Also:

I don't know that any fan should be arrogant, or at least not because they are a fan. I mean, last time I checked, they don't really contribute to the victories, and it's not that remarkable to cheer for a team.

But if saying I like these guys more than these guys adds to your sense of self-worth then well...we return to the earlier remark:

"my brain might be closed...but at least im not a suns fan.."

Too perfect.

Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:39 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean...
What does this guy expects to read on a Suns Blog?? "We love the Lakers" "Kobe for MVP" "Gasol is my Hero" WTF??!

If you are going to come here, and give us your side of the story or opinion, at least make it an intelligent one.

by PanamaSun on Apr 16, 2008 1:53 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

of course not
 because im right and im a lakers fan... but come on lets here some excuses suns fans are awsome at that...

by windowclosed on Apr 16, 2008 1:40 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"my brain might be closed...
but at least im not a suns fan.."
Vulgar. Lazy. And Uncreative. Fuck yeah.

by rosewood on Apr 16, 2008 1:41 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

windowclosed
Can all of you Suns fans please not use him as a basis for all Laker fans.

I promise we are not all that retarded, and am more than willing to hear your side of the debate.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 1:46 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll try
I guess I've seen one too many fan of the Lakers make an argument like "Shut up or Kobe will drop 80 on your ass!"

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:48 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you read up in the post
They no the different between a laker fan that will actually debate and the "laker rules, everyone sucks" fan. I'm the resident laker fan around here (that trys to put a good name for our side)
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:49 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know
I give you credit above as well.  You're an intelligent fan and always make good points.  This guy was just pushing my buttons a bit much and I let loose.  Sorry.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:52 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do the same thing
If some other team fan puts up insults and no real arguments, No need to apologize.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:55 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Big Takeaway
The Fakers are a hot button topic at BSoS.  A post about them generated over 80 responses in a few hours.  We don't even cross 80 for some games.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 1:59 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know
I commented first to see if I could quell what would be a post explosion I figure I had time to do other stuff come back to see that 20 posts had happened since my first post. Got love these rivalries.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 2:02 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i guess subjects are mandatory.
We have a large fan base of people who don't do work at work.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 2:02 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At least it provides entertainment
I wonder if the Spurs fans are just as boring as their team.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 2:03 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pounding the Rock
The only Spurs blog I visit is Pounding the Rock.  The people there seem highly cynical and their humor  is pretty dry.  I guess you could call that boring.  But they definitely have their own personality over at PtR.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 2:06 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope so
I was reading through comments, as I normally do, but his were just so ridiculous that I had to register and apologize for it.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 1:54 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

These blogs are gonna get more crazy
Next season with the whole SB nation updates and one account for everyone (I picked up my name that was reserved from this site by going to the main sb site) who knows what kind of person will be bored enough to start flaming each other. (I like the idea  of one account for everyone)
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 1:52 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hope not
I visit a lot of team blogs but comment on only one of them because I felt the discussions here were some of the best around as were the people.  I hope it doesn't turn into one giant flame war.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 16, 2008 2:01 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think individual blogs
are allowed to ban people if they get out of control so I'm sure it'll be under control but I still like the concept of it.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 2:03 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love it that the Lakers and their fans hate us
and we hate them back..

Bill Shankly (and you may not know who he is) once said "Football.. It's not a question of life or death.  It's far more important than that."

Whatever you may think about the Lakers and their fans (and I'd like nothing better for each of them to be ravaged by a pack of horny, rabid psychotic badgers with a death wish), you have to respect their fandom, at this time.

Of course, half of these people were nowhere to be seen when the pre-Shaq Lakers truly sucked.  Even Jack Nicholson stopped watching Lakers games at that time, and could be seen courtside at Nets games.

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2008 4:58 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i was there
i sat there through the rudy t/frank hamblin year.  it was very difficult.

by iamsupercool on Apr 16, 2008 11:56 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow

I miss all the big topics.

MVPs, Lakers....

meh!

by ZonaFlash on Apr 16, 2008 6:33 PM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

where were you
Half the time I was commenting I was expecting you to swoop in and throw in your two cents and it never happened. I'm not gonna lie I was kind of disappointed.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 16, 2008 9:55 PM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why you ask???
what is a laker fan doing on a phoenix suns blog/?? good question i usually go to other teams blogs to get thier opinions on different situations and see what other fans are saying..i usually dont join the blog but yesterday when i read phoenix stans blog slaming the lakers i got a little p/o and decided to talk a little trash and have a little fun ( b/c thats what this is about). it seemed like the suns fans took it really personally which i can understand they are standing up for the team they love and rightfully so but you have to understand that all i was doing was standing up for my team... yes i am willing to hear the other side of the story and yes i will give credit were credit is due.. i was a little shocked though to find a resident laker fan on a suns blog standing up for suns fans which is a little wierd but whatever.. good luck in the playoffs i will be chating with yall very soon...

by windowclosed on Apr 17, 2008 10:19 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what?
I spend most of my time defending the lakers. I may give credit where credit is due (like you just did) but mostly I will defend the lakers around here (just cause I figured bryant kept getting hit here and he might as well have a fair argument). Besides I want them to beat the spurs. After that when we face in the playoffs then the hating can begin.
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 17, 2008 11:06 AM MDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

me too
i would love to see a laker suns match up that would be awsome..

by windowclosed on Apr 17, 2008 11:22 AM MDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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