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Game 3 Recap - Eating Crow Edition

If "team" is ever going to mean something more then a collection of talent laden contracts then some force of leadership and will has to bring those egos together and create the shared purpose and common mission that enables and embodies cohesiveness.  We were told that the Matrix stood in the way of that unity. We were told that Shaq would bring on-the-court and off-the-court leadership that Eating_crow_mediumtranscended his funny jokes and big mouth. We were told wrong.

There will be plenty of time for blame, recriminations and armchair punditry about next steps. For now, its time to eat a little crow because the first step in fixing a problem is recognizing you have one.

Hubris is our problem.

We are a marquee team in this league and for us to go down 0-3 is something I didn't even think about."  - Amare Stoudemire

So join me Coach "We are the Better Team" in a taste of the black bird. The San Antonio Spurs are not dead as had been otherwise predicted in these pages and the better team came into our house last night and delivered a world-class ass whopping the likes of which I don't recall seeing in a playoff series of this nature.

A word for all you America-first flag waving types who don't think anything great can come from outside our borders - when you are next tempted to deride the French as being soft or cowardly, remember this man . He is a man.

That Frenchman owned our ass last night and the Suns had better come up with an answer to stop him and his amigos that involves team effort. DJ Strawberry isn't going to stop him and The Matrix isn't coming back. It takes a team to stop a team and it takes a leader to build a team.

 

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Hubris?

I think it’s more like blissful ignorance. Like, up until last night, Coach ‘Antoni (not a typo… re-appropriating the ‘Enver joke) thought, “Hey, we’re doing everything right. When we get home, it’ll be fine,” only to discover that he wasn’t doing everything right and he’s go no answers. To be honest, I’m not sure which is worse.

by Mike Lisboa on Apr 26, 2008 9:31 AM MDT   0 recs

Part of it is that D'Antoni wanted the team to play loose and confident, not tight and scared

Therefore, he HAS to say all those things, whether he believes it himself. Now is not the time to say, “Oh, golly, we aren’t good enough!”

That’s for the off-season and the regular season.

by ZonaFlash on Apr 26, 2008 9:34 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Therefore, he HAS to say all those things, whether he believes it himself. Now is not the time to say, "Oh, golly, we aren’t good enough!"

But he never said those things during the regular season, during practices or during preseason—at least not the media.

Not “hubris” or “blissful ignorance” - it’s just the Kool-Aid. Fans are allowed - no, encouraged—to drink it, but Coach D has been hitting it hard.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 26, 2008 9:48 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd like to thank the Spurs...

Dear Spurs, thank you for ripping the band-aid off in one clean shot. Far from being distraught today, as a Suns fan, I am at peace.

After the utter bull$h!t of last year, what I really didn’t need was a prolonged tease or epic tragedy. You even managed to arrange to have the “ridiculous miracle 3-ball that kills the other team” come right up front in game 1, just getting that out of the way. As much as I talked myself back into thinking the Suns could get back in it with a win in game 3, I really knew deep down after that 3rd quarter on-court panic attack that this year’s model of the Suns was destined to replicate all the others that preceded it in the category of “not quite good enough”.

Not really sure where to place the blame for this one, and maybe there is no where to really place it. The Spurs came out and handled their business like champions, pure and simple. They clearly had a plan and they executed. They applied pressure early on, and the Suns wilted in the face of it.

People will call for D’Antoni’s head, and maybe they’ll get it, but I’m not sure that is the answer. Either way, this team has now joined the Mavs in the psych-ward. Next year the main pieces will all be older, and for most of the core that will not mean better, but slower, particularly for The Big Gamble. Better draft a shooter or a back-up point at 15, I guess.

by SoCalSun on Apr 26, 2008 9:56 AM MDT   0 recs

Don't get too distraught

Even if we won this series… somehow…we would’ve been in dangerous waters anyway. If the regular season was any indication…we would’ve needed to play the Mavs, Nuggets, and the Wizards to win a championship

by whatisboxhappening on Apr 26, 2008 10:42 AM MDT   0 recs

I want it to last

I agree with all that is being said, but with SUNS it is always a drama, and all kinds of miracles, and Stevie pulling them out by the ears, that’s why I love them so much. Like that commentator said during the game (3-0) "somebody has to do it" – totally in SUNS character.
So, I say – Per a-spur-a ad astra ! – GO SUNS !

by HERD on Apr 26, 2008 10:54 AM MDT   0 recs

I just want to say

that the way that y’all have handled these losses has been most impressive. I know that this series certainly hasn’t been pleasant for Suns fans, but you guys have shown some true class anyway. Character matters!

by 4Him on Apr 26, 2008 11:38 AM MDT   0 recs

I second that.

You guys are passionate, and honest. I respect that. Before this series started I figured you guys would whine and cry foul after every loss. But you’ve handled the losses with class and put up with and me dropping by.

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on Apr 26, 2008 1:43 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting Phenomenon

Most of the “whining” from last year was arguably justified. You cannot honestly say that the complaints about the suspensions, the knee to the groin and the kick to the achilles fit into the category of “whining losers.” While you may argue about the sanctions (or lack thereof), that does not fit into the category of “ticky-tack” whining. That fits into the category of justifiable (even if misplaced) anger.

Notably, going into last year’s series, most fans were upset that the Suns players respected the San Antonio players too much. There was a perception of too much reverence, not enough disprect for the opponent. Before that, the rivalry was at a relatively low temperature. Suns had beaten the Spurs a few times in the decade before and the Spurs were getting the best of the last few years. That was all.

There was a combination of “new” Suns fans that couldn’t ever understand how the Suns could possibly lose and those who felt wronged by the turn of events of last year (see above). The former category is despicable. The latter category deserved to be heard. Unfortunately, all complaints have been unjustifiably categorized under the former.

Maybe it doesn’t always show up in my posts here, but while blogging at my other site, I have more than once explained how must I respect the Spurs (and hate that they’re so damnded good). Again, though, outrage over the suspensions is (be honest) more than debatable, and that should not get mixed up with teenagers who watch too much ESPN.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 26, 2008 6:26 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Ima Man up about this

The Spurs are a powerhouse…anybody that say Tim Duncan is not a top 10 all-timer is crazy….the thing I like about Timmy’s all to boring-yet-highly-effective game is that he does whatever it takes to win…WHATEVER IT TAKES. I know Parker and Genobili are going supernova on us but Timmy is the man. Anybody that doesn’t respect this guys skills does really understand the game. Say what you will, but you would have to start your team with this guy. In his prime over Kobe or Lebron….he’s that good… now enough with this crap….Sun’s lets pull a Red Sox’s over Yankees in 04…they were down 3-0…wishful thinking huhh

by Ron_da1 on Apr 26, 2008 1:31 PM MDT   0 recs

Duncan

IMO, even among today’s crop of players, Duncan is underrated.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 1:33 PM MDT   0 recs

I don't think hes underrated

Everyone knows hes one of the greatest 4 of all time (even if he plays the 5 just as much). Lucky for most of the league he is getting older and even the best eventually slow down (I think your cactus is good enough example)

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 26, 2008 2:02 PM MDT   0 recs

4/5 Controversey

Seriously, there is no way Duncan is a 4. At all.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 3:09 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Not a 4 at all?

Why not? Sure Oberto isn’t a known Centre, but I wonder if the Spurs had an established C, whether this arguement would have any substance to it? Amare is a 4, he’s played at both 4 and 5, PF/C, same thing with Duncan??

by dang on Apr 26, 2008 3:52 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Amare

I’m glad you bring up Amare. Amare is a 4. In style of play and in body size and in ability to defend size. We’ve played him at the 5 for years. Thus, in effect, Phoenix has been playing 2 guards and 3 forwards instead of 2 G, 2F and 1C. The point there is that the players a team on the court, while they are labeled as 2G’s, 2F’s, and 1C, aren’t always those positions. So, even when the Admiral was playing for the Spurs, the Spurs were playing 2G, 1F and 2C. RIght now, when Oberto and Duncan are playing, Spurs are playing a PF at C and a C at PF. When Thomas and Duncan play, they are playing 2 C’s at PF and C. The confusion arises from the fact that boxscores require you to label at least one of the players on the court as a “C”. The Spurs have decided that as long as there is another C or PF on court, Duncan will not be labeled “C.”

Also, when you consider “era,” for the majority of Duncan’s career, he has played in an era when PF was not much of a power position and most teams stacked more versatile players at that position. Given this, I feel Duncan is a C.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 3:59 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

My Reason for Wanting Duncan Recognized as a C

Look, Duncan is a great player and his name has been written in the history books time and again. He can hold his own on the historic list of all-time great centers.

When we compare him to the list of all-time great 4’s, though, we see that Duncan is very different in terms of body size and style of play than a large number of people on that list. However, when we consider Duncan with the all-time great 5’s, this difference is smaller. So why label him a 4 just so we can say he is the greatest ever at his position?

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 4:04 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

When Duncan started, the Spurs DID have an established C – name was David Robinson… an Amare-type player, but with a better jumper, better defense, and better decision making. You might not remember him…

chaos... panic... pandemonium... my work here is done.

by rick.2g on Apr 26, 2008 9:21 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Underrated

I don’t think he’s underrated on the all-time list. In fact, I think the argument can be made that best 4 of all time for Duncan might be overrated. If we consider him with the fives, as I think we should, it would be tough making a top 5 argument for him. But in today’s game, he is hardly mentioned by analysts as one of the top 3 or even top 5 players in the league. I think he belongs in the top 3 if not top 1.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 3:12 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I keep replying

It’s also never mentioned how fast Duncan is aging. This is his 11th year in the league and he is showing signs of wear and tear. For comparison, Shaq’s eleventh year in the league was 02-03. Wow. Garnett’s 11th was 05-06, one year removed from his MVP campaign. Kobe’s 11th year was last year.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 3:16 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

It's true

he is showing some signs of age but when comparing him to those players you have to remember he’s already played over 100 playoff games, that’s an entire season plus some. i know all of those other guys played a lot of playoff games too but that brings me to my next point, he stayed in college for 4 years and is 32. after kg’s 11th season he had only played in 47 playoff games and was still 29. so it’s not really a fair comparison

by Stymo on Apr 26, 2008 4:13 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Point

I counted up KG’s minutes vs. Duncan’s minutes during their first 11 years in the league and Duncan came out about 5,000 ahead. It’s interesting to note that about 4,000 of these were from the playoffs and their regular season minutes played were almost equal. A fairer comparison by minutes of the two would be the Current Duncan vs. KG in the middle of the 06-07 season. Still, Duncan seems to be aging faster than KG was then (perhaps due to more banging in the post). Even Shaq had played fewer minutes (3000 fewer) through his first 11 seasons. Interesting. I didn’t expect that. So I guess what’s not mentioned is not the fact that Duncan is aging fast but instead that the Spurs have used him very heavily in his ten years.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 4:51 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

He still

looks pretty darn effective…and he’s adding 3 point range to his game

by Phoenix Stan on Apr 26, 2008 5:07 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

True

That franchise has definitely leaned on him his entire career. This year you could see they started running the offense through him less, i’m sure that will continue in the coming years and prolong his already hall of fame career. I’ve always said i hate 11/12th’s of the Spurs team, but I just can’t hate Timmy D.

by Stymo on Apr 26, 2008 5:21 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

TD

I like his jokes. I was watching this behind-the-scenes all-star game clip on nba.com and he walked up to CP3 ( who had apparently taken TD’s locker ) and teased him by saying “It’s okay, sit wherever you want, let me just move my stuff.” His humble attitude is also refreshing.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 26, 2008 5:48 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Duncan is the reason lottery teams tank

Lebron (Oden potentially) also. Winning the lottery 11 years ago changed the entire course of the Spurs franchise, and they went from the “softest” team in the league to a near dynasty. Without Jordan, Chicago would still be a never was.

by SoCalSun on Apr 26, 2008 8:47 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not clear to me

whether you’re saying specifically that the Spurs tanked in 1996-97, or just that lottery teams tank in order to get a prize like Duncan. During that season, the Spurs were absolutely injury-depleted, the biggest ones being the Admiral, who played in just six games, and Sean Elliott , who missed more than half the season.

by 4Him on Apr 27, 2008 12:18 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

He should mean both

If you remember that spurs season the admiral was healthy enough for the last bunch of games but they didn’t bring him back. So in effect that is still tanking.

Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.

by ldeep on Apr 27, 2008 1:39 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

I wasn't saying the Spurs tanked that year

I wasn’t saying that the Spurs tanked that year, just making the (admittedly, rather obvious) point that winning the lottery can change the fortunes of a franchise, and Duncan is evidence of that. Robinson probably could have played more than 6 games that year, but on the other hand why risk your only franchise player for nothing? Take a look at Miami this year—Marion missed about 2 games a year over his career, and suddenly his back is shot when they were just playing out the string, and Wade shut it down as well. For that matter Shaq probably would not have been back on the court as soon as he was had he remained in South Beach. It’s a bit of an ethical gray area, but the payoff is potentially enormous, and pretty clearly there are numerous teams each year that, err, “develop their bench for next year” down the stretch.

by SoCalSun on Apr 27, 2008 10:47 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, I definitely noticed that about the Heat this year. But even if your team finishes with the worst record it still might not get the #1 pick, and if there really isn’t a can’t-miss franchise player coming out, is it really worth all the negative publicity that comes with tanking?

by 4Him on Apr 27, 2008 12:22 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Negative publicity

Fans love hope and nothing is more hopeful than a draft pick. One good one sets you up for 10 years

The Hype King - I hype you long time

by ZonaFlash on Apr 27, 2008 12:39 PM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Addition

Also read dang’s post below. If we keep college minutes in mind, Duncan has likely played way more minutes through his first 11 years (NBA + college minutes) than either Shaq or Garnett. Thus, current Duncan is closer in “age” to Shaq after being traded from the Lakers and Garnett in (gasp) the future. Keeping that in mind, I would actually say that Duncan has aged somewhat gracefully instead of fast. Haha. How funny. I ended up believing the exact opposite of what I started off believing.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 27, 2008 3:54 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

False analogy

Shaq left LSU early for the NBA and KG and Kobe didn’t go to college. In other words, in their 11th years they were significantly younger than Duncan.

by 4Him on Apr 27, 2008 12:04 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry

I posted this before reading ahead. Stymo and RTG completed the argument.

by 4Him on Apr 27, 2008 12:05 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

Crazy

Shocked, flabbergasted, every Parker jumper was another dagger entered into me – I hate to say it – just a brilliant game from the Spurs…..History making attempt #1 here we come….

Out of curiousity, just how many Spurs fans are there here?

by dang on Apr 26, 2008 2:49 PM MDT   0 recs

There's only a few of us

Btw, what does “History making attempt #1” mean?

by 4Him on Apr 27, 2008 12:22 AM MDT to parent up   0 recs

They say it is about Garnett

Stevie – that is History in the making!
GO SUNS !

by HERD on Apr 27, 2008 3:28 AM MDT   0 recs

Hon, "yougotta believe", and your team will win in 25008...000,RealTangiblesGuy

And now for something different -

The SUNS were shining, till they were
Shone-crippled in their might:
He did his very best to make
The games so smooth and bright—
And this was odd, because it was
The middle of the fight.

The season went so sulkily,
Because Steve Nash (the Sun)
Had got no business being dad
Before the ring had come—
“It’s very rude of him,” we said,
“To come and spoil the fun!”

But on the other hand:

The Nose was wet as wet could be,
The Shaq was dry as dry.
You could not see a game, because
No game was worth a try
Denial works, so well in Rome
But Rome’s not NB-I!

by HERD on Apr 27, 2008 7:29 AM MDT   0 recs

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