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Blogosphere Star Chamber Targets Suns Coach

 

Where as, there wasn't much resistance to the Fire George Karl movment and when the Fire Isaiah chants entered the media and NBA blogosphere they were only amplified and Star_chamber_mediumstrengthened. 

Where as, the case against Coach Mike DAntoni is much more contested. Many within the Suns community and many more in the broader NBA commentariat defend him against the growing clamor for his head to be mounted on one of the many palm trees that line Central Ave in downtown Phoenix.

Therefore we hereby assemble the NBA Blogosphere Star Chamber to sit in judgment of the fate of Coach Mike D'Antoni 

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 04/30/08 6:38 AM PDT ]

The decision might be a fait accompli (or it might not ) but the Star Chamber will begin hearing evidence. Read on.

Star-divide

The Evidence for the Prosecution - presented by Phoenix Stan

Before us now is the question of continued employment as Head Coach of Mr. Mike D'Antoni. Coach D is a beloved figure among media and players and is highly regarded for breathing new life into both the Phoenix Suns and the entire NBA with his new up-tempo style. He and his lovely wife are well regarded and wonderful people.

The issue before us however, is his failure to deliver on his primary responsibility - having his team prepared to play hard every night. Refusal to develop a deeper rotation did lead to limited options in crucial situations but more importantly contributed to his inability to hold players accountable for their lack of energy and effort. His inability to coach and create a defensive philosophy and his inability to overcome innate stubbornnes to make adjustments in playoff series further contributed to a gross under performance of his team. Great coaches are recognized for "doing more with less". Coach D'Antoni has done less with more and needs to go.

 

The Opening Statements by the Defense - presented by Zona "Johnny Cochrane" Flash, Blog Esquire

First, we agree that D'Antoni is incompetent, dangerous to the team and should be fired immediately.  Besides high school basketball coaches are not hard to find.

However, as for Head Coach Mike D'Antoni, the defense will show that the crimes presented by the prosecution

  1. relate solely to GM Mike D'Antoni and not Head Coach D'Antoni, as pointed out by Public Defender JSun.  No coach wants to develop a bench, it is the GM's job to force them to do it.
  2. that the coach cannot be compared to Popovich or Jackson who have more secure contract positions.  Pop and Jackson have the luxury to sacrifice wins without the risk of being fired, D'Antoni has already been fired once for not winning, like most coaches.
  3. that D'Antoni's stubbornness is, for the most part, warranted by his seniority and success - he is not some 40 year old former college player with no prior coaching experience.
  4. Coach Mike D'Antoni is just a scape goat for a series of bad personnel moves that included mistakes by GM Colangelo, GM D'Antoni, GM Kerr and tax-dodging Owner Robert Sarver. 
  5. that Coach D'Antoni is a great handler of player egos, is a genius at turning junk players into respectable players by  maximizing their talents, is still one of the best coaches in the NBA and one of the best ever that the Suns have had and deserves a lot of the credit for the past three years success.

In Conclusion, the Defense is personally and completely offended by the outrageous, libelous, slanderous, baseless, and ungrateful claims made by the Prosecution.   The Prosecution ought to be stripped of its rights to blog in the NBA and in a free America.  Douchebag.

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 04/30/08 8:14 AM PDT ]

Tell me Mr. Zona Cochrane that you did not just debase the memory of your vainglorious namesake in such a crude and ignorant manner! I can take your petty insults as sign of your incivility and lack of wit or creativity, but I can not let stand the complete illogic of your argument.

Any attempt to separate "Coach" D'Antoni from "GM" D'Antoni is laughable at best and a gross disservice and injustice to your client.  If the decision is wrong, he must be gone.

 

[Note by ZonaFlash, 04/30/08 11:51 AM EDT ]

Frankly, Phoenix Stan, it has been clear in your blog tenure that you cannot grasp even passing wit, much less true creativity, but only petty insults.  Hence, douchebag, you Douchebag. 

For your sake, I will explain it to you like you are a six year old. 

Except for a few coaches like Pat Riley and Greg Popovich, no coach has much job security.  They are fired at the first sign of trouble, be it a protracted losing streak or the capriciousness of an Owner or GM that is trying to find a scapegoat.

Therefore, ALL less privileged coaches all look very myopically to achieve wins rather than developing players.  If you gave them more security, perhaps you might see development of longer term projects.  Further, if you do not have a strong GM like Joe Dumars, then you cannot override the coaches' impulses and force them to develop a bench as the Pistons have.  

Forcing D'Antoni to take over GM responsibilities because Sarver stupidly pulled the plug on BC without at backup plan was a disaster.  Incidentally, not nearly enough blame for the decisions made then have gone to wonderboy David Griffin during that era where Griffin had the day-to-day GM responsibilities and D'Antoni had the title.  Further, you had no true GM to override D'Antoni's coaching survival instincts.

Sounds like a problem with the owner - D'Antoni was framed.

And for the record, GM D'Antoni IS gone.  In America we do not believe in Double Jeopardy.   Stick to the here and now, which is coaching issues.  How can you fault D'Antoni for being exactly like every coach without job security in the NBA in his loathing to develop a bench? 

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 04/30/08 9:29 AM PDT ]

Do they teach reading comprehension at the third-world madrassa you attend there in Chapel Hill, NC? Let me help you. My point is not that Coach D should "develop the bench" so that players like Pike and Marks and Rookieberry get better. My point is that he should use the bench to hold his players accountable for their lacktion during the regular season. Do not put JVG's words in my keyboard.

How many times do we need to hear the  "we didn't play with energy or passion tonight"  excuse before he realizes that playing with energy and passion isn't some mysterious thing brought on by the same forces that turn night into day.

Where's the accountability? Speaking of which, I see that playing nice with all the Spurs trolls has diluted your ability to use anything other then the "douchebag" card. Nice.

Let me just demonstrate how accountability works: You just said "How can you fault D'Antoni for being exactly like every coach " which begs the question - how can you consider him so great if he's acting like "every other coach". See, that's me holding you accountable for being inconsistent and hypocritical.

My friend, I suggest you bring your A game to this fight and not your game 3 level of energy and passion. I will leave you to lick your wounds and ponder this for a few hours while I attend to more important challenging things then destroying your arguments.

 

[Note by ZonaFlash, 04/30/08 12:48 PM EDT ]

Ouch.  Touche, you douche!

I said, thus far, only on one dimension is D'Antoni like common coaches - and that is his contract.   Ironically, the solution may be to extend Coach D'Antoni, not fire him.

Let's move on to the new accusation: 

#2 Failing to hold players accountable.


It's ironic, but the energy mantra puts more responsibility on the players, not less.  Players in the D'Antoni system are unable to make excuses for poor play except to say it is lack of effort.  Unlike you, no player is entitled to touches.   

The D'Antoni system features great play enabling confidence in players when they earn it, or career damaging diffidence when they don't.  You could say his accountability system was among the most extreme in the NBA.   The players that earn it, and they all had chances, benefit and perform better than they would in any other system or for any other coach. 

Was Marcus Banks held accountable for his play?  Yes, to the extreme.  Jumaine Jones? Check.  Jalen Rose?  Check.

Now you may want Larry Brown/Isaiah Thomas type day-to-day fickleness and call that great player motivation, but I am not sorry to disappoint you. Making players tentative makes them accountable weaklings.

Put the best players on the floor?  It's hard to argue with Meritocracy, but I know you'll try.

 

 

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 04/30/08 2:21 PM PDT ]

 

I see why you heart Coach D so much. You share his stubborn regard for reality. Let me try just one more time and then move on down the long long list.

When star players like Amare or Diaw are playing with "no energy or passion" in November and December you bench them. In the process you tell them and publically demonstrate that you and the team will not tolerate such behavior. This is a concept explained to me and the millions who have watched the Suns home TV feed by former players Dan Marjerle, Eddie Johnson and Tom Chambers who know a thing or two about playing for great coaches and playing with great and sometimes moody star players. This is not about whether Marcus Banks deserves more floor time then Leandro Barbosa. This is about not allowing Leandro Barbosa to give a half-assed effort in the fall and then expect him to deliver in the spring.

In the Army we called this concept "train as you fight".

Hubris

You say confidence. I say hubris. Yes, you are right that shooters need confidence to shoot. And if you believe that having a team full of confident shooters is the key to a championship playoff success getting out of the first round then I suppose Coach D is your man. You know exactly what you'll get. 

The problem is your man crossed the line and drank his own Kool-Aid . Instead of making adjustments after getting beat in games 1 and 2 he continued to insist that his was the better team. If you think you are the better team why would you do anything to get better. He was delusional and deluded his players and when they realized it they stopped playing for him. The true measure of a head coach is getting his guys to go through a brick wall for him. I don't think we saw a team willing to do that.

I am not buying that D'Antoni wasn't on board with the Shaq trade. Unless he is a brilliant liar then he was right there per his own repeated words. And if he wasn't, he should have insisted against it and made his opposition clear. He at least has shown the balls not to back down from that blunder. Don't disrespect him by calling him a liar.

Here's a thought.

Wouldn't it be cool if D'Antoni's Phoenix Suns played with as much energy and passion as we give to debating D'Antoni and the Phoenix Suns?


[Note by ZonaFlash, 04/30/08 6:39 PM EDT ]

 

Calm down - you're about as hysterical as girl when who's fave Clay Aiken lost on American Idol. 

Given the raw materials on D'Antoni's bench, benching Amare and/or Diaw would have been a laughable show, not a credible threat.  Certainly they teach you military types that only credible, communicable threats count?

For example, when Scott Skiles had similar motivation problems with his players, he would bench the whole frickin lineup and play scrubs who weren't half as good.  The players learned nothing except that Skiles is an @$$4073, and within the season Skiles was out of a job.  Sounds like you are in the hunt to bring Scott Skiles back to the valley.  LOL.

That's also the problem with guys like Avery Johnson - they push so hard all the time that players eventually tune them out.    You want these players to die on the court in November?  It's funny, Pop benches players in November for the exact opposite reason.

Finally, consider the Zen Master.  When Kobe was mailing in and sulking through games in the loser years, did Phil Jackson bench him as he should have in your estimation?  No.  Seek and ye may find the answer as to why.

In conclusion, D'Antoni holds players brutally accountable and they do perform. 

 

This leads to your third accusation:  #3 The Crime of Hubris

After a short recess, I will address respond to this accusation.

BTW, nice quote, but it shows just what a fanblog wanker you are.  What do you know about passion and energy TiVo boy?

 

 

 [Note by Phoenix Stan, 04/30/08 4:13 PM PDT ]

The Black Mamba not bring it each and every game? Say it isn't so.

And btw - I bring the energy and passion every time I step on the (tennis) court and don't you forget it.

Enjoy your recess and be sure you don't throw sand at any of the other kids in your class. If you're good I will bring you cookies and milk.

 

 

[Note by ZonaFlash, 04/30/08 8:08 PM EDT ]

Of all the crimes you've raise, hubris is the one that hits closest to the heart of the matter.  However, this is sports, and the greatest sin in sports is cowardice, not hubris.  The greatest sin is not in going with a winning formula, but preemptively changing the formula and beating yourself.  

And psychologically, better hubris than cowardice.  Clearly, in the past four years, the Suns have overachieved.  The players were never as good as D'Antoni's coaching made them appear.

Tell me the Suns did not overachieve in 2005-2006!  D'Antoni genius right there.  He didn't let the players quit without 3/5ths of their starting lineup gone (Amare, JJ and Q).  And how's that year for making adjustments?

Of course D'Antoni was on board with the Big Gamble.  So what?  This only would show that he realized his team needed to get better.  No hubris there.   I don't see how the Shaq trade is involved in this case.    D'Antoni impressed a lot of people with the way he adapted the team following this trade.  How was that for making adjustments?   Give him a training camp with these guys and he'll impress you again.

You're angry witchhunting lynchmob bloggery is like a jilted girlfriend.  You're upset because you were promised 24K gold but only got 18K gold.  You forgot what it was like to get pig iron like the rest of the league.  Paul Westphal.  Danny Ainge. Scott Skiles.  Frank Johnson.

 

We close with Exhibit A, testimony from Mike Lisboa:

I'm with Broussard ZonaFlash and whomever made the Jerry Sloan argument. If Coach D gets fired, it will be blood for blood's sake. While I don't buy the "job security" line of reasoning (4 to 9 rings gets anyone job security after all), I do think the winningest coach in Suns history has earned the privilege of another couple of years on the sidelines, regardless of the roster. 

While GM D'Antoni is responsible for the Marcus Banks debacle and Boris Diaw's nightly money baths, I think he at least had the good sense to realize that administration was not his strong suit. And I think that ironically the blame for a lack of a decent bench lies with $arver, who opted to sell draft picks on eBay even though, thanks to the NBA's collective bargaining agreement, draft picks are the cheapest way to build a bench.

And I'll even let Kerr/Coach D off the hook for the Shaq trade. Whether or not it was true in the locker room, by all accounts in the court of public opinion, trading Shawn Marion (and wiping the Marcus Banks debacle from the books) was addition by subtraction. Unfortunately, it was the equivalent of patching up one leak in the dam (lack of interior presence) only to cause another (lack of a wing presence).

And finally, as much blame seems to be laid at Nash's doorstep, let's not forget ol' #1. Steve might be the MVP, but Amare is the franchise. The future of the franchise to be specific. The early Jordan-era Bulls had similar issues getting past the the Bad Boys of Detroit and Boston's Larry Legend teams. While Amare is not Michael Jordan, let's remember that it's on him to take his game to the next level (and I think that pride ego will motivate him to take his defense up a notch).

 [Note by Phoenix Stan, 04/30/08 8:10 PM PDT ]

Well my friend, I can't say you have been a worthy adversary but I am glad to see you have come around to see things my way.

You have accepted that G.W. D'Antoni has allowed his own sense of imperfection and greatness to stand in the way of needed adjustments. The man's own words prove that: "I was snookered after game 1 and didn't adjust". Snookered he says. A feeling I am sure you must be sharing.

The list of indictments is still long but since I feel this argument has been won and your concession given,

You quote Michael Lisboa. I will close by directing you to the Suns players post game comments.

That sound you hear from the players is throwing their coach under the bus.
"We were beat by the little things"
"You can't play one way (no defense) all year and then another in the playoffs"
"We were the better team but they were the smarter team"
"We didn't play with energy in game 3"

 

It is the coach's responsibility to have the team prepared. Mentally prepared. Spiritually prepared. Energetically prepared.

If for no other reason that we would never have to hear the "no energy" excuse again. Its time for a change.

I will leave you with this final thought as we close this debate and declare you the loser.

 

Mike D'Antoni is a great coach. He was perfect for the Suns when he came and he achieved a lot. He and Nash fit like a leather glove. But the future isn't Nash. The future is Amare and Shaq in the half-court and the future is going to depend on developing young players over the next two years. No matter how great he was in the past, Coach D'Antoni is not the right coach for this team's future,

Case closed. Time for the people to decide

 

 

___________________________________________________________________

The Star Chamber's proceeding are normally held in secret with evidence against the accused presented without his knowledge or opportunity to respond. We feel that given his stubbornness and isolation from our voices that an open debate in this forum will achieve the same result.

The Chamber's proceedings will be conducted in the following manner:

1) A debate to be held on the front page of Bright Side of the Sun between the prosecution calling for a swift end to the reign of D'Antoni and an advocate defending his tenure and calling for his continued employment.

This debate will be held over the next few days.

2) Feedback from the public at large presented via comments and individual submissions of evidence and argument. The collective wisdom of the people over the supposed experts has been well proven.

3) A survey of members of the NBA Blogosphere to weigh in with their opinions and judgment.

4) A poll of NBA fans to provide their judgment

The process will culminate with the rendering of a verdict from the Star Chamber.

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If not Mike D, then whom? (redux)

I just don’t know which available coach would be suitable for this team. Is there any coach, other than Mike D or Mark Iavaroni who could make sense of this roster, and still be sensitive enough to the needs of the veterans on the squad ?

It’s clear that a screamer/hardass such as Rick Carlisle or Scott Skiles wouldn’t work, nor would a young coach. It would have to be an old-school type coach such as a Hubie Brown.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 29, 2008 11:25 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

DO NOT FIRE MIKE D

Since it’s not like I’m going to be watching a lot of bastketball this summer, I will wage this crusade to the end. D’Antoni should stay. How can we forget the absolutely amazing job he has done the past 4 years with one playoff exit? Are you kidding me?

by UASun on Apr 29, 2008 11:28 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Here is my $.02

Coach is at fault because:

1. He never used his bench properly to develop confidence in those players and also to
spell old players (i.e. Nash, Hill) in the regular season so that they had more energy in the playoffs….I mean, what happended to Steve Nash? I feel like over the course of this season he morphed from the MVP into the knight last left in the temple from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. We NEED a bench, and we need to develop young players, regardless of what coach says.

2. He isn’t the best at in-game adjustments, although over the coarse of the series i think that he got better.

BUT HERE IS WHY COACH SHOULD STAY

1. There’s no one better available
2. He needs time to integrate an old, slow, 7 foot center who cant shoot free throws
3.

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 29, 2008 11:32 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

My two cents

As I alluded to in my fanpost I feel that Coach D will be fired. As for if he should? I’d say a tentative yes.

As an offensive coach he is second to none. He just straight up knows how to make an offensive juggernaut. As an overall coach I feel that he just does not see the big picture and fails far to often to adapt to the situations set before him. In fact I’d have him stay if only as an offensive coordinator.

What this team needs though is someone that can outwit an opposing coach and create a balanced yet very fluid team. As to who that is…..I have no idea.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 29, 2008 11:39 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

OOPS

Coach should also stay because showed so much class in his post-game interview that I literally had myself pondering my previous decision to want his head on a platter. He congratulated the Spurs (after all they did play better)....When the question came to free throws (which obviously killed us tonight) he didn’t sell any of his players short. In fact he thanked his players so much for their respect and patience that it was almost sad to know that he was saying goodbye. I know people hate coach and want a taskmaster to hold players accountable, but ask Pat Riley how that turned out. It really isn’t all his fault.. Yes, he did get outcoached by Popovich, but the gap is closing. And I guess I want to root for the underdog, and watch him succeed.

Coach is learning too. After all, he hasn’t been a head coach for long, and aside from 1992-1993, he has led our team to as close to elite status as the Suns have reached. I know that coaches rarely survive GM changes , which means Coach D is gone. But he will be sorely missed.

So thank you Coach. Thank you for resurrecting the Phoenix Suns. Thank you for sticking with Boris even when the mainstream media burned you for it (no one else cared more in game 5 than him). Thank you for the offensive juggernat you unleashed upon the NBA. Thank you for handling referees betting on games with class. Thank you for trusting your players, even if they didn’t achieve what the fans wanted. And thank you for making me forever a Suns fan. I wish you well in Toronto…

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 29, 2008 11:43 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Like I said...

this is a very sad ending to a very exciting era.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 29, 2008 11:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who could possibly replace him?

Also, he was right about Diaw. His players love him
As for the lack of subs, I agree, he could get better. But who else could he put in? Skinner sucked. D.J. isn’t ready. He played Giricek. Do you want to put in Sean Marks?
Maybe the front office needs to give him some players to sub in first.
D’Antoni has proved himself time and time again. He isn’t perfect – but he’s still one of the best in the leauge. I can’t believe people want his head when he was forced to integrate Shaquille O’Neal into a completely different offense in the middle of the season.
Can’t we at least agree to give him one more year?

by UASun on Apr 29, 2008 11:55 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I concur...

somewhat. I realize that he has hardly had any truly worthy pieces on the bench, and that integrating Shaq was herculean at best. But I just wish that he could adapt more from game to game to counter his opponents. I constantly feel that he stubbornly sticks to a plan and follows it through for far to long (ie starting a hurt Hill). I just want him to take up that adage from the Art of War, in that the ultimate form of strategy is formless like water (read adaptable). Perhaps that is too much to hope for, but i’ll be damned if that man isn’t stubborn as hell.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 30, 2008 12:04 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stubborn, yes

His stubborness is why he was able to bring the most exciting offense in league history to the Suns when everyone said he was crazy. And yes it hurts him as well. He needs to learn to go deeper into the bench and make adjustments more quickly, but the stubborn Coach D has brought more joy than pain and he deserves another shot with this crew for an entire year.

As for Hill, come on you don’t think that guy was a little less than honest when D asked him if he could go. He is a veteran who has experienced nothing but injury all his career of course he would have said anyting to get into these games and for a guy who trusts his players like D does of course he would let him give it a try.

I am no expert at The Art of War but I believe there are also a couple of passages in there about not making desicions in the heat of battle (or shortly thereafter). Let’s give this wound a little time to heal and revisit the issue.

by Dunk it Boris on Apr 30, 2008 12:14 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh

You’re right. Yet after such a painful loss it’s hard not to lash out. I so wanted revenge against those bastard Spurs this year, and to lose to them like this is very depressing. It just makes me wonder just what we have to do to ever get a Championship.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 30, 2008 12:19 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree with you more

I am as pissed as could be. I hate the Spurs and I think that if there was a God we would have beaten them last year and this year, but I am trying to reserve judgement and not rush to hasty desicions in the heat of the moment. I only hope Kerr and Sarver can do the same because I just don’t know what other options are out there for a coach.

by Dunk it Boris on Apr 30, 2008 12:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta go

Despite his many strengths, Mike D’Antoni is a coach who cannot and will not win a championship with this roster, or any roster similar to it. He has shown that over, and over, and over, and over again. There can be no doubt left in anyone’s mind.

So, if you want 50-plus win seasons and a playoff berth every year, keep him around. (Of course, the Suns produce that pretty routinely, no matter who the coach is.) But if you want to contend for a championship, he’s not your guy. That’s why he’s no longer my guy.

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 12:05 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

ARGGG!!!

This just sucks so much I just cant stand it!!!
Are we like what the Bo Sox were? Have we come to that point where we just seem to always be foiled? And if we are the Bo Sox (former) then the damned Spurs must be the Yankees. I pray that the rivalry we have shall not be so one sided as what the Yankees-Bo Sox one was.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 30, 2008 12:09 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

He Should Stay

For several reasons, but the most important of which is that the window is now two years.

In two years, Shaq will be gone, Nash will be gone and his contract is up. The only remaining players under contract will be STAT, LB and Diaw (for now, I have removed the “Doris” label). Where the hell has Diaw been?

I digress …

Bringing in a new coach now will set the Suns back. A new coach will not make them better. If he cannot get a ring in the next two years, give him the pink slip. However, a change now will not bring a ring to Phoenix.

During Game 5, he took more appropriate timeouts, did more coaching, made more substitutions. Is he learning or is he adapting? I don’t know, but I do know that he has grown over this series.

Perhaps it was the tutelage of Steve Kerr. Perhaps it was the knowledge his job was in danger. Perhaps it was an adaptation to his roster.

The Suns still have a chance (a better post will be coming later) if they move to a more STAT-centered offense and let Nash bring up the ball and throw it in the post. It will make it easier on Stevie.

Shaq may have some usefulness yet. Stockton and Malone made some good runs with Greg Ostertag at center.

Look, a change in coaching does nothing to improve the Suns over the next two years. Why take a step back?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 12:10 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're right

We are in for some big changes. I just dont know if they’ll be enough to keep us a contender. The west has changed too much now. The Lakers, NOH and possibly the Blazers are all going to be juggernauts next year. How in God’s great name are we going to keep pace with those young teams? Unless Tucker, DJ or this year’s rookie mature into basketball gods I cannot see us keeping pace.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 30, 2008 12:16 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keeping Pace

Teams that will cause trouble:

Portland gets Oden and a lottery pick.

New Orleans is only going to get better.

San Antonio has another good 2-3 years.

Teams that will stay the same:

Utah still lacks a knock-out punch.

Houston will never have both Yao and T-Mac healthy for more than 12 games together.

Teams on the decline:

George Karl will not be able to keep it together. A new coach will have many, many problems.

Golden State gets a lottery pick, but I see them imploding.

Dallas Mavericks are in trouble. Avery Johnson will be should be fired.

Wildcards:

I said, a long time ago, Kobe should’ve had pinkie surgery because he needs Bynum to win. An astute Laker fan (yes, there is at least one) told me that the Lakers haven’t been healthy since Shaq left so Kobe should go for it. He’s onto something. The Lakers medical staff sucks (e.g., diagnosing Karl Malone’s MCL tear as a “sprain”). Bynum will not return to form next year; in fact, he may have peaked.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 12:38 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Though I have to say that I fear that the Lakers may indeed be back in business, but if what you said about Bynum is right then of course things are different.

As for SA I think that they’ll maintain their power only as long as Duncan can keep chugging, and 2-3 years may be a bit much. Not to mention that though they have a very disciplined team their scoring options (as things stand now) are only threefold: Duncan, Ginolbli and Parker. Of course having a “big three” is nice and all but their old role players aint producing like they used to.

It’s Portland and NO though that should be powerhouses for a time to come. Which leads me to ask again, how do we keep pace?

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 30, 2008 12:45 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

good points

as much as I hate to say it, the suns and the coach stuck with the nash centered / run by suns idea instead of getting a quick player who could handle the ball as the guard. Now with no one developed (or given a chance)...we’re in trouble unless it becomes Diaw, which after the last 2 games, I actually accept.

I keep thinking of the coach saying they’re not here to develop players, I think that’s partially wrong, and with that in mind, I won’t be heartbroken if he goes, let’s face it, his style (7 seconds or less) was already half way out the door. It was a fun run to be a part of, I’ll still be a fan and buy nbalp and watch all there games for a few years. But, I will admit, I’m addicted to winning and if the suns start falling in the 35 or less wins per year column, I could be drifting away from the nba or watching portland…oden is hilarious….I know…I know….where’s my loyalty…..loyalty is for my family…the nba is about entertainment….and the suns have given me another fun year with a tear out my guts ending again. I’m cool…..

by be-the-ball on Apr 30, 2008 12:20 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Developing the bench
I keep thinking of the coach saying they’re not here to develop players, I think that’s partially wrong

No, it’s totally wrong. Without going in a lack of bench over the last three playoff years, let’s look at this year.

No Grant Hill meant that it took until Game 4 to figure out which guy to put on Parker. In contrast, the Spurs had enough guys to keep running at the Hack-A-Shaq. They also had enough fresh guys to keep the pressure on Nash. Duncan, Thomas and Fabio kept up the defensive energy against Shaq and Stoudemire. DJ at 4-5 minutes on Strawberry would have been a good thing. Coach D went to Skinner a little bit more as the series progressed, but always seemed to pull him when he did something right (e.g., help defense getting a block in Game 4, which resulted in The Principal being yanked or a drive to the hoop in Game 5 which also resulted in a removal); for someone who says “the ball finds energy” why didn’t Skinner get more PT?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 12:32 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

keep him

yes he made mistakes, its easy after the fact to see them, but I didn’t see Diaw practically single handedly winning 2 games in a row for us, if we had continued to run the offense through Diaw, we would’ve won….but….hard not to stick with Nash….but, (I’m a huge Nash fan) but have known for months it was time to run the offense through a taller, stronger guard unless we’d kept rondo.

On D’antoni, the players blew this game, not the coach. I think we need more work on defense, and I have to admit, getting shaq (due to hack a shaq) was a mistake for this year.

I can lose a game where the other team hits miracle shots, etc. I can lose a game where we have a bad quarter. But to lose a game where we make so many turnovers and basically fold at the end, that is tough. This Suns team is their own worst enemy. Even though Diaw made a mistake at the end, he was pretty much fantastic the last 2 games. If he could play like that consistently, I’d go as far as saying the team should be his, not Amare’s. I can’t get over how poorly Nash was shooting, I told my wife the only explanation I could think of was this was all about money and the suns players (many of them) had money on the game to lose. It was simply crazy.

Last year I was mad at different things, this year I squarely blame the suns players. Nash lacks the quickness to run the offense through him anymore (in my view). Between the number of turnovers and the missed free throws, I feel sick. We didn’t deserve to win, as heartbreaking as that is to say. I stood and paced the whole game.

I was very impressed with Diaw and Bell again, it seems they are the only 2 players who don’t like golf. Also, if shaq could jump, he’d have scored about 14+ more in points!! That’s either an age thing, and we’re in real trouble as a team next year, or he’ll get even more athletic (recover) and be closer to what he was 4-5 yrs ago. Which still won’t be his laker yrs, but it’ll be good.

ZF, PStan, others…thanks for making this site so much fun to read, be coming back for a week or so I guess….

great idea for the article – the star chamber – :-)

by be-the-ball on Apr 30, 2008 12:11 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

what about?

would jeff van gundy be a defensive minded assistant coach with MIke at the helm

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 12:15 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Good idea but...

I don’t think Sarver can afford both of them on the same staff. And I don’t think either one could handle being second fiddle. Very cool if it was possible though.

by Dunk it Boris on Apr 30, 2008 12:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Van Gundy..

would be a bad choice to have anywhere near this organization.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 12:33 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best winning percentange in Suns history

I know this is very much a what have you done for me league. I know that most coaches don’t survive GM changes and I know that Coach D has his faults. All that being said how do you blame a coach like D for Tim Duncan’s first 3 pointer of the season coming at the worst possible time? How do you blame him for Pop exploiting a horrible rule that allows teams to win on a technicality like Hack-a-Shaq? and how do you replace a coach who is supremely suited to command respect from the team that we have (and will have for the next two years)?

by Dunk it Boris on Apr 30, 2008 12:25 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

we're not judging mike on this season only

He’s got a record now spanning multiple years. He’s got a record that shows, quite clearly, that he can’t beat the Spurs. If you can’t beat the Spurs, you can’t win the west. If you can’t win the west, you can’t win the championship. If you can’t win the championship, you need to start building a team that can. You don’t start building with the guy who couldn’t get you to the mountaintop in the first place.

P.S. And I didn’t even mention the OTHER powerhouses in the west. If somehow, miraculously, this team hadn’t gotten past the Spurs, do you think they would have beaten the Lakers? Lakers owned them in the regular season series, and they’re better now than they were then.

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 12:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

But He did Beat the Spurs

The Suns beat the Sp*rs last year. Stern and Stu kept our All-NBA center and his backup out of Game 5. The lack of a bench, coupled with the Game 5 loss, meant that everyone was too spent to win Game 6. But I assure you, with a full team, the Suns would’ve won Game 5 and been up 3-2.

The main problem with his “system” is that it did not allow for injuries (Joe Johnson, Raja Bell, Amare Stoudemire, Kurt Thomas) or suspensions.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 12:51 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

enough...

let last year go….we didn’t win last year and we didn’t deserve to this year. maybe because
none of us let it go. we all felt it was our year to avenge the injustices of the past. except, those past events are gone, and all we were left with was the same problems that will plague us for years….san antonio beat us this year. and last year. and it’s up to us to stop making excuses and beat the ever-loving shit out of them next year.

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 12:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not holding onto last year

I’m saying that it shouldn’t be held against D’Antoni.

The team was blown-up (Thomas, Jones, Marion) after last year and it should not have been. During the off-season, Sarver lied. He said he would not make any moves that would weaken the team, and then he traded away Thomas. Trading away Jones was okay because we picked up Hill.

However, it was an over-reaction and Coach’s system never got a fair shake (except for the injury thing).

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 1:09 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

this team could have been great if sarver would’ve paid the money, but he wasn’t going to, which ironically will make sarver pay more for a worse team now with shaq, amare, and nash making so much. sarver is just as bad an owner as cuban unfortunately.

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 1:18 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the problem isn't the system...

...why don’t we do better against the Spurs in the regular season? Yeah, I know we won the regular season series this year, but that was the exception. The rule is that they take the regular season series, and then they beat us in the playoffs, too.

At a certain point you gotta stop being a Bickley (“if only X hadn’t happened…”) and look at the evidence. I don’t see any reason to believe that the Suns will EVER beat the Spurs in the playoff as long as their teams, their coaches, and their coaching styles remain basically the same. The Spurs are the measuring stick in the NBA these days, and we just don’t measure up.

Or to put it in one word: scoreboard. (And that’s from a Suns’ fan, not a Spurs’ fan.)

P.S. I don’t think you can “assure” me or anyone else that a fully staffed Suns would have beaten the Spurs in Game 5, or Game 6, or a Game 7, if there had been one. The world of sports is way too uncertain. Just as an example, I was feeling damn good about this team going into the series, especially after they nearly stole Game 1. And they end up taking only one game.

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 3:14 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If youre looking at multiple years...

The case is clearly in favor of D.

That’s what I mean when I’m talking about a tenure that has never seen a losing season and until this year never saw a first round playoff exit. Despite injuries, bad luck and David Stern making up the rules as he goes the Suns are a team that have consistently been in the mix. Let’s not forget all that this team and this coach have brought us just because we had to make a seismic shift to our playing style mid-year. Let’s give it one more shot. If we don’t take it next year I’m with you blow it all up.

by Dunk it Boris on Apr 30, 2008 12:54 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Mike's defense..

he didn’t know how badly Grant was hurt.

I think this team needs to make a number of adjustments:

i) Get a backup for Steve. He needs to be kept under 30 mins/game. His nagging injuries killed us this post season. Stockton had Eisley who was perfect in that system. But don’t draft one, unless he’s really good and is capable of starting after a year. The guy from Portland, Rodriguez would be good or one of the guys from Toronto. They should step up to start in 2 years, after a decent apprenticeship under Steve.
ii) Get a decent defensive backup #4/#5 who can give you some minutes. Skinner is ok, but we need one more useful body on the frontline. When healthy, the Lakers have 7 people who can play in the 4 or 5 spots. We have 4, 5 if you include Boris.
iii) Move Grant to the bench, start Boris at the #3.
iv) Upgrade defensively at the #2 and #3 (Maybe DJ and Alonzo can do this)
v) Redevelop the outer offense (3pt shooting)
vi) Get meaner. a lot meaner.

Moreover, Nash or Amare needs to lead this team more proactively. They need to organize a players only pre-camp and get everybody on the same page and into shape before the pre-season starts (just like Steve’s 1st season). Amare in particular needs to stop talking, step up and decide to take the lead.

The fundamental problem with this team is communication and esprit de corps, which disintegrated over the summer.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 12:32 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Players only pre-camp

They did that this season as I recall. I remember because much was made about Shawn Marion being the only guy who didn’t show up for it.

I don’t know… Maybe I’m more upset about this than I think, but really I just kind of have the feeling that this era has run its course. As much a fan as I am of Nash (and he’s probably the biggest reason I started watching the league again in the first place), I really hate the idea of him languishing out the rest of his career on a team whose time has past. If the Suns are committed to rebuilding around Amare with Shaq as his mentor, then do it, and get a coach and point guard who compliment that. As it stands, we have too many guys who are at their best when the offense runs through them (Nash, Diaw, Shaq, and, of course, Amare wants to be that guy too).

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 12:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If McCallum is right..

and Mike D is out, then I have a distinct feeling Steve Nash might also be gone from this team in a partial rebuild.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 1:02 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think it’s hard to blame d’antoni when the front office has practically given away so many draft picks. then they cut good players because they cost too much, then sign other players to max contracts after a quick panic.

there was never a move to bring in role players that could defend and rebound.

i wonder if sending kurt thomas to seattle wasn’t the biggest blunder by the suns. thomas - who is getting paid too much - could guard duncan and really any player taller than him. that was a squad that put the spurs through a dog fight through all six games, especially in game 5 after the suspensions.

without thomas, the team just needed size and made the move. i think the team could have taken marion for another year, otherwise.

you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.

by kalone on Apr 30, 2008 12:35 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

nash?

i feel like he was so defeated in these playoffs after game one….he never let last year go…and i think he aged about five years this year (no help to coach who continued to play him 33+minutes a game). i just didn’t see that fire or ability in him in these last four games after game 1.

and as nash goes, we go….

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 12:45 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

...the aged five years. Which is why I said in the other post that it may be time to give him a fresh start somewhere else, and bring in some youth to compliment Amare.

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 12:55 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

even though...

i don’t always love the sports guy, i thought a trade for either TJ ford or Calderon (ideally Calderon) and other players/draft picks for Nash, Diaw, and D’Antoni was exactly what would happen. Nash would get to play in Toronto. Coach would be paired back up with Colangelo, and we would be left without a chair when the music stops. I’m not sure this organization is moving in the right direction. But what about Toronto with Bosh, Nash. Diaw, Ford/Calderon, Moon (i.e. Matrix 2.0). Who wouldn’t watch that? It’d be like the Suns of old, until Nash broke every bone in his body trying to take a charge off LBJ

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 1:00 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, if Steve gets traded

I’d like to see him on the Cavs with LBJ. They need a decent PG.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 1:04 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thought about that...

...but who do the Cavs have that the Suns want? I like the Toronto idea because (a) it nets the Suns a terrific young PG who would be unquestionably below Amare on the “pecking order”, (b) it sends Steve back home to Canada, where I suspect he’d love to finish out his career, (c) reunites him with both GM and coach who made him an MVP, assuming D’Antoni were to end up there too, and (d) he’d have a real backup for the first time in his career in TJ Ford.

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 1:08 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would have to be a 3-way trade, but...

I’m not sure Steve really wants to end up in Toronto, despite being Canadian. I just don’t think he’s that sentimental.

What he really wants is a place where he has a decent shot to challenge for a title. I don’t think the Celtics are going to make the Rondo for Nash trade if they fall short this season, despite Danny Ainge’s and KG’s love for Steve.

Neither do I think the Lakers would give up Chris Mihm + Farmar for Nash. Phil Jackson loves the Center by Committee concept too much, and really can’t coach a truly good PG, even though Kobe would love to play with Steve.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 1:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

wait wait wait!

We are talking about Steve getting traded??! That’s not going to happen… It’s not Steve’s fault. He was out of rythm, he was not able to run and therefore create as much as he used to. His job was limited to getting the ball down the court and pass it to whoever was on the post. This guy was one of the best shooters in the league this year, almost led in assists and made clutch shots on important games…I can’t believe you guys are even considering this..

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Apr 30, 2008 8:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't get me wrong.. I don't want it to happen, but...

I see the same thing happening here that happened to him in Dallas, which is he gets all the blame for the teams failure. All I’m saying is that given the way the home crowd turned on him earlier this season, a trade is not as unthinkable as it would have been at the end of last year.

Still, I for one, would like to see what this team can do after a full pre-season together.
IMHO, Steves best effort is still the the best play at the PG position, with all due respect to Chris Paul.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mixed feelings about it

Part of the reason I’m advocating this is admittedly a little bit personal and selfish. Steve is my favorite player in the league (and btw, CP3 is my future favorite player in the league-I guess I have a thing for unselfish point guards. :) ). He’s a big part of why I started watching the NBA again. I don’t want to see him wasting away the rest of his career on a team whose window of opportunity has passed and is no longer designed to put his talents to best use. If the Suns are committed to running the offense through the post going forward-and coupled with the fact I think Nash and Shaq will forever be a fatally flawed pairing due to an utter inability to defend the pick and roll—then yeah, I think it might be time to send Nash to a young team that he can help break through, and hopefully be rejuvenated in the process. To me, it looked like Nash really wasn’t having a lot of fun this season. Not sure if it was fallout from what happened in last year’s playoffs, tension in the locker room, or what, but like someone said in another thread, it looked like he aged 5 years. So, if there’s a deal that puts Nash in a better place personally and makes the Suns a better, younger team in the process then I’d be in favor of it, however much I’d miss having him on my team.

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 10:40 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know how Pippen became an all time great defender..

because of practicing vs Mike.

In that spirit, there is no reason that our bigs shouldn’t be able to defend the pick & roll, given that we have the absolute best pick & roll in the league. If you can defend against Steve & Amare/Shaq/Boris, then you should be able to defend against anyone.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 30, 2008 3:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep!

That’s what I posted in the other thread, actually. I wouldn’t do it for TJ Ford (not as good a trade for the Suns due to injury concerns), but DEFINITELY for Calderon in a heartbeat. That would be a terrific move, that could benefit both teams if D’Antoni were to end up there too. With most of the good PG’s in the West now, Nash would be the alpha dog again in the (L)East, and would have a great chance of making the Finals of Colangelo put the right guys around him.

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 1:05 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

i hope steve stays...

even though he looked horrible this series overally, i just really want him to win a championship for the suns,...but that looks like it won’t be the case.

a line-up of calderon/bell/diaw/stoudamire/shaq doesn’t exactly promote confidence in me yet. , even though i haven’t seen enough of calderon over a whole season to know if he’s worth the risk

swapping nash for ford seems like getting ourself into the same problem, having an undersized injury prone point guard in a league now dominated by larger stronger point guars (not including pussy tony parker)

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 1:12 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

D'Antoni as GM was the problem

I posted this comment over in one of ZF’s posts.

All of the bone-headed personnel moves came from when the Coach was also the GM. I said

He [Steve Kerr] didn’t pay for all those croissants Diaw is eating. He didn’t sign Marcu Clanks to a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract over a midnight buffet in a casino. He didn’t let $5 million get in they way of re-signing Joe Johnson (although, I am still a little bit glad he left—much bigger ego than Matrix).

Then, D’Antoni has little faith in his bench. He created his own problem. Maybe the worst move came when Sarver released Bryan Colangelo. Is the downfall due to Sarver’s reluctance to keep a Colangelo on board? Why wasn’t Mike just allowed to coach?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 12:49 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

What about Pat Riley?

Who’s the most recent guy aside from Pop to win a championship? Who did it with Shaq?

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 12:51 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's not get crazy here

Riley was a great coach and I empahsize WAS. what player would trust him now when he couldn’t even finish this season with his team.

by Dunk it Boris on Apr 30, 2008 12:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all academic now...D'Antoni not returning next year

Here’s the link to the SI story:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jack_mccallum/04/30/suns.dantonio/index.html?eref=T1

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 1:00 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

avery isn't the solution to anyone's problems

even though i was a big proponent of a change after games one and two, i just don’t know. coach hasn’t been fired (officially) yet, and i already miss him. I’m just not sure there’s anyone better. And i’m not sure steve kerr/robert sarver is the braintrust i would believe in.

by ArizonaCactus on Apr 30, 2008 1:05 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swap with Dallas?

Dallas needs an offensive-minded coach to replace Avery (assuming he gets fired too). Suns need a defensive-minded coach in Spurs mold—or at least it sounds like Kerr thinks they do. So, maybe a trade with Dallas, D’Antoni for Avery? Let him scream at our guys for a couple of years?

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 1:01 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Steve Nash

is probably not going to like Avery calling out every single play.

by RealTangiblesGuy on Apr 30, 2008 4:12 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can never get what you want in a single coach

but yeah, maybe you swap to give each time what they’re missing. Not a bad idea, TexSUN

Where doubting Thomases believe

by ZonaFlash on Apr 30, 2008 7:48 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A series of unfortunate events...

has brought us to the place where we find ourselves now. I won’t attempt to list them, but you all know what they are. We can attempt to assign blame, but one thing you guys are missing. The coaching genius of Phil Jackson and Gregg Popovich has dominated basketball in the recent past, winning 13 of the last 17 available championships. Yes, Mike was outcoached. But how many aren’t outcoached by Pop?

The combination of bad GM-ing (first Colangelo, then D’A, now Kerr) with a relatively inexperienced coach (D’A) and the aforementioned geniuses has not allowed us much to go on. Tell me, why do the Utah Jazz hold on to Jerry Sloan? Sheould he be fired? Of course not – he is doing the besst with what he has. He was the D’A antithesis, but since his personell has changed, now they have a more offensive minded team. What if Utah fired Sloan after the ‘97-’98 Finals losses?

Personally, I would fire Kerr. The bold move did not work out, and now we have 2 years with a $20 player who is limited. The disastrous KT trade actually did more to assure this defeat than getting Shaq. Not only do we lose the post defense free throw shooting, and occasional deadeye jump shot of KT, but we put someone out on the open market whom the Spurs wanted.

Give away

Subtract KT from our roster – post defense, jumpshot, free throw shooting
Expose KT to any team (i.e. the Spurs)
2008 draft choice – should be # 23
2010 draft choice with no lottery protection – could be #1

This trade swung the series. Kerr should be fired.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Apr 30, 2008 9:01 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't blame Kerr for the Shaq trade

Yeah, he had to approve it, but if you’ve read the media coverage of that situation, D’Antoni was the guy who wanted to go full steam ahead with it. Kerr was hesitant. D’Antoni brought him around.

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't buy it either

The minute I read that report after the trade was made I knew we were watching D’Antoni’s last season as coach of the Suns. It couldn’t have been more obvious if he had been wearing a T-Shirt that said “I am the officially designated scapegoat”.

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't buy that for a minute

GM is the boss. Is Kerr going to allow some coach who was a failed GM dictate his future? I don’t think so.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Apr 30, 2008 10:01 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Bulls fan here

I was wondering if anyone can tell me how the relationship between D’Antoni and Colangelo is. If he is fired, one would think Toronto is the next ideal choice for him considering their roster and how they have played a similar style to his for 3 years now.

Rusty Longley v 2.0

by Ozzie Montana on Apr 30, 2008 10:19 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

To Bills fan

I would think D’A would be snapped up in a matter of days by someone. He would be perfect for what the Raps are trying to do. BC wanted to fire Mitchell anyway, but Sam surprised him with a great season last year. Dallas iss already talking about him. Coach D could revive Kidd’s career.

'07-'08 Suns: It's clobberin' time!

by Hawk42 on Apr 30, 2008 10:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plea bargain?

From reading Paul Coro, it sounds like if D’Antoni leaves it will technically be his own decision to do so, rather than him being fired.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/04/30/20080430dantoni.html

I guess we can call it a plea bargain.

by TexSUN on Apr 30, 2008 11:04 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a persuasive article/argument

Basically, he’s saying that the Suns are built for speed. You can’t take this team’s personnel and turn them into a slow-down, half-court offense with a stifling defense—no matter who the coach is.

Fair enough.

But part of that argument is built on the fact that Nash has to stay at the point. I’m sure this suggestion will get me hammered, but what if you moved Nash to two-guard and brought in some lesser-skilled player to run the point in more of a half-court offense? He’s still be getting the advantage of Nash’s awesome shooting skills, and his defensive assignments would be slower (albeit bigger) shooting guards.

I know, I know. It’s probably nuts. I’m just trying to figure out how to salvage what we’ve got.

by beatcal on Apr 30, 2008 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm totally for that

problem is, the coach and others view nash as the “2 time mvp” and tend to force the issue of him running things when it’s obvious by playoff results and nash’s turnovers that we need to do this

by be-the-ball on Apr 30, 2008 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mavs fire Avery

You could always go after Avery…

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3375306

Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.

by CMoney on Apr 30, 2008 1:26 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm against replacing D'Antoni

There are a couple of reasons for this:

1) Re: Mike was outcoached by Pop: join the club. Who is out on the market that wouldn’t be outcoached by him? How many unavailable coaches would you take in that matchup, for that matter? PJax, maybe Riley, maybe Larry Brown?

2) New coach would do…what exactly? Put the shackles on Nash and call every play from the sideline? Make Shaq show better on the pick and roll? Reduce Nash’s minutes by playing….playing…umm…who’s over there on the bench….ummm Bueller?

3) Can’t get by the Spurs: Again, join the club. They’ve got a guy who is 10-top all time (ALL TIME), and maybe the best ever at his position as their anchor, and the same core for 6 years now. Their losses have been on a flukey shot (.4 from Fisher) and a single play (to Dallas). Yes, the Suns really could have beaten them this year, and the reason they didn’t was mental mistakes and late-game execution. That could be the coach, but that could also be the fact that they made a trade to their core less than 3 months ago. I think the job D’Antoni did integrating Shaq and losing Marion on the fly is being undervalued. Shaq will be another year older and slower, but I think a training camp and an offseason to address some smaller holes in the roster will yield results.

People here are screaming “blow it up”, but any of you who followed the team during the Kidd years when the Suns could not get by the Lakers will remember how unpleasant it was when they blew that perennial 50+ win team up to start over with Marbury. The Suns current window is 2 more years – until Nash and Shaq is done. Then those salaries come off the books and they rebuild around Amare. Clearly they need to get some help, but I don’t think that help should be sitting in the 1st seat on the bench.

by SoCalSun on Apr 30, 2008 1:43 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Blowing things up now is not the way to go, but changes need to be made. First and foremost being that we need to start molding another pg for the future. Just how are we going to go about doing that? Well we could try and trade up into the lottery, God know’s this draft has a few good pgs in it. Other than that though I dont think we have the assets necessary to try and pry away a pg from another team. Secondly we have got to try and get our rookies (well second yearers) and bench into the games more often. An 8 or even seven man rotation is fine and all, until injury (ie Hill) or fouls screws things up. Hopefully we’ll be sure to avoid getting any more dead weight like Pike or Marks and keep guys like Gordan. Not to mention that getting young guys like Tucker and DJ involved helps prepare this team for the future and we cant afford to go through the next few years without molding some kind of role players for this team.
To sum those two points up I think that we should not blow things up just yet, but we should at least prepare for some kind of transitional period.

As for Coach D…I just dont know now. I’d like to keep the guy if only he can start making good ingame adjustments and develop the team as a whole (ie rookies). For now though it looks like the front office doesnt see eye to eye with him, and usually when that happens something has to give.

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Apr 30, 2008 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Alternatives

I’m all for shaking things up and replacing D’Antoni, but the question becomes who? I can’t name any coaches I would trust to do a better job, Carlisle? no. JVG? no. Larry Brown was possible with a few roster changes but he is coaching Charlotte. So what is the point of replacing D’Antoni just to replace him with someone who is equally or more inept?

parallel universe

by SilverSprings on Apr 30, 2008 3:05 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Hubris

I hear charges of Hubris against Coach D. I find it entertaining that the people who are leveling charges are the exact same who suggested Coach D and the Suns pull a Westphal (circa 92-93). And he did! Only difference being there star (Barkley) bailed out his coach.
Basically, sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it to. No dice

by UASun on Apr 30, 2008 4:32 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Not me my friend

I certainly didn’t call for a Westphal….not everthing on this site comes from one person.

by Phoenix Stan on Apr 30, 2008 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's all been a Sham?
The players were never as good as D’Antoni’s coaching made them appear.

Kind of like Mick did for Rocky?

Mr. T took out the Suns? Maybe Timmeh will retire and show Amare how to finish a game while running in short-shorts along the beach.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 7:45 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

no...not short shorts...

and that means talia shire is there, lets get a hot chick to be in it? krilenko from the jazz would be a good russian / dolph lungren.

I still love this first part by Mick….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fndKRjNYLiY
12 seconds in…ok…maybe talia shire isn’t that bad looking, compare her to the nightmare that superman was with….margo kidder brick for a face….

by be-the-ball on Apr 30, 2008 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I saw "hot chick" and AK ...

I thought you were saying he could play Adrian

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 30, 2008 7:55 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

with the permission / freedom he gets from his wife, he

could probably play both…trying to find a clip from a movie called take down, its a 1979 movie about wrestling, which I don’t particularly like, but this movie was hilarious. Lorenzo Lamas is in it, its about a wrestling team that has a 9 yr losing streak, but ends up (underdog story) coming back and doing really well…there secret with one of the wrestlers is to play ghetto music while he wrestles….my favorite scene is when the coach approaches the guy who’s all crawled up in a corner or something (been a long time since I’ve seen it, obviously they’re holding out on the dvd release as to avoid a dangerous rush in the streets), anyways…the coach goes up to this wrestler, and his name is notoe, the coach asks him why he’s called that. He says it’s because when he was little, his toe got stuck in his bike spokes and came off, a dog grabbed it and ate it, hence no toe…I know…high quality entertainment….it’s likely to be remade by Wil Smith or Tom Cruise any day now

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078358/

by be-the-ball on Apr 30, 2008 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too many guys here using "whom" when they should be using "who"

Y’all should just stick with “who.” You’ll be right most of the time.

by beatcal on May 1, 2008 6:13 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

We're just raising standards here...

please try to keep up.. :)

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on May 2, 2008 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

As Aretha Franklin sings -
Who’s Whomming Who?

Wondering what the heck to do next with my empty summer

by ZonaFlash on May 2, 2008 9:40 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

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