Forget Kobe, Horry is the MVP
I was ready to turn off the TV last night; after all, I was expecting the young Hornets to lose in San Antonio. And then Horry set the screen, West fell on the floor in pain and was taken to the locker room as the crowd in the AT&T Center chanted Horry, Horry, Horry!!
This is playoff basketball, I get that, but is this a coincidence? In another second round, in another potentially series-changing moment, Horry had bumped into another guy with a bad back. Again, the guy with the bad back was an All Star on the opposite team.
I was watching the game on ESPN Deportes and Carlos Morales said the following:
“Somewhere in the World, Steve Nash is watching this game and he’s shaking his head. I’ve seen enough basketball in my life to tell that this is a dirty play. Robert Horry knows that David West has back problems, it has been well documented by the media, and there was no reason for him to set that screen in that specific situation. He leaned forward hitting West in the back, with his head and forearms. I can bet my job that the league will not do anything about this”
And my question is…What if they do? It will not mean anything, Horry is done. This is the only way he can have an impact in the game, he is useless on the defensive and offensive end. If they suspend him, it will not make a difference.
Horry said last year that he is an Old School player, he takes pride in that, he said that in the playoffs, there will be hard fouls and people shouldn’t complain about this. I agree with him, but what happened last year and what happened last night were not hard fouls…they were dirty.
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when they started chanting horry's name
i felt like puking. I knew sp*rs fans were bad but that was a despicable showing last night. and it makes me sick to my stomach that i could be associated with that group of people called human beings
by noonoo on May 16, 2008 11:45 AM MDT 0 recs
In all fairness, we can’t control what drunk ignorant fans do. If you go to our 2nd half game thread at PTR, we spoke out against the fans chanting of Horry’s name. It was bull shit and it’s not what we stand for. But I’m sure the easy thing to do is to stereotype all of us into a group and call us all classless.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 16, 2008 7:42 PM MDT
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Not stereotyping you, CMoney
We’re just stereotyping the drunk, ignorant cheering fans.
I was at the game where Shaq refused to take Timmeh’s hand to get up … and I cheered. So, at least I was only cheering a bad sport and not a cheap shot artist.
Of course, aren’t the PtR guys the ones complaining about Paul’s flops? He flops, too, but … come on.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on
May 16, 2008 9:42 PM MDT
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Yes we have been complaining about his flops. Ironic… I know. But hear me out. The reason we are up in arms about it is because he started this series with 2 dead ball flops. Seriously…. The play had stopped and Bruce walks past Paul and brushes him and Paul goes flying. Since those dead ball flops, all of spurs nation has watched him like a hawk. And some of them have been really funny. Take a look at this one…. But I digress; yes Manu flops. It’s the one part of his game that I’m not a fan of. But in all fairness, this is becoming a league wide issue. Both CP3 and Manu are amazing at what they do. They also share the same bad habit.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 16, 2008 10:26 PM MDT
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I hate it...
Especially Paul trying to bait the refs into calling a tech, he’s done it almost every game of the series. But how can you blame them when they’re being rewarded for it? There needs to be a rule change, that’s the only thing that can stop it.
by hcblankscreen on
May 17, 2008 11:20 PM MDT
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Whatever. Horry is a bum.
Why should Cheap Shot change his tactics? The league approves of his methods. The Sten Gang has demonstrated by their actions that this is the kind of product they want to succeed. The Kings, Mavs and Suns teams of the recent years have produced a beautiful brand of basketball, but it is clear they will never succeed under the current regime.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on May 16, 2008 1:26 PM MDT 0 recs
sick
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on May 16, 2008 1:56 PM MDT 0 recs
Get a grip?
Why can’t you just accept that it was a dirty play? I mean…when Raja pulled his trick on Kobe, did we ever say it wasn’t a dirty play? Did we say that he didn’t deserve a suspension??
I’d say you get a grip..
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on
May 16, 2008 3:04 PM MDT
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How you can compare this to what Bell did to Kobe is beyond comprehension.
by 4Him on
May 16, 2008 3:21 PM MDT
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Maybe for your brain..
Ok…enough with the 8th grade insults..let’s hear you.. can you tell me (using your basketball knowledge) why did Horry set a screen in that situation?
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on
May 16, 2008 3:34 PM MDT
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Nice insult
Look, Horry was expecting Manu to drive baseline, so he set a hard, legal and non-malicious pick. Manu unexpectedly pulled up [after all, he does make unpredictable moves] and threw a pass. If West hadn’t jumped, or if it was anyone besides RH setting the pick, this wouldn’t even be an issue.
You guys need to hear from rosewood on this – he had a good contribution over at PtR.
by 4Him on
May 16, 2008 3:49 PM MDT
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It wasn't a pick -- Horry had no reason to throw a forearm shiver
If West hadn’t jumped, or if it was anyone besides RH setting the pick,
Or if Horry hadn’t cross-checked West …
Or if Horry wasn’t moving (since he didn’t need to move) ...
Or if Horry hadn’t set the pick while West was in mid-air …
Rosewood is allowed to speak here.
Why do Spurs fans keep showing up over here? Remembering the glory days when they used to win series against outstanding point guards?
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on
May 16, 2008 5:15 PM MDT
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lol
Horry was in the process of setting the pick before West jumped.
Why do Spurs fans keep showing up over here?
I came over here b/c I knew you guys would be making somethin’ out of nothin’ just b/c it involved RH.
Remembering the glory days when they used to win series against outstanding point guards?
“used to” isn’t the right wording – they still do.
by 4Him on
May 17, 2008 12:23 AM MDT
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denial.....
it was dirty, plain and simple, for you to deny it doesn’t mean anything to me. Your obviously a fan of winning anyway you can, where I’m a fan of basketball, not winning anyway you can.
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 12:46 AM MDT
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winning anyway you can?
There was already a 20+ point differential in the game – the outcome was already decided. What are you talking about?
by 4Him on
May 17, 2008 3:30 AM MDT
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there's a game 7 and I'm pretty sure David West's health is
a big factor for that game! Your thinking about game 6, I’m thinking about the series…
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 11:09 AM MDT
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I'm just trying to understand
what you mean when you say “winning anyway you can.”
So you’re saying that Horry purposely tried to injure West?
by 4Him on
May 17, 2008 12:22 PM MDT
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no, i'm not saying that
winning anyway you can was not the best way to say it, how about taking advantage of things, whether they’re ethical or not 100% ethical
I don’t think the spurs cheat, actually, it’s pretty clear they’re very smart
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 12:42 PM MDT
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But you said that it was a ‘dirty’ play – what do you mean by that?
You also said that I’m “obviously a fan of winning anyway I can.” On what basis can you make that statement?
by 4Him on
May 17, 2008 12:55 PM MDT
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dirty because horry knew west had a hurt back
and to ….on what basis….your supporting horry’s actions, that’s on what basis, most disagree with you, and based on Horry’s past, it’s clear he can’t help the team much as far as his basketball skills go, but he can help by hurting or trying to get other players suspended. I’m not going to respond to this any further, your wrong,
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 1:54 PM MDT
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I don’t “support Horry’s actions” as there was no malicious intent on his part – he was simply setting a pick and West jumped back into him. So it can’t be a dirty act.
I think you realize as much b/c you keep going back on yourself – saying that what Horry did was dirty, then claiming that he didn’t try to injure West, then saying that he does try to hurt people or get them suspended.
So I’m wrong – whatever. be-the-ball, I think you need to think more before you start typing…
by 4Him on
May 17, 2008 2:39 PM MDT
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You should read your own words
If it was already decided, then why did CheapShot do it at all?
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 17, 2008 11:48 PM MDT
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Just b/c a game is basically decided doesn’t mean that the players in the game shouldn’t play hard. The bigger question is: If West has a bad back, then why was he still in the game at that point?
by 4Him on
May 18, 2008 7:07 AM MDT
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Remember
That this happened 2 minutes into the 4th quarter, that’s 10 min left to play…the game was far from over.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on
May 18, 2008 10:26 AM MDT
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You're down by 21
with 10 min left. One of your star players has an injured back and you’ve got a do-or-die game 7 coming up. If you’re the coach, you’d leave him in the game? I wouldn’t, and I know that Pop wouldn’t. To do so is just asking for trouble.
by 4Him on
May 18, 2008 11:53 AM MDT
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Enough already
Panama, this guy is not worth arguing with. His god is the Spurs and he bows at whatever they do. Let’s talk about baseball.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 18, 2008 2:09 PM MDT
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LOL
Whoa, hit a sore spot?
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 19, 2008 6:13 AM MDT
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beisbol
They had a chance, but with their early season swoon, I think they lost the fans, wh are already thinking Cowboys. If I have a baseball team, its the Dbacks. I like the fact that a pitcher my age can throw a shutout.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 19, 2008 7:44 AM MDT
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That was
a GREAT effort by Randy….good to see him bring it again even though I think outings like yesterday’s is going to be the exception moving forward.
Of course as the weather warms his back should feel better and as we saw his early innings are going to be much more worrisome then if he can get going and loosened up.
He certainly needs to stop trying to get strikeouts and focus on locating the ball in the zone and let his defense work for him. That will keep his pitch count down.
The snakes are going to have a real log-jam when Doug Davis comes back. I imagine Mad Max will go back to Tucson and leave Edgar in the long relief / spot starter role and then they will likely match Max’s rotation with Randy’s so they can be ready to bring him up as needed.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on
May 19, 2008 9:03 AM MDT
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Oh and 9-0!
Are you kidding me? Winning 9 starts in a row to start a season.
Amazing and historic.
He’s on a streak now where you simply can’t afford to miss a Webb start (next one is Wednesday against the Fish)
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on
May 19, 2008 9:11 AM MDT
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dirty
It clearly was, and Horry knew it.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 17, 2008 11:45 PM MDT
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Check out this image

Tell me the move was un-intentional. Why, exactly, does he need to drive his arms and forehead into West’s back?
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on May 16, 2008 2:27 PM MDT 0 recs
JSun
thanks for the link…for CMoney and 4Him to argue this really says who they are….need I say anything else…I don’t think so…
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 12:50 AM MDT
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Bullshit.
Don’t question my character becuase I see a play differently than you. Byron Scott, the head coach of NO, even came out and said he didn’t think it was a dirty play so you can stop right there. The NBA looked at the play and ruled that it wasn’t dirty. JVG and Marc Jackson, and numerous others in the media have said that it wasn’t dirty. Yet you question my character. Get off your high horse and quit being so narrow-minded. Was is an intential hard pick/foul? You damn right it was. But was it dirty, no.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 17, 2008 3:40 PM MDT
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Intentional for sure
I saw this last night too and was SHOCKED that JVG and Jackson called this a regular normal play. Clearly Horry leaned forward and hit West in the back.
You can argue that is hard nose basketball and part of the game just like whacking at Kobe’s pinky but don’t tell me its not intentional.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on May 16, 2008 2:36 PM MDT 0 recs
is it bad of me
to not want Mark Jackson as the coach of the Suns because he defended Horry? Because the first thing that came to my mind when he defended Horry was “I do NOT want him as the coach if he’s going to defend something like that!”
by noonoo on
May 16, 2008 10:01 PM MDT
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Typical Spurs
Is anyone surprised that Horry would do something like this? I wasn’t . Everything the Spurs do is intentional.
by TwinnerA on May 16, 2008 5:02 PM MDT 0 recs
yep...
it’s important to note…the spurs are very clever and dirty…not to be confused with stupid and dirty. Often just the word dirty is used and some people might tend to guess we’re thinking stupid also, which isn’t true. Classless comes to mind pretty quick though, between the hack a shaq, and this, it seems every year the spurs give many reasons for fans to get sick to their stomach. Words I thought I’d never type….come on CP3!!! win!!
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 12:53 AM MDT
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So...
I don’t think this was a dirty play, and this is why:
first of all, I don’t think its legitimate to reference past actions of Horry’s or make some nebulous psycholgical projections. What I think is this:
Manu had the ball and looked to be driving baseline.
West was collapsing on the ball.
Horry was setting the pick far before West jumped into the air to try to delfect the pass.
It is completely legitimate to set a screen to keep West from a) getting to the ball or b) protect Manu from going baseline, which its completely reasonable to think he would do.
Everything up until that point seems pretty clear to me, and its what I’m going on.
After that the Horry leans into him and puts his forearms into his lower back and his head into the center of his back. A lot of people are claiming that putting your forearms into a guys back is “dirty” but in actuality it happens almost every time down the floor for a post player. Its not that I don’t think Horry has it in him. I just think its giving him too much credit for being diabolical or conspiratorial.
In the way last year, obviously he meant to foul nash very hard, but people act like he intended to draw guys of the bench. I just think it would be shocking if he were that calculated. But in this instance everything he did seems completely legitimate in terms of the development of the play.
by Kid_Dynamite on May 16, 2008 6:01 PM MDT 0 recs
Exactly
Guys that foul was not dirty. If you replace West with any other player out there, no one would be call that a dirty foul. You guys are way too sensitive.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 16, 2008 7:53 PM MDT
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What's up C
We are not sensitive, we are just discussing a basketball play here.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on
May 16, 2008 8:19 PM MDT
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Not much Panama, just getting ready for this game 7. How is Suns nation doing sans D’Antoni?
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 16, 2008 9:14 PM MDT
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your way too insensitive...
you ever notice how in your posts your quick to make negative comments on other people posting here that sound very much like a direct attack…..
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 12:55 AM MDT
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Really?
Well please point these out to me so we can talk about them. Seriously, find my comments that you find “negative” and re post them so we can discuss this. I don’t trash talk, I don’t gloat, I don’t make fun of others for their opinions. Again, I think you’re being way too sensitive.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 17, 2008 12:24 PM MDT
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its a waste of time
this is supposed to be a phx suns blog, not a spurs gloat and come over here blog. If you don’t gloat…what are you doing on this board?
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 1:56 PM MDT
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The reason it's a wast of time
Is because you won’t find any comments from me where I talk “negative”. And the entire purpose of this thing called a blog is to talk with others. I actually enjoy engaging other fans in conversation. Where is the fun in always talking to like-minded individuals? I like to debate and hear from a dissenting voice. Again, I challenge you to show me instances where I have gloated. Go find my comments where I’ve been gloating. No seriously… I’ll wait.
Superman wears Manu Ginobili pajamas to bed.
by CMoney on
May 17, 2008 2:21 PM MDT
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Come on guys..
Let’s just concentrate on the debate. Let’s not take anything personal.
Spurs fans: you have to understand our aprehention, a lot of people come in here to troll and not to have an intelligent basketball discussion.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on
May 17, 2008 2:48 PM MDT
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And here's your problem
Horry was setting the pick far before West jumped into the air to try to delfect the pass.
Why, then, if a solid screen was set, did he need to throw his body weight, forearm and forehead into the pick?
Putting a forearm into someone’s back or bumping someone is far different than striking with a forearm (true, it wasn’t quite a “strike” but I couldn’t think of a better word to described how it was more than simply jostling for position).
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on
May 16, 2008 9:45 PM MDT
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He was simply bracing for impact. And his forearms actually ended up in West’s butt area.
by 4Him on
May 17, 2008 12:29 AM MDT
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LOL
That IS funny. You can’t defend Robert Horry. He’s the luckiest mediocre player in the history of the NBA. I’m sure you’ll try to defend Bowen kicking at the heels of a player going up for a layup. and Manu for grabbing Raja’s balls 30 feet from the play, or Parker leading with his knee into Nash’s groin.
Horry is known for this. The Nice guy Robinsons have turned into this. I liked David better. But of course David and his graceful art form couldn’t lead you to a championship by himself. Probably because the league doesn’t want that kind of team to win. So Pop took a different tack. And here we are. I would not be proud of rings won in that fashion.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 18, 2008 12:01 AM MDT
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I hate to jump into this fray, but I feel like I want to for some sick reason. (Maybe because game 7 is taking so friggin’ long to get hear).
Before last year’s SA-PHO series, Horry was not “known for this” he was known for clutch shooting and winning championships. One play, and the resulting fracas, (not to mention one of the worst decisions that Stern has ever made) transformed him into cheap shot Rob. I understand if you guys are still pissed off about what happened, were the situation reversed I would be too., But if you look at this play, it’s really hard to make the argument that Horry was doing anything malicious.
Perhaps he did know West had a bad back, and that was the reason for the screen. I would not indict him for that, if you are on a basketball court, then you should be able to handle a normal amount of contact that can be expected to take place during a game. I don’t think there should have been a foul called on the play, just like I didn’t think there should have been a foul called on Tyson Chandler when he set the high screen on TP during game 5.
by pollackj on
May 18, 2008 1:40 AM MDT
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I was just about to respond to Hawk, but your post says just about what I wanted to say. Look, I don’t like what Horry did to Nash last year – it was cheap and dirty. But before that incident, what has he done in his 16-year career that would make him “known for this.” And don’t try to make this play on West into something it’s not.
by 4Him on
May 18, 2008 7:17 AM MDT
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Throwing a towel
in his coach’s face? Not exactly a high character move by Mr. Horry either
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on
May 18, 2008 9:15 AM MDT
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Forgot about that one
but that’s not the same as malicious conduct toward opposing players, which is what we’re talking about.
by 4Him on
May 18, 2008 9:55 AM MDT
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disrespect for authority
It is about disrespecting thr game and disrespect for authority. What do you think his sort of opportunism tells kids? (I don’t want to play for this sucky team, so I’m just not going to put out). That is actually worse than a few isolated plays, as you call them.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 18, 2008 2:13 PM MDT
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No, you’re trying to change the debate now. No one is saying that RH is a man of extremely high character. But he does not disrespect the game and he doesn’t have a history of disrespecting authority.
by 4Him on
May 18, 2008 10:59 PM MDT
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how about extremely low?
So you ignore the incident with Ainge? when Horry was in Phoenix, he basically blew the team off and made himself such a cancer that we had to trade him to the Lakers, unknowingly putting him into perfect position to get 3 more rings handed to him.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on
May 19, 2008 6:18 AM MDT
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A single isolated incident over a 16-year career doesn’t mean that he has a history of disrespecting authority.
by 4Him on
May 19, 2008 7:28 AM MDT
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jeebus
i think every professional sports team in the history of sports has had an ugly moment like the “horry” chants. it happens in basketball, it happens in football, it happens in baseball when a guy gets beat up. it’s practically routine in international soccer.
any big group of people is going to be full of assholes and idiots. when beer is around, it’s going to be worse. and, maybe, just maybe, sports tend to bring out more assholes and idiots than other things.
it was disgusting. there is no excuse.
but to say horry went out to hurt somebody, or - even more ridiculous - that the spurs planned to hurt west, is just fucking nonsense.
first of all, if the spurs wanted to hurt west, why wait until the end of a possible elimination game? seems like if they wanted to put west down, they would do it toward the beginning of the game. when west went down, the spurs were up by 21 and the game was over.
second, i’d like to see just one basketball game where a team doesn’t set a pick exactly like that. horry did not move into west. west came to him. he leaned forward because he’s a fucking crusty mummy and didn’t want to break his hip falling down.
and it’s not like he headbutt west in the back. jesus chirst.
did horry ever intend to set a “soft” pick on west? probably not. then again, why would he? why would any basketball player try to set a “soft” pick, a move that requires the player to hold their ground?
the truth is, west was playing recklessly, stumbling backward out of position, and no one on the hornets communicated that horry was planted right behind him.
all that said, i hope west is absolutely 100% on monday. i don’t want another year of people making excuses.
you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.
by kalone on May 16, 2008 9:06 PM MDT 0 recs
What are you reading?
but to say horry went out to hurt somebody, or – even more ridiculous – that the spurs planned to hurt west, is just * nonsense.
Did anyone on the web - or here - say that Pop put a hit out on West?
Please do not create straw man arguments.
Horry took a shot at West in an area in which he knew West was vulnerable. Horry himself takes pride in playing “old school” (which, in his case, is to loaf around when he’s not on a team loaded with All-Stars and HOFers so as to get on a team with All-Stars and HOFers and ride their coat-tails).
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on
May 16, 2008 9:49 PM MDT
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create straw man arguments? what about the rest of what i said?
look, i have seen that written on blogs, and it’s not an unusual comment from what i can tell. when TwinnerA wrote that everything the spurs do is intentional, i took it as that. in hindsight, i was probably wrong.
doesn’t change the fact that horry never extended his arms or head in an attempt to hurt west. he leaned into it, which every pro basketball athlete worth anything will do. and because he was probably scared of david west hurting him.
you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.
by kalone on
May 16, 2008 10:10 PM MDT
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kalone
You were doing just fine before the “scared of David West hurting him” part.
Look, this guy is smart, he is a veteran an he knows what he is doing all the time. Now, i’m not saying that Pop sent him to hurt West, as you mentioned, it doesn’t make any sense. But, there was no reason to set a screen in that specific play. Allow me to elaborate on that:
If you look at the replay, Manu never intended to drive to the hole, he had already jumped (with both hands on the ball) to make the pass. If the screen was set for Manu to drive, the target was supposed to be Jannero Pargo, who at the time was defending Manu. But this does not apply to the play, since Manu had left Pargo way behind.
West’s intentions were not to deny the baseline to Manu but to steal the pass. After West jumps, Horry sets the screen, which means Horry already knew that Manu was not going to the basket.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on
May 17, 2008 12:36 AM MDT
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horry was set before west jumped. if manu breaks past mopete, why would horry set a pick for him? he would set a pick for the other hornet trying to make a play on the ball.
you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.
by kalone on
May 17, 2008 7:14 AM MDT
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pargo i mean.
you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.
by kalone on
May 17, 2008 7:20 AM MDT
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"I don't want another year of people making excuses"
you know…that’d only bother you if you felt guilty, otherwise you’d let it roll right on by….nice language too, I’ll mail you some soap
by be-the-ball on
May 17, 2008 12:58 AM MDT
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grow up, powderpuff.
you ain't a beauty but hey you're all right.
by kalone on
May 17, 2008 7:11 AM MDT
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nice..name calling
your classy….hm…let me guess, that’s your nickname that your firends call you and its all you can think of to say…
i bet your on a new orleans blog smelling up that place also, we’re going to need some air freshener around here

