Reload or Rebuild meets the Short Bus
The resounding answer to beatcal's seminal post, Reload or Rebuild, falls directly on the choice regarding who will drive the Suns' Short Bus. Having myself just returned from a week-long depressive stupor, one name is shockingly and glaringly absent on the Suns list of broadcasters and peon assistants: Avery Frickin Johnson.
Why is no one talking about him?
That the Suns let D'Antoni walk away so easily and so amicably is a story that, while floors me, is one for another day (Monday, in fact, watch for it). However, the depressing parade of n00b candidates the Suns are trotting out is nothing short of bizarre.
For example, would anyone be talking about Thibodeau if Big Gift hadn't come to the Celtics? And what of these other assistants? To coach a veteran team that is looking to win now? Please.
What are the stats on a rookie coach leading a veteran team to ultimate glory? Why are we talking about handing the keys to our short bus of millionaire players to proverbial 15 year olds on learning permits? Why are we not getting a Mario Andretti or the best, most experienced driver on the market? Why are we not even talking about him? Why am I writing this whole commentary in rhetorical questions?
If we intend to keep Nash, Shaq and Grant around, delude our season ticket holders into believing the window is still open, there is only one coaching option, and for some reason, that guy doesn't even make the short list?
The case for Avery is simple. No one around here likes the annoying Little General. But he did get the Mavs past the Spurs. Think about that. He did get his team to the Finals. He tasted glory, even though his team fell short. He learned from Pop and from Nellie. As a player he has a ring. He has been a successful head coach - more than any of the other candidates can say.
That he was unceremoniously booted from the Mavs, I think says more about Mavs sideline puppeteer Cuban than it does about Avery. And so what about Nash and Avery possibly struggling to get along. They can work it if they want to win. Is there something between Kerr and Avery we don't know about?
If you really think the team can reload for one more shot, then Avery is the only choice. He can bring a tough defensive message. He can command respect for the duration of the window. We only need him for a few years, then we can hire that n00b coach to go with a rebuilding effort.
If not Avery, then let's not pretend to be serious about next year. Trade the senior citizens and start building around the 25 year olds.
[Note by ZonaFlash, 05/21/08 5:12 AM EDT ]
I just visited Ridiculous Upside's liveblog on the lottery. Looks like the Bulls got the first pick, Avery was on hand and people are talking Avery->Chicago.
That sucks so bad. Start rebuilding folks.
1 recs |
24 comments
Comments
I think no one's talking Avery...
...because his big “downfall” was the same as coach D’s; he didn’t adjust and he got out-coached when he had the better team. They both had the same problem with developing a bench as well, while coach D never really strayed from the eight-man rotation, Avery significantly cut his bench’s minutes as the season went on.
I feel you’re partially right about Thibodeau, but from all the chit-chat he’s not even a front-runner. I don’t remember House playing with that defensive intensity when he was with us, same with Allen, and Pierce never shut down Lebron like that before. He’s got the defensive player of the year to build his system around, but he still architected the leagues best defense with some bad and mediocre defenders.
As far as all these relative unknowns we’re looking at, I’d say Porter’s my favorite, but I know next to nothing about everybody we’re looking at. Assistant coaching for a King’s team with a similar look and feel as well as a veteran Detroit team with a great bench he could hopefully know what type of approach to take (but honestly I’m just talking out of my ass here).
by hcblankscreen on May 21, 2008 4:55 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I just thought
That he would probably lean towards the bulls first and after the lottery I’m sure now that he would pick the bulls before you guys (if hes offered both jobs).
Shaq:"The kobster, he's an assassin" Answer for who should be mvp.
by ldeep on May 21, 2008 10:20 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
No thanks
As little experience as he has, I take Porter over Avery. Porter is more of an unknown although he does have two years head coaching to learn from if anything bothered to research those Bucks teams (and I would hope the Suns staff would do that).
While with the Little General you know what your getting and it isn’t good. I think one main reason he got canned in Dallas was b/c of his inability to let his veteran PG play and his need to over-control. Kind of like Skiles. In fact, I think Avery and Skiles are very much alike. Both had early success with talented teams but their style didn’t really last.
I would much rather see what Porter can do. He could be like some of the other solid coaches / former players from his era. Nate McMillian. Mo Checks. Even Fine Hair Guy in Sactown has done well.
Taking a chance on a lesser known (and less expensive guy) like Porter vs. a known control freak like Avery is a no brainer to me.
And btw – I wouldn’t be so sure the Bulls want to go right back to the same style of coach they just fired.
OTOH, I do hope he gets a job somewhere just so we don’t have to see him on TV talking next year.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on May 21, 2008 11:00 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I love Avery
His voice and press conferences are awesome. I don’t understand how you can not like that.
Anyhow.
About his coaching:
I think he got fired because he was adamantly against the Jason Kidd trade which was the correct opinion. He’s had as much success as any other team out there. He’s beat the Spurs.
I mean, you can always make the argument that a coach from a successful team only looks good because of the players (Phil Jackson, Popovich, Pat Riley), but at least he’s had some success.
Of course, all this is irrelevant. We’re not even interviewing him.
Sven to Benfica! Please, please, please!
by rosewood on May 21, 2008 11:18 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
No to AJ
ZF, you are not correct when you say Avery was fired mainly because of Cuban’s goofy meddling. All the fans wanted him gone. The players tuned him out. He was not only against the Kidd trade, but once it happened he could not figure out how to make it work. his isolation-dominated offensive schemes should have been altered. You think you can’t run with Kidd, Terry, Howard, and Nowitzki? He never even tried.
He wore out his team with the constant high intensity and manic mantras. The 2006 team would not have beaten Phoenix without Raja and KT injured, not to mention STAT. Once they did, Avery presided over the most shocking collapse in NBA Finals history to a so-so Miami team with one superstar, an aging and defensible Shaq, and a team of role players. His response was to cook up an offense based almost exclusively on isolations and to create a frantic defensive atmosphere that smoked the league in the regular season, but was doomed to fail in the playoffs. Also, for those who point out that AJ got them past the Spurs, this was only accomplished through an inexplicable brain fart by Ginobli at the end of game 7 (Why doesn’t Manu make those mistakes against us?).
I’m basically saying I am not sold on AJ as a big-time coach. Look at Westphal’s record. But the players tuned him out also.
I do not think any coach that loses his players like that should be on our list.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on May 21, 2008 11:35 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Chicago
MikeD should have gone to Chicago. Imagine now the 7SOL offense triggered by Derrick Rose, with Deng and Gordon on the wings. I think Tyrus Thomas would flourish in a D’Antoni system.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on May 21, 2008 11:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I will slap John Paxson
if he drafts Derrick Rose. The Bulls have needed a post scorer for the past nine thousand years.
Has everyone forgotten how retarded talented Michael Beasley is? Like he’s the most talented post scorer since Elton Brand?
Rose is great. And if the Heat or Sonics had the No.1, I could maybe see the pick, since they’re both in huge need of a point guard and have PF depth.
The Bulls don’t have the same issues.
Beasley: The only choice.
Sven to Benfica! Please, please, please!
by rosewood on May 21, 2008 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
I don’t have a dog in this fight but Matt at Blog a Bull makes a strong case for Rose. I tend to agree based on the argument that Beasley isn’t big enough to dominate defensively like a Duncan or Oden and I don’t think you can discount Rose being a local kid either.
And didn’t the Bulls trade Elton Brand after two years….along with LaMarcus Aldridge and Tyson Chandler. Not a great record with the big men there which I guess makes your point about
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on May 21, 2008 12:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rose over Beasley
If I had the choice between an Elton Brand and a an athletic Jason Kidd who can shoot, It’d be the latter every time.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on May 21, 2008 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Experienced?
Porter has had about the same amount of years as a head coach as AJ. I don’t know about as an assistant. I think the point is that the years are within shouting distance of one another.
I agree, though, that he would seem like a logical choice to take over this veteran team. It would only be for two years, though. It would be “win now” hire just like the roster.
Press conferences would be great, wouldn’t they? Do you think Sarver would have to hire a Smeagol-to-English translator?
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on May 21, 2008 12:12 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Smeagol-to-English translator
that’s so mean… but funny as fuck
by noonoo on May 21, 2008 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what its worth
from a Mavs fan who supported Johnson, but was glad to see him go.
First off, the numbers dont lie. His resume is one of the best out there, but it is misleading. He HELPED take this team over the “Spurs” hump we could never get over in previous years. But after that, and since, he has had a track record of getting his team to a point, and then out-coaching himself.
Avery coach’s his team, the same way Pop did when they won the championship their first year. He wouldnt go away from that inside-outside game, and had a hard time changing it for his personal he had to work with. There have been all types of reports saying that Westphal was brought on this year to help open up the offense, yet Avery never listened to him.
For all the reason’s many of my Suns fans didnt like the coach with three first names, the Mavs fans didnt like Avery for almost the same exact reasons… Just replace defense, with offense. Does not playing and let younger guys develop ring a bell? Stuck in his ways type approach sound familiar? Clashes with the FO remind you of anyone?
Both had their control freakish issues, though I’d argue D’Antoni was a little more soft spoken than AJ was. But if Avery was brought to phx, would it make your team better? Defensively? Absolutely, but compared to what MD had done with the defense before, anyone who is brought in could make that claim. It’s everything else though that would drive you guys nuts. He runs his players long and hard in practices, which for guys like Hill and Shaq, might not go over well. He has a small-man syndrome about him that when combined with Shaq’s and Amare’s ego, will not clash well AT ALL. His vision of how the offense should be run is not going to play to the best of your teams capabilities, unless you like watching Nash feeding the ball to Shaq down low, and watching Hill and Amare in Iso sets.
One of the the guys closest to the situation in Dallas, Mike Fisher, who runs a blog which url is reportedly owned by the Maverick organization, wrote an article about Avery Johnson’s possibilities of going to Phx. It’s a great read from an outside perspective, if you would like to know why Avery WOULDNT be a great fit there. Here are a few highlights of it…
Steve Nash has a voice in that organization, just as Dirk Nowitzki has a voice in Dallas. Nash and Nowitzki are best friends who listen to each others’ voices. So when Nash is pitching in by doing his due diligence on coaching candidates, and he calls Dirk to find out what went down in Dallas. … well, you get the picture.
Avery Johnson deserves a tremendous amount of credit for building himself into an NBA force. He would not be in a position to collect $4 million-a-year paychecks (from Mark Cuban or elsewhere,coaching or not) without his feistiness, his combativeness, his ego. But it’s that Michael Irvin philosophy all over again: "A man’s greatest strength is also his greatest weakness.’’
At any rate, best of luck to you guys… I still think Del Harris is the best fit for you guys… if you can lure him out of retirement.
by Toddy on May 21, 2008 12:23 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Great contribution
You are welcome to come here any time. Thanks for the “insider” post. That is exactly why Kerr has not even bothered to interview AJ.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on May 21, 2008 3:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Paul Westhead
The other name I see no one talking about is Paul Westhead. He is considered one of the masters of the Fast Break offense and has two championships in both the NBA and WNBA with the Lakers and Phoenix Mercury. He would be someone I would be considering…
by SRP on May 21, 2008 3:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Loved Paul Westhead...
...at Loyola Marymount. The only time I cared about non-Pac-10 basketball during the season. Then, I watched him embarrass destroy ignore the concept of “defense” with the Nuggets. Perhaps not the guy for this team.
Yes, he got a ring with the Lakers, but a year and a half later, he was replaced by Pat Riley. And yes, he got a ring with the Mercury, but his last couple go-rounds in the men’s basketball world have not been pretty.
No, thank you.
And, um, isn’t the srp handle hanging in the rafters somewhere around these here parts?
by Mike Lisboa on May 21, 2008 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coop!
First off, I’ll agree with all those painting Avery with the D’Antoni brush-their weaknesses appear to be very similar, and Avery looks to be wound a little too tight for the Suns. I think he would be a disaster for this team with this personnel-the Suns need a coach who will do the work in practice, and then get out of the way while Nash runs the offense at game time.
Secondly, I’m a bit surprised that Michael Cooper’s name hasn’t made the list, unless he’s not interested in coaching the men’s league any longer.
Given what we’ve seen from the Sarver/Kerr style of “keep your friends close” management, I’m guessing Hornacek is going to the the hire. He’s apparently been on their radar for a couple years now, he’s got ties to the organization, and he’ll come cheap as a rookie coach to boot.
by SoCalSun on May 21, 2008 4:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Candice Parker vs Amare
Perhaps he’s enjoying the potential of his current young start over ours
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on May 21, 2008 5:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess if we're looking for some defense...
we shouldn’t be hiring out of the WNBA.
by hcblankscreen on May 21, 2008 8:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
To refocus the discussion
Think in context of Reload or Rebuild. Is there any coach you would say “Reload”?
For me, either it’s Avery or its “Rebuild”. I don’t see any rookie coach or retread out there that I would hope to make this frankenstein team work.
There’s lot’s of reason why Avery wouldn’t work, but if not him, can anyone available make the current roster work? I say no.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on May 21, 2008 8:29 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Probably Right
I don’t know enough about the other guys, but from what I know of the candidates, I’d have to agree that anyone but Johnson would be a “rebuild”
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on May 21, 2008 9:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't the Suns HAVE TO Re-Load?
There is no rebuilding with Shaq/Nash/Hill still here. Shaq’s not going to give away $40M, so this is the core of the roster for the next two years.
Here’s a plea to Doug Collins.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on May 22, 2008 9:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

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