Impostors Abound
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 12:12 PM MDT
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I have watched the recent slew of coaching introductions and have dry heaved with disgust.
Listening to Vinnie Del Negro and Terry Porter talk like sensible versions of D'Antoni on offense and respectable versions of Greg Popovich on defense just makes me throw up in my mouth.
These guys are neither Mike D'Antoni (or Rick Adelman) on offense nor Greg Popovich on defense.
They have proven nothing about their imminent genius on either end of the floor nor the ability to motivate players to execute those obvious plans.
It is entirely obvious to speak as they have in their interviews and PR campaigns. What else should one say, "I have learned absent defensive strategies and bad habits from D'Antoni and slothful offensive and poor shooting techniques from Greg Popovich"?
Plainly, you can't duplicate genius simply because you never walk into the same coaching conditions. It's not clear to me that emulating Greg Popovich necessarily works without [1] being Greg Popovich and [2] having Tim Duncan and that team.
That association with genius would impart much genius is as good a plan as any, but ask how the last team to suppose such, Memphis, and it's D'Antoni impostor, Marc Iavaroni are doing. Iavaroni was supposed to be D'Antoni + plus defense, remember? How you doing, Memphis?
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Mike D'Antoni's genius is/was
a) to understand what kind of player Nash was/is, and to completely trust him to make all on-court offensive decisions.
b) to understand that speed beats size, as John Wooden once said. You can make up significant size deficiency defensively, if you have the speed advantage.. ie. Shawn Marion.
c) to understand that defenses take time to get set, and that if you can get a shot off before that moment, you’ll get a high percentage shot.
d) having 4 good 3 pt shooters will keep the defense honest (in the case b fails), and open up the floor.
e) for all the cliches in the game, the ultimate truth is that whichever team scores more points, wins.
Mike’s failing was:
a) he didn’t trust anyone other than Steve on the floor.
b) short rotations are ultimately self-defeating.
c) he couldn’t get Boris & Amare to co-exist effectively on the floor.
d) he doesn’t understand that rookies matter, even if you don’t play them
e) didn’t understand that while you can make up wrt size defensively, you can’t do it completely, against all teams..
To be honest, I’m very satisfied so far with Terry Porter as head coach, even though the jury is still out.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 13, 2008 12:44 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm fine with TP too. Who else were we gonna get?
I’m just saying it’s easier to talk success but being able to deliver on it is why so few coaches have staying power and success. I found the introductions of both coaches uninspired and weak.
Good assessment on D’s genius and failings, Pliny.
a few quibbles for the sake of quibbling….
2c) He did get more out of Boris than most people thought possible. Too bad Boris then got $45M out of the suns….
2e) I think he understood the size thing which is why he sold his soul for Shaq. The thing was he was trying to win with what he had, with everyone is looking for size, so he had to get the most out of what he had, which he did. No grammar police on that please – I know I know! =)
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell of a recap Pliny
TP is just saying all the right things…I know he hasn’t proven anything but he has to start somewhere. I know I wouldn’t like to hear the new coach say things like this:
“Well, lets see what I can do”
“If D’Antoni couldn’t…you have to give me time”
“I hope Shaq and Amare listen to me, if not, I don’t know what I’m going to do”
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on Jun 13, 2008 1:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the trouble with quibbles..
I get your points. I actually think Boris is a good player, but one whose contributions are maximized by the on-floor rotation. I was just saying Boris tends to play blowfully when he and Amare are on the floor together, and really well when he starts.
As for the Shaq trade, that happened because we had to trade Shawn. If I had been the GM, I would have traded Amare for KG at the beginning of the season, kept Shawn and Kurt, and tried to get an extra mobile big and a couple of defensive players at the 3 and 2 spots who could shoot the 3.
Imho, the jury is still out on Shaq. He’s going to have a summer to get mobile, and the team is going to have a preseason together. You can bet your ass that the Suns view this postseason as a totally blown chance, and there’s no team, imho, that we couldn’t have beaten in 7, including the Celtics, had we been just a little more coherent when it counted.
I like our chances next year, I really do.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 13, 2008 1:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I like your beliefs, I really do!
No way the team could have afforded KG at 24M and Kurt at 8 along with Marion.
Marion for KG, on the other hand, and Marion in Boston, sure would look pretty sweet right now, even being another $4M further over the tax than we already are.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 2:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah.. there's that wrinkle..
we could have traded Amare + Boris for KG + draft picks, and maybe have some money left over for Kurt..
It would have meant that KG would have to play the 5, and Shawn the 4.. but from a chemistry point of view, this team would have been solid particularly with Grant.
We would have had a starting 5 of KG, Shawn, Grant, Raja and Steve, with Kurt, Leandro, DJ, Tucker and the Bearded Wonder off the bench.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 13, 2008 2:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Man...
I just got goosebumps with that lineup!
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on Jun 13, 2008 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot..
we would still have had Marcus Banks too (who played well for a few games when Steve was out), which brings me to a weakness I forgot to add, and that still applies.
While we’re looking for someone to spot for Nash, I think it’s important to ensure that the backup has his own set of plays/schemes, rather than trying to fit within Nash’s system. It’s as impossible to ask someone to play like Nash, as it is to ask someone to play like Shaq or Jordan.
Moreover, having a different scheme allows the Suns to present a second strategy at the point, forcing the other team to adjust on the fly. I’m not averse to the Suns speeding things up even more when Nash sits.
From an offensive point of view, this Suns team is going to be very interesting this year.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 13, 2008 5:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Offense has changed so much
its not longer dependent on Nash pushing the ball are creating out of his pretty little head…
finding a PG now will be easier and in fact I would be inclined even in this new world to have a PG that can defend first, spot of shoot second and create third in order of skill sets. At least as long as Steve is going to be around.
You could even argue that LB could get another shots at the full time back up PG spot since he can shoot and score. I guess though you would have to also believe that Porter and/or Porter’s system can make him defend. Or you could hope DJ is ready on the flip side of LB. Where’s that machine that puts too people together into one?
DJ + LB = very good PG.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 14, 2008 4:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon, our offense still stalls when Steve sits.
But all I was really trying to say was, given whatever skill-set the backup point has, when he’s running the offense, the sets should be tailored to his strengths, rather than trying to recycle Steve’s sets.
The only backup pg in the last 20 yrs you could say was a reliable, if lower powered, clone was Howard Isley when he was backing up Stockton. Actually, reusing Stockton’s sets probably helped him, because he was a far better player as a backup than he was as a starter.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 14, 2008 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
scary how much we still need Steve huh.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 15, 2008 4:42 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah a like it fine.
shakes fist at Marion
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 4:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
ZF, you seem so angry...
How can you not be giddy as a schoolgirl on a day like this? Bask in the afterglow of Kobe and the Kobette’s wetting the bed! Err, might want to get a towel though, it was a big one!
by SoCalSun on Jun 13, 2008 2:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Not angry! Moody, cranky maybe. Not really. I’m in full acceptance mode, but I can only be happy by the success of my team, not the failure of other teams.
Fakers could win or lose and I don’t feel much about it. No matter how much they choke, it doesn’t escape me that they are back and that they are where we couldn’t get to with the current team.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Howz your summer these days? =)
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not forget
That D’Antoni lucked into the Suns job a few weeks into the 03-04 season when Frank Johnson was fired not so much for a losing record but b/c his pecker was wandering too much for the puritanical Colangelo…
NO ONE thought D’Antoni was a genius when he got the job.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 13, 2008 3:17 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
D'Antoni was the exception that proves the rule.
4QFJ diddled a major sponsors wife!
Clearly not good Suns business not matter what your (lack of) faith is.
[1] And FJ wasn’t doing much with the team anyway, so no big loss there.
[2] D’Antoni was an internal hire – he had continuity with the players and MGMT. They had a decent sense of what he was going to be like.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 13, 2008 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greatness Does Rub Off
Genius may not, but high qualities do.
When you are looking for a job/career, look at the leaders and decide whether you’ll want to be like them, because if you stick around long enough you will be like them. It works both ways.
When I was younger, I didn’t make much of the comments that you could “learn” from being around someone and now I think it’s an invaluable piece of advice.
Iavaroni had absolutely no support. I don’t know how much of it was him (partly, at least) and the management (the Gasol Heist as a prime example). He may not be as good of a coach as D’Antoni, but he wasn’t given a fair shake.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Jun 14, 2008 8:37 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Mike D'Antoni is a pioneer
and deserves recognition as such.
He demonstrated that the Suns brand of speed-ball is as distinctive and viable an approach to the game as any other, including the triangle, the 60’s Celtics rebound and outlet fast-break.
Of course, he needed Steve Nash, but Don Nelson (who is considered by many to be the preeminent basketball mad scientist) had Nash for years, and couldn’t quite achieve this level of perfection, even though we saw flashes of it with Dallas.
Mike and Steve’s greatest achievement, when all is said and done, is that others will approach the game as they do. We’re already seeing it, with many teams playing a speed-ball style, and also with a number of Nash-style point guards in the league, including Paul, Ridnour, Calderon and others . That, btw, is something Magic, Bird and Jordan never quite achieved.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 14, 2008 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. A great summary.
Don Nelson is too mismatch oriented to have developed 7SOL.
Of course, a confluence of events came together to create the Suns attack that perhaps included the perimeter hand-checking rule change, but still, you are absolutely correct, Pliny!
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 15, 2008 4:38 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
True,
But D’Antoni is more genius than a bastion of high qualities.
From D’Antoni, you learn:
[1] Short Practices
[2] Laissez-faire player management (bad)
[3] Putting the onus of responsibility on the players (good)
Iavaroni didn’t get a fair shake, but he should be SHOT, DRAWN and QUARTERED for not sterring Gasol to the SUNS instead of the freaking Lakers.
After all the Suns did for him, thanks a lot, Benedict!!!!
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 15, 2008 4:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
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