Full French or the Boy from Brazil?
by Mike Lisboa on Jun 19, 2008 1:53 PM MDT
12 comments
It seems to be a foregone conclusion that either before, during or shortly after the draft, the Suns will be down a prominent foreigner. Either Boris Diaw or Leandro Barbosa will be traded in an effort to either move up in the draft or land a veteran who can step in and contribute pronto.
My feeling is that it's a tale of two upsides, which is odd considering we're talking about two players going into their 5th year as NBA veterans.
The Argument: We've seen the best of Leandro Barbosa. He's never going to have the vision to run the point and is best suited as a slash and shoot 2 guard that isn't going to provide much on the other end of the court. As a player, he's plateaued and there isn't much more to expect out of him. This isn't necessarily a terrible thing as he excels at getting up the court, can blow past just about anyone defending him and is a dead-eye from beyond the arc. He's also a steal at $5 million a year.
Boris Diaw on the other hand remains an enigma. We've seen flashes of him excelling at all 5 positions. In the playoff series versus the Spurs he proved he's capable of playing lockdown one-on-one defense. He has excellent court vision, often to the detriment of his own scoring output. But when challenged to be the man on offense, he's delivered. The problem is that he only does any of this to his potential... what? 40%, 50%, maybe 60% of the time? He also tends to struggle with Amare Stoudemire on the court. A big problem considering STAT-Rat is considered to be the future of the franchise. And in addition to a bloated contract (unless he delivers on all that wonderful promise), he's been know to show up to camp a little bloated himself.
So, going with the wisdom of crowds we recently used in the Ridiculous Upside draft (in which we freaking STOLE Danilo Gallinari), what do you think, BSOTSers? Would you rather see 3D or LB back next season? Or both? Is the #15 pick good enough?
I know there are other factors in such a poll such as what we could get in return for either, but since that's all speculation at this point, I'm approaching it as a straight up "either/or/neither" proposition. And, of course, please discuss your choice in the comments below.
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I don't want to see
neither of them leave. With the right coach, they will both play better. Both of them are young, they have fresh legs which is something that we are lacking.
Barbosa can put up 30 points any given night and Boris (when playing well) can do everything on the court.
They need a coach, not a fan (D’Antoni), who can hold them accountable. Barbosa needs guidance, that’s all.
I would not trade them for a prospect
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
by PanamaSun on Jun 19, 2008 2:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with PanamaSun
A lot of draft picks never achieve the performance level of either Diaw or LB. If we do not like Diaw’s contract nor his bench performance, neither will most other teams.
On the flip side, I think the talk of either Portland (#13) or NY (#6) trading down or out of the draft is unlikely.
Fans love potential. Trading a potential star in the lottery for (very good) rotation players just isn’t sexy.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 19, 2008 2:38 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Smoke and mirrors
Kerr should just come out and say he wants to dump 14 mil in salary. He can trade for a bunch of has beens and save a bundle. If you want to walk the ball down the floor, what do you need LB for?
by TheTruthSquad on Jun 19, 2008 2:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
If one must go...
I’d try to shop Diaw, mostly because of his contract/performance ratio. This is really key, remember how good Tim Thomas looked for $500k, and now how bad he does at $6 mil? Trading Diaw for an impact rookie could be a good move.
On the other hand, I liked some of what I saw of running the offense through Diaw as a starter, and the idea of moving G.Hill to the bench to reduce his minutes is appealing. The offense looks like it’s going to get re-vamped, so perhaps that basic structure could work well, and they could figure out how to get Diaw, Amare, and Nash working together on the floor at the same time.
by SoCalSun on Jun 19, 2008 3:26 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted to trade Barbosa, but...
...after reading some of the comments, I’m leaning toward standing pat and rolling the dice on #15. If I had more confidence in either Alando Tucker or DJ Strawberry to work their way into the rotation (Summer League, y’all!), I’d feel better about not trying to trade either up in the draft or for another veteran player. For me, so much of next season depends on deepening the rotation.
by Mike Lisboa on Jun 19, 2008 5:07 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It really is a case of "grass is greener" on the other side.
Unproven draft pix versus proven rotation players.
Wondering what the skip-2-my-loo to do next with my empty summer
by ZonaFlash on Jun 19, 2008 5:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
If I knew more of what we’re gonna get out of DJ and Tucker next year (or the #15 for that matter) then i’d know just who we need to trade or even if we’d need to trade.
Overall though I’m leaning toward trading LB, for two reasons. Firstly we can get a pretty decent deal for him, unlike what we could get for Diaw. Secondly I’m of the opinion that LB, though great in the regular season (usually), kinda of tapers off in the postseason and becomes very one demensional. I understand that Diaw is frustrating even on good days, but I’m convinced that with a coach preaching accountability that 3D will start coming around. And please dont crucify me should I turn out to be wrong.
Now of course Porter’s coaching could really change how both these guys play, or maybe not. Yet if the right deal comes along I’d be willing to move either LB or Diaw, but the front office guys need to be sure to get just such a right deal.
"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War
by Turambar on Jun 19, 2008 6:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way
There’s no way you trade either of these guys for just a pick. If either goes (and I think LB is more replaceable the Boris) then you have to get back a veteran starter or #1 backup at PG or Center AND a 1st round pick.
Trading either just to move up in this draft is silly. Heck, I would trade Grant Hill for a top 10 pick before I trade LB or Diaw.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Jun 19, 2008 6:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Not for only a pick
Maybe a package of good picks over several years…maybe…probably a pick and a good player like PStan says.
by RealTangiblesGuy on Jun 19, 2008 7:05 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
NOT a good plan
Trading legit contributing role players for a potential good rookie is a horrible idea. I wouldn’t even want to trade either one of them for the #1 pick. The risk is just too great…
I’m afraid Kerr is feeling the too much pressure on him to make the team win so he’s just trying to look as if he isn’t sitting around on his ass all day. I think he is trying to convince people how hard he’s working. A trade, in and of itself, is not a ‘good’ thing… The trade must be a right fit…
Does LB lose steam heading into the playoffs? Probably, to a certain extent
Does Boris half-ass half of the regular season games? Probably
But, LB is lightening quick, something the Suns want to hang onto now with a very old team
and Boris showed in this year’s SA series he can play tough D, and facilitate the offense against a tough Spurs team. To me, that shows improvement. He stepped up his game when the Suns needed it most. Obviously, it wasn’t enough. But he clearly put out the effort. Sure he’s over paid, but much like the rationale for Orlando paying Lewis 20 mil. a year, the Suns had to overpay to keep another team from signing him a year later when he was a free agent. That’s just part of the business.
What else I don’t understand is what specific draft picks/ veteran players are we talking about getting? It seems the general consensus here is at least that these 2 players are reasonably well-liked and respected, so how can we offer them as hypothetical trade bait without knowing the fish the Suns are trying to catch?
by willthehawk on Jun 19, 2008 8:48 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
What about this?
I don’t think you can keep two guys who have been known to go missing for a week or two at a time. Boris is harder to get rid of, though, because of the size of his contract. So, why not get rid of LB and start grooming Boris to become the point guard/point forward of the future? He can spell Nash during the next couple of years, and get comfortable with the idea that his primary role once Nash is gone will be running the point. He’ll have mismatches on both ends a lot of the time, so he won’t have to work too hard. That should suit him. When he and Amare are on the floor at the same time, Terry Porter draws up this play on the white board: “Boris gives ball to Amare…forever.”
So, we play Boris like a Penny- or Magic-style BIG point guard, but we don’t expect him to score as much. Could he handle that?
by beatcal on Jun 20, 2008 3:34 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
A smart move...
A smart trade can put us right back at the top of the West. Trading either for a lottery pick had better be high either NY at 6 or Seattlependinglawsuits at 4. The rumors Paul Coro brought up with Martell Webster or TJ Ford and respective picks coming in return sound good.
The problem I see with Diaw and Barbosa- especially within the team culture D’Antoni had- was any night anyone could rightfully claim to be the star yet no one was held accountable like a star. As Kerr has mentioned before, teams need pecking orders. Role players have to know their roles and perfect them (See: Bulls, Chicago; Spurs, San Antonio). We need more scrappy role players- guys with fire and some nastiness. Granted I did like Shaq trade but midseason is too late for a move like that. The team needs another shot blocker/energy big- which should be available in the draft. A backup point and shooting will most likely come via trade or free agency. If they can get it all in one smart deal- pull the trigger.
Both players have their warts but I think Barbosa is the most tradable. Diaw is really versatile and I have a feeling the new staff will focus on his aggressiveness. Maybe the trade rumors will also spark some fire too. I love how Barbosa can change a game but he’s not good on defense and disappears in the playoffs. While I hoped he would be the Microwave part 2, he may have peaked. I’m eager to see what happens.
by Hersey on Jun 20, 2008 3:34 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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