Gimme' some Skin!
by willthehawk on Jul 13, 2008 10:17 PM MDT
21 comments
So, while initally I was quite excited to hear the Suns drafted an 'energy' big man, after all, those intagibles have always seemed to bite the suns in the ass...
But, after thinking about the Suns roster some more, I was wondering, do we Remember Brian Skinner?
He played tough D, hustled for rebounds and blocked shots, but suddenly now the Suns are ignoring him in favor of playing Robin Lopez.
Don't get me wrong, Loopez has a lot of good traits...but why draft for a hustle Center who doesn't have an offensive game :
WHEN YOU ALREADY HAVE ONE FOR CHEAP?!
It seems to me if energy big man was what the suns wanted, they ought to have simply played B-Skin more down the stretch.
It wasn't as if Skinner's game tapered off during the season, he just didn't get minutes
It's like the Suns are stuck in this half-ass rebuilding/ 'still a contender' mindset and it is stupid. One the one-hand, the Suns aren't going to trade any major piece because 'we can still win it all', but on the other the Suns are drafting a guy who is a VERY similar player to someone the Suns already have, in the hopes of getting younger. There isn't room in the rotation for BOTH Skinner and Lopez, so I really don't see any short term 'net gain' from the signing.
We are just ditching one servicable, offensively challenged, hustle big man for another. That won't put us over the top.
For next year, the Suns don't need Lopez. They have Skinner. If they want to contend they should have nabbed a shooter/ wing player which is what we need. Or at least drafted Lopez and then gone after a good wing player with agressive free agenecy, and they haven't.
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Brian Skinner is not...
a legit back-up center, Robin can be.
by hcblankscreen on Jul 14, 2008 1:45 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we should definitely keep the (fifty)Four-skin
by rsavaj on Jul 14, 2008 9:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Size matters.
Also, B-Skins is only 6’ 9”, and Lopez is a 7-footer. That’s a pretty big height differential when you’re talking centers. Add to that that Skinner is 32 and it’s completely understandable why the Suns made this move.
Paying an additional $700,000 for a back-up center who is 3 inches taller and 11 years younger than the previous back-up makes pretty good sense for the Suns. Lopez’s upside is far greater than that of Mr. Skinner. Good call, Phoenix.
by Mike Lisboa on Jul 14, 2008 9:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
But to what end?
Sure 3 inches is a lot (...well, not for some things…), But Skinner was a good rebounder and shot blocker, and post defender. He did all the thigns a 7 footer is supposed to do.
I’m not damning the pick completely, but in the short run, Lopez doesn’t make this team noticeably better. Not enough to get us to the finals
by willthehawk on Jul 14, 2008 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I get this logic
1) Who would you rather have the Suns taken? There weren’t any players who were going to make a larger difference this year than Lopez. There were better long-term prospects (Speights, Batum, Anjica, Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan), but Lopez was the most ready now big man at 15. Perhaps, we could have drafted Courtney Lee, but he would be behind Barbosa and Bell at the 2. Other than that, there were no “contribute now” wing players left on the board.
2) By drafting Lopez, we don’t have to resign Skinner and can instead spend that money on a veteran backup PG (it looks like Lue), which we also need.
3) Even if we had Skinner still under contract, I don’t understand why having 4 capable big men as opposed to 3 is a bad thing.
4) As far as signing a wing player, I believe we’re still in the market for Gordan, as we should be.
Now if you want to say that the Suns should just face facts, realize that their window is closed, and draft for upside, I’m cool with that. I was all for Batum or Speights. But if you want them to still be trying for a championship then, once Rush was off the board, Lopez was clearly the correct pick.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jul 14, 2008 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look
1. I would support the Suns trading the 15, to get a vetran role player from another team. It’s just Lopez is no more ‘ready now’ than Skinner is. Thats just a fact. Look at the summer league game today: in 27 minutes, Lopex got 5 boards. Tucker, AND DJ got 6… guards outrebounded him. AND some guy off the bench got 5 boards in 12 minutes. Basically, Lopez isn’t some defensive rebound machine, he’s a mediocre rebounder at best. Skinner is more prepared right now.
2. right, and by trading the pick we could have resigned Skinner (for less then we’re paying lopez, all he would get is vets. minimum) and then recieved a backup point/wing player in the trade
3. It isn’t bad to have a crapload of them, of course not. But it doesn’t push us over the edge to just have more of the same thing. If what we needed to win the championship last year was a guy like Lopez, the Suns should just focus on having Skinner play more. Having both is inefficient. Extra money could be used to get a 1,2,3
4. Well, understandably . For me though, I’m just sick of the Suns signing all of these guys to one year minimum deals, and then hanging them out to dry. Skinner proved he was an effective back-up center, and would take a minimum deal again. So why do the Suns suddenly say “Oh wait, all we need is another backup center and we’ll win it all!” and they get a guy like Lopez who is certainly not appreciably better than Skinner, rather than working out a trade to improve the roster’s weaknesses.
by willthehawk on Jul 14, 2008 11:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade the 15?
It’s very easy to say they should trade the 15th pick, but it is much more difficult to find a trade that both makes sense for us (in terms of value, need, and numbers) and makes sense for another team.
And since your idea here is to trade the 15th pick for a “veteran role player,” I’d have to say that we’re probably not going to get decent value. Or if we did get decent value, that role player would likely more money than Lopez and push farther beyond the LT threshold. And, of course, trading the pick would likely not serve our arguably greatest need for this off-season, which is to get younger so we don’t completely ruin the team for the future and risk losing Amare.
The Suns are in a complicated position right now. The team is too good to scrap unless they’re willing to endure a brutal PR disaster; and to make matters worse, even if they were willing to scrap it, their assets aren’t really set up for easy, worthwhile disposal. No one will take Shaq this year; Hill would retire if we traded him; Amare is absolutely off-limits; it’s unlikely we could get equal value for Nash; and trading Barbosa and Diaw actually works against rebuilding in a way, since they’re our young players.
But the Suns are likely also, no matter what they do (of things they could actually do), not good enough to win a championship. There’s not a “veteran role player” in the league that can change that.
What they have to do is build for the future while maintaining the present, so that when all our vets walk away gracefully after the 09-10 season, we’ll have some kind of base to work with.
Skinner, who was useful, can’t contribute to this plan. But by replacing his salary with Lopez’ we have a roughly equivalent player who can contribute now and is also much younger, much larger, and has much, much more upside.
You’re looking at this in too much of a binary way: it isn’t either a) go for the championship or b) start rebuilding. The Suns have almost no choice but to choose c) which is to do both, and Lopez fits that plan just fine while Skinner does not (though I will go to my grave saying we should have picked Batum or Speights).
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jul 15, 2008 3:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree, Mike.
Not to mention that Skinner was unplayable when his foul shooting descended to Shaq level. I also remember him turning the ball over a few times. Don’t get me wrong, Brian is a nice player to have. But Robin Lopez is as least as good, and there may be some offensive surprises, whereas Skinner is tapped out offense-wise.
I agree with Mike. This was a good pick for the Suns. Can you imagine how this board would be moaning and groaning if we took Koufos or Hibbert?
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jul 14, 2008 10:36 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
But, If we still think we can compete while Nash is around, how does Lopez help?
And come on, you can’t say that right now “Lopez is at least as good”
He averaged like 4 boards a game in college. Over an ENTIRE GAME
Skinner nabbed 3.6 last year in JUST 12.6 MINUTES
Lopez isn’t ready to be better than SKinner just yet. This move doesn’t make them better right now
by willthehawk on Jul 14, 2008 1:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhh...I don't know what you're looking at or what you're thinking...
Robin averaged 5.7 rebounds and 2.3 blocks in 24.5 MINUTES (if you didn’t know college games are 40 minutes long) and that’s with another 7 footer under the basket.
by hcblankscreen on Jul 14, 2008 5:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, duh
and that’s 5.7 rebounds and 2.3 blocks against clearly weaker competition than what he’ll face in the NBA. What kind of stats are you calling him to get this season?
by willthehawk on Jul 14, 2008 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
look, heres a quote about the summer league game tonight with lopez
This is from rsavaj about the Summer league game Lopex played tonight vs. Huston:
Meanwhile, aside from a block and a good dunk, Lopez looks slow on D and limited on O….plus he has a large total of 5 rebounds in 31 mins.
Meh.
by rsavaj
by willthehawk on Jul 14, 2008 11:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not calling for him to put up monster numbers...
But he will be a better back-up center than Skinner.
Oh, and you quoted stats wrong again. He had 5 rebounds in 27 minutes. Along with only 2 blocked shots and 19 points with 9/11 FT shooting. He may have looked slow but what 7 footer doesn’t look slow when they get switched out by the 3-point line? Playing within an actual defense during the season he’ll look a lot better and also be in better position to pull down more boards.
by hcblankscreen on Jul 15, 2008 1:29 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you imagine how much happier we'd all be
if we had taken Mareese Speights?
Or, no, wait. That’s just me.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jul 14, 2008 11:30 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Speights
Do you really want another big guy who doesn’t work hard conssistently and won’t play defense?
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jul 14, 2008 12:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one way to put it
Or you could say:
“Yes, I’d like the player with excellent size, athleticism, and superior offensive and rebounding ability who also was, statistically, the most efficient player outside of Kevin Love and Michael Beasley. I think he’s better than the ‘defensive specialist’ who doesn’t get defensive rebounds and has no offensive game.”
I’d say it that way.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jul 14, 2008 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
willthehawk....
hey, on skinner, I liked him to, but, i think your missing one HUGE point, d’antoni isn’t around anymore, the is kerr and porter’s team now, it wasn’t kerr and d’antoni’s team before, it was more d’antoni’s clearly, kerr / porter will hold amare accountable on defense and it’s clear they both wanted lopez, and drago, and got both, I’m excited they got who they wanted.
Hopefully skinner will get some time (15 min a game), he’s still on the roster yes?
by be-the-ball on Jul 15, 2008 2:04 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Lopez can play
i think that people are forgeting the fact that lopez was the secondary option for stanford. If it hadn’t been for his brother, his stats would be MUCH greater then they were. He put the interests of the team ahead himself and this bodes well for what he will be called upon to do for the Suns. We shouldn’t read too much into one summer league game. After all, the Knick were undefeated in the summer league last year and we all saw how they turned out when the games started to matter.
by tbn4 on Jul 15, 2008 8:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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