The Sonics: Why David Stern deserves to be vigorously sodomized with a rusty wire brush.

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 3, 2008 4:17 PM MDT Comment 15 comments

Of course, I'm not suggesting anybody should actually do this, but the Sonics move is a complete disgrace, and I can't think of a more suitable punishment for big Dave for not stopping it.

But lets be clear here.. the balance of power in the NBA has always been between owners and everybody else. Remember, the other owners approved this move too. While David Stern might behave like a low-budget power-mad pocket Napoleon, his actions, while often self-serving, have mostly been to satisfy the whims of the owners, and he leaves no stone unturned in service of that imperative.

The Sonics move to Oklahoma City, is at the end of the day, a result of the city of Seattle failing to sufficiently kiss Stern's ass, while at the same time showing that they in fact love the Mariners and Seahawks more than the Sonics.

Any scrap of respect I had for Stern is gone after this move and the heavy handed way he's handling the referee scandal, which by the way is complete theatrical bs. Why would you hire an ex-general (and one who has been more involved in r&d and logistics than combat, btw), unless you wanted a person in charge who would be, to all intents and purposes, and by virtue of his status, immune to any questions of integrity? It's a sham.

The irony of it all is that if David Stern had decided to be completely open wrt the refs, worked sincerely with the union and players on issues such as the non-leather ball and rules changes, had given Oklahoma an expansion slot (imho, a 32 team NBA ( 4 eight team divisions ) would offer an improved and more competitive product.), rather than allowing a relocation, and had actually tried to work with the city of Seattle to help make the Sonics a more profitable franchise, the NBA would be in a really good position for stable future growth.

The Celtics and Lakers, this year, have given him an opportunity which imho he should not squander, and that is to reorient the marketing of the NBA as a whole towards teams, rather than towards individual stars. It's what the MLB and NFL orgs do, as well as every single soccer team in Europe, and protects those teams from fluctuations in revenue cause by players retiring, getting arrested or other boneheaded behavior. Stern needs to forget about expansion into Europe or Asia, where basketball is at best a second rate draw, and focus on optimizing his opportunities here.

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Such a punk

Stern can burn in hell for all I care. That arrogant punk needs to be put in his place, i’m just not sure if the owners have it in them to kick his punk ass out

"Troops in desperate straights know no fear. Where there is no escape, they stand firm; When they have entered deep, they persist; When they see no hope, they fight." Sun Tzu The Art of War

by Turambar on Jul 3, 2008 5:54 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

No Comment

The injustice is just so painfully obvious.

When someone gets hit by a bus, what is there to say but, “That poor bastard just got hit by a bus!”?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 3, 2008 7:03 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but it's different if the guy in charge is driving the bus.

With this move, Stern has lost all credibility wrt issues of corruption and graft in the NBA.

Given his manipulations behind the scenes on Oklahoma City, nobody is going to believe him when it comes to the ref problem, no matter how much he protests.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 3, 2008 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very little pity

I don’t really feel bad for Seattle. They didn’t want to pay and by the time they decided to do it it was too late. For better or worse, public funding is pretty much standard for sports stadiums and Seattle had already funded the football/baseball stadiums. If Stern fights to keep the Sonics in Seattle under these conditions, he’s more or less saying that all NBA cities can treat their teams like second class franchises.

Seattle will get a team back when they play ball, and they will play ball next time. They got cheap and the NBA is way too big of a business and Stern way too shrewd to let that shit go down.

I guess maybe it’s sad for the fans, but if they weren’t aware of a) the nature of the politicians they elected and b) the nature of the game they were watching, then they’re just horribly naive.

The NBA is full of very not nice and greedy people from Stern all the way down to the players. It just so happens that they can put on a nice basketball show as well. If you can’t handle that, go watch little league.

Purchasing my Dragic jersey

by rosewood on Jul 3, 2008 9:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Seattle wasn't cheap.

On the contrary, the local govt. were very much prepared to upgrade Key Arena, and the surrounding area at a total cost of $300 million, including owner participation.

However, Clay Bennett decided he didn’t want to be in Key Arena, but instead wanted a brand spanking new $500 million facility in Renton, which is out of the city south of town, close to SeaTac airport. Even then, the Seattle local govt didn’t balk until they asked Bennett how much money he was prepared to pony up for the new facility, and he refused to give an answer. No city would deal under those conditions, even though they actually have the tax revenue stream specifically to pay for it.

You’re right in that no-one involved on the Seattle side, from the local govt to Howard Schultz is completely innocent or without blame, but it’s clear that Bennett’s consortium bought the team with the sole intent to relocate, with Stern’s blessing, despite committing, in contract, to make a sincere effort to keep the team in Seattle. This is the fundamental point.

But having lived in Seattle (and worked about 5 blocks from Safeco/Kingdome), I can tell you that Seattle’s sports fans are as devoted to their teams as any city’s fans. If Bennett had truly and sincerely wanted to make the Sonics a business success in Seattle (and Schultz didn’t since he was a vanity owner), he would have had no problem with the city. There’s plenty of land near Safeco (which is in a much better location than Key Arena and Renton) to build a new basketball arena, and Bennett & co could probably have gotten the Seahawks and Mariners to participate with improving infrastructure.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 3, 2008 10:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Numbers

Seattle/King County coughed up 340M for Safeco. They coughed 300M for Qwest. Ballmer from Microsoft hoped they would convince Seattle to pay 150M i.e. half of his 300M proposal.

Stern and Bennett said no because 1) Key Arena is too small and can’t get bigger; it was already renovated in 1994 2) that’s still only a 150M dollar offers. Half of what the other teams got. And 3) Bennett wanted 400M in public funds. He was going to put up 100M. This was his initial offer. The WA legislature declined even putting up 300M, exactly what they had put up for the other teams.

I’m not saying that Bennett didn’t have his heart set on Oklahoma the whole time. We all know he did. But I am saying that Seattle got tight with it’s funds and, in a way, cornered Stern. And we know Stern is a diva who was not going to take less than the other kids.

Purchasing my Dragic jersey

by rosewood on Jul 3, 2008 11:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

They intended to move from the get-go

It was never about the money.. it was always about relocation.

Aubrey McClendon (a partner in Bennett’s consortium) got fined $250K by David Stern for telling an Oklahoma City newspaper: “We didn’t buy the team to keep it in Seattle, we hoped to come here. We know it’s a little more difficult financially here in Oklahoma City, but we think it’s great for the community and if we could break even we’d be thrilled.”

and:
“We started to look around and at that time the Sonics were going through some ownership challenges in Seattle,” McClendon told the Journal Record. “So Clay, very artfully and skillfully, put himself in the middle of those discussions and to the great amazement and surprise to everyone in Seattle, some rednecks from Oklahoma, which we’ve been called, made off with the team.”

People negotiate like this all the time, making offers that cannot be accepted, and them wringing their hands and saying “we tried to be reasonable”. Bear in mind that Oklahoma City approved just $120M to renovate the Ford Center (which is not that much bigger than Key) and add a practice facility, far less than what they wanted from Seattle.

So yes, King County did pay $300M for Quest (which ended up costing $430M), and $340M for Safeco (which ended up costing $520M), and may have come short on their initial tender, but I don’t believe for a second that Bennett or Stern acted or negotiated in good faith. Furthermore, there’s plenty of money in Seattle, from both the tech sector and the Indian casino sector, to have funded a stadium privately.

To be honest, I don’t even blame Bennett too much for doing what he did. But he did it, from the start, with David Stern’s full cognition and tacit approval, and that’s the sin I having trouble forgiving.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 3, 2008 11:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple of things

First, you can’t really compare construction costs in Seattle and Oklahoma City. Labor market rates are much, much higher in Seattle than OKC, and the cost of adding additional property for practice facility will be much cheaper than in Seattle. Plus, Ford Arena is a larger, higher capacity arena to begin with. But this is minor.

More importantly: I agree. I don’t think Bennett ever bargained in good faith (though I doubt there’ll be sufficient evidence to prove that). But I think you’re forgetting that Stern was already in conflict with Seattle long before Bennett showed up. That’s why Schultz sold the team in the first place: state and city officials were being intractable about a new stadium and the Sonics were losing money. Stern wanted the Sonics in Seattle, though I think the resistance/low-balling from the state/city eventually made him indifferent if not hostile to their staying. But to say that he wasn’t in good faith, I would think is false. The Sonics had been losing around 20M a year during Schultz’s whole tenure and both he and Stern knew the only way to remedy that was a new stadium But the city/state were not having it. So I think by the time Bennett came into the picture, Stern was already embittered to say the least. So to expect him to start fighting for the Sonics at that point is a little strange. And last remember when Schultz sold the team, no local buyers made an offer. That does not seem like a state that wants to keep its team.

Last on an unrelated note: Native American casino money isn’t private (or at least it shouldn’t be). I lived on a reservation w/ a casino for a long time. That’s tribal money. Of course, the nature of tribal politics can make that money do funny things, but it isn’t “private.” It’s very much public (to the tribe at least). I’m not sure if there’s any precedent for tribes funding stadiums. I lived in North Dakota, and they don’t really do pro sports there.

Purchasing my Dragic jersey

by rosewood on Jul 4, 2008 1:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Connecticut Suns WNBA team plays at the Mohegan Sun Casino

I know that’s unique because it’s on tribal land, but even though the WNBA really isn’t a major sport, it is a precedent of sorts. That arena also hosts Davis Cup games. While the casino money does indeed belong to the tribe(s), as a whole, some tribes have been known to make collective investments outside tribal lands.

Tribal casinos are a big growth area in the greater Seattle economy. I’m sure they would jump at the opportunity to host a pro sports team. And since those places don’t run a book operation, there’s less of an objection than there would be with a Las Vegas team.

It’s also not clear to me how much more expensive construction in the Seattle area is. While the city and Bellevue are expensive, the surrounding area is not so expensive. By the time you get to Tacoma/Olympia, it’s pretty low rent, which is why I guess Bennett proposed Renton. It’s certainly far less expensive than silicon valley/santa cruz.

While I agree, to a point, that Stern may have a valid beef with the city of Seattle wrt Key Arena, as this article shows, Howard Schultz was just as much to blame. In fact, it’s the same issue in both cases: the city declined to give him what he wanted without negotiation, he pouted and sold the team. In Schultz’s case, as the article points out, he also didn’t like his employees (Gary Payton in particular), and I think that soured him on the team.

Personally, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for local government to be miserly with their money, or to at least ask for a detailed and honest accounting of how the money is going to be spent, what revenues and taxes will be generated, how much the franchise owners are willing to invest, and what the overall impact is going to be. You would think that a guy who built a multi-Billion dollar company, on the back of VC money, would understand and appreciate that concern. But as too often happens, otherwise smart businessmen become children when they own a sports team.

Also, If the Patriots and the Celtics/Bruins can privately fund their own stadiums/arenas, it’s reasonable, imho, for the city of Seattle to ask why the Sonics could not do the same. After all, Boston is not that much bigger than Seattle.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 4, 2008 2:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong issue

In fact, it’s the same issue in both cases: the city declined to give him what he wanted without negotiation, he pouted and sold the team. In Schultz’s case, as the article points out, he also didn’t like his employees (Gary Payton in particular), and I think that soured him on the team.

If there was a lack of negotiation, it was on the part of the Seattle city council. Nick Licata, the council chairman, straight up told Sports Illustrated that the Sonics have zero economic and cultural impact on the city, so why should tax payers bail them out of debt (nevermind the fact that they had done that for the Mariners and Seahawks). It was a stonewall from the city council that led the state legislature to agree that there was not enough support to justify giving Schultz 200M for Key Arena renovations. That’s not Schultz refusing to negotiate. That’s Seattle saying we don’t want you.

Now I’m perfectly fine with the argument that cities shouldn’t feel compelled to cover a private corporation’s (i.e. an NBA team’s) debts. But I don’t understand why a team should feel compelled to stay in a city that clearly isn’t willing to give them that support when another obviously and happily will?

Seattle didn’t want its team until it realized it was really going to lose its team. Stern, I really think, did the right thing here. Why keep losing money in a market that does not want you (and treats you as less important than the other franchises) when you can go somewhere that is dying to have you?

But for making that decision we ask for David Stern to be sodomized. And Seattle? We treat them like poor victims, even though they were polling at 78% in 2006 that they’d rather lose the Sonics than fund them.

Go Stern.

Purchasing my Dragic jersey

by rosewood on Jul 4, 2008 4:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Emerald City vs. Dust Bowl

That bastard Bennett wanted $500 million, which is more than the cost of a retractable roof baseball stadium and a football stadium, who the hell is gonna bend over and give that much money. That fool didn’t want to spend a dime in Seattle, and we all know that. In the end, you got 4 assholes in Stern, Bennett, the mayor, and Howard Schultz, who each sold out and screwed the people of Seattle. Although, Schultz barring a miracle could reduce that number, and have his name taken off the people of Seattle’s shit list.

The decision to move to Oklahoma makes little to no business sense either. Sure the Okies will go and sell out most the games if not all in the first year or two, since there’s nothing to do in Oklahoma, but eventually I think you’re looking at another Memphis or Charlotte. Bennett will then sell that team, as he goes broke or pulls a Schultz, and sells.

by Aluminum Foyle on Jul 4, 2008 12:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stern is invincible

The networks fear him, and will always spin things in his favor. Look at all the reporters, such Screamin A Smith, who stood by the commish, and called Donaghy’s accusations false. Stern isn’t just a lawyer, he is a corrupt mobster. He runs a corrupt cartel called the NBA, and if he doesn’t like you, or you don’t respect him, he’ll screw you over (i.e. The entire Pacific Northwest, Portland you’re next, Sacramento, PHX, Dallas, etc.) The guy is so corrupt, that he has spun the hell out of the Spurs as being legitimate good guys, just because nobody on that team has been accused of a crime.

Stern won’t let Mr. Starbucks win his lawsuit against Bennett either. Watch Mr. Starbucks settle, drop, or lose his lawsuit, cuz Stern just could very well mess Schultz up, since he is a mobster.

He spun the hell out of Jokelahoma as if it were heaven, when the place is a dump, has the pathetic and dangerous roads, and possesses some of the dumbest people on earth, with an education system that ranks 48th out 50 states in terms of education ranking, and a far cry from the high tech mecca of Seattle. I hope Kevin Durant leaves OKC when he is a free agent, after all he is a Texas Longhorn, and really stick it to Stern and Bennett.

by Aluminum Foyle on Jul 3, 2008 9:36 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

what the deuce??

I lost a comment I just made

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 3, 2008 10:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

sorry.. it's there now.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 3, 2008 10:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

A travesty!

Look, times are tough, and as much as you may love a team, to fork over $5mill. for a new arena is just ridiculous! That money could be going toward better programs in education, city maintenance, and other human resource projects. This is the equivalent of the gallon of gas or gallon of milk dilemma, you shouldn’t twist the arm of a city to choose.
Besides, these are businessmen, why can’t they fund their own shit! The only way a city, a community should fund a team is through revenue from tickets and merchandise, something which the fine people of Seattle have done.
I feel sorry for the Emerald City, it’s a beautiful town with passionate sports supporters (just watch a Seahawks game!), but I don’t blame them for not wanting to "play ball". I’m not going to question their want for the Sonics because they had to go to ridiculous extremes just to keep their team.
Bennett and his thugs, as indicated by emails didn’t even want to keep the team in Seattle anyway, plus for all his want for a new arena, the man backed out of a commitment to finish the Key Arena lease.

It’s a dirty deal with cowards, bastards, and thousands of heart broken victims.
Much love to the people of Seattle, I truly do hope we can face off again

Hasta la victoria siempre- Ernesto "Che" Guevara

by PurplePinoy on Jul 4, 2008 3:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs