Is it time to trade Amare?

by Seth Pollack on Jan 20, 2009 11:13 PM MST in Commentary Comment 10 comments

A really good blog post by a properly trained and edited writer would at this point proceed to do the following:

a) Explain how great Amare was in the past thereby demonstrating how great he can (potentially) be again

b) Lay out in stats, game performance anecdotes and perhaps fancy graphs or charts how poorly Amare is playing now

c) Include some relevant graphic or photo to peek your visual interest

d) Transition into an explanation of the pro's and con's of the question: Should the Suns trade Amare?

e) Conclude by telling you what you should think

I not being a properly trained writer and not being bound by the traditions, standards or protocols that make all such writing ~~boring~~ acceptable by journalistic stylistic norms will now skip straight to "e" under the assumption that:

1) if you are reading this blog you already know "a" and "b", don't really care about "c" and have probably discussed "d" ad nausea either in the comments on this or a similar online venue or perhaps with your dog or other best friend.

2) if you are reading this blog you don't want to read a story such as the excellent work produced by Sports Illustrated found here or more likely, prefer to supplement your reading with something a bit more....hmmm....crappy.

To the answer to the question...

No. Not yet anyway. Here's why:

I am instinctively opposed to mid-season trades involving key starters on teams that are trying to compete. Note I did not say win a championship. The Suns goal is to improve over the past two years of not winning a series (beating the Lakers in 07 when they sucked doesn't count). A major trade like this at this point is going to take a team that is still trying to figure out how to play together and throw it yet again into mid-season pre-season mode. How many times can you do that and not be the Dallas Mavericks?
Amare has done this before. For the past two seasons now this blog has been filled with Amare bashing posts only to see him turn it around and return to playing to his potential. I don't buy that he can't do it. I don't know why exactly he's not doing it but I don't buy that he can't do it again. He doesn't need to put up Dwight Howard or Tim Duncan numbers. He's not going to be a great rebounder or defender. He's probably never going to mature into a team leader. But if he brings the full effort every night he will give this team what it needs.
There's still time. The trade deadline is February 19th. As noted in bullet #1 a trade of this magnitude would be tremendously disruptive so I would rather wait and be sure that
i) you are going to get back exactly what you need which is a solid power forward that can shoot and rebound. David Lee. Louis Scola. Something like that plus you need to get at least one first round draft pick and in a perfect world a young point guard as well.
ii) that he's going to turn out to be T-Mac or Vince Carter because if he goes to Oklahoma and becomes the top 5 player he can be you will never live it down
Don't forget that he's got a restaurant with his name on it right across the street from the arena and you better believe that the quality of the food will decline fast if he's not there to oversee the kitchen (all joking aside, I ate there once and was totally unimpressed)

Bottom line. As long as Amare can put up 20 and 8 and do a fair to average job on defense than you wait and see what happens this season and make your move during the summer. Unless a perfect deal comes along that fills your immediate need for a starting power forward and gets you draft picks for the future.

Now, what do you think?

Poll

Should Steve Kerr move Amare Stoudemire before the trade deadline?

Hell no. Stat Sun Tzu will bring back his Gorilla Game!

66 votes

Hell yes. Anything to get him gone. Suns are better without him. Period.

109 votes

Only if he continues to suck AND you get a great deal in return

195 votes

The SI story was better. Go back to whatever you do

18 votes

388 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Hmmm

The SI story was a well written version of my rants in the comments over the last game…..
My take – Don’ trade anybody, we have excellent pieces……. We have 5 big name starters…. Thats huge talent……. Phil Jackson, and Popovich have won with a lot less……… The key is a coaching philosophy that MOTIVATES everyone, to play to the best interests of the team winning……… I don’t agree with the SI story that this team can’t sacrifice, Nash and Stat were unselfish during 7SOL….. they just arent doing enough in a way that moves the team forward….. Drop one game to the Celtics, by a blowout, thats fine….. but the Minnesota and Denver (and Indiana, and Sp*urs games) were INEXCUSABLE…..

Shaq is right, this team has given away too many winnable games…… Championship teams don’t do that……

by RottPhiler on Jan 20, 2009 11:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Yea Hmmm

I agree with what you are saying. Don’t trade anymore, I don’t see anybody trading any players that are going to replace what Amare can do. He has had a few bad games here and there but I think that goes to coaching and the “Oh no! Throw it to Shaq first.” attitude that the Suns have taken on.

With Shaq in the lineup and being the focal point of operation during the game, it takes away from every player on our teams ability to produce. The defense does not have to clog the lane as the amount of space Shaq takes up removes an entire side of the courts ability to penetrate. Obviously this has a domino affect as the players we have currently feed off of the Nash benefactor. If Nash cannot penetrate (because he is throwing it to Shaq, or his drive is rerouted by Shaq) it makes Nash very easy to defend and shuts down the rest of the team. This is where all of the turnovers come from as it makes Nash ineffective and forces other players to attempt forcing a pass.

Amare may be the one being hurt most by the presence of the big fella. I will explain. There is typically a double team “waiting” for Shaq to get the ball. Amare, with no post up game, has to start his drive face up against his defender. Or take a defended jump shot from the elbow. The obvious choice is to face his defender and put the ball on the floor. Here is where the trouble starts. Remember that waiting double team on Shaq? It then becomes a triple team on Amare and of course results in a bad shot, a foul on somebody, OR a turnover. If Shaq clears the Lane or is off the court Amare still has to deal with a double team. Shaq ends up to far away to get a rebound. And the result is again the same.

Sometimes the system works but only when the match-ups allow and/or the team doesn’t execute the double/help defense well enough to defend the paint.

Does it all makes sense now?

I say we play it out until Shaq is gone and use the free money to sign somebody that will rebound and post but can step outside of the paint to give Amare, J – Rich, Barbosa, and of course NAsh room. The problem is by then we will have to possibly replace Steve Nash. Which could dramatically change the entire team in every way. However, Phoenix has been a place that has always had decent point guards and I have no doubt that they will somehow end up with another great player at that position. So don’t panic people the Sun hasn’t burnt out yet. It’s just an eclipse.

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi

by antiw0rm on Jan 21, 2009 8:39 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Too Much Has Been Given Up

As much as I too have been frustrated with Amare’s play and attitude, I think it would only be a mental and emotional reprieve than an actual applicable solution to the problem of a discorded team.

As mentioned in this article, it would not be wise to change now, since it would add only more work in transitioning personnel.

Amare is (was?) such an explosive player, and is still very valuable with that.

He has in the past, and can still turn it around. (I mean he did work on his jumper when he was a dunker, he can put in the work).

But.

I’m just saddened that the expense things have happened for his sake.

First we choose Marion instead of Amare to trade. Marion, though he too wanted the attention like Amare, still gave it his all though every night, was just as explosive if not more, and could not only be an offensive threat in slashing, but was better defensively, and got us rebounds, things Amare has not done.

Second, we anointed him to be “The Man” when really, that’s a personal decision he needs to make, not others. He has proven he is not ready, and probably doesn’t want to be a leader.

We got Shaq, so Amare can play the 4 spot and be effective. I still believe Shaq is still a detriment in a way that he’s put this team in flux, stagnating the offense and caging Nash’s ability. Yet Amare has not improved with the trade.
But though, to Shaq’s credit, he like Marion in the past, was tenacious, had as much heart, put in as much hustle, and really cares about this team’s success. That’s more than I can say for Amare.

We sacrificed two good players, so we can attain the athleticism and flare Marion had, because we gave it up in other trade.

It seems to me, everyone in this team, Shaq and Nash especially, has made sacrifices, but Amare hasn’t.

Unless a better deal comes, we keep him. But as detrimental as a trade off for him can be on the court, it won’t be bad off the court, and unlike the other fellows we have traded, emotionally I’m not going to be as upset.

Hasta la victoria siempre- Ernesto "Che" Guevara

by PurplePinoy on Jan 20, 2009 11:57 PM MST reply actions 1 recs

True, Amare's improved his jumper so that it's a lethal weapon.

But that’s about it. In seven years, he’s improved his jumper. Has he improved his defense? No. His rebounding? No. Has his ego grown? Yeah. Has he lost explosiveness? Yeah.

He’s had seven years to mature, but he hasn’t; that’s not a star player to me.

I agree that we should have kept Marion instead of Amare.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jan 21, 2009 9:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Mistake to Trade Amare

Amare may be underperforming this year – which also could be said of the entire team.

But there is no way in hell that you trade Amare. He is a unique talent. There is no other guy in the NBA like him. At his best, he can foul out the entire other teams’s frontline and drop 40 points (see some of his playoff games vs. San Antonio). He’s also a bit more of a force with blocks, though he isn’t at Kirilinko level or anything. Yes, he’s a slighly underperforming rebounder.

Hey here’s news for all you D’Antoni bashers, aren’t we all shocked that Terry Porter’s team is NOT an upgrade over Mike D’Antoni’s Suns.

by eagleheart on Jan 20, 2009 11:58 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I'm So Hoping We Just Got "Punk'd"

Seriously, no offense to the man since Porter is a new guy, but this is a joke.
Sarver is a jack-ass with a crooked smile, and Kerr is just gutsy, but they’re not coming into fruition.

Hasta la victoria siempre- Ernesto "Che" Guevara

by PurplePinoy on Jan 21, 2009 12:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

D’Antoni’s Suns were never going to win the title, if they had to go through the Sp*rs…..or another lockdown defensive team…(or a team with a dirty player like B*wen or H*rry (just so I don’t seem pro-SA)!)!

This team most definitely looks like an upgrade everywhere (at SG (Jrich over Bell), PF (Amare over Marion), and C (shaq over amare)) except sadly in the place where it matters most…. the Wins Column

I still believe, this team has the potential to turn it around come playoff time (which we most certainly will make – no doubts there)…… all they need to do is find that all elusive harmony and balance……….!!!

Make Amare the Man – make him feel the team is his to take wherever he can take it…….. that will bring out more motivation and responsibility…… sadly if it doesn’t then nothing will……….

by RottPhiler on Jan 21, 2009 12:12 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey may drop 40 points

But he’ll give up just as many on the other end.

Using adjusted plus minus, Amare was the SECOND WORST big man defender in the NBA; he’s only ahead of Al Jefferson.

Couple that with his terrible A:TO ratio, and his mediocre rebounding rate….I don’t see why he’s held in such high regard, honestly.

by rsavaj on Jan 21, 2009 9:30 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

The big mistake was the trade Marion x Sacq and his big contract. Marion for any other perhaps would have been better.
Amare at the moment cann’t be ‘the man’ because is Sacq and next year too.
Thinking that Nash maybe next year isn’t, I would try to get a good change right now.
What is this change? I don’t know, but we must try to do something.

by matrix7 on Jan 21, 2009 7:51 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn’t trade him in a rush to make a better bid at an NBA title. I don’t think the Nash/Shaq window is long enough to forgo a future Amare bring.

I’m of the opinion that every player has a price, meet the price, get the player. So if a deal comes around that makes sense then …. but I think it’ll be very hard to get an offer for Amare that brings more than he will as a player over the next 6-9 years.

http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/

by NBR on Jan 21, 2009 8:28 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Amare's #'s are blocked by Shaq

Offensively, Amare is good at being in the post. Once Shaq retires, we need that inside explosion that Amare brings. Only problem is that Amare is horrible rebounding offensively and boxing out. He just needs to learn how to do that.

When Shaq retires, we need a big body at the C position that just concentrates on D, boxing out, rebounding, and blocks and who cares if he has no offense. Let Amare be the inside man on offense though.

by Coolbean04 on Jan 21, 2009 9:45 AM MST reply actions 1 recs