D'Antoni takes his pound of flesh out of tired old hides

by Phoenix Stan on Jan 22, 2009 10:59 AM MST Comment 50 comments

Watching this game made me tired. Not in the way that watching the Suns used to make you tired with all the running and the gunning and the shooting and the running.

This was more like the way watching paint dry makes you tired. This was like yawning when the person next to you yawns.

Yawn_medium

This game is barely worth talking about but Shaq had this to say:

Against a team like this you’ve got to defend. It’s an another game we let slip away. You’ve got to defend and you’ve got to be there for the rebounds. It’s a little frustrating. We’ve let nine of ten games slip away and were suppose to beat teams like this every night, but they came out and played a little bit harder.

Our rotation was supposed to be there, but Mike (D’Antoni) had our defense moving around a bit. That’s what type of a coach he is, he had a good game tonight. Its not hard defend especially when you go over it, you’ve just got to play defense and stop people.

Box Score * Posting and Toasting * Game Quotes

About a week ago the Suns were sounding pretty happy with themselves. Grant Hill declared that the team was there. Nash proclaimed things were coming together.

Then Denver, Minnesota, Boston and now New York have shown just how much more work the Suns have to do. Not so much on their game as their effort and perhaps sleep rotations.

The Suns looked tired and old and not just the old guys.The great energy and effort we were seeing after the JRich trade has faded and the bored, unfocused Suns have returned.

It is hard to believe that this team, in this season could get complacent but that's what it feels like. They've gotten to the point where they expect to win without trying and have stopped trying to win.

Terry Porter is more like the kindly older bus driver shuttling the unruly brats then the fiery hard nose competitor we were expecting. He's acting as if he's afraid to discipline this team and you wonder how much respect for him they have at this point.

As for the game itself...

Against D'Antoni's Knicks, the Suns did a fairly decent job of working the clock and controlling the tempo by scoring the the paint which is an effective strategy as long as you remember that you also have to work your ass off on defense to contest every shot and battle for every rebound.

If all you do is slow down on one end you end up having a third quarter where you are outscored 21-30. Ball game.

Amare stood out once again for his ineffectual effort. He had 20 points on 17 attempts and looked absolutely lost on the defensive end of the floor.

Nash couldn't buy a basket despite having many wide open looks including a couple at the end to try and salvage a win. He did have 19 assists but half of those were throwing to Shaq in early offense who had his way with the smaller Knicks front line (if he acted quickly enough before the help came and he was fouled where he reverted back to tossing up some seriously ugly bricks).

Hill and Barnes were both dragging ass and could not have stayed in front of Eddie Curry out on the wing.

Matt Barnes. Matt Barnes needs to realize that he's Matt Barnes and stop shooting so much. He does know he's Matt Freaking Barnes right? It must be tattooed somewhere on his body. Let me help.

YOU ARE MATT BARNES NOT KOBE BRYANT!

The Knicks weren't all that impressive either except for David Lee who plays with Lou Amundson's energy but far more skill and talent. Danillo Galinari looks like a player as well.

This really is a fairly impressive roster and D'Antoni will have them ready to beat teams every third game or so as they've proven recently by taking down Boston, New Orleans and Phoenix while managing to lose to the Wizards, Thunder and Timberwolves.

Who loses to the Timberwolves?!?

Anyway, I went into this recap without much to say and I've accomplished saying not much of anything.

Sorry, if the energy and effort wasn't there tonight. It is a Wednesday after all. Besides, what are you going to do? ~~Watch another team~~ read another blog?

Steve Kerr Moron Meter:

You lose a game to a 16-24 team coached by the guy that you broke up with (or were dumped by) you get a Moron Point. It's really that simple.

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Steve Kerr...

Moron point?

No doubt that our offense isn’t as good without D’Antoni, but who would have thought that our defense would be just as bad, if not worse, with Porter as well?

by brian13 on Jan 21, 2009 10:27 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

oh yes

I forget. I will add that in a bit

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jan 22, 2009 7:10 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

by cabezonication on Jan 21, 2009 10:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Tired?

This game made me feel sad, b/c it was incredibly clear that we have become a “has-been”.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jan 21, 2009 11:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Todd Haley for head coach

LOL… just kidding….actually on second thought not kidding entirely…. Porter needs to get in the whole teams face……

a hundred laps around the stadium in the hot sun, for each free throw missed!!!!

Whats up doc?

by RottPhiler on Jan 21, 2009 11:56 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

We're just too damn old and not enough role players

Hill, Shaq, Nash.

These guys are ancient in basketball years. Past their primes. They don’t have what it takes to stay healthy and compete every night while doing all the little things (they need to see Sweet Lou for what that means).

Amare can be great but needs a supporting cast that can make him look good (like Shawn Marion did by getting all the rebounds that Amare doesn’t get).

by eagleheart on Jan 22, 2009 12:03 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Building around Amare would be a mistake IMO.

He’s a complementary piece, not a main piece.

Nash, Shaq and Hill seem to be the best players on our team this season.

by rsavaj on Jan 22, 2009 12:06 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

your right, amare is a complementary piece

a complementary piece that doesnt rebound, doesnt play defense, tries to score the most points in one of the highest-scoring teams in the league and talks about getting his gorilla on when he reaches 6 rebounds. oh, im sorry what was my point?

by ryansunsfan on Jan 22, 2009 9:03 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Except...

Hill, Shaq and Nash have been the only moderately consistent players all season. And as much as I like Amundson’s energy, I’m not sure that careless turnovers, slow rotations and overzealous fouling are part of the “little things” we’re looking for.

Amare isn’t a franchise player. He’s part of the supporting cast.

by Azreous on Jan 22, 2009 1:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think

A supporting cast won’t help Stat do the things he’s sucking at. Who would you put on the team to make Stat rebound? Who would you put on the team to make Stat play defense? He’s still getting his points, though a little less, but then again that’s his fault, not those players around him. He missed A LOT of easy buckets last night.

And IMO we have too many role players. Nash and Shaq and Hill aren’t starters in this league anymore, even though they’re putting up decent numbers. They’re on their downhill slide and on a successful team would be coming off the bench for 25-30 minutes a game.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 7:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Totally disagree w/ your Nash/Shaq/Hill assessment

I think a lot of teams would be glad to start them. It’s not just any PG that can give you 19 assists 2 games after an 18 assist game; it’s not every center who can give you 19/8; as far as HIll goes, he’s still one of the highest IQ guys in the league, and sadly he’s the only competent defender in our starting lineup.

by rsavaj on Jan 22, 2009 9:25 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I totally disagree tooo

Lebron, Wade, KG, and Kobe…would be happy to swap places with Amare, and if anyone of them does, this team wins a championship…….hell even Kevin Durant would do

Whats up doc?

by RottPhiler on Jan 22, 2009 12:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I stand corrected

Both really good points.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 3:15 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, thinking about it, don’t you think we’re pushing them a little too hard? I know we can’t tell now, but I hope they’re still fresh if we make the playoffs. Kiss of death right there. I guess I’m just saying that adding Shaq to an already good center, or grant hill to a group of good gaurds, and Nash to an effective PG, would really help the team in question. So our issues may arise from not having good enough backups to these players. Hopefully Sims can fix part of that.

But as is, I just see three old men who, though they’re playing AWESOME, are being asked to do something that will sooner or later break one or more of them down. In their prime, you could easily build a team around any of the three, and if you had all three at once you’d be invincible, but men age, and I don’t trust that our team is dependent on only them. If Stat steps up, or if Lopez had proven to be at all effective, if we could get consistency from Barnes, and if Diaw would have been better and Bell hadn’t slid, the play on the court would be very different, much improved.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 3:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Blah

Third game of the Suns in a row I haven’t seen for various reasons and to be honest, I’m glad I didn’t see them. What’s that now, they’ve lost 4 of 5? What the heck is going on here in AZ? The Cardinals are in the Super Bowl and the Coyotes are the 5th seed in the Western Conference while the Suns seem to take a half step forward and 2 or 3 steps back every week. Sigh.

Oh, and Amare being voted into the All-Star Game feels like a pity thing since the All-Star Game is here in Phoenix. I’m not sure he deserves it.

by TwinnerA on Jan 22, 2009 12:48 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Nash had 19 assist.......

And we lost………wtf.

by cabezonication on Jan 22, 2009 2:06 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Probably 12 of them were into Shaq under the basket for easy lay ins. Hugely inflated number, 19. They didn’t spread the ball at all.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 7:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Try giving the ball to Shaq in the paint

It’s not as easy as it looks man… believe me.

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Jan 22, 2009 7:49 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a lot easier than a lot of other passes. It’s a lot easier getting the ball to Shaq than it would be getting it to most other players. Nothing is easy in the NBA, that’s why it’s the highest level, but some things are much easier than others.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 3:19 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

What I'm saying is

That Nash’s passes last night were deep in the paint. Shaq only had to turn around and the basket was in front of his forehead. By saying that it’s an “inflated number” you make it sound like it’s a walk in the park.

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Jan 22, 2009 4:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

no, no

I’m sorry. I mean for Steve Nash it’s inflated. I feel like he’s made thousands of passes way harder, and I won’t compare last night to the 18 assists he had a few nights ago because he wasn’t creating something out of nothing but taking what the Knicks were giving us. As Shaq was taking what the Knicks were giving us.

I don’t know if the Knicks are truly that awful in the paint or if D’antoni’s method was to make us one dimensional. It worked brilliantly if it was done on purpose. It worked brilliantly if it wasn’t.

Hey, maybe we were just out coached?

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 4:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Shaq get's credit

too for running the floor and establishing that low post position and being in place to catch that ball. He should get an assist on the assist

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jan 22, 2009 5:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I prefer to be silent

by matrix7 on Jan 22, 2009 4:24 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

and that my silence was heard in Kerr’s office

by matrix7 on Jan 22, 2009 4:28 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

stupidest comment

ive read in my whole life. kidding man. :D

by ryansunsfan on Jan 22, 2009 9:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

then, you’ve read very very very very few :(

by matrix7 on Jan 22, 2009 10:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn, I miss D'Antoni

No one on the team is buying Porter. You can see it. Rotations, plays out of timeouts, defense. Fail. Fail. Fail.

The defense is a joke. Anyone can score on them at will. Teams are just drooling to play against us.

I have given up. If we make the playoffs we’ll be eliminated in the first round. I know it’s early in the season and a lot of things can change and I really hope they make me eat a crow by the end of the year but it’s time to accept the fact that this team is not going anywhere.

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Jan 22, 2009 6:27 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I don't miss D'antoni

we wouldn’t win with him. I think he knew that. The only thing I care about is a championship and I agree, it’s just not gonna happen, but that doesn’t mean I’d want D’antoni back, because he’s not the right coach for the job.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 7:04 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

its like which would you rather do, lose in the 2nd round, or lose in the 1st round? to be honest, i could care less, we lose anyway.

by ryansunsfan on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather win 58 games a season with a chance at the WCF then win <50 with a high probability of being swept in the first round

by rsavaj on Jan 22, 2009 9:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Again, I don't understand the "we wouldn't win with D'Antoni" sentiment

We never had a full year with the full roster to test that theory.

by rsavaj on Jan 22, 2009 9:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

D’antoni’s style is the issue, not the players he has to run that style through. I like coach D, and I enjoyed winning 60 games a year with his style of play, but I hate not making the finals more than I loved my favorite team winning 60 games. And if you want to get to the finals and if you want to win a championship, you have to play defense. That’s the bottom line I think, and coach D thinks it’s too much effort to play good D. Worse things could have happened than have D’antoni leave us for the Knicks.

And when was the last time a coach won a championship when he didn’t want to, or coudln’t, discipline his players? Maybe he’ll change and if he does he’s got a great shot at winning the finals, but he’s got a lot of learning to do, and a lot of changing. It’s too bad he wasn’t willing to grow in Phoenix. He is a good coach.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 3:28 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

We were a top 13-17 defensive team during D'Antoni's tenure here.

4TH in 05/06 until KT went down.

D’Antoni cares about defense. Maybe not much, but he cares.

by rsavaj on Jan 23, 2009 12:01 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

There's something wrong with Porter, the players, the front office.

I hate to see the Suns lose to weaker teams and get bullied by stronger ones. I think there’s a problem with the coaching right now, but an adjustment is a two way process. Players themselves are failing to adjust and give effort. Of course, Amare for being crap in the past few games.

With Coach D, there are a lot of questionable aspects of his system. For one, while statistics might say that we’re the top 13-17th defensive team during his tenure, it might be attributed to the fact that teams were caught in the “trap” of SSOL during the season. Fine, it works that teams might have rushed their shots and not scored as much, but I don’t think it ever worked with a good strategic team like the Spurs, who wouldn’t ever get caught in SSOL.

Moreover, playing 7 to 8 guys at most during an entire season and series makes the Suns predictable and drains their stamina. While offensive teams may have won the championship before, the early 2000 Lakers with Shaq and Kobe, I believe, please do correct me if I’m wrong, it may be attributed to good post offense by the Lakers. D’Antoni’s style relies on the fast break, PNR, “sucking in” teams, and quick-volume shooting. The Suns have dominated teams for years enough for them to come up with a good counter attack. Correct me if I’m wrong, but even before the Shaq trade and the entire adjustment issue last year, the Suns were having hard time winning already (as what Kerr said in his letter). The fact that Suns’ players are not good defensive players themselves proves that player development in that aspect has been lacking for for years. New York while improving, for all of Coach D’s offensive brilliance, is still not a playoff team looking at their record.

So even if it might have been wrong to get Porter as the head coach, it doesn’t affect the decision of letting go of Coach D. I think Kerr did something right when he let go of Coach D, but with the question of a better replacement remains to be seen.

Nice discussion here, just my two cents.

by Azrael on Jan 23, 2009 2:55 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks

well said

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jan 23, 2009 7:26 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

i DONT want to make the playoffs

what, so we can lose to the spurs again? nope, lets get a top 14 pick and a chance at the lottery.

by ryansunsfan on Jan 22, 2009 9:05 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

ok - let's breath deep

I know this sucks right now but the season is barely at the half way point.

There is a LOT of time left and I think think this team as constructed is potentially a top 4 team in the west.

The question is IF they will live up to that potential. Right now it doesn’t look that way. After beating Dallas a bit ago it did. Next week it might again.

Long season. Lots of ups and downs. Breath deep.

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jan 22, 2009 9:16 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

If we continue to play like this, then no, I don't want the playoffs either.

Bring on the lottery.

by rsavaj on Jan 22, 2009 9:27 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure - if we continue to play like

this we won’t have a choice

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jan 22, 2009 9:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jan 22, 2009 3:21 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

watch this team wake up and be a monster in the playoffs :D

Whats up doc?

by RottPhiler on Jan 22, 2009 1:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Take a pill

I think everybody needs to take a bit of a pill and breathe for a second. I am not saying that I am not frustrated with this team. But we have been making the playoffs consecutively now for several years. Yeah it sucks that we lost what should have been the championship to the spurs two years ago but its the roll of the dice. I think we should all be happy with making the playoffs during the transition of the team. Get real, this team is on its down cycle and will not be a true contendor again for a good 2-5 years. It is time for the team to put it in cruise control and let the vets make there exit and rebuild. Without defeat, you cannot appreciate victory. Look at how sweet it is to be a cards fan right now.

by Gorilla Game on Jan 22, 2009 11:30 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for being an ass about it

but guys what the hell happened…I mean I’ve been a Suns fan since "88 and I have accepted losing to better teams (the Bulls) and accepted the good players losing a few to alot of steps (Sir Charles and Penny) but come on!!!!! I can’ t accept management destroying a class franchise. You can say what you want, but we WERE a class franchise. I really felt that in "04-05 season would be the start of some really great to be a Sun’s fan for the next 10 years…we had the youngest and one of the most talented teams in the league…sky was the limit…now we are old and no draft picks…so unless we make a splash in 2010 free agent class we are done for quite sometime….

by ron_dasun on Jan 22, 2009 11:58 AM MST reply actions 0 recs

I'm hoping this will be the wake-up call they need

Dropping the 4th in 5 nights on the road to a lesser team happens to everybody, and is pretty excusable. This current skid appears to be more than that, but hopefully this will wake the players up from their “we’ve arrived” malaise. We’re not quite halfway there yet, Stan is correct that there is plenty of season left, and dropping multiple games to teams behind them in the standings should send a better message than anything Porter could say.

I think this is a solid team with a legitimate shot at some postseason success if they get the right breaks. The biggest concern I have is that they seem to think they are still the elite team of the past few years, and the reality is that they’ve got to work harder for wins this year.

by SoCalSun on Jan 22, 2009 12:17 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Hope

I really hope you are right bro…..and Amare hasn’t been the same since the knee surgery…yeah jumper got better….everything else started sliding backwards fast.

by ron_dasun on Jan 22, 2009 12:24 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

This team has all the Talent to be really good and perhaps win it all……But Do they have the drive and the heart to do it?…….They make to many stupid mistakes…..They need to be more patient and stop forcing passes it they are not there….Turnovers are such a nightmare for this team.

by cabezonication on Jan 22, 2009 3:50 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

I don't miss Coach D

I miss Jerry Colanago. I don’t except the reason " well its a down turn, franchises go through these things, we won’t contend for another 2-5 years" 1. When were we a contender? Making to the Conference finals makes us a contender?, I want to get into the finals PERIOD. That is contending for a title. And 2. why must a team go through this, only when poor decisions were made, And there is laundry list of poor decisions made by Sarver, Kerr and Coach D.

So trade the All-Star himself, Stat, and get the best deal you can get. He is really a sore spot on this team, Good-bye Amare, its been a good run, time to go.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Jan 22, 2009 4:32 PM MST reply actions 0 recs

Suns have been to Western Conference Finals games very recently. What more would you call a contender? There is no argument against the poor decisions that management has made on this team. I think about the mistakes and want to bash my head into the floor. I for one think that Sarver will be looking to sell the team and would not be surprised if that took place. His cash flow is hurting in the banking industry, the team is on a down turn. Why not sell now and let somebody else take over, which may not be such a bad thing.

by Gorilla Game on Jan 22, 2009 11:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs

he won't sell it for another few years.

have you taken a look at the economy recently? i don’t think many people are in the market for sports franchises.

by iamtrevorpaxton on Jan 23, 2009 12:22 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs

Always two sides.

I will just assume the economic question was rhetorical. There are always people out there with money, just because average Joe does not have it, does not mean that millionaire Matt is not looking for a new venture. Also do you think the market value of this team will be the same next year or the year after that. What if we do not make playoffs.

by Gorilla Game on Jan 23, 2009 8:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs