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Men of a Certain Age: Vets Dominate in Suns 109-107 Win over Clippers

1 game winner down, 81 to go. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)

More photos » Mark J. Terrill - AP

1 game winner down, 81 to go. (AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)

Back in July, I penned a little piece of commentary on the Suns' offseason called "No Franchise For Old Men" about how the Suns shouldn't have made re-signing Steve Nash and Grant Hill a priority.  Um, yeah.  About that...

Grant Hill (19 points) carried the Suns early and Steve Nash buried the Clippers late (24 points, including the game-winning lay-up) to secure an opening night win in Los Angeles.  Throw in Marcus Camby's Clipper-leading 23 points and it was practically "Space Cowboys" night at the Staples Center.  Actually, the old guys leading the way was pretty typical for what was in almost all ways an atypical game.

Star-divide

For a team looking to impose their style of play on their opponents, the Suns did not do a very good job of running.  2 fast break points in the entire game is not a stat you want to see from an alleged run and gun team.  The Suns looked a little lethargic out of the box and never really got running at all.  Credit the Clippers with some good transition defense and the twin towers of Marcus Camby and Chris Kaman for significantly clogging the lane once they were back.  They recorded several early blocks and changed shots.

Despite the inside presence of Camby and Kaman, the Suns more than held their own on the glass with edges in both total rebounds (36-35) and offensive boards (10-7) with Grant Hill leading the way with 13.  (Side note: I hate "what ifs" but you have to wonder what kind of career Grant Hill, and the rest of us, were deprived of due to his injuries.  If this guy is balling like this in his late 30s, what would he have done at full speed in his prime?  Just freaking sad and scary to think about.)

I'm not sure if Amar'e Stoudemire was tentative or just looked tentative.  On at least 3 different plays, he received the ball deep in the post.  1 year ago, those were thunderous dunks.  Tonight, they were either blocks or fouls on hesitant moves to the rim.  This doesn't concern me much as he's still playing his way into shape, but it's a situation worth monitoring.  Hopefully, rounding into shape for Stoudemire will include improving on his 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.

If you're looking for bright spot in the Suns' game tonight, look no further than the play of the bench.  The second line provided a great spark and outplayed the heck out of the Clippers second team.  Don't let their relatively anemic point totals (21 points total) fool you.  Louis Amundson did his irritant banging thing and Jared Dudley was everywhere, notching 7 boards in 23 minutes.  Goran Dragic was more than capable in reserve of Nash shooting a perfect 3 for 3, and dealing 3 assists with no turnovers in 11 minutes of reserve duty.  And Earl Clark's first NBA performance bore a lot of similarities to his pre-season performance: he looks great when driving but struggles with his jumper.  He did demonstrate his versatility on the defensive end, performing effectively on a few different players.

Defensively, the entire squad has a ways to go.  There will not be many nights, the Suns can afford to give up almost 56% shooting and walk away with a win.  If it hadn't been for some late offensive heroics by Nash, they might not have done so tonight.  It also helped that the Clippers shot better from the field (55.8%) than they did from the charity stripe (55.6%).

This really was a loaded game for the Suns and I am not really doing it justice here.  I think this team is far from firing on all cylinders and for them to be effective and truly make a run at the playoffs, they have very little margin for error.  They clearly missed Jason Richardson at both ends of the floor tonight. Leandro Barbosa did not look comfortable as a starter and didn't seem to find his stroke until he was playing with the second unit. 

I expect a similar performance Friday night versus Golden State and hopefully a much more aggressive and cohesive game once J-Rich returns versus Minnesota.  That's the Suns' de facto 3 game learning curve, because after that they become Road Warriors in a brutal stretch of schedule that has them playing 18 of their next 23 games on the road. 

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Positives

I know it was only opening night (and the Clips) but a win’s a win. And we won the rebounding battle! So all in all there seems to be several positives to take out of this game. he important thing will be to see if they can start building on this over the next couple of games (which means they’ll probably lose to the Warriors by about 20 on Friday…)

by nash-n-burn on Oct 29, 2009 2:06 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

We’re not gonna lose to the Warriors, I hope. Hopefully Amare will take out some frustration re: this summer’s trade rumors, although he clearly doesn’t look 100%

Was good to see us win the rebounding battle though. Especially against a team with 2 big men who are excellent rebounders.

by ArizonaCactus on Oct 29, 2009 2:21 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Few Thoughts

1. I doubt Alando will see a lot of important minutes this year. Didn’t even get any time with JRich out, and can’t imagine he’ll get more minutes when JRich comes back. Which is sad, because I wanted to see what he was capable of…

2. Our schedule to begin the year is extremely tough. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we were under .500 at the beginning of 2010. Our January schedule looks much better, and remind me of that when I start to panic sometime in mid-December

3. I really like the bench’s potential this year. I noticed Steve still played 37 minutes, and likely will have to all year in close games, but I’m hoping that with better practice, chemistry, and such he will only have to play 30-32 minutes a game. I thought Dragic was playing o.k., but wasn’t surprised when Steve came back in with 8 minutes left in the fourth. We needed our closer in the game. Would like the rotation to change up a little bit and have Dragic come in at the end of the third though.

4. I’m glad we take a long early road trip. I’m hoping it helps build on the chemistry I saw tonight. It seems like everybody is happy again, and when we play happy we usually play well. Players tonight were unselfish, hustled, made the extra pass, and I’m hoping that this upcoming road trip solidifies some of that comraderie. Then again, I wish we didn’t have to play MIA/ORL/BOS 3 games in four nights.

by ArizonaCactus on Oct 29, 2009 2:19 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Nash's minutes

I have to think that Nash got those extra minutes due to Amare not being himself and no JRich

I was surprised that Clark got 20 minutes compared to Lou’s 10 but I think that had to do w/ Lou’s sore foot and of course Clark played really well for his first game (despite being 3-9).

Looking at 9 rebounds for Amare and Frye and 20 for Hill and Dudley I wonder if our bigs weren’t actually face guarding and boxing out and keeping Camby and Kaaman from getting too many (they had 20 combined). I would have to re-watch to really know but I will ask about that today at practice

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan

by Seth Pollack on Oct 29, 2009 7:56 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are right.

Honestly, I am not too concerned about Amare only getting 5 boards. Camby and Kaman are both rebounding studs. That we held them to 20 combined is actually not bad. My guess is that Amare and Frye were both busy trying to box out. In that case, I am all for Amare only having 5 rbs. As long as SOMEONE is getting the boards, then I am happy. Last night it was Hill and Dudley so great. Even Frye had a few by the end of the night. Now if only his shot would coem more consistently…

Go read a book!

by N8lol on Oct 29, 2009 8:06 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would go with that

I noticed last night that I did not see much of Kaman/ Camby on the defensive end except for a few blocks in a crowded paint area. They did battle / steal a few offensive rebounds but all in all they where almost not present on the defensive boards.

TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"

by antiw0rm on Oct 29, 2009 8:28 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was a bit concerned on rebounding

One the one hand, to win the battle with Camby and Kaman in there is a good thing, but I think they got more than 20 combined … looking up the box score … oh, you’re right. I was pretty sure the rest of the Clipper got about 5 combined. Not a bad job, then.

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Oct 29, 2009 9:58 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone should invite Amare to BSOTS....

For the love of God please Amare WAKE UP!!!!!!!, Hill got 8 more rebounds than you!!! Dudley grab 7!!!! and he ain’t even athletic to begin with!!!

…. Still a win for us against a team who managed to hang tough against the Lakers is a good win for us…..

by Spit_Fire on Oct 29, 2009 3:30 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Old mne may have won the game at the very end with their experience

But there was a clear youth movement for 45 minutes.

And Grant Hill could have been the second or third best basketball player in the last 15-20 years. You’ll never top Jordan with 7 or 96 titles, whatever he has, but if Hill could have been healthy to put up the stats, I don’t know who else you’d put ahead of him. Shaq, but the comparison is unfair—big man/guard. But that’s history and not good history for Grant. It doesn’t matter to the here and now. He’s balling now and that’s all that matters.

It was an awesome game and I’m glad I stayed up.

Fanaticism is not logical

by SunDolphin on Oct 29, 2009 6:19 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Recap Mike...thanks

hope you enjoyed the game at Staples and made some Clippers fans hate the Suns a little bit more

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan

by Seth Pollack on Oct 29, 2009 7:57 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

and great story line and title

since it’s my birthday today and I am….older than Nash or Hill

Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan

by Seth Pollack on Oct 29, 2009 7:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what was it like

Before the invention of basketball?

TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"

by antiw0rm on Oct 29, 2009 8:30 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Happy Birthday!

1. Happy Birthday!

2. I can’t take any credit for the title. I’m blatantly sucking up to TNT to secure some future employment. Future re-caps will include mentions of The Closer, House of Payne, Damages, Amazing Grace and several Law and Order re-runs.

by Mike Lisboa on Oct 29, 2009 9:48 AM MDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Is "Nip/Tuck" on TNT?

There’s something there for the home game crowds

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Oct 29, 2009 9:59 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Happy birthday, Stan.

Fanaticism is not logical

by SunDolphin on Oct 29, 2009 2:18 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ditto

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Oct 29, 2009 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Grant Hill...

People forget that he was LeBron James before LeBron James (at least numbers wise, not necessarily body-type wise)…his first 5 years in the league were off the charts!

by watdogg10 on Oct 29, 2009 8:48 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Ah Mike-I was thinking of your “Old Men” story last night while watching the game. I wondered if you’d mention it in your recap!

I like the way this squad battled back. There were a lot of clutch plays-Leandro, Nash, but my game ball goes to Dudley-he is fearless, hungry, tenacious, and a lot of other adjectives that describes a man determined to stay in the NBA. Guys with heart like his are not very common in this day and age.

by Wil Cantrell on Oct 29, 2009 9:29 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

cool!!

I didn’t see much of it…but great to hear that about Dudley! It’s that exact same thing…that makes so many frustrated with Amare…because if Amare had that type of attitude and desire…it’d be a totally different Amare…a superstar…which I don’t consider Amare to be now…Superstars meaning 1 or 2 of the very top nba players….not top 30.

by be-the-ball on Oct 29, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

your right...but

not everyone forgets, I’ve known since the day we got him that he was still amazing! There are some great 1/2 tv specials on Grant. Plus he’s a class act, and funny…I think I mentioned it before…you likely know about it…but if one person reading this doesn’t…it’s worth typing…a year or 2 ago…on another suns website…there was video of an interview with Grant Hill at his Scottsdale Home with his wife…and he was asked…“Isn’t it great playing with someone like Steve Nash?”….and Hill without skipping a beat said “Sure is, it just goes to show you something good can come out of Canada!”…there’s tremendous chemistry between Nash / Hill / and a few others on the team…I’d add many of the bench players…barbosa quickly comes to mind…but Jrich and Amare don’t fit into that chemistry and never will…they’re selfish…even with that said…I still think 2 and 3 years ago we were a break or so away from getting into a title game…and a small break at that…

by be-the-ball on Oct 29, 2009 9:34 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our lack of rebounding is hurting our ability to fastbreak

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/66217

Our wings are crashing the boards since our bigs don’t give a crap about rebounding. This is actually something I’m really worried about. Our team is built on speed, and we can’t have Grant Hill and Jason Richardson be our leading rebounders, because they’re supposed to be running down the floor!

And the comment about Blair(23 minutes) outrebounding Amare and Frye combined(66 total minutes)…ugh.

Thrilling game, but we need to step it up!

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Oct 29, 2009 10:10 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

If you think they don't give a crap you're mistaken

 - though it may frustrate some fans that they don’t put up Dwight Howard numbers, you better believe that they want to be better at rebounding – and they do hear what is said about them.

Frye was in foul trouble tonight. Amundson did well. Lopez didn’t play – Collins didn’t play. Amare made a lot of things on the glass happen that don’t show up in the rebound column.

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Oct 29, 2009 11:22 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, Amare sucked

He only outrebounded Jason Richardson by 5!

April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?

by Hawk42 on Oct 29, 2009 1:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

P.S. - DeJuan Blair is a freak of nature -

Man I like that kid…

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Oct 29, 2009 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

They do have some big names on that clippers team. Last year they couldnt get more than one star off the injured list at any given point. Put them all in there and they should win some games just based on pure talent.

TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"

by antiw0rm on Oct 29, 2009 11:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Clippers can be a good team if they're healthy.

When Blake Griffin is back – I expect this team to give everyone a run for their money

They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...

by Eutychus on Oct 29, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

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