Suns Not a Fast Break Team Because They Just Aren't
by Seth Pollack on Nov 23, 2009 4:55 PM MST
in Commentary
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Steve Nash continues to insist that the Suns are not a fast break team. When asked today if that was by design he said this, "No. It just turned out that way. I think if you would have asked everyone at the start of training camp we would have said we were going to be a running team. We haven't really been a running team. It's just the way it is."
While the numbers support the Suns still being a top team as far as Pace, you only have to watch this team on a game to game basis to understand what Nash is talking about. There are far more half court sets and far fewer times when the Suns are busting out of the pack and charging up the court.
Earlier in the season Nash attributed some of that to an increased emphasis on rebounding and Coach Gentry has said that teams can either crash their offensive glass or get back in transition and stop the Suns from running but they can't do both.
It seems that so far the Suns opponents are willing to be less aggressive on the boards in order to prevent the Suns from running the ball down their throat.
Obviously the mix of players has something to do with it as well. Amare Stoudemire in 2009 and Channing Frye are certainly not the same front court speed demons that Amare in 2005 and Shawn Marion were.
Nash suggested as much, "Maybe we don't quite have the same dynamics or the same type of athletes we had in the past but we're still scoring as many points. It probably suits our long term success to be a little bit better in the half court."
Steve also talked about the reputation of the past D'Antoni teams being a bit overblown and called "Seven Seconds or Less" a "marketing tool". He implied that even in glory years of the run and gun the practices with 7-second shot clocks was more of a myth.
Interestingly enough the numbers support this using Pace Factor and Offensive Rating from Basketball-reference.com
| Season | Pace | Rank | Offensive Rating | Rank |
| 2009/10 | 96.2 | 4th | 114.7 | 2nd |
| 2008/09 | 96.0 | 4th | 113.6 | 2nd |
| 2007/08 | 96.7 | 4th | 113.3 | 2nd |
| 2006/07 | 95.6 | 3rd | 113.9 | 1st |
| 2005/06 | 95.8 | 1st | 111.5 | 2nd |
| 2004/05 | 95.9 | 1st | 114.5 | 1st |
While 95.9 was good enough for the Suns to be the fastest team in the league in 2004 and 2005 now the Suns are only 4th in Pace and are actually faster then they were. The league has gotten quicker overall. Offensively, the team has been fairly consistent when it comes to points per 100 possessions which is Pace adjusted measure of offensive potency.
Looking at the same question using numbers from 82games.com we also see that the Suns have remained remarkable consistent with the percentage of shots coming within 15-seconds on the shot clock.
| Season | Under 15 seconds | Under 10 seconds |
| 2009/10 | 73% | 42% |
| 2008/09 | 70% | 43% |
| 2007/08 | 73% | 43% |
| 2006/07 | 72% | 43% |
| 2005/06 | 75% | 44% |
| 2004/05 | 75% | 48% |
The first couple of years with Nash and D'Antoni however were played at a higher speed with 6% more shots coming quicker in the shot clock in 2004 than this season. Overall the Suns are still shooting quickly but not quite as quickly as before.
The difference between these two data sets is probably due to other variables. Pace is a measure of possessions per 48 minutes which is clearly impacted by the how quickly a team shoots but is also affected by rebounding, turnovers and free throws.
Earlier in the season there were some indications that both Nash and Grant Hill weren't satisfied with the style of play and specifically the lack of tempo but with the winning record and high scoring that seems to have gone away.
"It just seems to be who we are and I don't know exactly why but that's fine. We're still moving the ball, creating mismatches and double teams and getting penetration and opening up the floor and spacing the floor with our shooters. Everyone's come to the place where we're comfortable with that," said Nash.
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stats be damned!
I still thinkl the demoralizing effects of a fast break, especially scoring 2 or three seconds after a made basket cannot be overlooked. I think even tough we are what we are, we would do well to get some easy baskets now and again. Just not as a rule.
The Showtime Lakers were mostly a half court team. But if they caught you napping, watch out. We will need to score points in a hurry sometimes. Denver will see to that.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Nov 23, 2009 5:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
STAN the MAN
You are on a roll today!! ? That’s 3 quality pieces in one day! You need a raise, keep up the solid work
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Nov 23, 2009 9:36 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I think it's important for them to accept what they are, play to their abilities
and not try to force themselves to be something they’re not, a la Shaqenomics or a fast break team when the opposition is doing their damn hardest to take that aspect away. That’s simply smart basketball. That’s smart anything. D’antoni never understood that so now he sucks in New York. We’re still good ONLY because of the willingness to evolve.
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 24, 2009 6:38 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
its curious that everybody is getting on dantoni in new york
but if u look at it, the management has pretty much explicitly stated that this season doesn’t matter. as a basketball player, how motivated would u be to play well for your coach when you know your front office doesnt give a damn?
by yanyanman2 on Nov 24, 2009 7:48 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That's when the coach gets together with the players and they decide...
“Fuck the front office and let’s do this for ourselves.”
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 24, 2009 3:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
If it ain't broke...
Let’s face it, the starting unit isn’t as fast as it was in 2004/5. JRich gets down the floor pretty quick, but not Marion or Barbosa quick.
I think people have a tendency to relate high point totals with running, which obviously isn’t always the case. We run when we have the option, but there’s no reason to force quick shots for the sake of beating the shot clock.
Perhaps this is the Gentry view on 7SOL, and perhaps where it can succeed where D’Antoni’s philosophy didn’t. Who knows.
BUT IT’S WORKING MAN, for now.
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 24, 2009 8:14 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like a direct relationship to rebounding
Our “gang rebounding” approach seems to be something like: Bigs block out, guards/SF come grab the rebound. That approach is obviously working better than almost anyone could have hoped. However, that approach also means that Hill, JRich, etc. aren’t leaking out on the break.
I think we have to choose one or the other – we can’t do both given who we have grabbing boards.
by tptman on Nov 24, 2009 11:01 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
It's about balance Daniel-san
Most of what’s being said on this is accurate. But in my view, a lot can be attributed to the fact that for the first time, we have 7 guys that can drop 20+ on any given night. Everyone can shoot and score so there’s better flow, better spacing. A few quick passes and someone has an open look. It’s not 7SOL, but it’s not Shaq-ball either. So we give up a few seconds, but are getting more open looks, fewer turnovers and maybe a few more offensive rebounds because everyone’s involved in the flow. So for all of these and the other reasons mentioned above it’s working, we’re scoring and winning.
by FunInTheSun on Nov 24, 2009 12:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you guys (Wil, tptman, FunIn The Sun)!
Marion was a big part of the D’Antoni era fast-breaking style (of course, Nash was the key) with his ability to leak out and sprint down the court before anyone else could. And to add to that, part of the excitement that was coupled with that era’s style, I believe were the Nash to Marion ally-oop plays. I don’t know if Stoudemire just doesn’t have the hops Marion does/did (well, no one really had Marion’s pogo-stick hops, but still) but that play certainly added a lot of excitement to the game.
Regarding Gentry’s version of the SSOL style, I believe he is doing what he can with the players he has now (age and type) and modifying it. I would expect nothing less of any coach that came after D’Antoni (that’s not a knock on Porter directly, but it IS! Heh heh), to take the successful parts of the style that brought winning years to Phoenix and add the parts that were necessary to take them further (rebounding, defense, developing the younger players). But as stated, “It’s working” so let’s celebrate the 11 – 3 record!
The gang rebounding mentality is a really intelligent way to get the most out of this team. Sure, Stoudemire and Frye may not be rebounding masters, but to hold them to the job of boxing the opposing bigs out properly to let Hill and Richardson snag rebounds (Nash has always seemed to be a “right place right time” rebounding guard) is a great solution, even if it costs the team a few fast break points…I’d rather them grab a rebound for themselves than have 1 – 2 players leak out leaving a 5 to 3 advantage for the opposition to get an offensive rebound.
Balance is right! Offensive efficiency as a result of gang rebounding, offensive spacing, more than capable scorers and of course, Nash, are the components of what this team’s early success is made of and a lot of us Suns fans love it!
by 77blue77 on Nov 25, 2009 4:47 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
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