Preview: Suns vs Magic (Forget about that Dwight Guy)
by Seth Pollack on Nov 4, 2009 11:27 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage
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PrintWith all the focus (understandably) on that big guy in the middle with fancy muscles and jumping and what not, I want to turn our collective heads and give a cough out to the point guard match-up in tonight's game.
On one side we have the Hot Older YMCA White Guy Actress who is dominating and on the other side the young guy who's not so shabby her himself.
From NBA.com, lets check the tale of the tape...
Not even close. So lets not get all bent out of shape worrying about how many Frye's Howard might eat tonight. This is a team effort and for the time being our team is being driven by the best in the league.
There, I said it.
Right now Steve Nash is the best point guard in the league.
Suck it, Chris Paul and your 1-3 Hornets. Chew on that Deron Williams and your 1-3 Jazz.
Quick, someone stop me before I declare this Suns team the best ever and a lock for the 2009/10 NBA Championship after going 4-0....
Preview Mash-up
[Preview by Paul Coro, 11/04/09 11:59 AM MST ]
azcentral.com - members
It seems like a tough call for the Suns to play Orlando on the second night of a back-to-back but the Magic is coming off a game Tuesday night at Detroit. The Magic lost 85-80 and Howard is going to be ornery. Howard fouled out in 17 minutes of play, reminiscent of a December 2006 against Phoenix in which he fouled out in 19 minutes against Stoudemire.
[Preview and Recap by Al McCoy and Steve Kerr via KTAR, 11/04/09 12:44 PM MST ]
[Note by Phoenix Stan, 11/04/09 2:52 PM MST ]
I can't help it. I've been thinking about the front line match-ups.
Ryan Anderson is a PF that likes to hang out beyond the 3 point line and bomb away. Channing Frye is a C that likes to hang out beyond the 3 point line and bomb away.
What are the chances that Howard leaves the paint to cover Frye?
Zero.
Which means Howard will have Amare and that means putting D-Ho in about 3,000 different pick and roll situations with both Nash and Amare going straight after him. If they are calling the game tight and Howard is overly aggressive coming off the Magical loss last night in Mo-town than we've got a solid chance.
On the other end, let Frye deal with Howard in the paint and Amare can stay safe by chilling with Ryan on the wings.
Hell, I am looking forward to seeing Amundson on Howard or even Collins. But I don't need to see Amare trying to handle him 1:1 in the post.
This is a game where we need to keep Amare out of foul trouble and attacking on the offensive end.
And let's not for Mattie Barnes
What's the over / under on him making bad plays (silly turnovers or ill advised three's)?
I'm going with 4.5
[Preview by Eutychus , 11/04/09 3:00 PM MST ]
I have to study for a test (that I take at 5pm… right when the game starts..) so I don’t time to write a good preview – so here’s a quickie -
I think the Magic will sink or swim depending on how Howard plays. If he plays out of control because he’s still upset about yesterday’s loss and officiating – then I can see him picking up more fouls tonight and self-inflicting bench time. Plus because his shoulder is sore it will be interesting to see how (if at all) that will affect his game.
Other than Dwight – the Vince Carter Grant Hill match-up will be a fun blast to the past affair that Grant Hill will come out on top of. As for everyone else on the Magic – we have the advantage.
The other Eutychus Keys
- Shoot better - earlier. Come out smelling blood in the water (I love my shark references)
- Put last night's Defense on repeat.
- Perimeter defense needs to be tight whenever Redick - Carter - Nelson - or even Williams are on the floor and roaming about that shazam line - they can knock down the outside shot.
- Carter and Nelson will be driving machines - put a boot on em'.
Other than that – Orlando goes deep to the bench and has a great (and huge) front line…. but with that huge front line they will more than likely have trouble coming out on Channing Frye or dealing with how well we have been spacing the floor lately. It will be a great game tonight and I’m interested to see how we play on our first back 2back!!!
LET’S GO FIVE AND OH YEAH!!!
see you for the second half maybe..
[Whine by Dwight Howard, 11/04/09 3:27 PM MST ]
What really bothers me is they are letting guys hammer me at one end of the floor, yet I’m being called for everything. All of those hits take a toll on my body after a while.
As for my shoulder, it’s really sore right now and it really hurts when guys are hanging on me and pulling on my arms. The trainers have done all of the tests and they say everything is fine, but it’s still hurting me a little. They said my shoulders are plenty strong enough around the injury, but it’s like a bruise and will take some time to get fully better.
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Chastize?
I think it’s better! Here’s my in-depth of why – but in short – we have a more rounded philosophy that keeps the face pace but emphasizes more D – we have a deeper and more valuable bench that the coach actually uses – and the best chemistry on a Suns team for as long as I can remember
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
+1
This team is better for exactly the reasons you said. The bench is the biggest. Not just that we have the depth, but that AG actually goes to the bench and wont freak out and put the starters back in if they start letting the game slip away, even slightly. Our starters play hard, and harder than I’ve seen them play before. And because Nash is now a 36, he needs that rest more than before. We cant expect him to play his age in minutes day after day. The bench being strong willed and tenacious allows Nash (and others) to sit without fear of letting the game go.
Oh, I think it's far better
I think what you have here is a perfect mix of experience and youth. We mainly had youth and style 5 years ago. Now we have a hard nosed philosophy borne from Nash’s travels in the latter half of this decade. Everyone on the team has learned a ton, more each year. Today’s team would destroy the former Suns team. Hell, this may be the best Suns team of all time.
Fanaticism is not logical
Actually
The only thing this team has with the one of 04-05 is the lack of expectations. Otherwise today we’re superior in every way. I’d love to put Nash’s 36 year old mind in his 31 year old body, but if I had to choose, I’d take him as he is today. We’ve got Grant Hill who is better than anyone we’ve had (excluding Nash) since we had Barkley. Amare is a better defender, and if injury free, a better player. We’ve got the three point shot, rebounding is way up, and though we don’t have Marion, we have the future in Clark. We’ve also got a hella deep bench and a coach not afraid to use it.
Fanaticism is not logical
Whoa there..
Hill is the 3rd best player in Suns recent history behind Nash and Barkley? I love Hill but I wouldnt go quite that far. And I’d definitely take 31 year old Nash and Amare of 04-05 over 36yo Nash and Amare now.
And I'd definitely take Shawn Marion over Grant Hill
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
BULL!
No, I understand. I’m just not that big of a Marion fan. I’ve appreciated and enjoyed Grant Hill much more than Marion. I don’t buy into the dunking thing. I love them, but to me that doesn’t make a player great. And 36 year old Nash brings things to the table 31 year old Nash couldn’t because he didn’t yet get hip checked, deal with Shaq, or realize defense wins.
My philosophy of what a player should be comes a lot closer to what and who Steve Nash is today, and Grant Hill. Even Amare is starting to play like I hoped he would. Sure, you can have all the talent in the world, but without the experience, the life skills, the attitude, you’re just playing a kids game. I think that if the 04-05/05-06 teams had one a championship, they wouldn’t have earned it. This team may not win anything, but I think they deserve to. They’ve put in the time.
That’s all crazy. Been listening to too much Alan Watts.
Fanaticism is not logical
"I don't buy into the dunking thing"
That wasn’t Marion’s only skill. His defensive versatility and off the ball play were vital to our success. Indeed, I view Grant as emulating Marion’s role…not the other way round.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I agree
no one worked as hard every night as the Matrix
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
That's true
I’m not taking away from anything Marion did for us, and though he was a bit offensively limited at times he more than made up for it with his D. I’m not ever going to trash on him. I can definitely understand why a Suns fan would also be a Marion fan. We owe him a lot. Just not a max contract :P
Fanaticism is not logical
Shades of the Boris Year (05-06)
Is more like it. Except now our under-sized center can shoot but not dribble. While taxing Nash more, it at least moves him out of the lane on offense for Stoudemire.
In 04-05, they came out of nowhere. In 05-06, they had suffered a setback and there were many doubters.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
Suck it, doubters
I know it’s a young season but Nash has been incredible. Whoever doubted about his lack of fire pr intensity is eating serious crow now.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
crow ....yummmm
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Nov 4, 2009 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
I’m surprised by the 37 mpg from Nash. At this rate, his legs will fall off not long after the all star break. I want to believe we’re as good or better than those Western Conference Finals-reaching teams of a few years ago too, but I think it’s a mistake to be using Nash so heavily in such trivial, early-season games.
I don't think any games are trivial for us this year...
that attitude is what helped us lose the games we should have won last year by trying to “rest” Shaq on back-to-backs against “lesser” teams … who ended up beating us bad.
That was one of our many uncharacteristic problems last year – we didn’t win the games we should have won. Winning those games and dominating Eastern Conference teams is a byproduct of the running style – when the run & gun under Nash & co. is in full swing, we will win almost every game we are supposed to win this year.
As for Nash’s minutes… He’s not concerned about it – Alvin Gentry is not concerned about it – Steve Kerr is not concerned about it – WHY? Because Nash is supposedly in the best shape he’s ever been in according to him. I heard a quote that said Alvin Gentry will look to limit Nash’s minutes this year when he sees an ‘x’ by our name as having clinched a playoff birth this year – then he will look to sit Nash more: You know what I say to that? AMEN. I love Goran and the bench – but if Nash can play – and he wants to play – and he’s physically conditioned to play how he plays THEN DON’T PLAY AROUND AND LET THE PLAYBOY HIM PLAY!!!!! :)
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
thx -
For those who are lazy and won’t click… here’s the relevant section of the above linked article -
Nash’s minutes
Welcome to the sixth Suns season of hoping to reduce point guard Steve Nash’s playing time.
Nash, 35, has averaged 33.6 to 35.4 minutes in the previous five seasons, consistent with his previous four in Dallas. He understands the concern but said there is “a fallacy that’s created about my durability.”
“It doesn’t matter to me,” Nash said recently of high-minute games. “I take care of myself and prepare to play all summer. I’m not out playing golf or drinking. I feel like I can handle it.”
“If I play 37 a game for the season, that’s OK.”
Suns coach Alvin Gentry forces Nash and Grant Hill, 37, to sit out of practice at times.
“I’m concerned about him (Nash), but I’m going to play him,” Gentry said. “I’ll tell you when I’ll start looking at his minutes – when they put an X by our name in the paper that says, ‘clinched playoffs.’ I’m not going to sit him an extra three minutes and risk us losing a game.”
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
OK, you guys are right. I was wrong. It’s great that Gentry is playing the bench… except anyone behind Nash. We really should just whip him until the wheels fall off, especially since we have to pay him for the next three years.
Why praise Gentry for using the bench, Eutychus, then justify the opposite when it comes to Nash?
If the difference between a win and a loss is 5 more minutes for Nash
He should play. There’s no such thing as a trivial game when we can go 46-36 and not make the playoffs.
by hcblankscreen on Nov 4, 2009 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
No need to get upset BM
Why praise Gentry for using the Bench? Because the bench isn’t just Goran Dragic. Because he uses 9-10 to sometimes 11 guys who can contribute – D’Antoni never had that kind of depth – nor would he have used it if he did.
Nash is an athletic anomaly.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Bare, we could rest Nash early but if we fall behind in the race to the playoffs
We’ll have to depend heavily on him late and risk losing him then. It comes to the same thing. It’s much better to use him heavily now, build a lead, then lay off. It might still come to the same thing, but these early games are much, much more important than you suppose they are. If we’re 2 games out of the playoffs at the end of the season, and we had started 2-10, those games really did matter after all. Just because they’re a few months before the end doesn’t mean they’re any less important.
Fanaticism is not logical
Even the players consider games trivial and routine. I think it was Vince Carter a few years ago that was quoted saying he “takes a night off” from time to time. It would be nice if everyone treated every game like it was a game seven, but that isn’t the case. Guys are more likely to play with urgency toward the end of the season when they have an idea of how things will play out, and I don’t see a reason to lean heavily on Nash because other guys may be slacking early in the season.
Additionally, if the Suns are hovering around .500 at the end of the year and we’re barely hanging onto an 8th seed or just out of reach of it, then the season is a loss as far as I’m concerned. Why bust your butt at the end just to win the right to lose 4 out of 5 to the Lakers?
I get your first paragraph and agree
But I don’t understand the second one and how it connects to the first. It seems to prove my point more. Play hard early so you’re there as the end approaches. If you don’t play with urgency to start, being around .500 is exactly where we’ll be later in the season, or at least in the middle of it.
Players definitely take nights off. It’s an 82 game season after all. I just hope it’s not the whole team at once. We can overcome Nash taking a night off, or Grant, or Stat, but not all three at once. We saw that in the Orlando game.
Just play hard. Because it’s early in the season doesn’t mean the games aren’t important. If it’s someone else besides Nash pulling the load, I’ll take it. A win is a win.
Fanaticism is not logical
No night's off
I get having a bad day at the office. These guys are human after all and some days you just don’t have it and if that happens to come on a day when the other team is on (and pissed after losing the night before and a strong contender for the finals) then you get a blow out
But a “night off” implies a mental weakness. A willingness to throw in the towel before the game even starts.
People pay a boat load of money to see these games. These guys get paid a ton. They are professionals and should at least try hard every night.
I am NOT saying they tanked it in this game. It was one game. But last season there were certainly nights like that.
That’s why I’ve been most impressed w/ this team’s edge so far this season. A game like this one in Orlando can be overlooked as long as it doesn’t become a pattern.
Getting blown out on the road to a great team you can live with. If they get blown out by Philly and Boston and DC like on that road trip last season? no way
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
+1
Every freakin’ game COUNTS. Rest at your own risk! Plus, I think Nash can handle it.
Fanaticism is not logical
I read in some review/preview
That Howard was quoted as saying that it has taken everything he has to not lose it. I hope that the refs pick on him. But I don’t want to see any suspensions from our team should he lose it. Anybody else come across that? I can’t seem to find where I read it this morning.
TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"
Interesting. Why would he admit to that? Maybe Orlando has a bit more drama than people think.
Fanaticism is not logical
i am sorry but put your best out there
i get tired of this minutes crap you are grown men who get paid a lot of money to play ball which most of us would kill to do.with all the timeouts and commercials you get rest.the suns are playing defense better than they did in all of those past years especially amare
by clinton p on Nov 4, 2009 1:15 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I like it. Less minutes only really rests the pysche, shortening a long season for the mind. It doesn’t do much for the body. Their training sessions are probably at least as difficult as the games if not more so (they should be way harder, if they’re not). But it’s all mental, this resting and not resting. Shortens THIS game so you have more time to get ready for the NEXT game. But if you lose this one the next one may not matter.
Fanaticism is not logical
huh..ESPN has Jrich listed as day to day
Anyone hear anything about that?
nope
betting that’s a mistake and that was meant for Barbosa
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
ESPN doesn't care about the Suns
so they don’t care what mistakes they make. They obviosuly meant Barbosa.
Because
I have to study for a test (that I take at 5pm… right when the game starts..) so I don’t time to write a good preview – so here’s a quickie -
I think the Magic will sink or swim depending on how Howard plays. If he plays out of control because he’s still upset about yesterday’s loss and officiating – then I can see him picking up more fouls tonight and self-inflicting bench time. Plus because his shoulder is sore it will be interesting to see how (if at all) that will affect his game.
Other than Dwight – the Vince Carter Grant Hill match-up will be a fun blast to the past affair that Grant Hill will come out on top of. As for everyone else on the Magic – we have the advantage.
The other Eutychus Keys
- Shoot better – earlier. Come out smelling blood in the water (I love my shark references)
- Put last night’s Defense on repeat.
- Perimeter defense needs to be tight whenever Redick – Carter – Nelson – or even Williams are on the floor and roaming about that shazam line – they can knock down the outside shot.
- Carter and Nelson will be driving machines – put a boot on em’.
Other than that – Orlando goes deep to the bench and has a great (and huge) front line…. but with that huge front line they will more than likely have trouble coming out on Channing Frye or dealing with how well we have been spacing the floor lately. It will be a great game tonight and I’m interested to see how we play on our first back 2back!!!
LET’S GO FIVE AND OH YEAH!!!
see you for the second half maybe..
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Spontaneous sound-off that may or may not constitute to a preview
I feel weird going into this game. Of course I’d like the Suns to win every freaking game they play in but hoping for this one feels a bit too greedy. But if enough number of the following events happen, we may just pull it out.
- Steve Nash scores at least 29 points in the 4th Q Jason Richardson Frederic-Weises Vince Carter
-
- Jason Richardson kicks Vince Carter in his leg without getting caught Amare Stoudemire “accidentally” clocks Vince Carter in the head while blocking his shot
-
- Amare Stoudemire limits Dwight Howard to 23 points and 16 rebounds Jarron Collins gets a double-double in rebounds and flops
-
- Hack-a-Howard works to perfection; Dwight shatters league record by missing 33 free-throws in a game Matt Barnes is Matt Barnes
-
— Grant Hill plays the game in a jersey made with $100 bills
LOL
I think these are funny! But I’m sure our chances are a little better!! They have no Pietrus – no Rashard Lewis – and Both VInce Carter and Dwight Howard are banged up pretty good! Plus they too are playing in a back to back coming home late last night – off of a tough loss and right into the gauntlet that is the run & gun !!! GOTTA HAVE FAITH!!
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
VC might not even play.
he’s stil listed as day-to-day, and he’s not overly anxious after coming back early last night and not playing fantastically.
i don’t want anything to happen to VC, though. he’s my favorite player…for reasons i cannot explain.
i’d prefer it if it were howard, nelson, or even barnes-y.
by Trevor Paxton on Nov 4, 2009 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
I'm from an area in Canada
in which it’s still cool to mock Vince Carter…
Seriously though, I have no ill will for him. I just had some fun typing that.
Hey just like the last game.
If we keep it close I am satisfied. As long as we don’t have any blowouts and give ourselves a chance to win. To many games last year got away from us and ended up over by the half. Let’s not do that and we will be ok.
TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"
Its early
I am surprised how the team has come out. I was a big critic of Channing Frye, I am wrong about him at this point in the season. The schedule gets tougher so lets see how we hang in there.
I do like the idea of Gentry using his bench. I am worried about Clark, I did not like the pick, but then again it is early.
Keep it up Suns
I'm predicting
Frye has a big game tonight. I think with the bigger front line, he’ll be raining 3’s all night long. Though the first 2 road games have shown that he’s cold on the road, so I guess we’ll just have to see for ourselves.
Hill vs Marion
I’ve been an NBA fan for 40+ years and a suns fan since the Barkley years. I was a big fan of Shawn Marion and hated to see him go. But make no mistake even disregarding the whole locker room cancer issue Shawn Marion never was and never will be a player the likes of Grant Hill either before Hills injuries or after ! Here’s hoping this is the best Suns team ever. Anyone for 82 and 0 ???
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