Just How Good Are The 6-1 Suns?
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 8, 2009 4:33 PM MST
in Commentary
57 comments
Nobody thought the Phoenix Suns would start the season 6 and 1 and tie the 2000/01 team for a franchise best start through seven games. Nobody.
With Amare working his way back into shape and a tough early season road schedule this team was expected to struggle to find it's footing and hopefully come on later in the season when things rounded into form and the schedule lightened up.
Given the great start is it too soon to rethink the preseason prognostications that almost universally predicted this team would win around 46 games and be happy to make it to the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed?
Yes. It is too soon but that's not to take credit away from what the Suns have accomplished so far in the early days of the season.
The Suns join only the Celtics, Heat, Lakers and Magic at the top of the league standings with one loss each and of course, Phoenix handed the only losses to the Heat and Celtics and suffered their only defeat from the Magic. Pretty good company to kick things off and clearly not a fluke that the first three wins over the Clippers, Warriors and Timberwolves might have indicated.
Offensively, Phoenix is right back at the top of the association with the best field goal percentage (50%) and one of the most balanced attacks anywhere. In seven games, five different players have lead the team in scoring (Barbosa, Frye, Stoudemire and twice each for Nash and Richardson).
Shaq is no longer clogging up the lane and the Suns back to their running ways although with a Pace factor of 100 possessions per game they aren't anywhere close to reckless abandon.
The team is shooting over 45% from three and while that number will likely come down that isn't a given since most of those shots are coming from excellent shooters getting wide open looks. Inside we've seen the return of Amare's power game and the emergence of Jason's back to the basket post moves.
The Suns are still deadly in transition and are executing the half court offense as well as they did last year and better then in the glory years of 2004-2007.
The only highly correctable flaw is the miserable 70% shooting from the free throw line.
Even more surprising is the defense and rebounding.
The Suns are out-rebounding opponents 301-295 without the presence of The Big Glass Cleaner and are holding teams to a respectable 18 points in the fourth quarter of the last three road wins.
The bench play has been fantastic even with Barbosa missing three games and the Suns no longer have to fear giving up big leads when Nash goes for a rest. Since Alvin Gentry has taken over as head coach the Suns reserves are averaging 33.5 points per game which is higher than at any point in the past five years.
Goran Dragic is looking like a stable backup point guard with a 2.33 assist to turnover ratio which is comparable to Steve Nash (2.44) and Jared Dudley and Louis Amundson are bringing the energy, hustle and toughness that you want from your reserves.
The Suns are getting stops, staying even on the glass, scoring efficiently, attacking from anywhere on the court and playing with depth. This record is legit. All that combined with a feisty team that has an underdog's edge and a toughness that's been missing in Phoenix for many years and you've got a Suns team that is a threat to continue winning at a very respectable pace.
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One game at a time for me here….I am very scared about injuries and minutes played for Nash, Hill, and Amare. It would be something for these guys to challenge the Lakers, but it’s a very long and crazy season. At this point I don’t think we need anything. I think the guys we have are sufficient, and that’s an oddity. Nash is playing like an MVP, STAT is back and will only get better. Hill does what it takes to be effective and help the team win. JRich is a pleasant surprise as is Dragic.
The bench is awful solid. I see no reason for Kurt Thomas or anyone else. Bringing in Amundson, Dudley, Barbosa, and Dragic works just fine for me.
This team should be able to play with anyone, but let’s see how they handle the Nugs, Lakers, Jazz, and Spurs of the world before we start talking about WC Champs, etc.
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 8, 2009 4:51 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Oh and Channing Frye has impressed. The Bedge and others characterized him as soft. But I haven’t seen that. In fact quite the opposite. We all figured he’d thrive in an open offense like the Suns, and that has come true. He’s been a valuable addition to the squad.
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 8, 2009 4:55 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
good points Will, but
you’ve got to figure we will need some more size sooner or later. As much of an addition that Frye has been, he’s still not a banger…and the West is full of big, bruising squads.
by ron_dasun on Nov 8, 2009 5:09 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
My quote was “at this point…” Not saying down the road we won’t need something. That’s what trade deadline deals are for. Also, as I said, we have a very long way to go. Obviously, injuries will dictate what the team will or won’t do as will our competition.
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 8, 2009 5:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget Robin Lopez
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 8, 2009 5:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Could it actually be a good thing he was out at first?
So he gets some time to see how we are playing and can know exactly what to do to help when he comes back? He won’t have to do so much on his return and just add the right touch of spice to make us even better.
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 8, 2009 6:42 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i've been thinking that exact thing all season.
now with frye in the starting five, being able to hit the three, we see that it’s better having amare and frye in the same lineup.
now when he comes back, he can take the bulk of the bigger man minutes, instead of jarron collins. not knocking collins, who has done what he’s been asked to do (generally), but lopez is the one that has some potential in him.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Nov 8, 2009 7:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
And he has a very very
seasoned Collins who he grew up with in order to look to for advise. I wouldn’t believe for a second that we brought Collins in over some other big men in order to pick up some fouls against the big guys. He has real value when it comes to Lopez and giving him somebody to work against/learn from.
TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"
by antiw0rm on Nov 9, 2009 6:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I could never forget Lopez
I think he would have played pretty well thus far. I don’t know how he’ll come back, he may need some quality minutes to get into the flow of things, however everyone from Steve Nash to Gentry said he had begun making significant progress. He could be a great asset for the team.
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 8, 2009 7:33 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I am impressed with many things… but his is one of the keys:
"The minute we start to say we’re a certain caliber team, there’s a danger," Nash said. "We just got to keep being humble, keep treating this as a project. It’s going to take the whole season."
by zeze_999 on Nov 8, 2009 5:02 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
hey I was just looking at the yahoo article on the game
and I noticed a few Lakers fans giving us props….sorry, but SCREW that…I hate the Lakers…always have and always will….I mildly dislike the Spurs, but at least I respect those guys…I can’t stand the Lakers and thats final
by ron_dasun on Nov 8, 2009 5:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
no way.
I take the Lake show any day over the Spurs. West Coast pride baby! But I guess thats because I live in Texas and hate the Spurs and Mavs…
Go read a book!
by N8lol on Nov 8, 2009 6:06 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i like the lakers more than the spurs too.
though i don’t really hate either of them too much these days.
bowen and horry are gone from the spurs, and ginobili isn’t quite as ridiculous as he used to be (with the flopping, etc.). and duncan is the greatest power forward in the history of the game, so you have to respect him. also, i’ve never disliked tony parker. he’s a pretty quiet kind of guy.
the lakers…eh, nothing has really happened over the past few years to make me hate them, so why hold an unjustified grudge? kobe is kobe, and while i probably wouldn’t like him as a person, he’s definitely one of the greatest to lace up and take the court.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Nov 8, 2009 7:50 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Lakers suck
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Nov 9, 2009 9:32 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
As of right now, I think they can win it all. I'm highly optimistic
Things that can hold us back are, as Wil pointed out, injuries are one thing to be scared of. I think injuries are the most important thing because an injury is the single adversity we don’t have control over. A guy can’t decide not to get hurt. Shit happens.
We’re running on all cylinders right now, mainly because coach of the year Gentry is keeping them focused. If any of our key stats slip, we’re in trouble. If we get lazy and don’t rebound, stop playing D, and continue to not focus on free throws, we will be in trouble. If everyone maintains focus throughout the season I don’t see why we can’t get 55-65 wins and a first or second seed in the west, and a possible upset to get to the finals.
The biggest surprise and I think the main reason we’re 6-1, and the reason why we’ll continue to play well, is the BENCH. Bench play so far has been a surprise and at times has simply outplayed the starters. We’d have 2 wins right now if the bench was as it was last year or in previous years under D’Antoni. Guys are stepping up, but unlike the starters who we can safely (for the most part) assum will continue to play well barring injury, it’s hard to judge whether Dragic and Dudely and Clark can continue to contribute as well as teams knock off this early season rust.
The wild card is Robin Lopez. When he comes back will he be a factor, or just a foul magnant that helps us about as much as Shaq has? If Lopez comes back and can give us minutes, points, defense, rebounds. Watch out. If we’re doing what we’re doing now, in January, with Lopez, I think we go from outside darkhorse contender to Finals favorite. That’s hard to say considering the Lakers, so the true test is if we can beat them.
Out-duel the Lakers in the regular season, keep rolling, add Lopez, and anything can happen.
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 8, 2009 5:12 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, needless to say Nash has a very good shot at his 3rd MVP
But voters can be ridiculous at times, and like injuries, are out of the team’s control. I always thought the season after Nash’s second MVP was better than either of his MVP seasons. All opinions, but one thing is true, people like fancy play and Nash with what must be 15 assists a night is giving plenty of that.
No more 20 turnover performaces though. After the end of the half we were on pace for 30!
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 8, 2009 5:16 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Nash
He’d have to put up 30 pts a game and 14 assists and the Suns go to the Finals. or something ridiculous. Too many Lebron and Kobe types around these days.
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 8, 2009 5:48 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
teams win championships, not individual players
Just look at Chris Paul’s stats, and then look at the win column. Notice any correlation? didn’t think so.
If we, as a team, can consistently shoot 50%+ from the field, 45%+ from the 3pt line, and 85%+ from the stripe, while at the same time not giving up too many offensive boards, or turnovers, then we can run with any team in the league. That’s what matters.
And that, btw, is what Nash gives you, and why he’s the best PG since Magic, and why Chris Paul isn’t. Team efficiency.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Nov 8, 2009 5:53 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right.
Kobe and Lebron and Dwight and KG are just sexier players. In 05 and 06 these guys were either too young or simply didn’t have the surrounding cast members to be better than Nash. That’s all changed now, of course, but as long as Nash puts up MVP-type numbers I’ll be satisfied, and you never know, if he DOES win wouldn’t that be a tremendous nod to him as an all time great player?
I’m rooting for him to do it. Far cry from me banging on him for being heartless and a baby because Shaq was stealing his limelight. He’s playing defense now, too. I think that’s the master key that will unlock every door.
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 8, 2009 6:37 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
We've won one game we're weren't supposed to have a chance to win.
As Stan pointed out in another post, there’s a huge difference between beating a team at the start of a season, and doing it again, during a best of 7 in May or June.
There are a number of questions, such as when Amare recovers fully, will he remain the good soldier he’s been, or will he revert to being the ego-monster we’ve seen the last 5 years. When Lopez returns, and if we keep Collins, will we have enough size to compete with the Lakers and the Celtics in an extended series.
At this stage, there are 4 teams who I would say were definitely better than us in a 7 game series, and 3 who were probably better: Lakers, Celtics, Dallas & Magic, and then Spurs, Nuggets & Cavs. And, I’m not sure we couldn’t take either Denver or Cleveland, just because the matchup is favorable to us.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Nov 8, 2009 5:49 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Off Topic
i was reading http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PaulCoro/66990 and half way down the article it says " Justin from Tolleson
Do you see the Suns trying to make a move at the deadline for a first round pick in the 2010 draft?
Just like we always hear about them trying to move up in the draft, I’m sure we will hear about them trying to get a first-round pick. And with the salary cap coming down, there might be a team looking to unload a guaranteed salary on a low first-rounder and take back two of the Suns’ three second-round picks with some cash. "
I am shocked that we have 3 second round picks i cheked nbadraftnet and it says we have the 49 out of 60 pick can anyone confirm our 3 second round picks?
by phxuk: Ap on Nov 8, 2009 6:03 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Found it lol kind of makes sense
Suns
Credits:
• Orlando owes Phoenix a conditional second-round pick, via Seattle from Rashard Lewis sign and trade.
• Phoenix receives Chicago’s 2009 second round pick, via Cleveland, as part of Shaq trade.
• Phoenix will receive a conditional 2010 second-round pick from Oklahoma City (Kurt Thomas salary dump).
• The Suns will receive the Bobcat’s 2010 second-round pick (Boris Diaw / Jason Richardson trade).
• Orlando will convey their 2009 second round pick to Phoenix, via Oklahoma City, top-55 protected. If they do not convey that pick, obligations are extinguished. Rashard Lewis trade, then Kurt Thomas trade)
Debits:
• Oklahoma City receives Phoenix’s 2010 1st round pick (fully unprotected). Kurt Thomas salary dump trade.
• Phoenix trades their 2009 2nd round pick (#46) to Cleveland as part of the Shaquille O’Neal trade.
by phxuk: Ap on Nov 8, 2009 6:15 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Will that matter or are you thinking we can package that for a first rounder?
Second round picks are notorious for not working out, so I’ve heard…except for that kid named Dragic (who’d have gone in the first round if his contract issues weren’t so expensive).
I’d love to have a first round pick in next year’s draft. I hate mortgaging the future for the present. Too often the present doesn’t work out and you’re left with little to look forward to.
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 8, 2009 6:41 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
That has always been a concern of mine
The issue is who to trade to get that first round pick. The chip everyone would want would be LB. And I would hate to see LB go anywhere. See how the season shakes out.
So far so good. I am cautiously optimistic. So far I am eating crow about Frye. Nash simply is one helluva player.
by Grockcubs on Nov 8, 2009 7:25 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice work
that Bobcats pick might be decent but the Orl and Cavs picks are going to be way down at the end of the draft
and Grockcubs, as much as I love LB with his contract coming due at the end of next season it might be time to trade him and get back a big
all in all it is WAY early since we don’t know what will happen with Amare. Until we see if he stays or is trade or what we just don’t know what the Suns will need
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 8, 2009 8:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
with a possible LB trade. He is now the most moveable piece. I love LB and i am sure he would be heart broken if he left but i think he could be moved with a minimal impact. My only concern is that thing called chemistry. Why tinker with what seems to be working.
Next stop 81-1 :^)
by Gorilla Game on Nov 8, 2009 9:23 PM MST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
he would be heartbroken leaving, as would a few of our players. we’ve been rolling very well so far, and a HUGE part of that is because of our chemistry. move one piece, and all of that work could be thrown away. then again, you don’t want to sacrifice your future for the present.
but…come trade deadline time, if we’re still leading the pacific and firing on all cylinders, why not let everyone get their run and see if we can make some noise in the playoffs?
by iamtrevorpaxton on Nov 8, 2009 9:37 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember
he almost cried when they played a joke on him, telling him he had been traded to the Knicks. I think he should be a lifetime Sun, unless some agent gets a hold oif him and asks for 10 mill.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Nov 9, 2009 9:50 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Nov 9, 2009 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
+1000
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Nov 9, 2009 2:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
never!
trading LB would do more harm than good. just because jrich is stepping up (and proving all the naysayers wrong who thought that LB should start over him) and the bench has been doing well without him doesn’t mean he’s not an integral part of our suns squad. he brings so much and he scares the living daylights out of other teams benches. opposing coaches always have to watch out for LB, and their attention on him will help ease the game for goran, dudley, and even lou offensively from here on out.
also, don’t forget that LB is pretty good friends with nash. and we all remember how happy our MVP was the last time we shipped away one of his best friends.
everybody talked about an improved dragic over the summer. and we got an improved dragic.
everybody also talked about an improved lopez. im expecting the same.
by yanyanman2 on Nov 8, 2009 10:16 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade LB?
Trade LB, never! Must Start LB!! (where is that guy?)
by eagleheart on Nov 9, 2009 6:46 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah I miss him
okay not really. I guess he must have got tired of the sarcasm or something. nevertheless, in loving memory of him:
WHAT? TRADE LB? You are out of your mind, even while he was injured he made the Suns work with his secret magic potion and now that he is back instead of running for presidency at the same time in Brazil, Spain, Iceland and Kamchatka, you want to TRADE HIM? NO WAY! J-Rich should be relegated to the bench to bring Gatorade to everyone if he is even capable of that, and you MUST START LB!
;)
Libertarianism is just Anarchy for rich people
by Murcy on Nov 9, 2009 7:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
This summer
the discussion was about trading around draft time. I agree that it would be bad to make any trades during the season…
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 9, 2009 7:11 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you are bipolar....
Leave the Kool Aid in the Cooler, enjoy the nice early jump
by dCoye on Nov 8, 2009 7:52 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
This.
Definitely this.
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by scotthoward42 on Nov 9, 2009 12:36 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Happy Days!
Isn’t the first 20 games the “golden rule”?
Wondering what to drink to during suns games...
by ZonaFlash on Nov 8, 2009 11:59 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
is that like
the 15 minute rule with yoru significant other?
Libertarianism is just Anarchy for rich people
by Murcy on Nov 9, 2009 7:09 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
You know what else.
We have played more road games than everybody except Denver and Memphis so far.. (as of this morning)
TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"
by antiw0rm on Nov 9, 2009 7:45 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Road Warriors!
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 9, 2009 10:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Outlook
I think it is significant to note that we have started 6-1 without two important bench players (Lopez and LB). Also, neither of these players are the disruptive type that may be difficult to integrate into the attack. Grant Hill has made up for the rebounding Lopez would provide, but right now thnere is no replacement for a full speed Barbosa. He is our Microwave (Vinnie Johnson). I see some similarities between this team and Vinnie’s Pistons.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Nov 9, 2009 9:40 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
+1
What’s not to look forward to?
Fanaticism is not logical
by SunDolphin on Nov 9, 2009 10:23 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Portland Fan here, I'm shocked...
staggered and Stooopified.
Go FRYE!!!!
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
by faith on Nov 9, 2009 10:25 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
The Blazers
I think are falling victim to the same fate as the “eyez on the prize” Suns – TOO much hype and chemistry issues with the bringing in of new pieces (Andre) – that weighs pretty heavy on a young team.
I like the Blazers -but I won’t lie – I enjoy seeing the stomachs of the throngs of Bedgers (the arrogant ones) wretch and turn
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Nov 9, 2009 11:37 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
that's kind of why
I am avoiding getting too excited about this early start. Nash said the other day they can’t get caught up in all that. Need to stay humble and focused on improving
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Phoenix Stan on Nov 9, 2009 11:41 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly right...
This team isn’t “good”, yet. Only the Boston win came as a total surprise.
But it does have cohesion, and they play “the right way”, whatever that means. It may become good in the next few months. Gotta say, though, the ceiling for this team is high from where they are now, and that’s an intriguing prospect.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Nov 9, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I Agree
Can’t let our heads get big.
I wish we could keep flying under the radar – but it looks like we’ve got some people out to sabotage that game-plan (both espn and NBA.com jumped us up 6 ranks in their power rankings this week ) But hopefully our core of Nash, Hill, and STAT can wisely curb the emotions and excitement of the younger guys and keep them hungry for progression.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Nov 9, 2009 2:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
meh,
The hype was real, your team was robbed!! I still believe that had the ref’s not hosed ya’ll you’d still have that core of a team and still contending for titles. that team was …… perfect.
(k I"m being overly optimistic, but I rooted for that team HARD)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
"New Man Law: If you don't show up for the draft you don't get to come later if you're picked. If you believe in yourself, show up and sit there. If nobody else believes in you, take it and cry like a man...in front of the cameras."
-Dave
by faith on Nov 9, 2009 4:46 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
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