The Suns are running again. Why it won't work
In the Suns' first two games under Alvin Gentry, they put up huge numbers. Forget that it was against a 13-win team with a depleted line up who's only big man was a 20-year-old 2nd round pick. They were energized and motivated and were playing with a joy that has been missing for a large portion of the season.
The Phoenix Suns looked free and easy after deciding to take a trip backwards in time to a style of play that transfixed the NBA, but so far has been unable to win the championship that everyone so badly wants.
In true democratic style, the move came "from the people;" in this case, the players who never bought into the idea that slowing down a bit and becoming less Nash-dependent was a winning formula. Whether unable or unwilling, this team never committed to improving defensively as they promised during training camp.
As Reggie Miller said on TNT, what this team did was a "slap in the face to Terry Porter."
What's done is done. Those players each have to look in the mirror and answer to themselves if they really gave Porter their best effort. Now it's time to see if they were right and if they can answer some key questions.
Can the Suns incorporate Shaq into the running game?
The Suns initially struggled after acquiring Shaq last season, going 3 and 9 as D'Antoni tried unsuccessfully to play Shaq out of the lane to keep the spacing open for Nash and Stoudemire. In those games, Shaq averaged 7 shot attempts and 11 points.
In the next 20 games to finish the season, the Suns won 15 and Shaq's attempts increased to 8.5 per game, his shooting percentage increased from 55% to 65% and he averaged 14 points per game in about 1 minutes less of playing time.
The change came as D'Antoni gave up on trying to fit Shaq into the system and, without fanfare, started playing Shaq in his natural post position. The Suns still ran plenty of pick-and-rolls but they also were feeding the ball into Shaq.
At 4th in the league in Pace Factor, they certainly weren't blowing the doors off like they did in years past. It is interesting to note that Suns are 4th in the league in pace factor this season, as well.
So, when we talk about going back to the running days of the Suns do we mean back to the 04-06 teams that pushed the ball at a breakneck speed and literally ran teams off the court?
Or are we really just talking about going back to last year's D'Antoni-led Suns that were slower but still reliant on having the ball in Nash's hands to create the majority of the offense?
This is a critical question that hasn't been answered. It is very evident, however, that the speed at which the Suns played the last two games against the Clippers, which was far more reminiscent of the 7 Second or Less Suns, is not sustainable for Shaquille O'Neal. He simply will not be able to run up and down the floor for 30 minutes per game and expect to be of any value at all.
Against the Clippers, he tried, but was clearly frustrated on several trips from defense to offense, to find himself arriving at the three point line just in time for a shot to be launched, forcing him to turn back and run back to the other end on defense. This was a very effective strategy for the Suns to use against Shaq when he was in Miami.
He was also playing further away from the rim to allow Amare to work freely against Ricky Davis and Steve Novak. I don't think this strategy will be as effective against the Spurs, Lakers and Celtics, whom the Suns will be facing over the next two weeks.
Gentry will either be forced to cut Shaq's minutes back to 20-25 per game to allow more time for quick firing or will end up slowing his team to avoid running his best rebounder and highest percentage scorer out of the game.
The Suns without Shaq will be a fast but undersized team subject to getting abused on the glass. The Suns with Shaq will be Nash-dependent in the half court, which will be efficient but also prone to being shut down when the point guard's back problems flair up or solid defensive teams are able to game plan against him.
Can Nash sustain the effort?
In last year's playoff series against the Spurs, Nash averaged almost 4 fewer assists and his FG% dropped by 5 points. The Spurs, as they've done for years, were able to take him out of his game and he admitted later that he was tired going into the series from having run a lot of pick and rolls all season long.
The plan this year was to limit his minutes with the drafting of backup PG Goran Dragic. When that didn't work out, Porter's Plan B was to play Nash off the ball more. But, turnovers were up and Nash apparently didn't buy into that idea, either.
Nash will now assume the reigns again and valiantly try to will his body through yet another grueling final stretch and into what the team hopes will be a long playoff run.
Unfortunately, every few weeks we can look forward to watching Nash play a step slow with his shot not falling when his back spasms flair up as they've done on a regular basis for the past season and a half. Instead of being ready to play without him, the Suns will once again suffer huge drop-offs in production.
Nash is "One Tough Canadian" and will do his best to play through it and with the Suns committed to putting the ball back in his hands, he won't have a choice.
Are the Suns built to run?
The two thinnest positions on the Suns roster are behind Shaq and Nash -- the exact two guys that are most influential to the team's success in this style. We've seen what happens when Nash goes down and we've seen how inept the Suns are on the glass without a mobile big man to step in behind Shaq.
Diaw is no longer here to play next to Amare and at least provide a dangerous front court combination and Barbosa, while improved (especially on defense), is not a point guard who can run the read and react or pick and roll sets.
The failure to address these roster holes and instead choosing to fill $13m of the salary cap with another wing gunner is perhaps the most perplexing part of all of this and speaks to the lack of vision and the ad hoc nature of what the Suns are doing.
Robert Sarver talks about the emotional ups and downs and the constant evaluation of the team. That is a great way for a floor leader to fight a battle. It is not the kind of calm strategic view needed from a great General who should be setting a vision and then constantly selling it internally and externally. Great organizations stay consistent to their core beliefs and only make minor course corrections. The constant zig zagging we've seen is a recipe for confusion and inconsistent play.
If it didn't work before, why will it work now?
Think of it this way. With the mastermind D'Antoni at the helm and playing with Marion and Diaw, the Suns weren't able to get past the 2nd round two years ago and with Shaq and Diaw last year, they didn't get out of the first round.
Now, with Gentry running the show, Nash one year older and no Diaw to help take the front court load it is difficult to believe that the Suns will somehow be able to do something they haven't done before.
Some will argue that it wasn't working anyway so they might as well go down gunning. Fair enough, but I would have rather seen the team fight their way out of the funk instead of giving in to excuses.
Will fun over come?
After the Suns traded Bell and Diaw for Jason Richardson, we had the pleasure of seeing a team whose spirits were suddenly lifted. It seemed that a weight had been removed and the locker room cancer had been excised. The Suns went 9-3 and all three of those defeats were on final possession plays. There was joy and fun and the chemistry seemed reignited.
Nash and Hill both talked about the team having "arrived." This was Terry Porter's system for that winning stretch, but then when the Suns lost two in a row to Denver and Minnesota and followed up a .500 road trip with losses to the Spurs and Bulls, the wheels came off and the finger of blame landed on the coach.
What will happen to Gentry's Suns after a couple of losses? Will they be able to overcome adversity or the inevitable injuries that all teams (except the Suns so far) have to struggle though?
This will be the ultimate test of Gentry and the mental make-up of this group. They've proven they can run from the front of the pack but they have yet to demonstrate that they can claw their way out of hole and until they do that I will remain a skeptic. No amount of early shot clock shooting will forge the kind of metal a winning team needs.
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I don't think
that Phoenix was ever capable of being a better defensive team as presently constructed, no matter which type of offense they’re using. Porter was a poor choice for this team, period, but he did take the fall for something that was everybody’s fault. The sad thing is, I doubt any of these guys are losing sleep over costing someone their job.
True
but if you do something you enjoy doing, money probably doesn’t take the sting away entirely. Especially if you were basically set up to fail in the first place.
I don't really feel that sorry for him when you put it into perspective
It’s a league where the coach is the fall guy, all the time, anyway.
Not just that, it’s a predominant theme in professional sports. In the Barclays Premier League, the biggest soccer league in the world, a third of the teams have already changed coaches(ie Managers) in half a season of play.
Moreover, as PanamaSun points out, he’s still getting paid, and will probably find gainful employment again somewhere. Granted, he was doomed to fail from the beginning, which puts as much of the blame on himself for taking the job as those who hired him, and the players who refused to show up and play for him deserved equal blame to his inability to get the best out of his players.
I understand Kerr’s “sell high and get rid of cancerous element” mentality, but J-Rich jumps right into our most overloaded position, which is simply preposterous given that we were already dangerously thin in the frontcourt, and to throw away the resurgent Diaw was pretty risky. I do buy into the “addition by subtraction” move, but note that this is clearly NOT a case of hindsight wisdom. At the time, I was voicing out that the biggest area of need was for a backup center, preferably a defensively-sound one with a mid-ranged game so that he could be used to accomodate Nash-Amare PNR, and a backup PG. Someone just like Kurt Thomas was __". Ah well. And with point guards, it’s equally difficult. It’s probably the hardest position to fill and not many teams have capable starters at the position, much less backup. Ideally you’d want a decent backup point man who can defend well, isn’t too undersized or foot-slow, can spot up for the 3, takes good care of the ball, and exerts calm, composed leadership. Given the dire lack of such personnel available, though, I’d be extremely happy with a guy who possesses reasonable skills in 3 out of those 5 qualities.
Point guards just don’t grow on trees though. Unless you’re the Bulls. They must have rigged the lottery to get themselves Derrick Rose. I wish we had Rose. Or even Rondo would have been alright. But enough of the revisionist history, I would love to look forward to trading for picks and future assets so that we could at least have a future, instead of the certainity of inevitable failure. Only in a rehashed, less efficient, less effective, and relatively stale way.
I don't know
I think he was given the job with a lot false promises and he was probably given a whole lot of lip service about how the players would be fine with a different perspective, blah, blah ,blah.
Jason Williams?
"If you're a Yankee fan, or if you're not a Yankee fan - you have to admit, we're winners." - #21
"Once the Hack-a-Shaq works once, you know I’m going to see it again. The only thing worse for basketball than that defense is the Lack-a-Shaq offense, where I have to go to the bench because of foul trouble. There is no fun in that." - The Big Aristotle
"Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what the hell you're doing." - Peyton
Shesh
Dark Side of the Sun again.
Look I know there have been articles about how we have been let down and ‘fool me once’ and all of those views. You expect failure. That is fantastic. But come on! We are in a bad economy and more than ever people need entertainment. They need those blowouts, as well as those close games. They need a competitive team that at least gives them “hope” (as you all keep mentioning only to contradict your outlook later). Considering the fact that we only beat this team by a combined 14 points the first two times we played them and then a combined 63 points these last two times (on a back to back which has been a terrible combination for us as of late even against below 500 teams). I would have to say let the people celebrate a couple of wins because as far as we know this may be the highlight of our season. Don’t cloud it with judgmental nonfactual claims that based on personnel and the past this team can’t go all the way. This team is a shadow of its former self. More than half the team has been traded. Diaw was not the front court presence you claim he was. How many times during a game did you watch Diaw pass out of a seemingly sure situation to get points and yell at the television because of a missed two that would have given us a lead? Being realistic is fine but being downright gloomy and depressed is pointless. Root your team on as you say you guys do.
It’s just the same tone every article. We lost a few playoffs series due to luck, therefor our system does not work. Now we have traded players and though we have not attempted this system with these guys we are sure based on the past that our system wont work. It wont work even though it was competitive with the team that eventually went to the playoffs most years. Boowhoo! we believed once and now we can never trust the Suns again.
I mean Really?
Really?
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi
hey look
this is my honest assessment. When the team was struggling earlier in the year I preached patience while everyone else was calling for a blow up.
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2008/11/29/675512/suns-fans-giving-up-alread
and
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2008/12/5/682447/embrace-your-inner-underdo
and lot of other times in comments etc…
If you want to believe that this team can win 20 of 29 games and make a dent in the playoffs…great. Go for it. I don’t and I think there are a lot of solid basketball reasons why not just like I thought it made sense for basketball reasons to power through the down spots early to learn and embrace those lessons.
This place is about sharing opinions and I appreciate yours. In fact, I am waiting for someone to write a fan post about why I am wrong and why this team is in fact better and will go further in the playoffs then without reverting back to this system…
and btw – Boris Diaw is a VERY good basketball player. Yes he was frustrating at times but only because he wasn’t playing as well as he could. He is a far better option next to Amare then Lou is although Lou is a great 3rd big man kind to help ignite a second unit and hold leads. The more he plays the more his game is exposed. Like I’ve said, I hope he comes back with some semblance of a jump shot and a bit more skill to go along with all he does bring. But for now, there’s really not much of a comparison.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Feb 20, 2009 8:06 AM MST up reply actions
Also...
I agree that Diaw was better than Lou and that he just didn’t put in the effort that he could have which made me dislike him that much more. I like that he was traded though, but I don’t like what we got for him. I think he was worth more.
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi
oh and
I also choose not to take the easy way out and hedge. I have an opinion as to how this is going to play out and I’ve laid it out. I hope I am wrong. We will know soon enough.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Feb 20, 2009 8:18 AM MST up reply actions
You are one of the rare few people that has a similar viewpoint as mine
Except that I’m more aggressive and uptight about being delusional and stubbornly in denial. Some of my friends who support the Suns believe beating two bottom tier teams 3 times is the recipe for an NBA championship.
I don’t beg to differ. I jump out and yell at everyone with my opinion, because I don’t like lying to myself. I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was 6 years old, using my logical faculties to deduce that he could not possibly exist. Yet so many of our fellow Suns fans are still believing in this mystical Santa Claus.
I understand
Sometimes you just have to vent?? lol.
"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time." - Vince Lombardi
Why are we assuming Porter is a good coach?
those players each have to look in the mirror and answer to themselves if they really gave Porter their best effort.
I think maybe you and I have a different perspective about NBA coaches. I think their primary job is to motivate and oversee the team. NBA players are divas and not just anyone can get them to focus. If all players could work as a unit and focus and give maximum effort without the aid of a coach, then teams wouldn’t need coaches.
Terry Porter couldn’t pull that off. I’m not saying he can’t elsewhere. But he didn’t do his job here. His job was to make the players work together and not much else and he failed. Alternatively, perhaps Steve Kerr put together a squad that can’t work together.
But the scenario where players just work together and give maximum effort by default seems to me to be pretty out of touch with the status quo of the NBA. There’s players who are exceptions to this (in both ways, some I don’t think will ever play nicely with others), but for the most part that’s why you have coaches and GMs: to gather a group of egos that might work together (and have talent) and then to make sure they do.
So I’m just really thrown off by this victimization of Porter. I mean, isn’t it possible that he’s just a bad coach? It’s not like we’re talking about Larry Brown here. He didn’t have an impressive track record, and, to be honest, I thought he sounded like an idiot in interviews.
Last: I don’t know that understand the whole “they’re professionals” bit that I’ve seen you write before (though I don’t think here). I mean, they’re professional athletes. They openly swear, fight, talk trash, and scream at officials while they’re at work. Half-naked women dance while they’re on break. That’s not exactly like working at an engineering firm. So yes they’re professionals because they get paid, but they professionally play a child’s game, so I think we should temper our expectations.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
Thank you.
I know Stan would like to lay the fault for this fiasco at the player’s doorstep, particularly Nash for not buying in and leading the way. However, consider that rumors were that Nash was the only player on the roster not up for trade in a season where the Suns were trying to send a message by sending the malcontents away. Does that sound like they felt he was inappropriately leading the charge against Porter? Think it was just about fear of losing season ticket holders? I don’t buy it for a minute—after all, Amare was one of the fans’ favorite players on the team and with just a little bit of bad PR (made worse by a bit of self-sabatoging by Amare himself), they had us fans ready to ship him out on the next flight! I’m 100% convinced that the Suns could have easily had the fans calling for Nash to be traded for a point guard who fit the Porter system better and was less of a “cancer” in the locker room if they felt he was and wanted to spin things in that direction. Maybe Nash (along with the other players and eventually Suns management) just recognized that it was a bad fit to begin with, and wanted to move on while there was still enough time to salvage the season?
Two great points...as always
On Porter “victimization”:
Here’s how I come at this. I’ve hired and fired a lot of people and any time I’ve brought someone in to lead a team it is my responsibility to make sure it is a good fit. Only I, as the hiring boss has the chance to know both the existing team and get to know the new person and make the decision. When I’ve made bad decisions about fit it is on me to own that. It is my job to to put someone in a position where they can succeed and then support them.
If the team he’s leading doesn’t give him the chance to be successful and give him a fair shake then they have some accountability as well. If you go back to the very first thing I wrote on the topic I pointed my finger at Kerr. I also agree that Porter failed in his own right to earn the respect of his team and to find a way to lead them. I think he tried his best but it was combination of him not having “it” and lack of support from his boss and players.
Porter wasn’t a good fit and I give Kerr/Sarver credit for pulling the plug. That’s a very difficult thing to do as the tendency is to give it more time. I also don’t “feel sorry” for Porter on a personal level. He’s getting his $7m so you know…he’ll be fine and all.
So, while I agree that making Porter into a martyr isn’t right, it also isn’t right to simply give the players a pass.
Professional Players: Again, a great point. They are athletes playing a game. But this is the difference between great teams and teams that aren’t able to win it all. It is part of why we celebrate our champions because it such a rare combination of factors that sets them apart.
I think as Panama Sun likes to say – Basketball doesn’t build character, it reveals it.
The character of this team has been revealed through all this and to paraphrase what Hill said recently – they are what they are. I didn’t go into this season thinking this team was more then a 6 seed at best with the remote chance of getting to the WCF.
There’s certainly nothing that has happened this season to make me think I underestimated their chances. I do think in my humble opinion, that their best chance to do the most damage in the playoffs was to develop a hybrid offensive game that was less Nash-dependent (given the reality of his back situation and how he’s been defended in the past) and to improve defensively. Any hope of greatness depending on the young star Amare doing what he said he wanted to do which was improve defensively and raise the level of his game. Those were the team’s objectives at the beginning of the year and I agreed that they gave the Suns the best chance.
That’s clearly not going to happen. Due in part to Kerr’s selection of Porter and inconsistent leadership. Due in part to Porter himself. And due in part to the players not performing on the court.
Going back to running more isn’t going to solve the underlying issues although you guys are right that it should be more fun (although I am not convinced that even this newest plan will survive a couple of game losing streak).
I find it personally interesting to explore what these issues are both on a skill, talent and system level but also on a team chemistry, leadership and character level.
Hopefully, these lessons will help when it comes time to rebuild in 2010. And by that, I mean help me judge and throw more accurate stones from my lofty perch on top of the blog world :)
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Feb 20, 2009 9:29 AM MST up reply actions
I still have the same view: this time is not going to win a championship. The window is closed. Yeah, they should have started rebuilding and I don’t think Amare should be the piece they build around. However, I was not in favor of trading Amare for any of the crap on the table except Biedrins or Beasley, and since those went away, I’m glad they stood pat. I think right now, it’s all about just making the end of the season fun rather than a giant ball of frustration. Sports are supposed to be a way for us all to get away from the daily stresses of “real life” and the Suns as presently constituted are much more likely to do that than the team that took the court for the first half of the season. I was sickened watching the Suns with Terry Porter. I like watching the players smiling and enjoying playing the game. When I’ve had a difficult day at work where I’ve had to worry about possible unemployment, cut wages, my property taxes skyrocketing even though my house value has plummeted, etc., I like to watch basketball as a little bit of a reprieve. I had a lot more fun watching the past two games than the first 51.
The Suns can’t truly rebuild until next season (if they use Nash and Shaq’s expiring contracts as trading chips) or the offseason of 2010 (if they just let them expire), so I’m not too worried about things until then. If they continue down the same path, even though they’re presented with a great opportunity to start fresh, then I’ll start calling for Kerr and Sarver’s heads.
by jburning on Feb 20, 2009 8:25 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
I'd say this comment is just about right on.
The Suns peaked two years ago. Now we’re just biding our time until we can begin to rebuild. We haven’t done the best job so far (Robin Lopez was a short-sighted pick), but you know at least this is getting entertaining and we’ll have a lot of movable assets next year.
Let’s just hope we can get back in the 2010 draft.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
Yeah, I was excited about Dragic as well, reading about reports of him holding Parker
Robin Lopez was touted by numerous scouts and execs as being the twin with more potential, and likelier to have an “NBA impact”. Frankly, his numbers and performances in college kinda meant the hype was unreasonably overrated, but hey, there have been numerous guys that people hyped up but turned out to be humongous flops. C’mon, there were more than a handful of people who believed Bogut and Kwame would become top 10 centers in the league.
Also
there have been many – most actually – big men that came in and did nothing their roookie season only to get a lot better in a year or two or three…
In Robin I still believe…but not in Santa
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Feb 21, 2009 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Can we treat ourselves as the 06-07 Warriors?
Heck of a fun to watch, borderline playoff team, lots of star power, a kind of flawed system, made history when winning ONE round of playoffs… everyone loved that team!
I guess it’d be much easier to feel good if the memories of the last 4 years were erased.
I really appreciate this post
I don’t think this qualifies as Dark Side of the Sun Material – it’s well thought out. First time I’ve heard such a in depth explanation of the more pessimistic view.
I have more thoughts better explaining why this system could work, but a few quick questions first -
Who can’t we beat in the playoffs?
Seriously? The Lakers and the Spurs would be the toughest, but we have played them extremely close this season. We could (not probably) beat them.
The Rockets and Hornets are crumbling, nobody on the Jazz can stay healthy, The Nuggets have no post presence to stop Amare, and I am totally unafraid of the Mavs or Blazers. I’m not saying we are going to win it all – but I think it is important, for optimism’s sake, to realize this. We’re not like the 7 and 8 seeds in the east, who are guaranteed destruction.
Secondly, I want to agree with jburning’s post – Rebuilding next year is 100 times more feasible, when Shaq’s contract turns into Shaq’s expiring contract.
Third, I also just got the news about Amare- but it’s 8 weeks, and he should be back for the playoffs.
4th – we might as well have fun. I loved the 07 warriors.

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