Trade Amare? For Whom? For What Purpose?
I know this topic has been done to death, but I wanted to put it all in one place for discussion. I also wanted to chime in with my two cents' worth. If I'm missing something on any of the players discussed or if I missed a guy or two to discussion, leave your scathing comments for me.
I'm also looking at essentially "man-for-man" trades. I really don't want to see Amare traded for cap space, more role players and draft picks. We already have role players (Dudley, Amundson, Barnes-who-doesn't-know-his role). The draft is a bit risky and even when the Suns have used their picks, few have panned out since Amare.
The main question I have is "What would the Suns want to get for him?" Question 1b is "what are your [Suns' fans] expectations of The Big Apostrophe?"
Post your rants here; more analysis below.
First, some background. He's under contract through the 2009-2010 season. He has a player option for the 2010-2011 year. So, after 2010 he could walk. If the Suns think he's going to walk, they definitely need to trade him before the 2010 trade deadline or get nothing. From that standpoint, he doesn't NEED to be traded this year. So, WHY would the Suns trade him?
Next, discussion about the two questions, in reverse order.
"What are your [Suns' fans] expectations of The Big Apostrophe?"
If anyone thinks Amare is of the same make-up as KG or TD, you just haven't been paying attention. For all of this strengths, determination, will, tough upbringing that he overcame, he is simply not on par with the all-time greats. He has yet to drop to the level of a T-Mac or Vince Carter, but he's definitely never going to be in the highest echelon of NBA players.
At worst, he's one of the top offensive players in the NBA that can finish at the rim, hit jumpers, make his free throws and deliver clutch hoops in crunch time. At worst, he's a poor rebounder that is often out of position on defense who is prone to unnecessary fouls and silly technicals. At worst, he gets 15 points and 5 rebounds and an assist or two without trying (and he hasn't been trying much lately).
Given this as his "worst" how many other players in the leauge are better than this "worst"? Duncan, Garnett, Howard and ...
On any given night, other PFs/Cs in the leauge are better than him, but would the Suns want any of those players? Therefore, "What would the Suns want to get for him?"
Dirk Nowitzki? Would that really help? I think not. On Dirk, exactly how much better of a rebounder and defender is he than Amare? Not much. Even in his MVP season, I don't know that Dirk is leaps and bounds ahead of Amare.
Carlos Boozer? He is a great player, but he has peaked. He is a tough guy and I kind of think I might like him on this team. He has been injured recently, however, and does have a history of renegging on his word. Could Aaron Nelson fix the former? Does Sarver/Kerr have the ability of Colangelo in regard to personality?
Chris Bosh? Why would the Suns trade for a skinnier, slightly less explosive player? How does this help?
Rasheed Wallace? A guy with post moves, a three-point shot and good defense. He's also in the last year of a contract that is $2M below Amare's. Cap relief this year and next. He's also a Detroit player and may get along better with Porter. He gets a few more techs than Amare, but I'd say that's pretty close to a wash. Could he play alongside Shaq? Probably. He can stay on the perimeter on offense when Shaq is in and help on defense in the paint.
My thoughts (as of today) are that Wallace is the only guy that makes sense to trade for, if a trade is going to happen. I don't know that Detroit would do it, though. You want AI and STAT on the same team? And, take on another big contract? Not so sure.
I just don't see any other realistic trade making this team better.
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Comments
you could have
Rob Kurz and Anthony Randolph from my Warriors if you all don’t want your all star PF Amare Stoudemire. How can you even begin to consider trading a player of his caliber. yall don’t want him, we’ll take him!!
Frisco n*ggaz ain't no punks!
by ItsDatFriscoSwag415 on Feb 5, 2009 11:36 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Kind of my point
All the trade talk but who makes the team better?
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Feb 5, 2009 12:35 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been thinking about Rasheed...
It seems like a good choice, for all the reasons you stated, plus, he’ll phase out when our current starters are gone.
plus weneedrasheed.com is available!
by presbot on Feb 5, 2009 12:43 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Oklahoma
Chris Wilcox
Joe Smith
Earl Watson
for Amare and Lopez
solid buckup pg, solid pf
by Dempson_PL on Feb 5, 2009 12:42 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
that's actually decent
plus it exiles amare to a team that will never amount to anything. and durant and amare will never ever, under any circumstances figure out how to co-exist.
so thats why you trade amare: to exile him.
by stingy d on Feb 5, 2009 1:02 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Good but.....
Lose Watson (overpaid for a b/u pg)
Add Green
Forget about moving Lopez (Kerr likes this kid)
by Mike in AZ on Feb 5, 2009 3:17 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with trading Amar'e...but
Do we really want someone else that wants touches? It’s clearly a simple solution; we need a back up point guard. Period. Whether it be an all-defensive kind of one or one that will be “the man” and step up. Dragic will grow and excel with more time so he needs a little more time to adapt to NBA level basketball. Once we acquire a back up point guard, then we need to find our Raja Bell/Shawn Marion defender. We need help on the defensive end. We got tons of fire power, but we have to stop the other team to use it. That’s just my two cents, however getting Rasheed would be A-M-A-Z-I-N-G, but Detroit would never go for that.
by CrazyRob on Feb 5, 2009 2:05 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
Another guard?
Trading Amare for a guard would leave HUGE hole in the frontcourt and dash any hopes of any amount of success this season.
IF he’s traded, then it has to be for a big.
I’d kind of like to see Wallace, but agree that from a Detroit perspective it would be a bad trade.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Feb 5, 2009 4:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Why now
You know I have been preaching patience and saying that the risk of doing a bad deal now is greater then waiting to let the season play out.
The worse the team plays (and clearly its a chemistry issue now) the more I tend to think otherwise.
The point of trading Amare sooner is to get more value. If we wait until summer there will be other free agents to “compete” with and more important a team will look at Amare and understand that they would only be certain to get him for 1 year.
So, unless it’s a sign and trade (which I think is possible if Amare agrees to it) his trade value decreases as time goes on.
If you are a bad team like the Kings you would give up more now to have Amare for the rest of this season plus all of next season then to just have him (guaranteed) for next season only.
This is also why we aren’t going to get equal value for him unless it’s a guy who’s contract is also expiring like Rasheed or Bosh. But then the Suns get cap space but no young players.
The bottom line – there are no great options and we’ve been waiting and waiting for Amare to turn it around.
The team has tried to get him the ball more early (as of late) and that’s still not making a difference.
Amare was 1-4 in the 1st qtr last night. Shaq was 1-1. In the 3rd quarter Shaq was 4-4 while Amare was 1-1. The 7-0 run the Suns made in the 3rd to cut it to 11 was w/ Amare on the bench. Amare came in for Shaq and the Warriors went on a 12-2 run to put the game away.
Think about that. The team played it’s best stretch with Amare out and Shaq in. Then with Shaq out Amare couldn’t continue it. And btw Nash was in for the entire 3rd qtr so you can’t look at that as a difference.
I am not sure how you blame Shaq (or the coach) for that.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Feb 5, 2009 2:28 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
My issue with Shaq's time
Is not the amount, but where it comes.
15 in the first half and 6 in the second is not a good combination. I really liked the 5-6 minute start, then play him when Nash sits. Then, save his energy for the stretch run. Why have they gone away from that?
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Feb 5, 2009 4:14 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
They were in two blow out games so I think you have to account for that in his late game minutes of late
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Feb 5, 2009 7:04 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm talking about his good games, too
It’s not just recent, it’s been most of the season.
Like his “domination” of the Bucks or his slow fades in the SA games.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Feb 5, 2009 8:12 PM MST up reply actions 0 recs
A Blog a Bull visitor suggests
considering this deal.
by kingj41 on Feb 5, 2009 3:29 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I think the Suns/Sarver/Kerr/Shaq/Porter/Nash/Hill
have had enough of Amare.
He needs to go, it is obvious he has worn out his stay in the valley.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Feb 5, 2009 9:25 PM MST reply actions 0 recs
I think the comments already explicated everything but the common retort that
Dirk’s numbers right now are as almost as good as his MVP season. On top of that, Dirk is a very mature player.
Bosh produces much better than Stat in every aspect of the game (albeit w/o the explosive dunks). He plays much better defense and rebounds better.
Personally, I’d love to see Bosh in Phoenix
by Azrael on Feb 6, 2009 2:24 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
I am with you
Amare is turning himself into a self promotion machine, which does nothing but harm to a team and a franchise.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Feb 6, 2009 6:40 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Bosh
I’m not very highly aware of him, and I only commented what I’ve seen. I’ll take your word for it, but from what I’ve seen, it’s a wash.
Dirk? Realy? That much better than Amare? Other than he and Nash are great buds, what would he add? Irrelevant, though, as he’s not going anywhere.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Feb 6, 2009 7:47 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Bosh 51 51 38.2 .496 .300 .808 2.60 6.90 9.50 2.4 .78 .90 2.41 2.50 22.7
Amar’e Stoudemire 47 47 36.9 .537 .429 .832 2.10 6.00 8.10 2.0 1.00 1.06 2.87 3.20 21.0
Dirk Nowitzki 47 47 37.4 .478 .376 .913 1.10 7.30 8.30 2.4 .68 .72 2.09 2.00 25.6
I think if it’s based on stats this season, Amar’e would be the oddman out. Dirk may be getting older but he’s still producing very good. He’s been carrying the Mavs throughout the season. While Dirk may be irrelevant, I think the question is assuming it is possible, should the Suns trade for him, not if the Suns could. While Dirk might not be a better rebounder or defender, the guy plays a lot more consistent offense than Amar’e. Bosh, on the other hand produces better than Amare n most of the stats. Add to that he is younger and effort wise (this season), he’s doing better.
Basically, I think the Bosh and Dirk may be better than Amar’e based on playing different kinds of offensive schemes. Seeing that Amar’e grew under SSOL and is having a hard time adapting to the offensive lenses of the conventional system.
by Azrael on Feb 6, 2009 8:10 AM MST reply actions 0 recs
Can’t see the Raps giving up Bosh for Amare. Amare is what a future Bosh worst case scenario would be.
Bite the bullet take 2 firsts, most of the proposed trades will not make better.
Look at what Stan pointed out above, let the young guys show what they can or can’t do.
by overthere on Feb 6, 2009 9:02 AM MST up reply actions 0 recs


















