Nash: Suns didn't deserve playoffs. Winning not a priority in decision to stay

by Seth Pollack on Apr 16, 2009 3:31 AM MDT in Phoenix Suns News

In his post season press conference Steve Nash talked once again about his frustration with the Suns season saying, "It's been a tough year. It's been a lot to deal with. It's definitely tested our patience and toughness."

Nash talked about the improvement the team has made since Gentry replaced Porter but when I asked him about the missed opportunities over the past few weeks (under Gentry) that would have made the difference between the lottery and the playoffs he didn't seem too disappointed and instead expressed the bright side of not stepping up in those crucial situations.

"I don't think we deserved it. We didn't play well enough and it wasn't meant to be for us. I don't think we necessarily did what it took to get there. All I can say about that is maybe it's better we didn't make it and gloss over some of our deficiencies and some of the improvements we need to make. We squeeze in to the playoffs and every one says 'ah it wasn't so bad, everything's ok' whereas now we will have to take a really good look at everything individually and collectively so we put ourselves in a better position."

It is not clear exactly what specific improvements he has in mind but he did feel that with a full season under Gentry with everyone playing one way that the Suns would be a much better team. He also didn't discount the need to improve defensively adding,

"We need to add a few defenders to our mix. A couple of guys who's forte is defense. Active big guys that can take up a lot of space with their athleticism and energy. Easier said then done."

Talking about his own future, Steve said he feels great and wants to solidify the rest of his career, hopefully in Phoenix. There are factors involved in that but winning isn't priority in making the decision.

"If we are contender that's where everyone wants to be but I think right now I would be happy just to be part of a really positive and optimistic atmosphere. Be part of team that is really on the same page, plays together, plays hard every night and makes the season exciting for one another and for the fans. You may say I am lowering my expectations but I think that's a great place to start.,,,Sometimes its difficult to start playing the band aid game and always just trying to put a band aid over a problem. For me, I would be happy to be in Phoenix on a team that has great energy and chemistry and everyone's pulling together and playing for one another. That for me would be fine and undoubtedly we would be successful with that type of atmosphere regardless of how much talent we had."

Nash isn't the only Suns player that expressed a desire to keep the team together under Alvin Gentry. Both Grant Hill and Shaquille O'Neal expressed their support for Gentry as did Amare Stoudemire yesterday.

Fortunately for them, there seems little doubt that Kerr and Sarver will bring Gentry back.

As for improvements, Shaq agreed that the team needed to improve defensively saying, "You have to want to play defense. That being said, you have to help everyone out and everyone has to be on the same page. We're not going to make excuses. We just have to learn from this."

He went on to explain why he thought the Suns weren't that far from being a contending team.

"We just need everyone to be healthy and develop one style and be consistent. You can't change in the middle of the year and expect to go pretty far. We let a lot of games slip away. We weren't full strength physically or mentally....We were up and down many times this year. We're not using that as an excuse but whenever your jibbily jabbily like that you won't make it far."

You will be happy to learn that Grant Hill, voted the Suns MVP by our readers, is very interested in coming back next year and sees himself playing a couple more seasons.

"I plan on being here. I love the team, the organization, the community. Registration for my daughters schools we already filled it out and put a deposit in. I plan on being here."

I think it is very interesting to listen to how the team's four leaders have talked about this season and to hear their insight into what's gone wrong and what can be done to improve the team.

Nash audio

Shaq audio

Hill audio

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I wish Nash could give some answers to what he did or said for this game:

What example was he setting for this team?

Passive defiance to playing defense or for Porter? Padding stats in easy games?

""I thought the turning point was when they started to go post-up Kidd and we just had some mental breakdowns." Explained Grant who was 8 -12 for 23 points which is 21 points more then the We Believe crew. Or is that the We Belove crew? We Believed? We Used to Once Believe? Anyway…

Speaking of defense, I take a lot of crap for daring to say anything negative about a certain two-time MVP and all around great guy but did anyone else have the sense that Nash was not all that interested in playing beyond April 15th? Is that just me being overly harsh or did you all see that too?

We are know he’s not a great defensive player and that’s fine. But how does it look to the rest of the team when the “leader” and “floor general” stops even trying. Take for example the 8:15 mark of the 1st period when the game was in the pre-laughable stage and Steve hit a high screen set by Dirk. Most players at that point follow their man into the lane and at least try and bother the shooter or get into position for a rebound. Great defensive players fight hard through the screen and bother their man so much that they can’t get a clean shot off. Very few simple stop and watch their man go uncontested to the rim. And that wasn’t the only time but hey, let’s not saying anything bad about the guy that brought fun back to the desert.

At least he didn’t take it too hard. After the game he was seen all smiles congratulating Jason Kidd for “..put[ting] us out of our misery.”"

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/4/6/824137/say-goodbye-to-hollywoodelvis-has

by magenta on Apr 16, 2009 3:38 AM MDT reply actions

I don't understand the point of this post

You just copy/paste Stan after a tough loss. Let me copy/paste something for you:

Nash is the first player in NBA history to record 50% field goals, 40% 3-pointers and 90% free throws over three seasons

Let the Suns trade him because it’ll be really easy to get a PG that can finish a season with this numbers and at the same time average +9 dimes per game.

"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"

by PanamaSun on Apr 16, 2009 7:24 AM MDT up reply actions

Let's not forget, he missed getting 50/40/90 in a 4th season by a single free throw.

What does this mean?? Not much, except if you’re going to use statistical quirks to aggrandize the career of an all time great like Larry Bird, then you have to allow the same consideration for others who meet or exceed the same standard.

Anyway, complaining about Steve Nash’s man defense is a little like complaining that the Pacific Ocean is wet. As a GM/Coach you know what you’re getting up front, and it’s up to you to put together a team and a scheme that minimizes those weaknesses, and maximizes his strengths (you know, just like Mike D did) like his team defense. Just like the Spurs deal with Tim Duncan’s poor free throw shooting, etc…

I’d also point out that if Nash got credited for a steal every time he took a charge (which is only fair imho, since the opposing player gets charged with a turnover), and he gets one or two a game, easy, he’d average ~3 steals/game. In 5 years we’d be talking about a guy his defensive stats in the same reverential terms we reserve for people like Stockton or Rodman.

Even though I think he still has it, providing you put him in a system where he can be moving with the ball in his possession, I’m in favor of trading Steve.

Why? because I think this team has a probable horizon of one year, before Shaq moves on, and at most three years (which I think is unlikely). Steve deserves a final chance to contend for a title.

Moreover, this team has become fragmented, with a lot of talent (and young talent), but pieces that don’t fit together in harmony. And it’s going to take time to put things together again, and you have to make the best with what you have. I think, fundamentally, Amare is now almost untradeable for fair value, both because he’s a me-first knucklehead and because he’s injury prone. So, you almost have to build around him, because there’s no real alternative.

So, I’d be inclined to bite the bullet, and start to rebuild now. Then, after next season, when we have the salary space freed up by Shaq & Nash gone, we’ll be able to go after a few free agents, or maybe sign an elite player.

Once the Lakers, Celtics & Spurs are done (which will be in the next 2 years, imho), I think we’re moving back into an era, where a team can have a single all-star/true superstar, and the degree to which a team can contend will depend entirely on how good you can make the rest of the squad with mid-level salary type players. You can already see that in teams like the Trail Blazers, Jazz and the Cavs.

Under those circumstances, any team that has a strong foundation, will be able to contend with the acquisition of a single player.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2009 12:00 PM MDT up reply actions

Damn Magenta, Those are some ICY feelings towards Nash

Lets face it, theres alot room for improvement on this team. And there are a lot of decisions that need to be made on the direction of this team. Nash vs. Shaq cohesion is a crucial debate. What to do with Amare, and Richardson is another

But my overall feeling you cant expect everybody on the team to be amazing both defensively and offensively. Thats like saying everybody at the office has to do everybody jobs at the same time. The world doesn’t work that way, neither do sports teams. Parker is not good at individual defense either. But should the spurs trade him? The spurs do play better team defense, and they have key roles that everybody relies on.

The game involves working with the pieces you have and trying create a system that works. The suns have a lot of options but it seems like they havent developed unified roles yet. And I think you can blame Porter a lot for fucking with Team identity early on. Also they clearly need a few more athletic tenacious defenders and rebounders. The team with Shaq and richardson is alot different than Diantoni’s. Hell if the suns would traded amare for Kevin Garnett instead of shaq for marion. Its possible that we would have destroyed every team in the nba. Also I think its notable to point out that the last 25 games of Dantoni and Shaq last year, the suns looked like they were starting to play really good ball.

(Shaq and Barbosa) & (Nash and Amare) gives them two offensive systems and that you could strategize around. Shaq does give us an X factor, but Im questioning if he can fit in a secondary role, and he does play bad team defense which unfortunatley kind of limits Nash and Amares effectiveness.

If Gentry implemented what they are doing now form the start, and amare was with us for the season, this could have been. a whole different season. I wonder if we should just try to trade Jason richardson for possibly any useful fast defense role player we can get and a pick.

I think thats kind of off-base to criticize Nash reactions to the Kidds game. I mean he is one of the most candid, intellingent, honest personalities in the entire. You know he actually gives a shit about things other than his own Would you rather have him go back to locker room and complain about touches, or start complimenting your self as allstar while throwing the rest of the team under the bust.
You know there is the possibillity that teams will pitch for Nash. But I doubt they will trade him.

by lightofday on Apr 16, 2009 8:36 AM MDT up reply actions

- 2 : Damn me for bringing up someone's observations?

The whole point I brought it up is this defeatise attitude I see for the 1st time in Nash.

The last game against Dallas is a must win game and it was clear he didn’t seem interested in leading the team to win, as compared to Kidd. I don’t even want to mention the other games where Nash just mailed it in. Fact.

How can he motivate people on the floor like that?

Amare gets his ass hauled over the fire for ANY game he does not play well and with energy. And you all knowing fans give Nash a get out of jail card half the times.

No wonder this team don’t really play defense or hold themselves accountable when they don’t play well. Their floor leader and his supporters have made it quite clear they are all for double standards and lip service when it comes to defensive effort.

by magenta on Apr 16, 2009 8:44 AM MDT up reply actions

I'm not sure you really pay attention.

I haven’t heard any excuses unless phrases and quotes like: “yes I play bad defense, yes we need to improve on team defense, and yes we didn’t deserve it” is an excuse? You are entitled to your opinion. But you can’t expect us to jump on the bandwagon if we don’t manipulate the statistics and view of the game in the same way you do. This team is full of veterans. I don’t think that motivation was the problem in any of these situations.

TO THE NBA - " Yeah, you have created a rift within me ; Now there have been ; several complications ; that have left me feeling nothing ; I might say, you were ; wrong to take it from me ; Left me feeling nothing " - Disturbed, "Numb"

by antiw0rm on Apr 16, 2009 11:27 AM MDT up reply actions

Oh you.

by Azreous on Apr 16, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions

Nash, Hill, Shaq

I love Nash, I just wonder why with his quickness he so bad on defense. Stockton was excellent in the pick n roll on offense and he is the all time leader in steals. I wonder why Nash doesnt put the time in on D.

I am also happy with Hill and Shaq’s season, but lets face it, Phoenix has got to get younger. They went into the year talking about resting Nash and Shaq on back to backs and limited both their minutes along with Hill. You cant run a team that way knowing they cant play in back to backs.

Hill if you take the vet minimum you can stay but they cant pay you 5 million, they need that to sign a defender like Trevor Ariza.

Same with Shaq, that 20 million is eating into their cap and teams just run a pick and roll with him all day cause he cant come out beyond the free throw line. Phoenix has got to get more athletic at center also and that means moving Shaq and freeing up at least 10 million to throw at David Lee.

Also Gentry needs a defensive assistant. I know I’m wishing here, but maybe Sarver pays more than Boston and gets Tom Thibadeau like they wanted to do 2 years ago.

by Lefty3 on Apr 16, 2009 6:09 AM MDT reply actions

I would imagine that Hill understands he’s not going to get more than the vet’s minimum if he stays in Phoenix, considering how profile the team’s salary problems have been this year. I agree we need to get younger, but I think a quality, respectable veteran like Hill has to stick around, at least as a mentor.

by jburning on Apr 16, 2009 7:02 AM MDT up reply actions

Nashs Defense.

Is no good because he isn’t strong enough to fight through screens. Usually by the time he gets through screens the opposing guard has made the turn already and that leaves Nash behind. A lot of that becomes the fault of his team as it is their job to warn, and or, manipulate the offensive player they are guarding as to avoid having your point guard get screened 4 times in one possession. A lot of people see basketball as 1 on 1 guard your man. Not many people realize there is a lot of strategy and such that goes into these games.

by antiw0rm on Apr 16, 2009 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions

Nash is quick on offense,

but he has never had outstanding lateral quickness, which is different. His age has most likely slowed him down a little too.

So just adding to antiw0rms point, he has a few things working against him on the defensive end; strength to fight around screens and lateral quickness to stay in front of younger, quicker PG’s. Asking Nash to shut down top PG’s by himself is like asking Shaq to show/trap on the pick and roll D.

by brian13 on Apr 16, 2009 12:13 PM MDT up reply actions

Nash's defensive liability is the same as his offensive liability.

His problem is that he’s slow when starting to move, i.e going from not moving his feet, to being in motion.

On the offensive side, Nash shines when he can be in constant motion (eg. fast break, 1/2 court pick & roll, probe & roll, penetrate & dish), and is sub-average when standing still (1/2 court, dump ball into post offense)

Also, I should point of that part of Nash’s problem over the last few years has been the need to conserve energy on the defensive end, just because of how much energy he expended on the offense. But without Trix & Raja to help out, this season, he’s been unable to do that.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 16, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions

As long as our PG does not play defense, this team won't be able to play real team defense

by magenta on Apr 16, 2009 8:46 AM MDT reply actions

Or keep it up for long. Everyone is always waiting for the Suns to fall apart

in every game. We are pleasantly surprised only when they don’t.

by magenta on Apr 16, 2009 8:46 AM MDT reply actions

Shesh... I highly doubt

That you can find a reasonable replacement that will perform better in this current situation. Getting rid of Nash (defense or not) would result in absolute failure. Right now this team has a chance to be a contender next year and with the right moves many years to come with only missing this seasons playoffs. Trading Nash because he lacks the ability to fight through screens or size to stop a larger person from backing him down would be detrimental. You can point fingers and play the blame game all you want. It comes down to the fact that TEAM is the word here. It is a TEAM sport and 1 man cannot cause you to miss the playoffs if you have a good TEAM.

by antiw0rm on Apr 16, 2009 11:35 AM MDT up reply actions

Any word on Hill?

I hope he stays here another year, the man is a stud!

by AcucracK on Apr 16, 2009 11:59 AM MDT reply actions

It's not pointing fingers but the fact remains the good PGs have Nash's number

4 years of the same style and even ageing Jason Kidd knows how to take Nash and the Suns off their game. Can Nash adjust his game to this?

It’s not just Nash’s defensive lackings or whether he is maintaining his statistics. His heart has gone somewhere else.

You all are still avoiding the point I raised. In the most important game of this season i.e. last game about Dallas, Nash played poorly and with little motivation.

True franchise players will find a way to step it up to carry the team.

They won’t do things like what the reviewer of that game noticed about Nash:

“But how does it look to the rest of the team when the "leader" and "floor general" stops even trying. Take for example the 8:15 mark of the 1st period when the game was in the pre-laughable stage and Steve hit a high screen set by Dirk. Most players at that point follow their man into the lane and at least try and bother the shooter or get into position for a rebound. Great defensive players fight hard through the screen and bother their man so much that they can’t get a clean shot off. Very few simple stop and watch their man go uncontested to the rim. And that wasn’t the only time but hey, let’s not saying anything bad about the guy that brought fun back to the desert.

At least he didn’t take it too hard. After the game he was seen all smiles congratulating Jason Kidd for "..put[ting] us out of our misery.""

> > I still remember the Nash that was so clutch when we were almost blown away by Kobe and his Lakers in 2006 and in any other must win play off series.

Buit Nash is losing his heart for playing with the Suns this season.

You all can deny this if you want but this is happening. Nash is not a clutch player these days, regardless of his stats, in the must win games of this season. How can our team depend on a franchise player if his attitude is becoming so unreliable? That is why the Lakers win was so important because everyone manned up, played together, instead of relying on Nash to bail them out. With Nash around, this type of team attitude won’t be the norm.

Before someone else mentions his stats again, I like to bring out Rajon Rondo. His stats suck but everyone knows that his energy and fire, despite his poor jumpers, are the key things that help Boston win, along with the 101 things he does that you don’t see on the stats sheet.

And if you all keep insisting that Nash can still meet or exceed his career highs in his stats, then you should bear in mind that this then is the time to trade him.

Because no one knows if he can do it for how much longer?

Nash made me love the Suns and it is not easy for me to criticise him but he is part of the old order. We need a team play centered on the younger players and the few vet players that play their heart out day in and out like Grant Hill.

by magenta on Apr 16, 2009 5:10 PM MDT reply actions

Nash's quote in this thread helps explain how Nash played in the last Dallas game

…. he didn’t seem too disappointed and instead expressed the bright side of not stepping up in those crucial situations.

“I don’t think we deserved it. We didn’t play well enough and it wasn’t meant to be for us. I don’t think we necessarily did what it took to get there. All I can say about that is maybe it’s better we didn’t make it and gloss over some of our deficiencies and some of the improvements we need to make. We squeeze in to the playoffs and every one says ‘ah it wasn’t so bad, everything’s ok’ whereas now we will have to take a really good look at everything individually and collectively so we put ourselves in a better position.”

====

If Nash or our team was not that interested getting into play-offs, they should let us know in advance because people won’t be so critical about the standard of play in “EXHIBITION GAMES”.

by magenta on Apr 16, 2009 5:40 PM MDT reply actions