Shaq wants to slim down and be the change the Suns seek

by Seth Pollack on Apr 19, 2009 2:50 PM MDT in Phoenix Suns News

One of the talking points out of the Suns camp over the last few days of the season was about improving the pick and roll defense with active, mobile big men. All indications point to Shaq wanting to be that man.

Steve Kerr said last week, "One of the things you have to do in this league is you have to have active big guys. There's a reason Boston was so good defensively...Those guys jump out on pick and rolls, they trap, they recover and protect the rim...We're trying to get more mobile on the interior."

Trying to get more mobile on the interior? That can only mean two things. Amare getting better at what he already has the physical ability to do and/or Shaq getting more physically able to be more mobile.

Shaq has talked a lot about his diet this season and if you haven't noticed has already looked slimmer towards the end of the year then he did at the beginning.

In the last two meaningless Suns games of the season we even saw Shaq jumping out on the pick and rolls and switching screens. In other words, trying to be the change the Suns seek.

I am kicking myself for not asking Coach Gentry about it when I had the chance, but my game notes and Tivo confirm Shaq doing something we haven't seen all season long.

The story gets a little more interesting when you factor in this quote from Suns reserve forward Jared Dudley. I was talking to Jared after his official end of season exit interview when he said this in response to a question about how the Suns can get better.

"Shaq, he was telling me that he was trying to change his body. I think that if Shaq lost 15 or 20 pounds, you know he's already dominating and he told me he wants to lean up. I think that's only going to make him faster and injury-free."

Following up on the story today, I tweeted Shaq's social media consultant and former Suns Director of Digial Media, Amy Jo Martin. I asked her to confirm Shaq's intention to slim down.

Her response:

@phoenixstan Yes, @The_Real_Shaq confirmed he has BIG goals: http://tinyurl.com/ctdzqr Expect to hear more about this endeavor. .

Here's the video from Shaq that Amy linked to where Shaq talked about becoming a "super model":

Supermodel career begins fri on 12seconds.tv

Maybe Shaq really is on a quest to be America's Next Top Model, but my money is on him trying to drop below 300 lbs so he can increase his mobility, stamina and health.

With the development of Robin Lopez, Shaq can afford to use more energy on the defensive end knowning that he won't be called on to delivery big minutes every night.

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Comments

what about trades?

do you think Kerr would want to keep shaq if he slimmed down and became better at the pick and roll, or do you think “more active big men” means someone other than shaq and amare?

by PHXgp on Apr 19, 2009 3:33 PM MDT reply actions

Yes

I think he wants all of that and has no idea what deals he’s going to do. He’s set goals for the team and now is going to go out and see how he can make that happen with trades, player development, all of it.

I still think that Kerr doesn’t have a specific set of trades in mind and that he will explore all options. My hunch is that no one is going to offer anything for Shaq that is more valuable then his expiring contract and whatever he brings back next season. I think Nash will likely be extended and Hill will be back.

I would guess JRich and Amare would be the first to go if anyone does but who knows what other teams might be willing to offer.

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Seth Pollack on Apr 19, 2009 4:35 PM MDT reply actions

ok, interesting

I could be okay with that scenario. I’ve always though shaq and amare wouldn’t work together. Get rid of one or the other, and if shaq gets slimmer and in better shape, next year could be just as good for him or even better than this year, plus he may play more games. I think a lot next year hinges on the development of our younger guys, who got a lot of playing time this year under Gentry. Robin Lopez, specifically, needs to do some quickness and footwork drills, and dragic needs to go one-on-one with grant hill for 10 minutes each practice to work on dealing with pressure defense.

by PHXgp on Apr 19, 2009 5:05 PM MDT up reply actions

makes you wonder....if Lopez had as many minutes this year as his brother did playing

How much better would he be…of course…this is after the nba cancels the 6 foul limit so lopez could’ve actually stayed in the game longer….I joke…I joke…I do like that he hustles, that he has a mean streak, that he blocks, etc…

I hope they keep hill, nash, shaq, lopez, amundson, dudley….I like barbosa, but if we could swing a great trade involving jrich and barbosa for something…but, hard to let go of barbosa

guess it’s just jrich and barnes…and see what’s there for amare…..all sorts of angles on amare

1. He was out, so he’d possibly be anxious to play with mainly the same group to show what a difference maker he is
2. He was mad about being shopped around in a few possible trade proposals, and wants out
3. His injuries…healed or not…when a player misses as much as he has in the last few years, that hurts his trade value…open for debate on how much…but it does hurt it

by be-the-ball on Apr 19, 2009 11:25 PM MDT up reply actions

Yup

Brooke was obviously drafted in front of Robin for a reason, but judging the way him AND Goran (the entire bench) improved in the 20+ games under Gentry, it’s easy to wonder what they could have looked like at the end of the season.

by brian13 on Apr 20, 2009 12:29 AM MDT up reply actions

Why don't Amare and Shaq work together?

Amare was a complete beast a year ago playing next to Shaq, and repeated the performance under Gentry before the retina problem. Amare and Shaq work great together (offensively) when it’s not a slow-down offense

by UASun on Apr 20, 2009 1:47 PM MDT up reply actions

That is becos O Neal wants to be the Man in the paint, not Amare's side kick any more.

Things much better in the remaining half of the season after the trade when Shaq made it clear that Amare was the franchise player and Amare delivered over 20 points, close to 10 rebounds while leading the team in blocks.

The wins under Gentry are mostly against minus.500 teams where everyone can shoot their fill but it is fool’s gold as several of the posters here noticed.

I see it as SSOL Redux with 2 times less defence and double up on the wishful thinking that ot can bring a patch-work team deep into the play-offs.

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 8:12 PM MDT up reply actions

Without Amare

any realistic chance of the playoffs was mostly fools’ gold.

But that’s not on Gentry.

by Azreous on Apr 21, 2009 11:56 AM MDT up reply actions

Steve Kerr has a difficult job ahead..

If Bobby S. is willing to absorb the salaries for one more year, and hold this team together, then that is probably the easiest option for Kerr.

If, otoh, he needs to shed salaries, he doesn’t have much leeway, especially if he’s going to re-sign Steve Nash. Because JRich is under contract (and after Shaq, Amare and Nash, that’s the only substantial $10M+ contract left on the books that Kerr can play with) , that salary can’t just be dumped, and has to be traded to another team for near equal value, and at this stage, there are no expiring contracts for next season (i.e anyone one you can sign, either has a contract or an option for next season).

Trading Amare is going to be difficult, because of the injuries and general knuckleheadedness. I don’t know, realistically, what trade could be made.

But, if Shaq is serious about becoming the Big Skinny (we’ll have to start calling him Tiny), and gets more mobile than this year, it’s possible to get into a less is more type scenario, where you give up some of Amare’s offensive capability for defense and mobility at the 4, because Shaq is going to make space for them. And hopefully, the second piece of that trade can help fill at the 2 & 3 spots. In that sitch, Kerr would have far more options.

I’d say this in Steve Kerr’s defense: his draft selections, and his bench trades have proven themselves, over time, to be far sounder than we gave him credit for.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 19, 2009 5:16 PM MDT reply actions

No offense but the jury is still out on Kerr's drafts and selling of picks.

by magenta on Apr 19, 2009 6:34 PM MDT up reply actions

i don't think so

I’ve read in too many places, and feel myself from what I’ve seen (energy from the bench) that Kerr has done a fair job with the bench players (chosen by him)…remember though, the bench only recently got any playing time, gentry is much better at playing the bench than porter was..

Hard though to make room for the bench when you have “Hill – Amare – Shaq – Nash” on your team – old or not

I think there’s 2 really big problems

1. Currently looking at so much $$$ over the cap and paying the big tax…I’d let go of Nash…not that I want to, but why spend so much for a team that didn’t make the playoffs
2. What do we have as a team??? Honestly, with Amare being out, where would we be if Amare played the entire season? That’s the million dollar question…

Because if the team believes we’d be a 3 or 4 seed, or better, then I can see the chance of keeping Amare – Shaq – and Nash, so….not so much what we believe, but what does Kerr and Sarver believe,

Me….I don’t know….it’s kind of like how nash and shaq have played together…not so great….I see having amare this last season as not getting us to 3 or 4 seed, but likely into the playoffs…maybe as a 7 or 8 seed….If amare was the defensive player he could be, it’d be a different story

by be-the-ball on Apr 19, 2009 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions

I liked how Shaq & Nash were starting to play together towards the end of the season.

They had their moments of confusion, too.
And it took way too long to happen. Was Amare really that much of an obstacle ?

If this team sticks together, we’ll be back somewhat to the old days. Which means we’ll win enough regular season games to place strongly in the playoffs, but the horizon is less clear, wrt our progress through the postseason, as always.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 19, 2009 11:59 PM MDT up reply actions

They played better towards the end in the last season with Amare performing well

The team was starting to heat up as well just before the Spur series but needed time to become consistent.

Porter’s system, which marginalised Amare’s role, was the obstacle to everyone playing well. Nash himself said it that he seems to just need to throw the ball to Shaq. Why are we doing this scapegoating thing again. Last time it was JJ “enuff with the buyers remorse”, Marion, then D Antoni, then Bell and Diaw…

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 2:02 AM MDT up reply actions

it's not so much scapegoating to me...

for me, its a simple question, right now, if amare was healthy, and our team was the same players…do you feel we’d have a chance in the playoffs this year? I’m not so sure we’d get anywhere….the last few years, I always felt we could win it all

by be-the-ball on Apr 20, 2009 9:19 AM MDT up reply actions

i'm not set on amare having been an obstacle

he really might have helped us be a 2-3 seed even…I agree, Nash and Shaq started having some good moments

by be-the-ball on Apr 20, 2009 9:17 AM MDT up reply actions

I may have phrased that wrong..

I thought I was being clear, but the question I was actually asking (and not apportioning blame) is whether Amare’s presence on the floor, reduced how well Nash & Shaq played together, specifically concentrating on that Nash/Shaq dynamic.

Did Amare’s injury open up passing lanes and communication opportunities that didn’t exist when he was on the floor ?

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 20, 2009 11:06 AM MDT up reply actions

Perhaps

but I think more then anything it was just time and a willingness to try

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Seth Pollack on Apr 20, 2009 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions

really ??

you don’t think from day 1 that Steve tried to get something working with Shaq ?

It always surprised me that two players as smart as Shaq and Nash couldn’t have made that work sooner. I’m hoping if Shaq is slimming down, he learns to play both sides of the pick & roll.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 20, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions

Nash & Shaq had troubles becos Nash dun pass well in half courts

while LB and GH does a better job with entry passes. To be fair, Shaq didn’t try to be very mobile in the beginning of the season but just planted himself as close to the basket and demand the ball. 10-to-1 the quicker guards in the league saw the pass coming.

However, I think Shaq adjusted his game and things got better but trying to slim down and becoming fitter won’t make him Dwight Howard. Al “I dun really do jump shots” Jeferson is what he needs to be with his repertoire of post moves down low.

Although Shaq passes well, his free throws and defence clearly showed his lack of commitment to becoming a better player. He has always be too slow or lazy to hedge the screen or help his teammate on the weak side.

His laundry list of things he needs to fix is a very long one…

With the work-in-progress defence of Shaq and Amare, we need some of our young bigs to learn to be athletic defensive bigs in the paint and perimeter. That is actually what we should focus on, rather than hoping for more upside from 35 plus vets. The Rodman and Pippen school is a good idea but I think they are playing overseas now.

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions

"less is more type scenario"

Looking back at the last 2 seasons.. I’m not sure Kerr knows that scenario.

by brian13 on Apr 20, 2009 12:33 AM MDT up reply actions

what do you mean ??

his whole career was based on that concept.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 20, 2009 1:55 AM MDT up reply actions

What are the CBA rules?

Anyone know? I’m thinking that the Suns can extend Nash, but pay him less than the $13M next year, but bumping it in years 2 and 3 of the extension. That would save money short-term and would give Nash more dough in total. Is something like that possible under the CBA?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Apr 20, 2009 12:31 PM MDT up reply actions

There may be clauses that may allow them to renegotiate pay "there's always an out in contracts"

But it won’t ameliorate matters becos we have too much salary tied up to few players.

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 8:14 PM MDT up reply actions

How much slimmer does he need to be?

He looks like he’s in great shape, and his bulk/muscle mass is a huge advantage for him on the offensive end.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Apr 19, 2009 6:37 PM MDT reply actions

oh no

if he was 290 an more mobile that would be fantastic…he’s still going to be bigger and stronger then everyone just quicker and he already has all the post moves down

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Seth Pollack on Apr 19, 2009 7:32 PM MDT up reply actions

exactly..

Rookie Shaq was a force of nature. I can’t remember how much he weighed then, but I think he was around 290, and quick.

Watching Shaq as a rookie, was like watching the 19 yr old Mike Tyson. Completely mesmerizing.

If Shaq is motivated this year to play for a new contract, which I think he is, we may see some fireworks from him.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 19, 2009 9:10 PM MDT up reply actions

If he plays anything close to ORL Shaq then we're title-bound haha

by rsavaj on Apr 19, 2009 9:32 PM MDT up reply actions

I think it's possible

Just look at his transformation this year, I think with the 290 or less, plus playing with Hill, etc….yeah, I agree….we might see something really special next year….I like dudley and amundson, but we need another quick defending guard…I wonder if barbosa could become that…he had some flashes there of defense towards the end

by be-the-ball on Apr 19, 2009 11:35 PM MDT up reply actions

He won't be Orlando Shaq..

just because he’s 36, which in the NBA is like 102 in Dog years.

But he should be a smarter Shaq, which is better, imho.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 19, 2009 11:53 PM MDT up reply actions

He needs to upgrade his offensive and defensive skill sets

The way Shaq plays depends on intimidation and on getting calls as a super star “he won’t get that when playing for Phoenix”.

He should take a look at how Wilt Chamberlain adjusted his game to help the Lakers win in the NBA.

by magenta on Apr 19, 2009 7:34 PM MDT reply actions

I think that's a half truth

I agree with that, but…just by watching some of the games, it was clear when we were losing some of them that we didn’t have the effort….now in that last game of the season, and 1 or two others….where we were hustling as a team all over the court….I think a team that hustles tends to get some calls a lazier team doesn’t…and at times…we’ve been that lazier team…on defense…we’ve been lazy for years….

But, back to you comment…look at how kobe mauled nash during the playoffs when he stole the ball from nash at half court, there’s no way that wasn’t a foul, that was a “nba wanting the lakers to win” sort of thing….I always laugh when I see that clip on tv of kobe hitting that free throw corner jump shot to beat us in the playoffs, I think the lakers were up 3-1 and we came back and beat them….that’s what should be on the nba commercial….something like…

“Kobe…hits a shot to win the game…..but LOSE THE SERIES :-)…….NBA ACTION…wear if your a star, you can do what you want

by be-the-ball on Apr 19, 2009 11:39 PM MDT up reply actions

Kobe got away with holding Eric Gordon down in their last regular game

And he even told Gordon that he will do that and the referrees won’t blow the whiste.

It is a super star league these days. They get the call…

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 2:04 AM MDT up reply actions

that really sucks

it’s like there’s 2 different set of rules….

by be-the-ball on Apr 20, 2009 9:21 AM MDT up reply actions

Yep - it's a super star league. Wade gets away with travel becos he is so quick and

Lebron used to get away with crab dribble. The things they couldn’t get away in college basketball, we let them get off scot free in professional basketbal…

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 8:15 PM MDT up reply actions

What post moves?

You mean back down, pivot and dunk? Shaq has made a career of abusing his physical advantage, and there really shouldn’t be too many other ways to play it. Imagine Dwight Howard shooting treys, what a waste that would be. It’d be nice if he hit higher than 35% on that super ugly jump hook, or maybe got himself to 65% from the line, but hey beggars can’t be choosers man.

If Shaq can achieve this, it really makes you wonder. What the F*** was he doing the rest of his career? Getting fat and lazy, and doing nothing to improve his weaknesses? He has admitted himself that he would easily have 5000+++ more points, and probably a 1000 more rebounds and 200 more blocks if he had just kept himself in decent shape. Look at how Shaq was toward the end of his Laker days and his Miami days. He was OBESE, the fats bulging out of him were seriously sick. It’s great that he has stayed in shape for Phoenix, and it makes me respect him for at least bothering to put in effort, even though it’s late. And thankful too. He refused to try for Miami, but he’s putting in the effort for us. We’re getting a much better deal than the Miami fans, haha.

Better late than never, c’mon let’s all get a 5th ring together with Shaq in Phoenix!

by felixthm on Apr 19, 2009 11:31 PM MDT reply actions

He kind of got in shape for his first year in MIA

by rsavaj on Apr 19, 2009 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions

Shaq did cruise for much of his career..

Especially in LA… But a lot of his improvement has to do with our medical staff, who are so much better wrt sports medicine and conditioning than any other organization.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 19, 2009 11:50 PM MDT up reply actions

felixthm + 1 Lakers fans keep saying that the last 2 years he was taking holidays mid-season

by timing his injuries. Same thing like in Miami.

Shaq had never worked hard on his free throws, jump shots and post moves “review how The Dream sank the Admiral” because he won the genetic lottery.

But to be fair, Lakers got the worse meds team, Miami too. I can’t believe that they can misdiagnose Mailman’s injury which ended his career.

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 2:06 AM MDT up reply actions

Hopefully our other vets will do more to improve their defensive play

rather than expect people bailing them out while indulging in their shoot first mentality “Nash and JRich I’m talking to u.” And Amare, it’s time for you to make all your critics eat their words the same thing you did when people doubted u can come back from microsurgery.

But Grant Hill takes the cake for being the best on both sides of the court over the entire season. Hats off to a real champion!

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 2:47 AM MDT reply actions

i agree

Hill is clearly my suns mvp this year, what a steal he’s been!! It’ll be interesting to see where/if Hill goes…a player like Hill could end up on a team with a real chance next year….I’d love for that to bbe the suns…but…I wouldn’t blame Hill if cleveland or some big team in the mix went after him for a 2 yr 20million contract or so

by be-the-ball on Apr 20, 2009 9:24 AM MDT up reply actions

But he needs to get that left foot looked at...

by magenta on Apr 20, 2009 8:16 PM MDT up reply actions

Shaqtus

The way Shaq responded after a year like this shows why he is a pro. It has to be pretty disappointing to miss the playoffs after 14 years of being one of the best players in the game. Every team he went to since Orlando has been really good. To be fair, he came to Phoenix expecting to have a reduced role. I think he put it on himself to play more and get better because the Suns didn’t make it. That’s incredible when you consider he doesn’t have anything to prove as far as his career goes. I’ll probably root for Shaq no matter what team he’s on, because it’s really hard to not like the guy, unlike Kobe.

by runningdonut on Apr 20, 2009 9:21 PM MDT reply actions

I agree runningdonut

I admire Shaq in wanting to play well next year by rying to lose weight. He looks great, as he is right now, but trimming down to his fighing weight of 290pounds would be fantastic.

I have followed his career since Orlando, and in his leaner years, he has always been in the top 10 NBA players in 4 categories (scoring,rebounds,blocks and FG%). If he trim down to anything less than 300pounds, there is no doubt in my mind that he will be a force in rebounds and blocks (and as always, FG%). Scoring, I am not sure. He was the franchise player for Orlando and Lakers, that is why he gets more touches. In Phoenix, I am sure Nash, Amare, and even J-Rich will have something to say about Shaq’s scoring touches. So, maybe Shaq cannot be the scoring machine he once was, but only because he is no longer the top player in Phoenix (not that he cannot score).

No matter where Shaq plays next season, i will support him. Shaq gets a lot of flak from ungrateful Laker fans (do you really think you would have won 3 championships with Kobe if Shaq was not there to pick up the scoring load consistently?), but he really is a phenomenal player.

Good luck in trimming down Shaq, I can use to lose a few pounds myself.

by shaq_diesel on Apr 21, 2009 8:47 AM MDT reply actions

+ 2: Posts by runningdonut and shaq_diesel

He should win 1 more ring with a championship bound team.

Suns are more or less in rebuilding and salary dumping phase…

by magenta on Apr 21, 2009 9:22 PM MDT up reply actions

I don't see it happening.

The older you get, the harder it is to drop weight, believe me I know. Even if he does manage to get to his target weight, age and previous injuries are going to minimalize the positives.

"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee."

Drew Gooden.

by Diosnomeama on Apr 23, 2009 8:44 AM MDT reply actions

Am I alone!?

Why is everyone (including Kerr) so quick to want to change this team. No one knows what they are capable of giving some consistancy. No champion is formed over night!
Kerr took a team on the cusp of a Championship and fundamentally changed it with the Shaq trade. Exit Dantoni. Then Porter took a team of players that are built for offense and told them to slow it down and worry most about defense. Then Kerr saw that was a mistake a tried to switch them back. Keep this team togther (at least the core) for one or two more seasons under Gentry and see what they are capable of. They showed stretches of exceptional play, and even very good defense. Lets see where that goes. If it doesnt work, everyones contracts are up anyway.

by thedoovage on Apr 23, 2009 3:08 PM MDT reply actions

I'm sure everyone "wants" to change this team

but that change is going to be forced on this team because of the luxury tax. If that happens, some important players will leave, and possibly go unreplaced, and that will leave the team in no-man’s land, i.e. not a contender but not in position to rebuild, either.

Furthermore, even if this team is a contender as constructed, the consensus is that it’s on the downward path of it’s trajectory, and that it’s opportunities to contend, with the current squad, are limited to this year or possibly next year, mostly because of age. Moreover, it’s not clear that even when fully healthy, this squad is capable of winning a title.

So, the thinking seem to be that if we have to get rid of players like Nash or Shaq, in order to satisfy our luxury tax constraints, then it makes more sense not to delay the inevitable, but to start the rebuilding project now, so that we’re back on our upward path and back in the playoffs and able to contend in 2 or 3 years.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Apr 23, 2009 4:04 PM MDT up reply actions