Daily Poll: Survivor desert, who do you want to trade?
by Seth Pollack on Apr 21, 2009 12:13 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage
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PrintThe Suns financial situation has been well discussed and while Steve Kerr didn't say that he's been told he has to cut payroll he also didn't rule out getting such a directive from his boss.
Given the Suns lottery bound season and the $10-$12m in projected luxury tax, most observers (and me) believe the Suns will explore any number of options to move some salary. There are five contracts on the roster that would be impactful enough to the luxuary tax situation if moved.
Assuming a "good" deal can be made for any of these players, which would you vote off the desert island?
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hmmmm....
aren’t Shaq and Richardson the two big moves kerr has done?
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Apr 21, 2009 1:19 PM MST reply actions
The problem with trading Richardson, Shaq, or Nash
is that the only teams that have the cap space to eat their salaries are rebuilding. So they don’t have any interest in past-their-prime veterans (Nash and Shaq) or somewhat above average swingmen with long-term, costly contracts (JRich). This means if the Suns really want to cut salary, Amare is the one who’ll need to go.
To me, the best trade that I can think up for Amare is very simple but I think large in its payoff if you think about it.
Amare and our 2009 pick
to
Oklahoma City for Nick Collison, their 2009 pick, and their (not our) 2010 pick.
It may not seem like much but for us that’s
-a hyper-efficient power forward who’s only 28 (Collison averages a double/double for his career per 36 min). Plus, he would fit nicely with our veteran squad for next season.
- 10M in lux. tax relief
- A guaranteed top 7 pick this year (and a real shot at the top 2 i.e. Rubio or Griffin)
-A still likely late lottery pick next year in what should be a fantastic draft class (even with Amare, I don’t know if the Thunder can make the playoffs in the West)
For the Thunder, it seems fairly enticing as well unless Presti has character issues with Amare. But Amare/Durant/Westbrook/Green is as impressive a core as there is in the league right now. All of this would of course be contingent on Amare’s willingness to resign with OKC, because if he makes it clear he would not, then no dice.
But that’s the trade that I both a) like most and b) think could possibly happen.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
that's a nice trade..
even better, if Nash & especially Shaq are going to be around beyond next year.
The guy’s an OK defender, plays intelligently, and seems comfortable in a sidekick role.
The thing about Amare, is that whoever he gets traded to is in the driving seat wrt compensation, and my guess is that with the injuries & everything, he’s lost a little bit of leverage. Plus, in the east, he can continue to be an all-star if he performs even at a moderate level.
It looks like Orlando is going to release Gortat, after his criticism of SVG in the Polish press. I know we drafted him, but he might be a nice pickup for us to bolster our front line.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Apr 21, 2009 3:04 PM MST up reply actions
Orlando
has no money to resign Gortat anyway but they really don’t need much in the way of big moves. They will have Jameer back and they have Dwight and Lewis up front and it sounds like they want to extend Hedo.
Actually, Gortat is a good fit in OKC or Detroit where they will have cap space and a lack of bigs…I am sure he’s going to get at least $4m which the Suns can’t afford until they clear some serious cap space
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Apr 21, 2009 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
You really think he's going to get $4M ??
He making $700K, now, for 12 mins/game.
My thought is that while he’s a talented center, he’d probably go for <$2M/year which, if the Amare trade is made, is something closer to what we’d be able to afford.
Also, it was clear when Amare went out that we didn’t have enough height on our squad, which in turn forced Matt Barnes to play PF. Ideally, and this is just my personal preference, I’d like us to have at least 4 guys on the squad 6-10 or taller.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Apr 21, 2009 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
I give you...
Darius Songalia – $4.5m
Matt Harpring – $6m
Kenny Thomas – $8.8m (ok, that one’s not fair)
Gortat is on basically a rookie contract playing behind the best center in the East. He’s going to get paid by someone. Perhaps over paid but I don’t think he’s take less then $4m and maybe a lot more…
Actually – this gives me an idea for a free agent guess the salary pool contest. That would be fun. Not sure how it would work though.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Apr 21, 2009 4:01 PM MST up reply actions
ok.. but..
to be fair, Harpring was actually pretty decent a couple of years ago: 12.5/5.2 in 27.5 mins/game in 05/06, and $6M/year was probably the going rate for that kind of production. Nash aside, most players decline as they get older.
Songaila is harder to justify, except he’s playing for the Wizards, and at one point was doing 9.2/4.0 in 21 mins.
But times have changed, with the economy and the renewed emphasis on the luxury tax. If I has to guess, I’d say the low end contracts will be the ones to get squeezed first, since by definition there are more players to fill those slots.
Still, you can’t teach height, and Steven Hunter is making $3.6M, so you’re probably right.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Apr 21, 2009 5:28 PM MST up reply actions
We should trade Nash and Shaq when they still have value, not Amare.
We have takers for Nash in Toronto and New York. Shaq will have his suitors in “must win now” teams like Cleveland and New Orleans “CP3 has an early opt out clause”
Both Nash and Shaq have zero upsides in their games and will be worth a lot less in a very short time. Amare and LB have a lot of upsides to their game and can still can become better.
I also find it funny that most of the people here, mostly Nash supporters, do not realise that the best way to trade Amare is to pretend you don’t want to. If fans and management make him look like a locker room cancer or persona non grata, you will only get garbage offers. Nash and Shaq should go becos we are keeping them more becos of feelings than real common sense. Our team needs to get young fast or we will win 1 game strong and lose the next game.
Like it but
like you said, Amare isn’t likely to want to resign in OKC so they would essentially be gambling two 1st round picks and Nick on renting Amare for one season…But if Presti would do it, that’s a deal
Even better might be JRich for Thabo and one of those 1st round picks…I just don’t see how they could possibly think that would work given the number of scorers they already have and how bad defensively they would be.
Would they use they cap space to take a flyer on Shaq though? Think about it. Big name for Bennett in OKC. Maybe we take back Kristic and this year’s 1st rd pick. It uses most of their cap space but only for this season. They could think that Shaq would be a good leader for their young players. Of all three, this one makes the most sense for the Thunder. Shaq might body slam Kerr into a cactus if he got traded to Oklahoma though.
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by Seth Pollack on Apr 21, 2009 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
Amare strikes me as the kind of guy..
who won’t leave money on the table, regardless of where he’s playing.
Plus, if the Thunder are indeed up & coming, and ready or close to ready to hit the playoffs, that might be an enticing situation for him. The downside for Amare, of course, is that Durant is now the man in Oklahoma.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Apr 21, 2009 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
I voted Shaq
cuz I hate his ass and I’m not a Suns fans so it doesn’t matter what I think.
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JRich
He is a dribbler, slasher who is constantly looking to get his own shot despite the fact that he could be spoon fed by Nash. Defensively they are bad with him and Steve in the backcourt. He should be traded in a salary dump for anything you could get back. I know Amare has issues, but how could you get fair value in return for him? They would need to pull off an Iverson-like trade for that to work.
you didn’t watch him much for the Suns then, he never forced shots or looked to get his shot off. He knew he wasn’t the first option here and played accordingly. I agree nash and rich aren’t the best backcourt, however, I would move nash if the choice were given to me. makes zero sense to rebuild around a 36 year old.
Your right
that he didn’t force his shot much here and wasn’t “greedy” but he proved that without being the focal point in the offense he’s not worth $14m….the deal never made sense from that regard
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by Seth Pollack on Apr 21, 2009 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
I'm gonna have to disagree..
JRich didn’t force his shot as much as he would have if he were still on a team like the Bobcats, but from what I saw.. he still did force up shots.
It would make sense to try and trade Jrich for AK47 or Rip hamilton, outside of that there isn’t much out there. Salary dump? In reality, who is going to take his contract without us taking one on. Noone. That is why it makes sense to either keep him or trade him for one of the above.
AK wouldnt be bad...
on the one hand he’s a good rebounder, and it would rock to have a big man who could occassionally hit a 3..
on the other hand, he’s not pretty enough to be a sun…
Call me old school...
i hate russians
by Funky Flapsack on Apr 21, 2009 7:31 PM MST up reply actions
He plays better defense than anyone in a Suns uniform currently, rebounds, and can also add a little scoring. Would be a no brainer if the option to trade JRich for him arose.
We talked about this thread earlier already but Jazz will probably lock AK and Millsap up
Unless u want Boozer, who is definitely on his way out…
No flippin clue
Like I’ve said though, after the May 19 lottery and we have the draft order we can really get into who’s got what picks and what they might possibly be able to do
For whatever reason, the team that “worries” me is the Knicks. Right now, they would be hard pressed to do a deal, but they are rolling in $ (or at least they were) so would they they buy out Hughes and Curry to free up the cap space to make a deal with us for Nash? Let’s say they do that and the deal is their 1st round pick (maybe a 7 – 10 pick) and David Lee for Nash. Lee would need to be a sign and trade (I think). Do you do that?
I just don’t know who would possibly want Shaq’s contract so I think he stays and JRich is going to be hard to move without taking back a contract. There aren’t many teams that are needing scoring punch from the 2 guard that can do a deal that makes sense. You don’t want to take back bad contracts just to move him. That’s why the Suns really rolled the dice at the trade deadline by not making any deals. If they wanted to get under the lux tax for next season that would have been the time to act. Now, I think its going to be hard to even dump salary let alone get value back.
On top of all that, remember there are a TON of free agents that are going to be on the market for teams like Detroit and OKC that will be rebuilding and have the cap space to sign someone. Even Portland will have cap space to sign a nice piece. Look at some of the names that will be available
Rasheed Wallace, AI, Boozer (probably), Jamal Crawford, Bibby and Zaza, Ben Gordon, Varajao, Brandon Bass, Marion, Anthony Carter, Artest, Von Wafer, Ariza and Odom, Lee, Nate and Gortat are restricted…there more
If you are a team with cap space why trade for JRich or Amare when you can just sign one of those guys unless you looking one or two years out when Amare and JRich expire and you want to be positioned to be a buyer then…I don’t know. Too many options. It makes the head spin
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by Seth Pollack on Apr 21, 2009 10:09 PM MST up reply actions
+ 1: Good analysis: Would love an extra pick and David Lee for Nash
Give Nate Robinson a pass. He’s too small for the PG or SQ position and he does not play D.
My concern with Shaq
is that we might move him for some strange combination of smaller expiring contracts and players that have little to nothing to do with the core of this team for the future. (Example: Stackhouse and Dampier? Are you kidding me?) If nothing else, one more year of a decent Shaq — provided that he’s content not to be the first or second option on offense — and then that much cap space coming off the books is a pretty valuable commodity, and I’d hate to see that disappear without a solid return.
So given the other choices, and with Kerr already all-but-committing to Nash, my vote’s for JRich. I’m not sure what to expect in return for him, considering the two brushes with the law this year, and his bulky contract, but some kind of deal where we could save 6, 7 million and maybe get a pick and a serviceable player in return would be ideal.
Nash, Shaq and J Rich needs to go - Suns are over due for a youth movement
in a league that has gotten younger, better defensively and more mobile. Anyone we keep has to have more upside in their game.
None of these 3 players would be able to keep up with the best 10 players in their positions for every game in the season.
For them to be effective, we can’t shave their minutes if they are still our key go to guys. They have to play more, play harder and play better than before.
I voted Shaq but if I can vote 3 times. I will also vote out Nash and JRich.
The market for Nash and, to a limited degree Shaq, is more lucrative for the Suns than trading Amare unless we get a young forward in return. I have lost patience with 35 plus players who still haven’t bothered to play defense.
I voted for Jrich but...
if multiple votes allowed woudl have put in Amare to. I know a lot here like Amare and i acknowledge he’s an awesome offensive force. But if he stays he’s gonna ask for the maximum extension which i dont believe he deserves coz he’ll never have the same overall impact (on team success as compared to having just good stats) with the likes of Dwight Howard or Wade or Brandon Roy. On the other hand if he’s willing to be flexible on his salary and his role as the “MAN” on the team he would be a good player to retain in a squad made up of several above-average players (Pistons in their championship year) willing to play as a team.
Amare played well when he was the Man in the second half of 2007-2008 season
He did not play well when the offense revolved around Shaq this season.
If he wants to be a franchise player, the team system must work that well for us to criticise him if he does not play well. But if the system revolves around Nash and Shaq as the franchise players, we have to be hard on them for not playing well or not playing deal, than blame Amare and other players. Everytime I see that. I explode. Being a nice guy in the locker room does not justify a lack of effort or effectiveness on the defense line. This is professional sport, not Mr NBA or congeniality.
lets remember to think about
the locker room. if amare manages to bug the hell out of us wiht his immaturity and stupidity via the media, imagine how annoying it must be to have to work with the dude everyday? plus. shaq is hilarious. think about how much more boring our season would have been without all of the excitement his personality brings. plus the new guys have grown attached to the big fella.
my bottom line: trade amare. we can get decent value.
jrich is meh, we can trade him too.
It seems to me the suns started to rebuild when Shaq arrived. A year and a half into the rebuild the suns were 10? games over 500 and were 2 games out of a playoff spot in the strong west. Not too bad.
When the season ended they had 3 mature players ( the most effective on the team and with more than one more year left in them) and 5 young/rookies of whom 3 may become starters very soon. Two important elements of a good team. What they don’t have are mid-age players who have experience and the elements to their game that the mature players lack….defence.
Move Amare and JRich to solve this problem.
Amare plays above average defence in a good non-Porter system in 2007-2008
If you want to move vet players who dun play D, Nash, Shaq and JRich are the ones who need to go. I dun see them improving their D even if they claim they want to.
This blind allegiance to Amare is starting to wear on me.
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by Diosnomeama on Apr 22, 2009 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
Hardly. I am against any player who does not play D.
And I still remember Amare’s D in 2007-2008 when 2 out of 3 plays went through him, rather than Shaq. There was improvement. And other fans still consider Amare a PF that is an upgrade for most teams.
The blind allegience to ageing players who don’t try to improve their D at all is what’s troubling.
This is a youthful league right now. And we need a rising sun youth movement, not a sunset ride to nowhere.
That's why I'm against trading Amare and LB. Our team is too old to stay healthy until...
the play-offs. Case in point: After Nash shot 6 3-pointers in a win over Denver in the last few games of the reguilar season in 2007-2008, he played badly in the following games, including the play off series with the Spurs. We cannot gamble on the vet’s staying healthy and their skills improving or even remaining consistent.
For those who said SSOL will never win a ring, you might as well finish the job by trading away the engine for SSOL. The league had 4 years to study SSOL and got younger along the way that up tempo is something most teams can play. They can score about the same as the Suns if they also ignore D. SSOS isn’t really that unique, especially when teams like ageing Dallas can drop 130 on us.
The problem here
is what I stated in my first comment far, far above. As Stan points out, any trade we make will likely have cost-cutting as a prominent concern. The only substantial way to cut costs with a trade is to trade with teams below the cap. But almost all the teams sufficiently below the cap (like OKC, Detroit, Minnesota, Memphis) are rebuilding, and rebuilding teams are not going to eat the 12M or 21M dollar contracts of aging veterans even if those contracts are expiring because if they are already under the cap they don’t need cap space. Nor are they likely going to take on the long-term and costly contract of JRich. I mean, if we were willing to just give up Nash for a conditional first rounder and like Earl Watson, we could probably get a deal done, but a one year Nash or Shaq rental is not worth a high first rounder to a rebuilding team much less a high pick plus a stud like David Lee or prospect like Randolph.
So if the Suns need to cut costs, they’ll need assets that are actually appealing to rebuilding teams. LB and especially Amare are those assets.
No one is saying that keeping Nash or Shaq is necessarily better for rebuilding than keeping Amare (though 32M in cap relief after next year is pretty awesome), but in the context of rebuilding the Suns and cutting costs, he is the most sensible player to trade.
Because in return for him we could both cut costs and get enough worthy assets so as not to stymie our rebuilding process. Plus, our cap space would be just that much more if we could get rid of Amare. So huge 09-10 cap space plus flexible, valuable assets (prospects or relatively high lottery picks) – that’s a trade I can believe in.
So it’s not about keeping Nash or Shaq over Amare because we think they’re better for the Suns future. It’s because trading Amare and letting Shaq and Nash expire after next season would likely maximize the Suns assets and flexibility while cutting costs.
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Atlanta
perhaps would be the one team, we could get to eat some of Nash or Shaq’s salary, since they are competitive now and do have cap space. But that may change quickly depending on what they do with Bibby and Williams.
Plus, they don’t have much in the way assets that a) are useful to a retooling Suns team and b) they would part with (JSmith and especially Horford aren’t likely going anywhere).
Toronto too is I guess “hovering” around contention but why a team with Calderon would want Nash is beyond me. He’s better, younger, and cheaper. But bad trades are hard to predict, you know.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
Well said
as always…
You don’t see Shaq going to Toronto to play next to Ru Paul :)
I do think that Richardson is still movable. His contract isn’t horrible in that he’s still productive and he’s owed “only” $27m over the next two years.
The team I keep coming to for Richardson is Minnesota. He really would be a good fit there w/ Love and Jefferson. He should be a good fit with PG’s Foye and Talfair who are younger and smaller and less reliable perimeter scorers.
Ryan Gomes is due $4m next year and then he’s not guaranteed the full amount for future years. Gomes is a decent enough SF. Not sure if he can fill the role of defensive SG. Another option is Brian Cardinal. Not a great player but he’s only due $6m next year and then is done.
The TWolves have 3 1st round picks next year. Their pick which will be around 5th and then the 18th and 27th they own via trade.
So, I would target Minnesota for JRich even if it means taking back Cardinal or Gomes and a late 1st round pick …..which we can then sell to Portland for $3m :)
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Apr 22, 2009 12:47 PM MST up reply actions
Minny and JRich
The only trouble I have had with that trade, Stan, is what to do with Mike Miller. I mean, if you want a pure scorer then JRich is the superior player. But Miller better, and honestly fairly remarkable, overall game. I mean, the guy’s got much more BBIQ than JRich; he can play point forward as well as anyone not named Lebron; he’s a great perimeter rebounder, awesome passer, and better defender than JRich (which isn’t saying much). When you add to that, the fact that he’s 3.5M dollars cheaper and has an expiring contract, I’m not sure Minny makes this deal.
I mean, I could see a GM looking at the two players in a vacuum deciding that JRich was better suited for their needs, but, to me, Miller’s contract makes a close contest pretty lopsided.
Maybe I’m just abnormally high on Miller. But I really think that most people just look at his decreased scoring this year (which was only due to his decreased shots) and think he’s in decline or overpaid. If you look at his total game though, there aren’t too many more desirable SG/SF types for that price.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
Hmmm
I have never been high on Mike Miller and see him as a vastly inferior player to JRich. Defensively, I think they are a wash. Miller might be a better passer, but Jason’s is far far ahead on his ability to create his shot off the dribble, in the post or in transition.
The fact that Minnesota desperately needed another outside scorer this season and Miller wasn’t that guy says it all. JRich could be a 20 ppg guy on that team. My concern is actually that they would want to send Miller back. The upside of having Miller is he could add another long hair to our team.
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by Seth Pollack on Apr 22, 2009 1:25 PM MST up reply actions
Scoring
I’d agree that JRich is probably the better pure scoring option, though I really would just mark that up to mentality more than anything else. Miller scored plenty in Memphis when asked to do so. But, to me, as a complete player, and especially as a ball-handler, Miller is clearly the guy.
I don’t know. I guess we just have pretty remarkably different takes on Miller. I’d be pretty exhilirated if the Suns got him for JRich.
For what it’s worth here’s a blip from DraftExpress’s recent scouting report of Miller:
Overview: Miller has quietly developed into one of the most versatile and efficient offensive threats in the game. Miller is a multi-faceted offense threat, good with the shot, the drive, and the pass. He often plays more than one position during the course of a game, including a point-forward type role in some stretches. Miller is best suited to be a team’s 3rd option, where his overall floor game can benefit the team greatest. He is capable of explosive scoring games, but not consistently enough to be a first or second option.
The rest is here
For comparison, JRich is here
That’s just one site’s take, but for public sites, I don’t know who does it better than DE.
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Sure...good stuff
I just have never been impressed with him. Could be I’ve not see him enough. He certainly doesn’t have the mentality of a guy that’s going to take a came over or lead a team.
Not that the Suns need that. They need Thabo Sefalosha to play next to Nash. A defensive oriented two that isn’t a black hole on offense
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by Seth Pollack on Apr 22, 2009 1:54 PM MST up reply actions
To clear cap space, Nash and Shaq are much better options
I don’t see the logic in proposing moving LB and Amare as better options
Who has the biggest contract: Shaq
Who has the biggest draw appeal in terms of tickets: Nash and Shaq
Which position are more in demand in NBA: PG and Centre
We have takers for Shaq “Cleveland came close with a good deal” and Toronto and Knicks would take Nash as he is a homeboy favourite for the first and an ideal fit for the second.
This is a young PG league these days. The sooner we realise this, the sooner the Suns can rebuild.
> > Keeping these vets will only slow down our rebuilding process. < <
Magenta
Trading with Cleveland or New York can’t help us cut cap space. Both of those teams are over the cap, so they would have to send back roughly equivalent contracts back.
The only way to cut salary is to trade with a team under the cap. Most teams under the cap will have no interest in renting an uber-expensive, past-his-prime veteran in exchange for any worthwhile assets. Of course, they may do it for scrap (i.e. the Kurt Thomas trade), but no rebuilding team is giving up valuable assets for a one year veteran rental, regardless of increased ticket sales. If ticket sales meant that much, why would we trade Shaq or Nash?
So if you want to cut salary by trading Shaq or Nash, you’d actually have to find the rebuilding team below that cap that is an exception to this.
That’s the problem. And you can’t solve it by pointing to Cleveland or New York.
Toronto is a possibility, but I find it somewhat unlikely that a team with a top flight PG would waste all their cap space to acquire an, at best, equivalent one. And I find it even more unlikely that they would give up anything valuable in return (not that Toronto has much of value).
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Toronto may trade cos their guards have a lot of issues
Toronto needs shooters to spread the floor but they don’t them right now. Kapono may lead in the 3-point shooting % but he does not take a lot of shots. Jose Calderon doesn’t take as many shots as he should.
Nash is a good fit as he’s a home boy favourite and Coelango’s close friend. Getting a premium PG may also help Chris Bosh commit to staying. Toronto trading for Nash has been well-covered in that city for about the last 6 months…
The Toronto Raptors are built to win now, so trading Shaq may be possible as well. Anyway, it’s just a scenario…
No way Shaq goes to Cleveland
First you already have King James. No way Shaq can sit back and be second to somebody on any team. Second the Cavs already have fans in the seats and a system that does not need a huge used diesel motor installed, if anything they just need a small tuneup.
Nash is really the only player with true market value that should be moved but he will stay. Imagine how fast fans will call for blood if Nash is shipped out.
My prediction for next year…… the same roller coaster ride as this year.
by Gorilla Game on Apr 23, 2009 9:11 AM MST up reply actions
yep
Lebron has finally become the man. He is the one all the players look up to. Shaq would ruin that. Could you imagine if he started complaining about his touches in Cleveland? He would destroy that team
by Funky Flapsack on Apr 23, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
I agree
although I think Shaq could potential fit in there but I would worry about it if I were them.
The thing to consider with Cleveland though is that both Big Z and Varajao can opt out this summer. IF they did that then they would have $17m less in salary and a need for a big man. I don’t see that happening though.
I would guess that both Z and Varejao will return so Cleveland will stand pat.
The only move they could make this us, which I hate, is Wallace at $14m plus Sasha Pavlovic at $4.7. Sasha is only guaranteed $1m for next year so in theory the Suns could drop about $6m in payroll and then you are left w/ Wallace instead of Shaq. The only good news is that Wallace expires at the end of next season so you aren’t worse off in the long run.
Would the Suns replace Shaq with Ben Wallace and $6m in salary savings? I suppose it’s possible and if you don’t like Shaq then maybe you like that deal. I don’t.
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by Seth Pollack on Apr 23, 2009 11:38 AM MST up reply actions
Shaq will complement Lebron like he did for Amare in 2007-2008
However, I’m with Stan. I don’t like that Cleveland offer,, which Kerr rejected last year.
pure dream land…..3 days ago Colangelo said Calderon is going nowhere but they need a backup PG…..does this sound like Nash
built to win now ……unbelievable no one in TO thinks so
Are you a Raptor fan? Yoou don't sound like one.
We were talking about dumping slaries, trading for rookies and picks. No one is saying they want to trade Calderon. He does not play enough D and that is what we need to look for in our guards. We already have a fire exit at the PG position when the NBA league now has an incredibly strong line-up of youthful talented PGs who play both sides of the court.
Toronto needs shooters to spread the floor and to enhance their backcourt because they finally have a nice front court but Kapono and Calderon don’t take a lot of shots and Anthony Parker is an ageing SG that is playing like one.
Calderon has a lot of injuries this season and he no longer has a PG to share the load after they traded Tj Ford to Indiana. That’s another big concern.
Any Raptor fan won’t disagree with this assessment.
Second, trading for Nash will help bring back the fans after the horrendous season and Nash is incredibly popular in Canada.
Toronto needs to win soon if not now. Because Bosh and Marion won’t stay otherwise on a rebuilding team that will be lucky to even get into the play-offs.
at this point
I’m alot more interested in how
far these replies can get
squished to the right
Calderon
shoots 50% from the field, 40% from 3, 98%(!!!) from the line and has a much better ast/to ratio than Nash.
He only missed 14 games this year.
He’s an average defender who’s more athletic than Nash.
He’s 7 years younger than Nash.
He’s 4M dollars cheaper.
One could maybe still argue that Nash is better than Calderon at this point in Nash’s career, but all things considered (age, salary, defense) any team that would want Nash over Calderon is a team that deserves to lose.
Furthermore, any team that would waste 12M on a backup PG also deserves to lose.
Last, those great young PGs, you’re talking about: Calderon is one of them.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
I'm only telling u what raptor fans and media have thrown around in the last 6 months
It’s not my idea or opinion…
I check a Canadian sports site . The raptors are covered there…..the blogs that you are obviosly reading are very similar to all sports blogs……hopes dreams and desires of fans but no real connection to what is happening with the team.
The only player on the Raptors is Bosch and he is a jr. Amare .
Their big move in the off season seems to be a sign and trade with Marion. Nash does not go there for a first which is all thay have.
Their front court on is jr Amare, Marion and Bargs a guy that last season was inconsistant at best. The rest would be 9th or 10th on the suns.
Exactly
So if you trade Amare for Anthony Randolph (which i’m obviously a huge fan of), and you keep Nash and Shaq, then for at least next year we save a little of the luxury tax, while at the same time improving on the team that ended the season. Because at the PF you’re upgrading in size, from Barnes to Randolph, and also upgrading skill. So next year we’re staying competitive as a possible playoff contender. We’d also be giving Randolph needed experience with veterans. Then after Nash and Shaq come off the books, we can build around the Randolph/ Barbosa core. Of course the Suns would still likely look to move Shaq, saving them more money.
by Funky Flapsack on Apr 22, 2009 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
Randolph played well in only the last 1-2 months
We need observe him for 1 more season or he’s still fool’s gold.
If we want to trade Amare, we must get back an athletic big who can score, rebound and block and can create his own shots.
I dun see a lot of options except Aldrige, Iguodala and Thaddues
Iguodalas isn't big. He's small.
And I don’t like Thaddeus Young. He’s a perimeter big with an iffy shot. He’s also very lightweight and not a good rebounder at all. Because he’s so light and undersized. He also averages 0.3 blocks in 31 minutes per game. So if you want an athletic big who can score, rebound, and block, you’ve got it totally wrong, man.
+1
Randolph broke out in the last 2 months because Don Nelson actually gave him some playing time, as he attempted to tank the season. Randolph averaged 15.2 pts and 9.4 Reb in his last 5 games, against Min, Houston, Utah, SA, and the Suns. All but one of those were winning teams, and 2 of them are known for their good D. Keep in mind he’s a rookie. But already he displays signs of good shooting, he’s a very good ball handler, and he has height. This kid can grow into something special.
by Funky Flapsack on Apr 22, 2009 10:49 PM MST up reply actions
The problem with having all that cap room..
is who do you spend it on.. especially in a situation where a bunch of other teams also have muy cap space too. It’s all too easy, in the NBA, to overpay for underwhelming talent.
I’ve advocated rebuilding this team by letting Nash go this year, and letting Shaq play out his contract next year. Mostly because they’ve got at most 3 good to decent years left in them, and even with them we don’t rise to the point of being a true contender.
But I still don’t have a good answer as to how we spend the cap money, which players we target, and most importantly, how we build a cohesive team around the free agents and the players we have.
If we keep Amare, then it’s clear we have to build the team around him.
If not, then there’s the possibility that Sarver pulls a Don Sterling, replacing good players with low-cost knockoffs, where the Suns become another Clippers or Timberwolves.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Apr 22, 2009 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with the cap statement….some Raptors blogs suggest that Stro Swift will be a free agent target and as some of you guys would say WTF.
Sure Nash , Shaq and Hill have 3 years left and sure the suns are not championship caliber with them but the pieces you will get for them will not win it either. It is interesting to read here the great gnashing of teeth over the sold draft picks and how well these players are doing now and how the suns problems would be alot less if the previous gm had valued young players ( I wonder how many damning posts Rondo would have received initally if he was here)…well keep drafting the best player available and let them develop.
A plan, some stability, some patience and voila a good team for along time.
We probably will screw Rondo for his poor jump shooting and for falling on the ground the way he does
Rondo may end up being another 2007-2008 Wade if he is not careful.
We could simply not spend it
Get ourselves up to league minimum in salary, then Sarver won’t have to pay top-dollar for a lottery team anymore, poor guy. He’d simply be paying budget dollars for the lottery team.
But seriously, who is available, who wants to come here, what pieces do we need, what type of team do we want to be, what pieces are we going to keep/already have? All these questions have to be settled first. SSOL is obviously a thing of the past. And SSOS obviously subsides after Shaq retires. Who do we build around? What do we build into?
The Trade
Trade Kerr for anyone with a brain and trade Sarver for any Colangelo!
How about we trade Kerr for 3 mill cash!
by Gorilla Game on Apr 23, 2009 9:11 AM MST up reply actions
No one's paying to take him off our hands. Oh yeah, his ex-employer TNT might...
… as long as Kerr agrees that he won’t remake TNT as a Spurs organisation.
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