We need Kerr & Sarver to sell the Suns franchise to someone capable
by magenta on Apr 5, 2009 5:59 PM MDT
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PrintTrades won't help us but change of management will.
No one seems to realise that any future trades may end up making out team even more fragile and unstable.
Trade Shaq to Cleveland for hsi last chance at a ring and get back a late first round pick and Hibbert only means SSOS needs to be reworked as we lack a dominant big man. Besides Amare, do we have another forward who can help bolster our post play? Nope.
I have low hopes for "Foul-like-there's-no-tomorrow" Lopez for the Suns will truly have no hope tomorrow for the way he plays. Hard fouls, as advocated by Shaq only means Lopez's stay on court will be shorter than ever.
Trade Nash and we lack a seasoned guard whom the veterans will listen to, though our defense won't be as porous.
Trade Amare and we have nothing rebuild around.
Trade Bell and Diaw "wait we already done that" so that NAIVE SUNS FANS can continue drinking the kool-aid that Porter's system was sabotaged by locker room dissenters and that a "shot in the arm" trade is needed "wait we already tried that".
Trades may need to be done but they are not answers to the crap situation our beloved Suns are in.
I would rather we blow up this team. Fans stop buying tickets. Drive the value of the franchise down and start an online petition for the Coelango to pick up this franchise cheap and build it up again.
Sarver's empire is built on property and finance, which is hard hit by the times. He won't have the resources to buid up this team anyway.
Kerr's a good man but he's only a public relations man who has avoided taking responsibility for making decisions that caused the West's best team 1.5 seasons ago to become it's ninth best.
Both of them need to go or the sordid tale of selling picks, dumping/trashing good players, signing wrong talent, not signing right talent will make the Suns the laughing stock of NBA.
I'm in Tokyo right now and Japanese fans are abandoning the Suns like droves. They don't like the behaviour of the fans during the "trade Amare mania" and they certainly like the management even less.
It's not just the management and players needs to change. We fans need to change as well to create an environment that star players will want to come and play in.
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Just want to make it clear that trades can open other cans of worms
Anyone else who thinks different MAY still be drinking from Kerr’s Koo-Aid, the best current “thin man” when it comes to selling deperation trades, desperation salary dumps and desperation selling of picks…
i suggest that everyone chill out.
things are getting heated, and people are just making more and more points to try and contradict others.
this should be an environment where people can talk about their ideas without the fear of being viciously mauled afterwards.
just my two cents.
Thanks
Good point…let’s not get too heated in our discussions…or at least try and not make it personal towards those that aren’t in a public position (ie each other)
For whatever it’s worth, I am weeks past feeling angry. I thought it was over the first time we couldn’t beat Dallas in a must win game so day really didn’t feel all that bad. More curious then anything as to how the Suns got beat so bad but I am feeling very clinical about it all
Blogging Suns Basketball
yeah.
i never really felt too angry about things. i felt a little frustrated, but not really true anger.
i too am curious as to how they got beaten so badly as well, but…i think i’m echoing your words (or maybe zona?), may as well enjoy watching some of the best athletes in the world compete at the highest level. i love basketball, regardless of all the politics.
by Trevor Paxton on Apr 5, 2009 6:23 PM MDT up reply actions
I hear ya...
I agree with you. Look at what the Suns did against a going no where Dallas Mavs today, they got their butts creamed. This was the team they had to beat to have a slight chance to make the playoffs. Kerr must go and I can only wish that Sarver would sell the team to the Jerry Colangelo and let Bryan run them again. I have been a fan since KJ was here. I just pray some way some how we can become a contender….
Being heated means we still care about this team
But iamtrevorpaxton, I appreciate your comments. I know where you are coming from and I thank you for that.
Azreous, no he hasn’t. That makes him both a moron and a confidence trickster in my book.
Look, I have never expected a warm reception for the way I came out against excessive fan behaviour and trade baiting of players, which needed to be said. Such behaviour also screwed up Detroit in forcing an unnecessary trade. But I have never used foul language against anyone who disagree with me and I still hold myself to that.
But guys, let’s be serious. None of us have any faith in the management anymore. Kerr is a confidence man and Sarver an insecure wannabe and mix them together we have an explosive cocktail of toxic decisions smoothly and glibly passed off by Kerr the confidence man.
Incompetence comes in many stripes and some have their own silver lining.
Take the Minnesota Timberwolves, my second favourite team in the league. For years, McHale has been labelled “McFale” by fans for his draft picks and trades. However, the players he drafted and traded for believed in him and respected him for never throwing them under the fan bus.
When he started as their coach, they played their hearts out for him and the picks he made actually make a lot of sense. I love Kevin Love’s post play more than O J Majo’s scoring. Randy Foyle is becoming more reliable as a go-to SG. And I will prefer Al Jefferson against Kevin Garnett any day and any how.
However, all their latent potential would have gone to waste if they lack faith in the man, which is Mchale.
We fans and I bet the players as well do not respect nor trust the management of the Suns.
That’s the place we should start trading for more talent i.e. management.
Or we should just give them away.
I'm past
feeling angry as well, just resigned.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee."
Drew Gooden.
Yep, I feel the same
It’s not just the game.
It’s everyone else writing the Suns off with headlines like this:
Mavs win, all but assured of playoffs:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;ylt=Ar49YnyinvjoW5QRxx63tW8vLYF?gid=2009040506&prov=ap
What a nice start to this week…
Look Magenta,
no offense, but I couldn’t care less what fans in Japan think about the Suns and whether they jump off the bandwagon or not. What teams need fans like that anyway? I have a friend who is a fan like that – he follows the Suns, but more than that, he is mainly a fan of the NBA. He got a Baron Davis Clippers jersey earlier in the year, thinking it would be the “in” thing to get at the time. He wouldn’t wear that now if you paid him to. Bottom line, you get fans by winning and continuing to win. Not by staying “classy” and not requesting the trades of players who just don’t bring it at times, e.g. Amare. If there’s any beef I have with the fans of the Suns, it’s that they’re not passionate enough. Honestly, do our fans ever get loud enough to give the Suns a discernible home court advantage, in comparison to fans of teams like the Celtics, Mavs, Lakers, Warriors, and even the Spurs?
And has anyone ever wondered what trading Nash would do to guys like Grant Hill, LB, and others? These people are humans, too – they have relationships. I’m not sure LB would stick around for too long or be happy with anything if we traded a close friend of his like Nash. That’s not the reason I want to keep him, but one of the many why I think we should…
Fair comment and a timely one indeed
Your comment fits in nicely with my point that trades can open other cans of worms.
Nash was down and his playing dipped when they traded his close friend Bell. Probably Hill and LB will feel the same way if Nash heads out of Phoenix.
Trades are a necessary evil but we shouldn’t bank on them so hard as the way to turn things around or jumpstart things.
The management is what needs to be exorcised right now.
Let’s see if there’s going to be a “GM Wagoner” moment in Phoenix…
Must game
and the Suns give up 81 at the half. Something is not right with this team. I really thought when Gentry got the reigns things would be different, but when you just don’t guard anyone in the gym this is what happens.
When this team decides to play on the “D” side of the court give me a call, until then this is what you’ll get from this squad.
Hell start Dudley, sit JRich, have him come off the bench.
The whole season is really a shame, lack of desire by some and lack of brains in the front office.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
yep
problem is…the front office remains, and the structure of this team…financially and age wise…it’s not a bright future without some changes..
Grock, Kidd is also a better player than most people credit him for.
He made us pay for every weakness the Suns are known for.
Exhibit A: He unleashes a lot of post moves against LB and Nash…
WELL....
I just didn’t feel very upset after this game, It’s not a matter of giving up, if I gave up, I wouldn’t be watching…it’s a matter of judging what you see without the “fan” bias…and the Suns are hurting…it’s frustrating because they have a few great parts
Hill (even with the results, it’s been a pleasure to watch him play!..favorite line in an interview by hill when asked isn’t it great playing with Nash…Hill was with his wife at his home and he said…"Yep, it is, it just goes to show you something good can come out of canada! lol)
Shaq (I hated him when he was a laker, didn’t follow him much in Miami, but he has greatly improved his physical mobility, has a fun attitude, and is likely one of the best athletes for fans ever…yes…he says some dumb things…but many of them are about kobe…seriously, i don’t like kobe, he’s no jordan)
Nash (it was fun when the team was a true run an gun…but that left with the coach and marion)….and barnes and jrich are the opposite of unselfish, which is one of the key parts of the old 7sol team that is sadly long gone
Amare (for a big man, can you honestly say he’s someone we should build our team around…I haven’t thought so for a long time…yrs ago I thought so, but there’s too many things about amare that stink, and those that don’t see it, would defend him if he committed murder)
L.B (nice, fun player, just fell apart against the spurs when we needed him most…to bad)
Another bright spot has been Lou, fun story there, hope he continues with us as a 6th / 7th / 8th player in the rotation
As far as this team goes, regardless of money, it needs a rebuild, and with Amare and L.B. being the only young top players, and with amare being hurt a lot, or maybe not so much a poor defender…like shaq on the pick and roll or nash, the thing about amare is he has as much athleticism as any player I’ve ever seen, minus a few beautiful freaks like lebron or something…to be not a good to great defender this late in his career is a problem…
Sarver’s biggest mistake, not getting rid of amare and losing joe johnson…ok..in hindsight…which isn’t fair, but it’s a bloggers best weapon, I think we could’ve been a great team for years based on this one thing…losing amare…keeping joe johnson…we then would’ve had joe – marion – and bell – 3 great defenders
This team won fans because of it’s unselfishness and fun style of play, that’s not there anymore…and the fans will slip away…not all…but many…and I can’t say I blame them…
if you say they’re band wagoners, that they were never true fans…I’d disagree, following a sports team isn’t like family, it’s supposed to be fun to watch, it’s entertainment, not torture…and this team is currently torture…
But, I can’t/won’t switch to another team, there’ll be “BRIGHT” days again, until they come, I’ll just try and enjoy the good and not get too upset about the bad….(please god…trade jrich and barnes)…that rules about the money having to match up on trades…I don’t like that rule!
Shaq has been a good addition, it’s simply after him and Hill, we’re not a top team….did I mention the good, Hill should be the mvp of this team, if not shaq this year…
Kerr and Sarver…I like listening to them, they seem ok, but to commit to becoming a defensive team for 6 months and then throwing porter under the bus, when it’s clear our team makeup is a big part of the problem and to go back to the 7sol and fail so miserably on defense…the very thing they wanted to improve is pretty f’’up
I’d prefer not having 3-4 players make so much a yr, I think very few 13+ million a yr players are worth it, maybe 1 in 5 or less….
better luck next year suns…wonder if they’ll sell there picks again? Of course they finally skipped selling there pick last yr..
by be-the-ball on Apr 5, 2009 8:54 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
well said, especially...
“we then would’ve had joe – marion – and bell – 3 great defenders”
“please god…trade jrich and barnes)…”
This much I’ll say about Barnes. For someone who repeatedly tries to shoot 3s out of a slump, he has to know that he is ignoring people who are hot or may be in better position.
If he wants to pad his stats, he should do it somewhere else…
This is the key.
Sarver’s biggest mistake, not getting rid of amare and losing joe johnson…ok..in hindsight…which isn’t fair, but it’s a bloggers best weapon, I think we could’ve been a great team for years based on this one thing…losing amare…keeping joe johnson…we then would’ve had joe – marion – and bell – 3 great defenders
Pontiff of the Pryz for Prez Posse...
Um
Anyone ever heard a a coup being carried out against a professional sports franchise? I mean I understand the rebellion, but no matter how much we bitch about management, they’re not going anywhere. Sarver is not selling the team, and at this point it looks like he’s not getting rid of Kerr. It’s a pointless argument
Both needs to go
They have no real tie to the decisions that made the Suns a great team.
Regardless of how flawed Bryan Coelango may be, he’s still one of the best managers in Suns history…
without question...
Colangelo made some great moves that lead directly to the 2005 7sol team that made me really love this team…but like a favorite car, this team needs a rebuild, not just a tuneup, we’re talking a ton of work…but here’s the million dollar question, is the group behind the suns (the owners…and it’s not just sarver…he’s an owner…but there is a group of investors behind him if I recall) thinking of the suns like this passionate thing that they love so dearly?
I love seeing sarver out there cheering, etc…but he’s a banker and works with real estate – meritage homes if I recall….he’s not someone who has had years of experience with the nba…I can’t see how he could be very good at judging players and strategy……I don’t think of sarver as a cheapskate or anything, the crazy shaq contract and other moves show that…I just think there are a few people (owners – coaches) in this league who live basketball…who watch players like I watch my kids…with everything they are….and they aren’t in the position sarver is….sarver is in a position where he has to pay attention to the money side of it – somewhat at least….the az republic article that we’d give up shaq to dallas to get dampier and stackhouse might have been the lamest thing I’ve ever read
My point, it’s kerr I’m disappointed in…he’s the one with the basketball experience….but just to move in one direction with porter (even though I didn’t like it…not as much fun to watch…at least I understood it), then the other with gentry…I think we had some strong horses under the hood this season, but I don’t think we had a driver…
One thing needs to be said, and I think is likely very true…this team…most of them on it simply didn’t give porter much effort, I think after playing with vacation style practice d’antoni – having any coach come in and tell you – that you actually have to work…simply didn’t set well with this team…I’m willing to bet that shaq / nash / others used the excuse that they’re old…they need to save their strength for games – as an excuse not to get behind porter…just a guess of course…
One other thing…very very important to point out…the spurs…listen….don’t get mad…the spurs…their style…doesn’t win titles every year, but they stick to it, they don’t give up after 6 months…and I’m pretty sure duncan / parker / and ginobili work harder and are simply smarter than our guys…which ticks me off because I love our guys and not the spurs…but…I call it like I see it….
the saddest thing…how close this suns team before d’antoni was to getting a title, so many bad breaks…joe johnson injury – joe johnson loss
amare injury – another amare injury
marion not being happy –
etc etc
i’m not too upset anymore about marion, he’s gone on to other teams to prove that he’s not an all star level player anymore…but here’s an interesting question….what the fuck happened…
3 years ago this team looked like they were brothers…nash and bell – best friends…and many of the rest – simply got along great – that chemistry is long gone…barnes and jrich are cancers to the team chemistry – ok…maybe they’re not t.o. (terrell owens) level, but they’re not good…
But..back to an earlier thought…what happened with marion….why did he become so unhappy with the suns…was he always like that…from unlv and on? Was is Amare? Was it the 2 yrs with Nash getting mvp? Seriously, can anyone tell me why he was so upset…the team was winning, they were competing, marion played more minutes than anyone…he was recognized…i know he thinks he wasn’t…but that’s bullshit to me, many suns fans loved and still love marion…hell, i watched 5+ miami heat games just because marion was on their team, too discover wade was 10 times the superstar marion ever was or will be…
My guess…jealousy, the suns at one point were so loaded and in their prime
Amare
Nash
Marion
Joe Johnson
Barbosa
seriously…4 all stars at the time easily, i think some great players can’t play with other great players, they have to be the center….was marion one of these types of guys…?
Also, I’ve always thought Nash deserved one mvp, not 2…don’t get me wrong, what nash has done for the suns in 2005-7 is simply a thing of beauty…but I really think it bothered Marion…maybe amare and maybe joe johnson to see nash get so much credit for the suns success…just ate them up…I don’t know…I’m sure they liked nash…but for me…hearing d’antoni talk about nash as being one of the greatest to ever play the game…to me…that made me want to throwup…even if it’s true…it’s a dumb thing to say…it promotes jealousy and is an indirect message to the other players that nash is the center…..i don’t know
I think part of the beauty of Nash’s 2-3 yrs of glory was having 2 insane finishers like amare and marion…and having a defender and shooter like joe johnson….i wonder if a coach like pop, someone who controls his team instead of lets his team control him could’ve made this team last…i honestly think yes….
i’m not very inspired with kerr and sarver right now…I actually find myself wanting nash / hill / and shaq (but mostly the first 2) to go to teams that are going to compete, because, unless something changes…I don’t see the suns competing next year…I hope I’m wrong…I’ll be glad to be wrong…
side story…when I was 10 yrs old, i was in a basketball league at the scottsdale boysclub, they had a fund raising sort of thing, where you (the kid) go out and get pledges or something…I ended up getting 100’s of them and won the top prize of some really cool bike and…….a basketball signed by the phoenix suns…I forget the yr…maybe 1982? The basketball had DJ, Truck Robinson, Larry Nance, Neal Walk, Alvin Adams, Walter Davis and others on it!!! Ok…here’s the dark part of the story…when I was 22 or so (14 yrs ago) I dated a girl and I fell hard, I hadn’t dated too much, and I didn’t have much money, and I had dated this girl for a few months but felt the relationship ending, so…I sold my suns autographed basketball and used the money to give the girlfriend a puppy….
The stupid girl lost the puppy within a month…and I never saw that basketball again…I think I’m not going to rest until I go spend (whatever I have to) to go get that basketball back…here’s the point…I’d probably spend $1000 to get that ball back…but….I think I’d rather have the 2005-6 suns (yr amare was out so much) team ball…because that was such a fun year that if I had the entire season on dvd, I could probably watch it once or twice a yr for a long time…point made…lesson…don’t sell your suns autographed basketball for a puppy…if your going to sell it…it’d better be for sex…ok…just joking…don’t sell it :-) ….well……nevermind……ps…as a cubscout i got to go on the suns court and meet larry nance, pretty cool because within a yr or 2 of that, he won the slam dunk contest..
hmm…not bad…
ok…danny ainge…rich kelley….
ok…$1000 might be too high for a team that didn’t win the title…:-)
Nice post + 1
Colangelo also made me love this team. There was a joy and passion to what the team became that is seductive to people. Currently, i like what i see in toronto. hopefully he can show is that he still has a magic touch.
As for Sarver, my problem with him is that he made business decisions that suck in the long term i.e. selling draft picks that essentially mortage the team’s future and ensured that there is no FRESH CHEAP YOUNG talent. Selling draft picks for cash is cheapskate behaviour and no winning team has indulged in such. This also essentially gave us an AGING EXPENSIVE team. And when he tried to undercut Kerr by talking trades with owners directly, that really took the cake. Batman Sarver & his Robin Kerr deserved an F.
About Porter, the issue is still about Kerr more than anything else because he gave Porter the go-head. That means Kerr owns this team defense issue. He should no better than to try to impose a “we don’t need super stars” team effort Detriot defensive style when we have too many super stars “nash”, “i think i am a super star” Amare, “i still am a super star compared to all those fried chicken centres” shaq, “i am a super star dunker but just don’T expect me to play super defense” JRich. Maybe they can play better defense but a shut-down swarming Detriot defense? NO WAY. NO HOW.
Kerr also owns the lack of defensive streak of this year because he traded our best defenders away i.e. Marion, Bell and Diaw. When ageing Grant Hill, my favourite in the team, is our best defender and cannot push off on his left foot, then “We got problems
Houston.” I covered this here:
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/4/2/820253/defensive-deficiency-two-trades
But 2 culprits are also responsible for the messy team defense becos they have the biggest reps in the team: Nash and Shaq. Matt from Hardwood Paroxysm puts it best in footnotes 12 &13:
Exerpt:
“Steve Nash cannot start in this league unless he’s next to a lock-down defensive two with size (kind of like Raja Bell in 2006, but whatever).”
“There are only about fifteen bigs in the league who can really defend it well. But if you watch the games closely, you’ll notice something. Barnes/Dudley/Amundson/Hill gets crossed over/blown by and his man is on a beeline for the rim. Now Shaq can move over, deflect the shot, probably get the call, and stop the play. But he doesn’t. Because he might get posterized. He actually drifts away from the play. Stan always tells me that I should notice how well Shaq holds down his man. Well you know? I’d much rather have biggie challenge Josh Howard than make sure Erick Dampier doesn’t hit a 10 foot jumper.”
http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/04/07/around-the-a-in-30-seconds/
What is most telling is that the lack of defensive leadership, be it after trading our best defense players away or the team not able to play Detroit defense, is that we are reduced to playing one on one defense except for the few times that Gentry got the team playing zone defense, which covers 1-2 bad defenders.
That is why super stars and great PGs have career nights due to this mano al mano swiss cheese defense, especially against Nash.
Toronto is trying to create a high octane offense as well but their problem is also like the Suns i.e. swiss cheese one on one defense. “These contending teams have superior size, quickness and strength, as well as the work ethic to shut down opposing offences. In comparison, the Raptors don’t appear to have any of these things. Currently, Shawn Marion is the only above-average defender in the starting lineup and nobody knows whether he wants to return to Toronto next season or if Colangelo is willing to pay him what he wants.” The writer also makes a great call at the end on who to draft, besides getting Trevor Ariza. Do have a read:
http://www.raptorblog.com/090407a.php
As D Antoni’s loose practise style, there is a point to it. High Octane 7SOL creates a lot of wear and tear on the key players. Exhibit A: Chris Duhon of the Knicks. The players need more rest time than average.
Totally agree with your Spurs point. SPURS AND THEIR FANS KEPT THE FAITH. SUNS AND THEIR FANS TRASHED THEIRS.
I covered this in 2 threads which got me a lot of heat but i have no regrets about it. It also includes how locker room chatter was magnified by blogger mania into something serious and how players and even coaches have been made scapegoats for the team’s misfortunes.
Do have a read:
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/2/11/757014/the-problem-s-not-with-ama
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2009/2/22/768196/taking-another-look-at-ker
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