How to evaluate trade rumors: A guide for Suns fans
With the Suns season winding down quickly the talk has already turned to the summer's trade activity and deals the Suns might do to get better be it a quick fix or a totally rebuild.
We will get into that more on this site as the weeks roll on but in the mean time rumors are already flying so here's my guide for how to process and interpret the various things you might hear or come across over the next few weeks and months.
1. 0 What the Suns need
This is obviously the number one priority. It doesn't matter who wants to play where or what team might want what player, any deal has to make sense for the Phoenix Suns and that means two things: Salary relief and players that fit.
1.1 How the Suns can cut payroll
The Suns financial situation has been detailed and the bottom line is cutting at about $10m to $12m* from the roster.
Given the players under contract the Suns have for next year the only way to do this is to trade with a team that is under the salary cap. Not the luxury tax line but the salary cap which is projected to be about $57m.
I am no CBA guru but I did consult with the great CBA FAQ and my understanding is that if the Suns trade with a team over the cap they have to give up a contract of equal value. There is the $125% rule which allows a team to take on a contract of greater value then the one they are giving up but that doesn't help the Suns who are trying to reduce payroll. A trade of this type therefore defeats the purpose entirely.
All of this goes out the window if a team is under the salary cap. Memphis and Detroit for example both only have about $39m in signed contracts on their books next year. That means they will be $18m under the cap. We could in theory trade Shaq to Memphis for $18m in cap space and only take back about $3m in contracts.
The point here is to focus on those teams with cap space. We can make trades with them to get draft picks and cheaper salaries.
Pretend that Oklahoma ends up with the number 2 pick in the draft and the Suns are 14th. The Thunder already have a ton of young players and what they want is a veteran big man. We could trade them our #14 pick and Amare for their #2 pick and maybe their #1 pick in 2012.
In this case the Suns would save Amare's $16.3m for next year but of course would have to sign the #2 pick to a rookie deal of $3.7m per the CBA's rookie scale. Net savings to the Suns would be about $12.6m.This example has other issues but ignore those for now for the purpose of understanding the cap math.
As you can see, there are any number of possible combination with any number of teams, but the key things to look for are:
a) Which teams are under the salary cap and by how much. You can refer to this great tool to check that out. Any team over the cap is not a likely trade partner for the Suns
b) Who's drafting where and what their needs are
c) What deals that Suns could do with teams that are drafting early, have a lot of young players already and are under the cap
If you hear a rumor about the Suns trading any big salaries to a team the first thing to do is check if they are over or under the cap and by how much. If they are over the cap you can pretty much forget it from a salary cut perspective.
The only reason to trade for equal contracts is to get a player that the Suns think is a better long term fit which bring us to the second point: Fit and Need
1.2 What the Suns want
This one gets tricky. As we've said before, the one thing the Suns have failed to do is establish and organizational vision and build towards it. Are you going to be a high tempo team with mediocre defense or are you going to emphasize defense and build around a few great scorers. Or any other possible combination.
Right now, it is not clear at all which direction the Suns will go. If I had to guess, and this is only a guess, I would say that Gentry will come back and Kerr will not. If that happens, the Suns will want to push the tempo but also get better defensively.
Frankly, I am not a proponent of any one style as much as I am a believer in setting a direction and sticking to it. The Suns have not done that over the past few years.
Until they do make some key decisions it is impossible to say what the Suns could or should do. The exception to this is super stars. If you can get your hands on a GREAT player you build around that player and adjust. I don't see that happening with the Suns. No one is going to trade a GREAT player to Phoenix and there are no GREAT players on the free agent market this summer and even if they're were the Suns couldn't afford them.
The best chance at getting a franchise player is to draft in the top 2 of this draft. Blake Griffin and Ricky Rubio are the only two players that have that potential and neither of them is a sure thing like LeBron. In the top five there are a few other good options like Jordan Hill or even Thabeet or Harden. Remember that great young players still suck at the NBA level for a few years. There's a reason the Thunder have 55 losses. Young players don't win in the NBA.
The priority to me isn't who gets traded (especially when you consider Shaq, Nash or JRich) but who you can make a deal with and what they are interested in.
Amare is another matter because he's young and going to need a contract extension soon which complicates his situation along with his injury. I think he will be harder to move then Shaq or Nash. Moving JRich will be a long shot based on finding a team that has both a high draft pick AND is under the salary cap AND needs a scoring two guard. Maybe Toronto or Minnesota? It's just too soon to say until we see the draft order.
To complicate matters more, the CBA expires in 2011. It would not make sense for the Suns to sign a big long term deal with a free agent as it is widely anticipated that the new agreement will favor the teams more. Young players, draft picks, or short term deals are going to be the norm for the next year or two. Of course, other teams are thinking the same thing which leaves Amare in limbo. The Suns certainly can just let it play out and see if he chooses to opt out at the end of next season in the middle of a buyers market. A year ago, it was almost certain that Amare would opt out in 2010 but now, it might make sense for him to squeeze the final year out of his current deal just like Shawn Marion did.
Finally, any deal has to replace the out-going player with an incoming one. If the Suns were to trade Shaq they would need to get a big man coming back either in the form of a cheap contract or a draft pick. If the Suns trade Nash then a point guard should be part of the mix. The only exception is if JRich gets traded because he's easily replaced with the current Suns roster and there are plenty of two guards to fill the end of the depth chart.
2.0 Consider the source
When you hear rumors related to Suns potential trades you have to consider the source. Not everything from ESPN is reliable and not everything from a blog is unreliable. You have to use your own experience and judgment to assess credibility. Has this source been right before? What corroboration do they offer?
A big clue for me is if the deal described makes sense. People say a lot of things. If someone told me something interesting I would probably write about it but if it didn't make sense I would also say so.
There is no scoreboard to check to see who's rumors are more true then others so just remember that a rumor is a rumor because it is not a fact.
That said, it is pretty easy to tease out the difference from rumor and speculation. You are going to see a lot speculation presented as rumor. There's a difference.
A rumor is something said by someone who is in position to know something. Often these are undisclosed sources. That's a rumor.
A blog (or Sam Smith) writing about how a certain deal might make sense is not a rumor. It is speculation. Speculation is interesting. It sparks ideas. We do it here all the time. Nothing wrong with speculation. Just don't make the mistake of considering it a rumor.
3.0 Summary
In summary here's a handy guide for evaluating the various rumors, speculation and noise you are going to hear over the next few weeks and months.
- Is the information rumor or speculation. If rumor consider the source
- Is the rumored team under the salary cap
- Where is the rumored team drafting and what are their roster needs
- Evaluate the other teams needs and what they can give the Suns in the way of salary relief, young cheap players, draft picks and how those pieces replace the out-going player
- Ignore all that and just wait and see because none of this matters as we don't have any impact on the actual decision
* The Suns can cut about $6m just by not exercising the team option for the final year of Nash's contract. If they do this, they get nothing back in return and are still on the hook for about $7m next season. I don't think they will do this. I makes more sense to pickup the option and keep Nash or pick up the option and trade Nash. Not picking up the option makes the least sense.
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Good stuff
but shouldn’t there be a “Does it make sense for the other team?” section?
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
Yup
I did say "Evaluate the other teams needs…
and certainly what they need from us is just as important as what we need from them which is why I am not really interested in any specific deals until the draft order is established on May 19th. At this point, there are too many teams with too many specific needs to get into
Blogging Suns Basketball
New blog?
There is no scoreboard to check to see who’s rumors are more true then others so just remember that a rumor is a rumor because it is not a fact.
Why isn’t there a blog for this? With people blogging about such random topics like the D-League, shouldn’t there be something like this?
Blogging at RidiculousUpside
Shaq to Detroit?
Wouldn’t that be the best possible scenario? Dumping salary and Shaq? Don’t know if Dumars would do it, though.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
Not if they are drafting higher then we are
I would rather do a deal with a young team with a top three pick
Blogging Suns Basketball
Just a salary dump
why not just to dump salary to free up space?
Get the 2010 pick from Detroit; Shaq will make sure they’re in the lottery
Mmmmm ... Guinness
It's possible
I just like the idea of getting a high pick as well….if that’s possible
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Apr 8, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions
The Thunder
isn’t giving us two #1’s for Amare. See the Kurt Thomas trade. And I think they’re set in the frontcourt with Green-Durant. And Amare can’t really play center.
Also, trading with teams over the cap MAY save us something too. Say we can do a $20M for $16M swap (something like Shaq for Ben Wallace) and save 4M (which is 8M after luxury tax). And that’d make the first 900lb frontcourt (Shaq-BigZ-Lebron) in NBA history.
And if we’re in salary dump mode, we’re going to suck next year. And the Thunder own our pick.
With the 14th pick of the 2009 NBA draft, the Pheonix Suns select... 3 million dollars!
Yes
as I said, the Amare to Thunder was used only to illustrate the math not as a proposal for a good deal
The CBA prevents us for trading Shaq for Wallace. The salaries must match unless the other team is under the salary cap.
Blogging Suns Basketball
You're right...
I thought Wallace makes 16M next year and Shaq 20M. That would have worked except, after verifying, they are actually 14M and 21M, respectively. So to make that trade work Cavs have to send another $3M of payroll our way.
And I sure sure sure hope hope hope sure hope that Amare doesn’t get traded to the Thunder…
With the 14th pick of the 2009 NBA draft, the Pheonix Suns select... 3 million dollars!
I'm not so sure
Westbrook-Green-Durant-Amare-Thabo is not a whole lot different than the ‘04-’05 Suns
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
A likely deal in the works?
BREAKING: Shaq’s ‘Wish’? To Be A Mav
That’s What O’Neal Tells Friends As He Visits ‘Green Grass’ Of Dallas
By Mike Fisher — DB.com
http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1496
this is the rumor
that prompted me to write this today….which is to say I don’t make much of this. Dallas is over the cap. This deal doesn’t make sense regardless of what Shaq and Cuban might want.
Fisher also was promoter of an Amare to Portland rumor at the trade deadline that never made much sense and of course didn’t happen.
You can think what you want of course, but I don’t make much of this and even the portions in their about the partying need independent verification as far as I am concerned
Blogging Suns Basketball
sounds like wishful thinking to me..
as stan says, it doesn’t add up, although I was not aware that shaq and cuban were cozy…go figure..
one snappy salute
to phoenix stan! enlightening piece dude!
This isn't a trade scenario
but I think they should let Nash go if possible.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee."
Drew Gooden.
I am really very sure that this isn't true
“There’s a reason the Thunder have 55 wins”. If they did they’d be the 2nd seed in the West right now, and probably a contender. Sadly, that was the seeding projection and games-won that I predicted for the Suns, at the start of the season. Lol.
fixed
I had originally started that sentence saying they had 21 wins but changed it to 55 losses but didn’t finish changing it…my bad. Thx
Blogging Suns Basketball
I meant ironically
But sadly works too. This season has been nothing short of misery, with the ONLY exception being the win against the Lakers.
Sigh. So many what-ifs.
With all this hindsight wisdom, I could really use a time-machine.
Shaq and Dallas?
SLAM is talking about Shaq wanting to be with Cuban… As much As I’d like that to happen, I can’t see it. The Mavs are way over the tax, and I doubt they’d be willing to trade Dirk to get him.
I’d like to see them trade to get a high draft pick, but staying at 14 isn’t a bad option, because it looks like there is plent of talent, Like Blair, Teague, Maynor, Curry, Lawson, or Hansbrough.
I’d jsut like to see something happen, I don’t like this team. It’s not going anywhere.
Suns needs vs salary cap
Wow, what a blog. Have you been a Suns fan for very long? Do you actually watch the games?
One moment you talk about the Suns need for a Star and the next moment you suggest trading their Star. Then you talk about the need for defense and then mention keeping Steve Nash.
Neither Amare or Kerr are going anywhere. Sarver and Kerr are buddies who went to UofA. Kerr is a rookie in management and he has made some mistakes. The off season will be interesting. Time to reload/rebuild this team.
Of course not,
Mr. Stan is barely literate, and legally blind, so he can’t really watch games. He relies on a team of highly trained monkeys to run the blog. Seriously, he’s just throwing some ideas out, so don’t get your panties twisted.
"I didn’t even know Elvis was from Memphis, I thought he was from Tennessee."
Drew Gooden.

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