What exactly do you mean by best player ??
So LeBron is awarded, imho, a well deserved MVP. And though his team does have a few other players of all-star or near all-star caliber (Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, D. West, Ben Wallace...) it's clear that he's done the most with less since Nash's 2nd MVP.
In some senses I like the fact that the award is a Most Valuable Player, rather than a best player, because it's so hard to define the best player in any meaningful sense.
In fact, we have a point guard who has just has one of the best all round shooting seasons ever, and a few turnovers not withstanding, might be one of the 5 best passers ever, the best off-hand (i.e left hand, if you're a righty) passer of all time, and one of the best dribblers to ever play. His floor vision is pretty spectacular too.
So clearly, it's not enough to be the most skillful player, there's more.
We have Shaq, who on a good day is still the most imposing physical force in the NBA. Absolutely dominant.
In terms of the psychology of running a team, Chauncey Billups has performed miracles in getting the Nuggets to where they are. It's amazing how much difference a single player can make. I'd point out, though, how much worse the Pistons have gotten without him, and with the addition of Iverson.
Then you look at defense, and the play of Battier & Artest, and see just how much of a difference they make. It's telling, though, that while some great defensive players have won the trophy, no *predominantly defensive* player has won the MVP since Russell.
What I love about LeBron winning, is that for the first time in a long time, the MVP is someone who figures in the conversation in all these aspects of the NBA game. He's not the best at any single thing, but he's legitimately, and without too much hype, top-10 in each of those categories. You can't say the same about any MVP winner, probably since Jordan.
The thing is.. he could be better, and that's simultaneously an exciting and scary thought.
0 recs |
15 comments
Comments
definitely scary
With all the talk around here about what needs to be done to make the Suns a championship contender, i have to sit back and ponder… will it even matter? If Lebron becomes Jordan-esque, in that you can expect a championship every year he plays, we are in for a long ride.
by Funky Flapsack on May 4, 2009 8:58 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
In my mind LeBron is already better than pre-championship Jordan
What Jordan (and Wilt before him) proved is that one player, however great, is not enough to win a title. You need to have a strong supporting cast, and a team that plays well together.
What’s exciting, in the coming years, is the prospect of the overall level of play in the NBA being raised to an entirely new level, a third golden age if you will. Because you know players like Paul, Roy, Rose and Deron Williams aren’t going to just sit there and let him win it all, every year.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on May 4, 2009 9:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree with LeBron as MVP,
what I have a problem with is players in the MVP race getting credit for having a solid team, something they have little or no control over, yet it’s used as part of the selection process every year.
Aprende epsañol y esto tendra mas sentido para ti.
by Diosnomeama on May 5, 2009 8:38 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I profoundly disagree..
Just look at Billups, this year, for an example of the difference a single player can make just in how the team holds itself together. Same with Nash, 3 years ago.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on May 5, 2009 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I disagree with your profound disagreement.
If the front office makes trades that bring in a superior supporting cast, the natural expectation is for the team to get better. If Danny Ferry had traded for Mo Williams, etc. and the team had gotten worse, would that be LeBron’s fault if he played just as well? Probably not. I’m just saying too much emphasis is put on this particular aspect of the selection process.
Aprende epsañol y esto tendra mas sentido para ti.
by Diosnomeama on May 5, 2009 11:07 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what I'm saying...
I’m arguing the whole “players who make their teammates better” thing.
There are players, such as Billups, Nash & LeBron, who tangibly make their teammates better. You only have to look at the Nuggets to see how Billups changed the complexion of that team, and went from being a pretender to a team with a genuine shot at reaching the finals. Or look at Shawn Marion’s stats, since leaving Phoenix, particularly his shooting % to see how much he benefited from playing with Nash.
Mo Williams makes a big difference, sure, but he makes a bigger difference because his play meshes much better with LeBron, than say Marbury would. And it’s a two way thing, btw. Because Williams fits well with LeBron, that allows LeBron’s game to expand. Look at how Nash’s game suffered from not having that connection, early on, with Shaq.
My point about LeBron, is that not only does he have the stats and individual game, but that he able to contribute very strongly in a team sense. The other so-called best players, Kobe and D-Wade don’t contribute anywhere near as strongly in that team sense.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on May 5, 2009 4:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
People were saying that about all three when they had lousy teams.
Now that LeBron has a better team, ditto Kobe, they’re magically “team players”, and few were saying that Wade was selfish when he had Shaq and they won a championship. Maybe I just don’t understand what " most valuable" means.
Aprende epsañol y esto tendra mas sentido para ti.
by Diosnomeama on May 6, 2009 2:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it should be the most VALUABLE player
and yes, LeBron deserved to get it, and D-Wade should be close behind, but where the hell is Billups in this conversation? I would think that all of the Nuggets would easily name him as the most valuable in the league, the way he has led them this year. It’s just the way his numbers aren’t eye-popping that keeps him out of the conversation. Thoughts?
by PHXgp on May 5, 2009 11:08 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
yep... if Billups stats were better he'd get more dap.
sportswriters are dumbasses, for the most part.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on May 5, 2009 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
billups was damn good this season.
and had that sort of leadership quality that won steve nash the MVP two times in a row. but, this year was the year of lebron. even if billups had had 2 more points a game and an assist or two more, he still wouldn’t have gotten any love.
kobe was in the conversation because, well, he’s kobe. he’s an amazing player. but, i don’t think he was good enough to warrant a second selection. wade had a fantastic year, but we saw in the playoffs just how well you can do if you rely on one player so much…which is a first round exit.
i completely agree with the selection of lebron as the MVP. he was, by leaps and bounds, the most deserving, and actually went out to prove a point every night.
by iamtrevorpaxton on May 6, 2009 2:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing about Billups
Here in Maverick-land, the fans are so stupid. They think they have a push at the point guard spot between Kidd and Billups because of the stats. They are clueless. Billups gives his team a chance to win every time out, whereas Kidd is an albatross most of the time because of his bad shooting and slow footed defense.
Let’s face it. Here’s what makes an MVP – it is a talented athlete who plays smart and gives his team a chance to win every time out. He makes smart decisions with the ball. That is why I take exception to Nowitzki being an MVP, because he does some dumb things with the ball.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on May 6, 2009 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
how you can say with such certainty that Nash has made players better. I mean, there is relatively clear bump in performance for many of the players that played on the 2004-2005 through the 2007-2008 or even 2008-2009 Suns teams (note also this isn’t true for all players, like Eddie House who was better before and after the Suns). But Nash is also one of those players that got better. His performance improved dramatically after he returned to the Suns. So unless you’re going to argue that Nash’s playing with himself (yes, that sounds funny) makes him a better player, I’m not sure what your point is here. Instead, I think you could just as easily argue that the Suns made him better not the other way around.
But, likely, what’s true is that the combination of PHX players in the D’Antoni offense made something rather efficient and special that we saw once again when the Suns returned to that offense under Gentry (note also the Knicks jumped from a .475 eFG% last year to a .503 eFG% this year under D’Antoni). But to chalk it up to any one particular player (or even D’Antoni himself) really reduces what was a remarkable team effort in which all of the players were apparently making each other better.
Also, in regard to Billups, I’m not sure there’s much evidence that he made anyone all that much better (Carmelo Anthony has been noticably worse this year). But what is clear that Billups alone is a much better player than Allen Iverson, the player he replaced. Also, he’s actually a PG not a SG trying to play PG. So that fact in isolation explains much of Denver’s improvement (which by the way isn’t much i.e. 50 wins to 54). It’s not that he “led the team” or made other players better. He’s just better than Iverson and that’s enough. Also, you’re giving little credit to Chris Andersen, who’s insanely efficient play, made it possible for the Nuggets not to regress after the loss of Camby. I mean, those two players combined with the health of Nene and a somewhat increase production from Smith (and the loss of Iverson) are why the Nuggs are somewhat better this year. But don’t just point to Billups. Billups doesn’t make Chris Andersen the leagues 2nd leading shot-blocker even though he only plays 20 mpg (!!!!!).
Finally, I don’t know how you can say DWade is not a team player. There is no player, except perhaps Chris Paul, who has done more with less. I mean, DWade’s statistics are very similar to Lebron’s except Lebron is a somewhat better rebounder and 3 point shooter while Wade gets far more steals and a few more blocks. But what is the statistical basis or any basis to say DWade is not a team player? I want to know this.
Lebron might be better than DWade, but to say that his contribution to the Cavs is not only greater than Wade’s contribution to the Heat but so much greater that Wade doesn’t even qualify as a team player is absurd.
Take DWade off the Heat and they’re the Kings. Take Lebron off the Cavs and they’re, at worst, the Bobcats. That’s a hell of a difference.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on May 7, 2009 11:40 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
We need someone like Red Auerbach,
he would steal Andersen from the Nuggets for a box of cigars and 50 dollars in Monopoly money.
Aprende epsañol y esto tendra mas sentido para ti.
by Diosnomeama on May 7, 2009 11:44 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash
won his first MVP solely on the results of the six game losing streak in midseason when he was hurt. The voters never forgot that. the Suns were HELPLESS in those games after starting 31-4. Period. The stark difference was all the voters needed. Whereas I saw the Cavs play some decent games without LeBron, and we are witnessing now that Boston is somewhat decent without KG. But the Suns were a bottom 10 team that year without Nash (Miami is also a bottom ten team without Wade, but they are barely .500 with him). In the playoffs, there was always a big stagnation in our play at tghe late third to early fourth quarter break. I nibbled my fingers to the bone during Steve’s rests, hoping we could hold on as LB and Jim Jackson made turnover after turnover.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on May 7, 2009 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't just the six game streak..
but the fact that the team went from 29 wins the year before to 62 wins. Finishing 1st in the Pacific, by a mile, had a lot to do with his MVP award.
Also, I think in both his MVP award seasons, he didn’t have much quality competition for the award, and even then only barely beat Shaq in the 1st, and had Kobe/LeBron/DWade/Dirk split the vote in the 2nd (i.e Nash didn’t get 50% of the 1st place votes, but those people who didn’t think Nash was the MVP couldn’t decide clearly who was.).
wrt Rosewood’s point re: D-Wade.. I wasn’t saying he isn’t a team player, in the sense that he’s not selfish, but Miami is clearly a one man team, and if he doesn’t play well or doesn’t do the scoring, the team loses. And you can’t be an MVP if you only win 43 games, I’m sorry.
But I’m convinced there are certain players, like Nash and Billups, who make their teammates better. I’d remind people, during the magical Amare-less season, something like 8 players on the Suns squad registered career high in scoring and shooting percentage. Any one of those guys could feel it, step up and have a blinder of a game, and the team would win. We won 54 games, that year, without Amare and when KT went down, without a front-line for 1/3 of the season.
And that’s only reinforced when you look at Shawn Marion’s efficiency stats (shooting %, etc..) since leaving.
The simple point I was making about LeBron, is that when you watch him, you can just see that there’s a clear intent from him to get his teammates involved, to a greater degree than certainly Kobe. I’d accept that D-Wade is equally as team-oriented, but every time I’ve watched the Heat this year, it was like watching those isolation games from the 90’s, with D-Wade going one-on-one trying to win the same by himself. Maybe I haven’t watched enough Heat games this year.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on May 7, 2009 4:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 
















