Time to put your Mockery where your draft is
by Seth Pollack on Jun 18, 2009 12:59 PM MDT
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42 comments
Ok, Bright Side of the Sun'ers. We are officially on the clock for the massive (and highly accurate) SBN Mock Draft v2009.
For an update on the draft so far, check in here.
Based on who's off the board, your comments (which I value highly) and leakings from the Suns camp here's the list of guys I think we have to choose from. In random order:
Earl Clark - Clark is a higly athletic tweener stuck with a body that's big enough to play power forward but the mindset of a perimeter guy. He clearly is a skilled player with a lot of tools, but he's not skilled enough to overcome questions about focus and mental and physical toughness. Reading about this guy reminds me too much of Tim Thomas.
BJ Mullins - Might the Suns consider taking another 7fter in the draft? Mullins is described as having great hands and the ability to catch and finish. He has a great NBA body but he's certainly a project and not likely to contribute any time soon. He might be a poor man's Javale McGee.
Ty Lawson - Lawson is likely the best point guard that might fall to the Suns at 14 in this point guard rich draft. He's on the smaller size as PG's go with an Aaron Brooks type build. He had an incredibly successful college career at UNC (don't under estimate Alvin Gentry's affection for NC kids) with a range of offensive skills as the point guard position. He likely would stuggle defensively against bigger PG's but on the flip side is a guy that can push the ball and give his opponent fits. I am impressed with his ability to both drive and finish or get to along line along with his distribution skills. It is hard to see the Suns draft another PG after putting so much into Dragic but if he's the best player available, you take him about worry about it later.
Austin Daye - Daye is another in the recent crop of rail thin 6'10" wing players that show a lot of skill but not much in the way of toughness or ability to play in the paint. He could another Anthony Randolph type or he could be a total bust. He is coming back to Phoenix for a second look this weekend and has reportedly been high on the Suns draft board. My guess is that the Suns won't take him since he's a poor defender and Kerr still does like defense.
James Johnson - If Draft Express says your high-side potential is Ryan Gomes then I am not going to be impressed. At 6'7" and 257lbs, JJ is a short but solid PF with a range of offensive skills. He can face up, shoot the mid-range J, handle the ball and pass. He's also reported to be a guy that lacks focus and doesn't make good quick decisions defensively. Sound familiar?
Terrence Williams - A shooting guard with a reputation as a lock down defender that is strong and athletic. Not known for his shooting or even his finishing ability, TWill reminds me a Dahntay Jones type of player. The Suns certainly could use that type of SG but with JRich, Barbosa and Tucker on the roster this is by far the deepest position and as Dahntay Jones showed, locked down defensive two's and three's that are limited offensively can be had cheaper then the 14th pick
So there you have it. I am leaning hard towards Ty Lawson. What do you all think?
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You guys will obviously know more about the teams needs than me
but if the Suns are seriously looking at dealing Amar’e &/or Shaq, maybe going ‘big’ (Clark or Hansbrough or someone) is the best idea.
Or a wing, because your 3’s (if the depth charts & all are right) are Hill & Barnes, 2 FAs.
I’d ask about taking Lawson the year after adding Dragic, but you’ve already mentioned it so I’ll avoid that.
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by UtesFan89 on Jun 18, 2009 1:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup
but I think Best Player Available is the right move here and none of those bigs impress me that much
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 18, 2009 1:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
TWill reminds me of Raja Bell (when everything works out)
But as the Suns I would probably draft a PG to have a competition who replaces Nash.
by Norsktroll on Jun 18, 2009 1:09 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I like TWill too
just not at 14…look at Bell. He was undrafted. Dahntay Jones. Anthony Parker. Those guys are out there for cheaper then the 14th pick.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 18, 2009 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll but that but if thats the case how come we don’t have one if they are out there
by overthere on Jun 18, 2009 1:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
Dahntay Jones was the #20 pick in 2003 by Boston (he then dealt on Memphis with Troy Bell for Marcus Banks & Kendrick Perkins in a draft day deal involving just the 4 rookies, but that’s all irrelevant).
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by UtesFan89 on Jun 18, 2009 4:15 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!
He also played in the D-League, where he honed his defensive prowess. You guys should just try drafting a D-League player instead of a college player..
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by Scott Schroeder on Jun 18, 2009 4:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. But they need a stopper. One step at a time.
by overthere on Jun 18, 2009 1:23 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's really hard to choose.
Especially since we don’t have an exact Idea of what Kerr is going to do with Shaq, Amare, Etc. Of course that doesn’t have too much of an influence on getting the best available, which they say they’re going to do, but I feel they will stray away from that if they make a trade.
For me it’s between Lawson and Williams. Both fast and athletic. Of course as said earlier Lawson is more of the offensive type while Williams is more defense.
I’m gonna have T-Will edge out Lawson. Only IF he can prove that his offense is improved which hopefully Griff and Kerr will inform us of. Otherwise Lawson gets my nod because I have to agree with Phoenix Stan that you can get a Williams type player cheaper than the 14th pick
by Batmanthesunsfan on Jun 18, 2009 1:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
If you have to rig this voting, Phoenix Stan
to make sure we end up with Lawson, I’m okay with that. Just saying
by UASun on Jun 18, 2009 1:46 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday i was leaning towards James Johnson
But now Ty Lawson. And here’s why
by Funky Flapsack on Jun 18, 2009 1:49 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't have insider, what does it say?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 18, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crap, didnt know it was an insider article; here's a quote
The pleasant surprise: Ty Lawson
There are two players who are neck-and-neck for the top spot in this year’s Draft Rater. You could easily guess that one of them is Blake Griffin, but most folks never would have guessed that the other is Lawson.
Lawson, who is coming off an electric performance leading North Carolina to the championship, grades out highly for several reasons: Though he’s short for a point guard, his shooting numbers (47.1 percent on 3-pointers), strong assist rate and microscopic turnover ratio (9.1, first among point guard prospects) all point to him as an NBA keeper.
The Draft Rater puts Lawson slightly ahead of Griffin for first, but this doesn’t mean a team should take Lawson first — the standard error in the projections for point guards is higher than it is for big men, which means random noise could be putting Lawson ahead just as easily as court performance. If the consensus is that Griffin is the better player, I don’t think Lawson’s statistical record alone is strong enough evidence to refute it. Additionally, we’ve heard questions about Lawson’s work ethic and injuries.
But the rating is emphatic enough for me to say Lawson should be at the top of the college point guard ladder, ahead of Jonny Flynn, Jrue Holiday, Jeff Teague and Co. (If you’re wondering about Ricky Rubio, I’ll have more on him next week.)
by Funky Flapsack on Jun 18, 2009 2:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Then again, Hollinger is a tool, so I don’t know how valid this is :-D
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 18, 2009 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=915030
Seems like this ranking system has merit.
I’m kind of sort of okay with Lawson now :o
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 18, 2009 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
i have the feeling he’ll be a pleasant surprise
by Funky Flapsack on Jun 18, 2009 3:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
This comes from the Jazz writer for the SL Tribune...
Is North Carolina’s Ty Lawson this draft’s version of Russell Westbrook? Last year, Westbrook was considered a mid-first round pick until teams started seeing him in predraft workouts. He jumped all the way to No. 4 and, today, he looks like Oklahoma’s City point guard for the next 10 years. Some say Lawson’s workouts have similarly impacted his draft status and now, instead of being a late first-rounder, he could be a lottery pick.
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by UtesFan89 on Jun 18, 2009 4:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark, Lawson, Williams
I would really have to say that I could live with any of those picks. I voted for Clark, simply because he’s got some rare tools, but both Lawson and Williams have far better productivity numbers and they’re both big time athletes as well.
I will say that Williams has a bit more going on for him than guys like Bell or Jones though. I mean, he’s not an offensive player (though he’s already decent a catch and shoot player), but in addition to his man defense he also bring insane rebounding for a guard, very solid passing, and is more of a ball hawk than Bell ever was.
So while Bell and Jones are mainly guys who the stat sheet can’t capture, Williams very much is. He’s a stat stuffer kind of guy who does a lot things well besides just man defense (i.e. steals, rebounds, and assists).
So yeah: Clark, Lawson, or Williams. I’m indifferent.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jun 18, 2009 2:00 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Lawson
I like Lawson as the best player available. There’s worse things to have than a glut of point guards (just ask the Magic).
I also like T-Will, but I’ll buy Stan’s argument that he, or players like him, can be had for less.
That said, I think Austin Daye is intriguing. I know his size freaks everyone out, but if there was a ever a franchise more well-positioned to wring the most out a player’s body, it’s the Suns.
Anyway, Lawson makes good sense to me.
by Mike Lisboa on Jun 18, 2009 2:14 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
It's gotta be Austin Daye....
I mean come on!!! 6’10" Huge wingspan…easy pickings for the Shaqtus to prey on. He’s comedy (and basketball) gold!
by Aisander D on Jun 18, 2009 2:22 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Earl Clark fans
Guys we just a have a few hours left before our official mock draft. The vote is leaning towards Clark but I am not convinced at all and since I have the vote, someone needs to really step up from the Clark camp and convince me.
Otherwise I am going to go Iran on your asses and mock the vote.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 18, 2009 2:24 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's my thinking
This draft is notoriously weak, and every draft is pretty much a crapshoot. The odds of getting a contributer at 14 are slim, so why not just shoot for the stars and draft the guy with the highest potential?
That man is Earl Clark.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 18, 2009 2:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Here's my thinking
to add my 2c to your thinking,
I completely agree that by 14 it’s complete crapshoot, so IMHO why not go with a guy who has already proven he can stand up against the best NBA players, playing in their prime?
They guy i’m talking about is Patrick Mills.
In the olympics he was a stand out, playing against CP3, Deron williams and Jason Kidd, top scored for Australia (even with Bogut banging down low), and was the reason Australia was actually putting up a contest against the USA Juggernaut.
He’s highly regarded by Chris Paul (who wants the hornets to draft him at #21)
He’d be a great backup PG for nash, and could run the floor with nash on the bench.
A proven talent with high potential, exactly what PHX should go for with their #14 pick.
by Chucko667 on Jun 18, 2009 6:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the case for Earl Clark
He has massive potential – he didn’t really produce in college, or at any level, really but he has an athletic look, and allegedy if you’re 6 foot 7 and athletic you are instantly good at basketball.
Yes, yes, he has trouble being motivated – but it’s not like you need to be motivated when you have that much potential. It will develop naturally.
Besides, it’s not like small, lightining quick point guards have any success in the NBA – just look how bad Aaron Brooks and Jameer Nelson were this year!
Crap – did I- did I just make Earl Clark look bad?
by UASun on Jun 18, 2009 3:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark
is 6’8.5" w/o shoes and has a 9’1.5" standing reach. For comparison, Amare has 9’0.5" standing reach. And Clark can dribble like a guard. I’m not saying he’s better than Amare or even necessarily than Lawson for that matter, but 1) you have to respect his size/attributes for being as unique as they are and 2) he’s very skilled as well.
And to say he didn’t produce is too much. Maybe he didn’t produce up to his potential but his production was still strong (though not as good as it was last year).
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jun 18, 2009 3:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did he produce???
He averaged 14 points a game as the number one scoring option on that Louisville team. He didn’t rebound great, he averaged only 3 assists a game (so much for a point forward!), and he shot 32% from the COLLEGE three point line.
And it’s not like this guy is right out high school! He’s a junior. We’ve seen what he can do.
Lawson scored more on a stacked UNC team. He is an point GUARD, and he can shoot.
Whats more, Lawson has shown significant growth each an every year. Which is even more significant considering the amount of talent Lawson has had to compete with for playing time and touches
by UASun on Jun 18, 2009 3:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I'm just not seeing your point here
As far as being a no. 1 option, sure though he was if anything more of a 1A with Williams as 1B (Clark took a remarkable 1 more shot than Williams a game), and Lawson was the clear no.2 option behind Tyler, so it’s not as though he was working as a third or fourth option.
Also: 3.2 assts/g for a SF/PF is outstanding and I have trouble understanding how over 8 rebounds a game is ever poor. Plus, he’s 1.2 steals and 1.6 blocks/g
I’m failing to see how this is not good production. It is not, as i said up to his potential, nor is it elite for a college player and that is the valid knock on him; his numbers didn’t jump as his prior year would have indicated. But this is quality production for any college player.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jun 18, 2009 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark
Like Rsavaj said, he seems to have the highest ceiling of any of the available players, so that makes him worthy of consideration.
But I think what I really like about Clark is that he has point-forward skills (i.e. he has great court vision and can handle the ball) and having a player who can bring that skill to an offense can really give the Suns a lot rotational options and make LB a lot more viable at the 1. Plus, if you look at the top teams in the NBA many of them rely to varying degrees on point-forward types of players (Hedo, Odom, Lebron, Pierce), so I don’t think it’s crazy to say that in today’s NBA having a player with that kind of versatility is desirable, if not necessary, because you need someone who can defend those Point-forwards as well.
And to that point: Clark has outstanding defensive skills and should help the Suns greatly on…drumroll…the pick and roll because he’s got the quickness to stay at least reasonably well with a perimeter player but the size to stay with a big if necessary. Also, Clark rebounds well.
So when you add up his defensive productivity (he’s not just potential on that end), his defensive versatility, his ball handling for a 6’8.5" w/o shoes player, his court vision, his rebounding, his ability to play point-forward, and his outstanding athleticism, you end up with a sum that I would say is higher (much higher) than his motivational/softness issues. He’s a unique player, and that’s why I’d probably go with him.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
by rosewood on Jun 18, 2009 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah man
I was just about to channel my inner Achmedinadajinaj and over rule the vote…now, I am going to at least have to read more on Clark first
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 18, 2009 3:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do it Arjhamadad.
Not sure if that’s his last name. Just typed in a bunch of random letters
by Funky Flapsack on Jun 18, 2009 4:54 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark, Williams or Johnson I'll be okay with
Daye I don’t know anything about.
I think Lawson’s a really risky pick.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 18, 2009 2:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
man
you guys draft worse than Kerr
by Funky Flapsack on Jun 18, 2009 4:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Lawson
Besides being one of the hardest PGs to evaluate, there’s no way Steve Kerr would do this. I like him, but that would be admitting Kerr screwed up with Dragic literally making every move he has made as Suns GM a disaster that needed to be scrapped.
by runningdonut on Jun 18, 2009 4:49 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
i have to disagree
it would create competition for the backup PG, while ensuring that you are set for the position for years to come. Plus, who knows, it could be used as a trading chip later on
by Funky Flapsack on Jun 18, 2009 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pick has been made
thank you all for playing, the results of the election will be posted on RU….whenever Scott feels like it I guess.
Seriously though. Thanks for the discussion. Great stuff
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 18, 2009 5:13 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Lawson or Williams
and I’m leaning toward Lawson at this point. He has great Basketball IQ and that can help is his future develoment.
by PHXgp on Jun 18, 2009 6:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
If this is how it works out, we will get a starter
I am surprised Earl Clark is still out there, and I can’t figure why Maynor has slipped so bad. My choice is James Johnson, but only because Clark has a creampuff reputation, and I am leery of Maynor slipping so far. If we draft Lawson, I hope to heck he isn’t another Rocket Rod Foster. I think JJ is a sure thing. I like his size.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jun 18, 2009 10:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Maynor will be a sleeper now
Watch him drop to a contender, and flourish, and come back to bite us. I think he could be this year’s Mario Chalmers, where he was a potential late lottery talent, who fell to the 2nd round. As for Earl Clark, I just think he’s a bust waiting to happen.
by Aluminum Foyle on Jun 19, 2009 7:35 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phoenix Stan...
I grew up a North Carolina fan but I still avoided Ty for the Suns. I don’t know what I was thinking with Terrence Williams over Ty . You made me realize my faults of avoiding my boy Ty Lawson with your mock draft selection. So I thank you
by Batmanthesunsfan on Jun 18, 2009 10:55 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
So...
I accidentally voted for Austin Daye instead of James Johnson.
I’d apologize for potentially misleading you, but I guess that’s not necessary because neither guy was anywhere close to winning the vote.
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RIP Nick Adenhart. 4/9/09
by UtesFan89 on Jun 18, 2009 11:30 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
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