Strange, Strange Amare Rumor
by jburning on Jun 2, 2009 6:41 PM MDT
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PrintAnyone listening to KTAR today, when Gambo & Ash were talking about a supposed trade floating around that would send Amare Stoudemire and perhaps Leandro Barbosa to the Celtics, and they would send back Rajon Rondo and Ray Allen? I've never heard a trade that made less sense. The Celtics give up possibly their MVP, certainly one of the best young point guards in the league, if not the best outside of Chris Paul, so that they can have two starting power forwards (albeit two of the best power forwards in the league), with only Stephon Marbury or Gabe Pruitt to give them the ball? Very, very odd if that's an actual trade being discussed, but it just sounds like they pulled it out of their asses.
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Very interesting and not what I was expecting.
it’s very odd but GAMBO said “I promise this can happen” which leads me to believe that their is at least a little merit to it. He also said the same of the Wizards trade which would yield Butler, McGee and Young. Here is a look at a couple potential starting lineups assuming we were able to keep the 14th pick and kept Shaq, which one would be better?
Rondo/Allen/Richardson/Clark(14)/Shaq
Nash/Richardson/Butler/Clark(14)/Shaq
You can substitute James Johnson or a free agent signing at the PF position. Maybe we could sign Kleiza to play the 4 and we would have a hell of a 3 point shooting squad.
Hmmm.
Is the Suns organization putting words in G&A’s mouths to create a false market for Stoudemire?
Nonsense
Dumbadoro always has “sources” and they are never right. Nice deals for the suns, that’s why they won’t happen!
He's pretty careful
about not saying things that aren’t well sourced.
He’s not saying this is going to happen just that it’s been discussed. I tend to believe that. He’s not the type to make shit up
Blogging Suns Basketball
Yeah, but
from what I heard him saying, he said this was a rumor … which is different than when he says he actually has a source
Also, he guaranteed Amare would be gone before last season’s trade deadline. Now, he “guaranteeing” that Amare will be gone this offseason.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
True
but his “guaranteeing” is his opinion vs things like this where he is “reporting” that someone told him and I do believe that someone would have to be in a position to know for him to talk about it.
I think it is more likely that info like this is feed to him purposefully so that it will be discussed. A trial balloon if you will from the suns
Blogging Suns Basketball
Hmm
That doesn’t make any sense at all for Boston unless they are planning on acquiring a big time PG.
But then what would Phoenix do with Nash and Dragic? This trade sounds too weird to be legit
There is no way the Celtics trade Rondo..
Given the level he was playing at during the playoffs, and the kind of person he is, it’s only a question of time before he becomes consistent.
His yearly or playoff stat line might not show it but, imho, Rondo’s best is just as good as Chris Paul’s, if not better, and given that Allen & Garnett have a limited # of years left, it’s clear that the Celtics will want to build around him for the future.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
I actually don't think he's all that great.
He’s great defensively, good passer, terrible shooter. It can’t be good when opposing players give you that much distance on every possession.
He just looks so good because of Allen, Pierce and Garnett.
did you watch the Bulls series..
Without Garnett on the floor, and with a sprained ankle, Rondo basically carried the Celts to victory in that series with 3 triple doubles, and a couple of games where he was close. And he had 3 triple doubles in the Orlando series. But the guy is inconsistent, so sprinkled between those highly productive games were a couple of 2-12 shooting clunkers, and the usual poor free throw shooting games.
I’m not usually one to cite stats or box scores, because they don’t expose the true contribution of a player, but I think in this case, they do highlight the general gist of what he did.
For the playoffs, he averaged 16.9 pts, 9.7 boards and 9.8 asts, with shooting percentages of 41.7% overall, 25% 3pt, and 65.7% ft, which while inefficient, is an impressive set of stats. Let’s be honest, If Jason Kidd had delivered that exact line, the media would be talking about what a brilliant playoffs he’d had.
So understand exactly what I said in my previous post. Rondo’s best play (lets say his averages over his best 10% of games) compares very favorably overall with any point guard in the league right now, including Paul and Nash, but he’s not as consistent as either of them, so on any given night you don’t what you’re going to get from him. btw, Nash’s shooting is way beyond either of those two’s ability, and both Nash and Paul can give you 35 pts & 20 asts on a good night, but not the rebounds, so it’s not a completely apples to apples comparison.
But as he gets older (and he’s only in his 3rd season, right now), and spends time working in the gym, his shooting should improve, and he should become more consistent overall. And that scary good player is someone the Celtics should covet.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 2, 2009 11:21 PM MDT up reply actions
Shooting should
certainly improve. Look at Tony Parker and Devin Harris
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 2, 2009 11:33 PM MDT up reply actions
It'll
improve, but he’s really a bad shooter. Like 37% on jumpshots 64% from the line bad.
For comparison, Paul, who isn’t even known as a shooter, shot 49% on jumpers.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
Hey
Paul is only in his fourth year and a whopping 9 mos older than Rondo. He is only getting better as well and he is already a scary good player i.e. the best PG in the league.
As far as rebounding goes, Paul rebounds better than Rondo on the defensive end. Rondo is simply a better offensive rebounder (which makes sense since he takes half as many shots as Paul).
But as great as Rondo was in the playoffs (and he was pretty great), let’s just keep in mind that when he had to take on an increased offensive role his efficiency plummeted. Paul is New Orleans no.1 option every night and is one of if not the most efficient PG in the league (he is certainly the most productive).
Rondo is very good and underrated. But not only will he need to increase his consistency, but he’ll need to demonstrate that he can efficiently produce in the “alpha-dog” role as its much easier to be efficient when you’re a complementary option and 32% of your made baskets are assisted (unlike Paul who only had 14% asstd.)
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
yes, Chris Paul is the MVPG (most valuable point guard)
no question. Whether he’s the best depends on your definition of best, and I don’t want to have that argument now. I’d just say it’s clear that Chris was better than Rajon during the regular season, but Rajon was better during the post season.
You’re absolutely right about their current relative efficiencies, and Rondo’s need to improve his consistency. I think I said as much above.
But, the question in my mind, and the reason I focused ion best play, is the relative ceilings of Paul’s and Rondo’s games, and my feeling is that while maturing earlier, Chris Paul is pretty close to his, whereas Rajon, I don’t think, is even close to his. And from what I know of Rajon, he’s the kind of guy who will spend time woodshedding to improve his game.
Certainly his shooting has to improve, especially his 3pt shooting and his ft shooting, but that’s something that comes with work, as it has, and as it did for Chris Paul who has shown improvement in his shooting over each of the last four seasons (and my point wrt Rondo’s 3rd season, wasn’t intended to be a comparison to Paul, but merely to highlight his youth and the opportunity/space for improvement. Nash might be the only NBA player ever who got significantly better after the age of 30).
Moreover, if he can eliminate those bonehead games he has a tendency to produce (where he shoots 2 for 12, and dishes out 5 assists), then that will do much to raise his floor.
As for rebounding, I think you’re wrong, but not strongly. If you look at the playoffs, Rondo had 21.9% of his team’s defensive boards, and 14% of the overall rebounding (which is Tim Duncan territory), vs. 11.4% and 6.7% respectively for Chris Paul (and Paul’s rebounding percentages were better this year than last).
So Rondo has a massive advantage there, but during the regular season, Rondo’s percentages are 13.9% and 9.6%, vs Chris Paul’s 14.6% and 8.7%, which speaks to your point. Of course, Chris Paul doesn’t have Kevin Garnett grabbing all the boards, which would reduce anyone’s rebounding opportunities, and when Garnett retires, Rondo’s percentages will undoubtedly improve.
Can Rondo be what you call the alpha-dog? I think he’s shown signs that he can during the playoffs, but no one will know for sure until all of the big 3 retire. I’d say that it’s not clear, at least to me, whether it’s easier to shoot when you’re the 4th option, where you’re going to be the recipient of some last second, low percentage shot opportunities, or whether being the 1st option, making the decision whether to shoot or pass, and hence giving yourself inherently higher percentage shot opportunities.
Given the efficiency of Nash, Stockton and Paul, the evidence would suggest it’s easier to be efficient when you’re making the decisions on whether to pass or shoot. Rondo doesn’t have that game, yet.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2009 12:57 AM MDT up reply actions
Paul > Rondo
I can see that you think that Rondo has more upside potential despite Paul being the better player at the moment, but what is this potential upside for Rondo based on? If the Celtics thought that Rondo had such a high celiing, then they wouldn’t be entertaining trading him, and they’re the ones who have all the information on Rondo, so what does that tell you?
Paul is the kind of guy you can build a franchise around, kinda like Nash, he’s a leader, and quite capable in running the offense of a team
Rondo is the kinda guy who fills the PG spot nicely, but not much else.
I very much doubt the Celtics are trading Rondo..
that’s my point.
As for his upside, despite my dislike for box-scores, I think 6 triple doubles, and two near misses in 14 playoff games speaks for itself. That’s hardly filling in the PG spot, imho.
It’s the kind of statistical production that would be considered legendary if it had been done by Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd or any of the great point guards, and is only not in that category because in the other games he played poorly.
Like I said, I’m basing this opinion on Rondo’s best games, and ignoring those bad games and his current average regular season production, as I explained above.
It’s clear, from his good games, and he’s had enough of them for them not to be a fluke, that his ceiling is high. The question I’m asking is whether Rondo can raise the floor of his game, and consequently become more consistent.
BTW, on this subject, Gambo & Ash are talking out of their ample asses, with their mouths full. If you take the time to read the Boston press, such as the Boston Globe, you’ll know there’s no way the Celtics will trade Rondo, at this time, except maybe for LeBron.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2009 1:54 AM MDT up reply actions
Rondo
So you’re basically saying Rondo’s streaky, and therefore has an upside?
There are lots of streaky players out there (see Ben Gordon) who have always been, and will always be streaky.
I would say consistant improvement would be a greater upside than occasional greatness.
I'm saying he hasn't matured, yet.
Not even close.
You’re not wrong about consistent improvement, the question is what is Rondo’s 80% game going to look like, when he does finally mature, i.e. his baseline game he brings in day in and day out. He’s only streaky in the sense that he isn’t very good/efficient at some things, right now (like 3pt and ft shooting), but occasionally has truly efficient games.
By the same judgment, you could consider Nash streaky, since he generally shoots 6 for 11, but occasionally has 15 for 18 games. Same difference, only Nash’s floor is higher.
But Rondo’s performance in this year’s playoffs hasn’t been occasional greatness, it has been some great games, followed by some real stinkers. He’s gotten triple-doubles in 6 of the 14 games he’s played in the postseason, i.e. a triple-double in nearly half of those games. That’s an amazing level of statistical production, and I don’t understand how you could think of it as being mundane.
Anyway, point guards take time to mature. Our point guard didn’t become truly good until he was 28 (the year in Dallas with Nick Van Exel as his backcourt partner).
Chris Paul is the exception to the rule, in many senses, and it’s unrealistic to except many point guards to be that good that quickly, especially if you’re in a situation that relegates you to being the 4th option on your team, reducing playmaking opportunities.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2009 11:01 PM MDT up reply actions
you're making my point.
“But Rondo’s performance in this year’s playoffs hasn’t been occasional greatness, it has been some great games, followed by some real stinkers. " = Streaky.
I think it's different from streaky..
streaky is when you have good games and bad games, but your average or overall skill level across seasons doesn’t change much. Fundamentally, such players are limited skill wise, and they’ve reached their peak with regards to consistency.
Rondo is a little different, imho, because he’s just not very good at some things, right now, but has shown significant forward progress each season he’s played. His best games, because he’s had more than a few of them, show he has the ability to be really good at those things. He’s not like Scott Skiles who had one great game in his career, and fluked his way to owning the single game assists record.
The inconsistency comes from a lack of repetition and practice.
But I’m really not going to argue the point, just to split a hair. I just think in 2 seasons, as his skill level and consistency improves, and as he takes on more responsibility and playing time, Rajon’s going to be consistently better than Chris Paul (ie say, every 5 games out of 9). Time will tell.
btw, I didn’t think that a month ago.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2009 2:51 AM MDT up reply actions
Or
given the inefficiency of Marbury, Iverson, Derrick Rose, Joe Johnson, and Baron Davis and countless other ball dominant “playmakers,” perhaps we should realize how rare players who can do that well are.
Also about “last second shots”: Paul and Rondo shot the same percentage of last second shots i.e. 19% of each players FGAs were taken with 21+ seconds gone from the shot clock. On those shots, Rondo shot 47% and Paul shot 45%. Importantly, however, Rondo had 39% of his made baskets in that time assisted, which is not only far, far more than Paul (17%) but even far more than his normal assisted basket percentage (32%).
Lesson: When the clock is going down, Rondo is more likely than normal (and far more likely than Paul) to receive a good look via pass from a teammate.
So I don’t know that there’s any reason to think that 4th options, at least in this case, take more difficult shots than 1st options. In fact, the opposite seems true. And let’s not forget the most obvious difference between Rondo and Paul. When teams play the Hornets, their entire defensive game plan revolves around stopping Paul; I don’t think any one would say that is true of Rondo.
Also: I don’t think Paul is anywhere near his ceiling. But there’s nothing to argue with that. Just my opinion.
And just a final fun fact that doesn’t really support either of us: Both players played lousy in both NOH/BOS matchups this year.
Purchasing my Dragic jersey
yeah, I should have qualified that statement
with if you have the ability to make those decisions. quite right. Stephon Marbury.. good grief.
But I think, if you’re the 1st option and a pass-first pg, the decision whether to shoot or pass is naturally in your hands, and you’ll take a high percentage shot if it’s there, and pass if it’s not. When I watch Paul and Nash, that’s part of the decision making I see, and is why both of those guys have a low assisted shooting percentage. I think Stockton’s was higher, because of Malone’s passing on the P&R.
Your numbers speak to the point I was actually making wrt Chris Paul, which is that he shoots at a significantly percentage when he’s making the decision when to shoot, as opposed to when he’s the recipient of a pass.
If you’re a team like Boston, which is not so point oriented as New Orleans, then the way the ball gets passed is fundamentally different, and the action isn’t as directed as it would be with Chris Paul controlling the game. My guess, is that there’s at least an extra pass and maybe two, on average, for each offensive play for Boston vs New Orleans, and far more passing from the 3 & 4 slots.
In this system, Rondo doesn’t have as many opportunities to make those shoot or pass decisions, that Chris Paul would make, and consequently hasn’t developed that ability to any degree. That will change, to some degree, as the big three retire, and the Celtics offense starts to revolve around him. How that shakes out is the $64,000 question.
So, your point about the different systems in Boston and New Orleans is well taken, and is what makes the reasoning more difficult, from my point of view. And, I’ve gotta say, I only reached this conclusion after watching this years playoffs, and seeing Rondo step up. Previously, I’d thought of him as a poor man’s Dennis Johnson.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2009 2:39 AM MDT up reply actions
yes, i think so.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 2, 2009 11:30 PM MDT up reply actions
makes no sense for anyone involved
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Totally, +1
Out of all the fantasy trades people come up with, they managed to find one with no benefit to either team. I really like the idea of a Rondo/Barbs backcourt though, sad to imagine that could have very well been a reality.
by hcblankscreen on Jun 3, 2009 5:30 AM MDT up reply actions
if Kerr has other deals in place....
it would make sense if we were re-building now. What better position to start a re-build with than the PG, and Rondo is a damn good one. So to start you have your pg of the future matched up with J-Rich for a few years which makes a better backcourt.
Nash is clearly gone if this happens, but where to? Perhaps to NY for Harrington(2010 cap space) & pick(Derozen?)
So this season we play with a lineup of
Rondo/Dragic
Allen/Tucker
Richardson/Derozen/Dudley
Harrington/Lou
Shaq/Fro
At the bear minimum we’re still entertaining as hell with some impressive 3 pt. shooters, remember JRich played SF at Golden State and plays better off ball. That team still wins plenty of games and the following comes off the books post season.
Allen 19M
Shaq 21M
Harrington 10M
Plenty of free agents to spend the cap space on in 2010, I know its all far fetched but if we are re-building then why the heck not?
This would be pretty sweet, though probably a pipe dream. However, Al is probably on the move in NY.
Wow...
I at first thought you meant to say AI (as in Allen Iverson) was on the way to NY but I think you meant to say Al (Harrington)…but then I got to thinking about where AI (Iverson) might end up.
Could he go to NY as a free agent? Interesting.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jun 2, 2009 10:07 PM MDT up reply actions
Iverson ...
Hates passing, so no way he ends up in a D’Antoni system. Everything I’ve read seems to say that Iverson will either end up in Charlotte with Larry Brown, or retire.
And yeah, I meant Harrington earlier.
we would definitely miss LB in more ways than one
fortunately, this deal is so nutty I’m not too worried…
They also mentioned
sending Boston our 14th pick along with LB and Amare. Soooo stupid. Dumbest trade ever. I cannot imagine Kerr actually risking the ridicule if he was to AGAIN send away another pick. Plus, where the hell would we have any size? Would Dudley start? IDK, i still dont think its worth it for the Suns, even if we dont send the pick.
Does it have to incude LB?
I know I’ve said it before, but can LB start please?
Could we find a way to get J Rich involved instead? I just couldnt bear losing LB.
"Yeah I could have been king, but maybe I already am king. Hail to the king baby." Ash from Army of Darkness
One thing for sure
Amare rumors will be rampant leading up to the draft. Getting Rondo would be sweet. The Celts stole him from the Suns, giving him up for Amare, don’t see it.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
It's hard to tell with Gambo & Ash ...
I keep hearing that they have good sources and that a lot of what they leak ends up happening, but jeezus. The Rondo trade just makes absolutely no sense for the Celtics, and Gambo says a lot of dumb things in general. The other day, he kept talking about how great “that guy Gorat, like Borat with a G, from the Magic” was. He said it over and over again, and I didn’t hear anyone call in and say … “Pss … it’s GOR-TAT. Two tees.”
As Denis Leary once said..
“you should never do a drug that’s named after a part of your own ass”.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2009 12:10 PM MDT up reply actions
Shaq+Jason for Allen+Perk+Scal
that i would do yesterday…
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Makes no sense for the Celtics
Their biggest need is bench help, especially at the guard spots, and this gives up their starting backcourt. Not to mention that the owners don’t want to pay the luxury tax so I’m not sure if they’d be willing to give Amar’e the second max contract that he’s looking for.
Ranking the Ten Worst Moves of the 2008 Offseason @ www.soulhonky.com
Being a Celticsblog guy
I will say that this trade makes little to no sense for the Celtics if they don’t already have a guy like Andre Miller in their sights. But having watched the steps that Rondo has taken over the last three years on a game in and game out basis, let me assure you, he hasn’t reached his ceiling yet.
He is one of the best finishers in the game and when healthy can blow by anyone in the league that is guarding him. Also, if he stops his gambling, matador, swipe from behind defense and concentrates on keeping his man in front of him, he is the best defensive PG in the league.
He has been reported as having already been practicing on his outside shot to the tune of over a thousand a day already and if he starts hitting an 18 footer consistently he could have an overall shooting percentage of about 53-54%. Rondo had a FG% of 50.5% last year with only Parker having a higher guard FG%. Yes it was due primarily to his ability to drive but if he can get better on his outside shot, watch his FG% rise to crazy levels for a PG.
I doubt the Celtics trade away Rondo in any deal concerning a team that wouldn’t be sending back at least a passably decent PG. His chemistry with the starters and his confidence and ability to control three future HOFers is evidence that he will have no problem being an alpha dog elsewhere. In many ways, on the court, he already is.
Rondo is the future of the Celtics franchise.
Danny Ainge has said as much over the last year.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 3, 2009 11:04 PM MDT up reply actions
I thought for a minute I was on a Celtics board, because you guys drastically overvalue Rondo.
His game is improving, true.
However, his effort is spotty, he is not a good defender despite what you read, he takes plays off on both ends of the floor and his absolute inability to hit an outside shot allowed Orlando to defend us 5 on 4 in the semis.
He has a LONG way to go, primarily effort and basketball intelligence, to reach the level of Chris Paul.
I, too, would never expect Ainge to deal Rondo. But if he did, he would not be trading a superstar or anything close to it.
At this time.
lol @ coachbo
not even suns fans agree with you, fans of a team with a back-to-back MVP at PG
CoachBO is a well known rondo critic… but refuses to crtique any other player in the league
Just look at this deal alone…every play involved has flaws and weaknesses and inconsistencies…BO doesnt care about any other then rondos
by ohc on Jun 4, 2009 7:35 AM MDT up reply actions
And another thing Mr Bo
Chris paul is overrated…you think rondo is overrated, when in fact its the complete opposite.
Effort and intelligence? is this making sense to anyone else? rondo, at 23 is probably the smartest player on the celtics on and off the court (Outside of KG on the court)
that, and your constant holding chris paul in way to high regards, where was his consistency in this years playoffs?or his effort level when his team lost by 50, and chauncey billups dominated him for an entire series? he was busy getting nearly swept, while rondo willed his team to the 2nd round .
by ohc on Jun 4, 2009 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions
Eh, Paul on the Celtics and they win without KG
CP3 might be overrated but he’s better than Rondo. I’m a fan of Rondo but his game has gotten overvalued this year. The Celtics should look to sell high with him (especially since he’ll want a big payday soon) but a one year rental on Amar’e isn’t it.
Rondo’s improving but he’s becoming more ball dominant and I’m not sure he’s the main cog on a title team.
Ranking the Ten Worst Moves of the 2008 Offseason @ www.soulhonky.com
it's not clear that they do..
Chris was mediocre this post season. Whether that was because of injury, I don’t know.
What I do know is that, while Paul Pierce and Ray Allen are on the team, the Celtics will never play a system that will allow Chris Paul to maximize his effectiveness (kind of like Porter & Nash, right ?), because he’ll handle the ball much less.
And I’m sorry, but steal statistics aside, Chris Paul is not as good a defender as Rajon, because he doesn’t know how to play team defense yet, which is in fact the most important defense to know.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2009 11:08 AM MDT up reply actions
I don't think I ever said CP3 was a better defender
But Rondo is getting equally as overrated. Quick guards still give him trouble and he reaches in WAY too much. I also think that Rondo is going to be a guy who throws up a stinker every so often. It just seems like certain games, his head isn’t right and he forces things or makes some really bad decisions.
I personally just am not sold on him as the main cog of the offense which is what he’s becoming. He really dominated the ball at times in the post season, sometimes to the detriment of the team. Especially in the final Magic game, the Celtics were better off with the ball in Pierce’s hand to start the offense.
And my biggest fear is that Rondo’s people start talking max contract. It’s not outlandish. Let him get on the free market in 2010 and I’m sure that teams that miss out on the big names will run to Rondo with their free cap space. If teams like the Suns are actually considering taking on Luol Deng’s contract this season, I have to imagine that some teams would offer a similar deal next year.
But the issue with dealing Rondo is exemplified on the Blazers Edge board. They’ll give up Rudy, Outlaw, and Bayless but if you push for Batum (who would probably need to be involved to make the deal work) it’s a non-starter. On top of that, the Celtics would have to be willing to spend money on signing a free agent PG. The C’s would have to get a sweetheart deal AND be able to sign a PG to really make dealing Rondo worthwhile.
However, if the C’s could somehow deal Rondo for CP3, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Ranking the Ten Worst Moves of the 2008 Offseason @ www.soulhonky.com
Quick guards give everybody trouble
It seems like half the talk on this board has been about Nash’s inability to man defend opposing point guards. Of course, the converse is true and no-one, other than Terry Porter, has been able to stop Nash either.
The thing with Rondo, from my point of view, was to see how he stepped up in the playoffs, after being the 4th option on the Celtics. And there’s a big dropoff after the 3rd.
I agree, and I’ve said above that he doesn’t have a Nash or Paul like level of playmaking ability, although given the number of high assist games he’s shown in the post season, he’s shown he has the innate ability to be at the level below those two.
And it takes time, to get even to that level of consistency. Every player I’ve ever seen, with the sole exception of Jordan (who after his rookie year, never had a truly bad game while he was a Bull, only less good games.), has 2 or 3 really bad games per season. I’ve seen Stockton play some really godawful games, even during his peak.
Understand, though, my argument isn’t based on his regular season work, but on the level of play he showed this postseason, which is after all when the men come out to play. And I agree, he’s not ready, yet, to become the #1 option.
But his good games, this post season, while not at Nash vs Dallas level, were fantastic. However, I think you really had to pay attention to the details, when watching, to really see everything he was doing. And because he had at least 6 great games, thus showing innate ability, there’s no reason to suppose that level of play, or something close to it can’t be extended into next season and beyond, provided of course, he puts in the work.
Rondo’s flaws, to me, seem to be the flaws of immaturity: a tendency to gamble for steals on defense, poor shooting from the ft line and the 3 pt line, occasionally being out of position, some unwise decision making wrt passes and games where he’s not focused. They will all vanish with practice and experience.
But I like the guy’s grit, and what leadership I’ve seen from him. I love his rebounding and general defensive play, which in my opinion more than compensate for his deficiencies in passing and shooting.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions
It's not that hard to understand.
I’m not saying that, right now, Rajon is as good as Chris Paul, over the course of a season, or even a month, because that’s clearly not true. And he’s not a superstar yet, either. I agree on these points, as I’ve repeated, ad nauseam.
But what I am saying is that his best play, as exemplified by the multiple great games he’s had this postseason, shows that he might have the highest ceiling of all current point guards (maybe even better than Nash’s best over the last 5 years. Blasphemy, I know.), and given the practice he seems to be doing, as we speak, it will eventually allow him to be better than Chris Paul, possibly in as short as 2 seasons.
I don’t believe Rondo is streaky, but unskilled… It’s a subtle distinction, I know, but it does mean that he has the capacity to become more skilled, with work, and hence improve and raise his overall game, including his floor.
Even if he isn’t quite better, I think it’ll be damned close. And if Ainge has a point guard with that performance level in his team, it seems highly unlikely, especially given what he’s said over the last year, that he’d ever trade him, because such players are rarer than rocking-horse droppings.
ok? that’s not too hard to understand, right? But, this is not the Lakers board.. we occasionally deal in subtle arguments and nuance, and ya gotta bring some bottles to the party.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 4, 2009 11:00 AM MDT up reply actions
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