THANKS FOR NOTHING, GOLDEN STATE
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 10:41 AM MDT
137 comments
On June 25th, 2009, the Phoenix Suns were about to embark on a new era. Shaquille O’Neal had been jettisoned to Cleveland and Amare Stoudemire was nearly gone. The Suns and Golden State had a deal, or a gentleman’s agreement, or a firm handshake, or an agreement in principle with the Golden State Warriors.
The deal was this:
Suns trade Amare Stoudamire to Golden State. In return the Suns get:
Andris Biedrins,
Brandan Wright,
Marco Belinelli and or Kelena Azuibuke
and the No. 7 pick.
Deal done.
But something unexpected happened on draft night-the stars aligned or the basketball gods answered Don Nelson’s drunken prayers: Minnesota drafted two point guards at 5 and 6-Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flynn. This left another point guard, Stephen Curry, on the board. Pleasantly shocked and amazed, the Warriors grabbed him.
As the story goes, reports from the Suns war room describe an eruption of joyous glee. Steve Kerr and David Griffin bumped chests, and Alvin Gentry did a head spin reminiscent of one of the cast from "Breakin’ 2 Electric Boogaloo." The Suns had obtained a huge haul and the Steve Kerr moron meter had suddenly slanted from Utter Definite Moron to Mostly Competent GM.
Yet at that moment, the deal was dead.
Said Golden State GM Larry Riley:
"I was concerned at one time that we might not be able to get him, I thought he might go ahead of us but as the draft turned out, it came to our favor."
Translation: No way would we have included the #7 in the deal if we knew Curry was going to be there. Screw you Kerr, deal off.
Said Don “Bud Light” Nelson:
"He wasn't drafted for somebody else. He is not going to be traded. He was drafted because we think he is going to be a terrific player, and he's going to be right here. So he can unpack his bags, he can relax, go buy a house, because he ain't going any place."
Translation: This kid can ball, Amare who?
This begs the question, if Kerr and Co. knew that Curry wasn’t involved in the deal, would they still have drafted Earl Clark? Sure Clark is a great athlete and put up some solid numbers at Louisville, but did the Suns really want him at 14? Before the draft, Kerr and Co. talked of picking the “best player available.” Maybe Clark fits that description, however, it’s also possible Kerr wanted someone else, and when Curry was chosen at 7, he was able to choose Clark.
We can choose to look at this debacle a number of different ways. Did Kerr get screwed? Certainly. He had a deal with Riley. Should he have known better? Maybe. But this is less about Kerr and more about Riley and the Warriors.
No matter what happened behind closed doors, it’s pretty clear that Golden State went back on their word. If I’m Steve Kerr, or any GM for that matter, I’d have serious reservations about doing business with Riley and Co again.
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I find it pretty far fetched that the Warriors were picking for the Suns. Wouldn’t the Suns have called the Warriors and told them who to pick instead of being elated when the pick was Curry? It sounds more like the Suns were hoping that the #7 pick would eventually be included in the Amare deal and thus were elated to find out it was Curry.
Outside of Arizona media outlets (whose sources are within the Suns organization) & guys siting their info from Arizona media outlets (Bucher), most non-partisan sources say Curry was never involved in the initial talks.
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/15748318
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 11:22 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The Suns brass’ reaction to the pick makes it pretty clear that the 7th was theirs. It is fact that they were all very happy when the pick was made. Were they happy for an inner division foe because they are golfing buddies and their wives all get along?
Curry was never involved in the initial talks.
Of course he wasn’t, they didn’t know he’d be there. And who would have thought that Minnesota was going to pick two point guards consecutively? The 7th pick WAS agreed upon.
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 11:40 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think they were HOPEFUL that EVENTUALLY they would be able to pry the pick away from the Warriors.
Come on, are you going to believe this propaganda to make Kerr look good?? Both Katz & Bucher said before the draft that the #7 pick wasn’t involved.
and you still haven’t answered the question of “Why didn’t the Suns call the Warriors to make the pick if the deal was done beforehand?” look at the NBA.com footage of the draft review for the GSW’s – they are on TAPE.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 11:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
butcher twitted this
@memovalencia Curry is coming + Biedrins is the best defensive big man Nash’s ever had. Good P&Rer, too. Phx is doing the right thing.
@sportsguy33 phx source says curry was picked for him, but gs source denies it, so we stayed away from it. i believe the gs source is lying.
@dahking Phx does it w/out Curry if Randolph were in. Who blinks? Do Suns bail bec Nelly double-xed them? Ws aren’t in playoffs w/out Amare
@GSDOUBLEU Ws won’t give up Curry, I’m told. Have to do the deal w/out him if they still want to do it. Suns assuredly feel doublecrossed.
WARRIORS SHAFTED KERR! IF I WERE THE SUNS I WOULD QUIT ALL TALKS WITH THEM AND MAKE SURE THE REST OF THE LEAGUE IS AWARE OF WHAT THEIR FO DID.( CAPS ATTACK!)
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jun 28, 2009 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you not look at the timestamps? that was one day after the draft.
Ric Bucher & Nellie once almost went at it. see below for why.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 11:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
offtopic
but after reading lot of your comments on Posting and Toasting, GSoM, BrightSideofTheSun and Canis Hoopus -i wanted to ask …what’s your occupation?
30 Y 197 cm 115 kg 0 IQ
by Lat We N Trash on Jun 28, 2009 12:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
@memovalencia Curry is coming + Biedrins is the best defensive big man Nash’s ever had. Good P&Rer, too. Phx is doing the right thing.12:31 PM Jun 26th from web in reply to memovalencia
the one @sportsguy33 clearly shows that his source was PHX – in other words, Kerr trying to save face on a “turrible” Amare deal.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am no Kerr apologist by any means, and if you haven’t noticed around here, we don’t believe the “propoganda” as you call it. In fact up until recently we had the Steve Kerr “moron meter.”
"Why didn’t the Suns call the Warriors to make the pick if the deal was done beforehand?"
First off I don’t even understand what you are trying to say here. As I state in the post, we don’t know exactly how it all went down, what was said between the parties. If you have some audiotape of the conversations, you’re much more of an insider than I.
Your whole premise is that you can’t trust the AZ local media and you present some ESPN guys as your sources that the 7th wasn’t ours. But who’s closer to the situation? Who has more interest in the situation, some national guys or the Suns beat writers? And why would a guy like Paul Coro make up a lie and print it? That’s basically what you are asserting, Arizona media made up the part about the 7th pick.
There is no logic in Coro reporting falsehoods about the team that basically puts food on his table.
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 12:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
when the Lakers were picking for the Knicks, the Knicks supposedly called the Lakers and told them to take Douglas, and not McClinton.
what if the Warriors, not knowing who the Suns wanted, picked Jordan Hill over Curry?
Coro is reporting what the Suns are telling him, nothing more.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coro is reporting what the Suns are telling him, nothing more.
Right, and what better source of the information than the actual team involved in making the transaction? So you are saying that Suns misinformed Coro purposely. That makes zero sense at all.
And further, the reporters you are citing-where do they get their information? You have no clue whatsoever. What you seem to be asserting though is that Golden State was telling your sources that the 7th wasn’t included, while the Suns were telling their beat writer that the 7th was included, which is totally ludicrous, because even if it were true it would mean that neither team understood the terms of the agreement but felt it wise to tell the media about it.
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 12:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes zero sense at all.
why? the Suns want to save face. Kerr LIED and said there was no deal for Amare just like he LIED and said Porter would not be fired…
the real deal, AS for AB, BW & either MB or KA was a flat out (almost) Gasol-like steal for the Warriors. this makes Kerr look BAD. it looks better if Curry is involved – but he’s still an unknown rookie in a weak draft. still, fans love potential – add Curry, fans don’t rip the Suns so much. It’s clearly in Suns best interest to say Curry was involved.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't agree with that.
i think steve kerr has at least a little bit of common sense to not think the biedrins, wright and belinelli/azubuike for amaré trade was a good idea.
he may have made the shaq trade, but honestly, did anyone think he was going to have the year that he did this year? shaq has shown up to games. he has said, time and time again, that the team needs to be consistent, if they want to make the playoffs (and do well in them). shaq knows how to win. how could you blame kerr for bringing him here? he didn’t end up working out, and kerr admitted it. but you can’t fault him for trying something that he thought would work.
you may not agree with everything steve kerr says (and after saying terry porter’s job was not in jeopardy and wound up firing him three days later, why should you?), but i think he has enough basketball sense to not send the team that he is the GM for into a complete downward spiral. even if he’s not planning on being with the suns after his contract is up, he’ll still probably want to be either a GM or a TV analyst. who’s going to want to hire him if he consistently keeps lying?
i think the porter situation was spun in an unfortunate manner for steve kerr (whether he did that to himself or not), and the current situation isn’t over.
there’s no evidence to prove either point, but the way i see it is this: the golden state warriors were intent on giving the suns the 7th pick, but once they found out that curry fell to number 7 (which most people thought he would be picked up by number 6), they backed out on any verbal agreement they may have given the suns’ front office. i don’t trust them anymore.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 28, 2009 7:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaq worked out fine
The rest of the team failed. I refuse to put any blame on either Kerr for bringing him here or on Shaq for outplaying the overrated Amare Stoudemire.
This was the biggest opportunity Nash and Stat and company had, have, or ever will have to win a championship and they failed, not only miserably, but made about 1,001 excuses in the process.
I don’t here Kerr making excuses though. Hm.
I agree with everything you said above, just wanted to add that.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 28, 2009 7:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree.
i just meant that the team, with shaq, didn’t end up working. though, i doubt that the team, with (insert name here), would’ve worked anyway. unless that name you inserted was lebron james.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 2:19 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just using your post as a chance to air more of my views :)
Lebron or Kobe would win us several championships with Nash and Amare surrounding them. Then so would have Garnett and Nash. So close, so close.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 29, 2009 9:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw, the footage on the Warriors draft room was on TNT/NBAtv.i think there were a couple of them, one was “draft review:warriors”.
at best for Kerr, i think that after the last W’s offer, Kerr might have said something like “throw in the #7 pick and it’s a done deal” and the W’s said “we’ll get back to you.” so they were HOPEFUL that EVENTUALLY they would be able to pry the pick away from the Warriors.
it’s the only rational way to explain why the Suns weren’t on the phone with the Warriors telling them who to exactly pick.
still another stupid deal for Kerr especially if they extend Nash afterward.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
currently in “most recent”:
clip 4 on page 2 (around the Curry gets picked/3 minute mark?)
clip 5 on page 1
it’s only the snippets of what was shown during the actual draft, but i hope it’s enough to show you that Larry Riley’s not on the phone with Kerr figuring out who the pick is and it’s pretty clear the W’s didn’t pick Curry for the Suns.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t have to be on the phone, A list could of been provided before hand. For all you know Kerr could of gave them a list, which stated " If Curry is available get him, if not get Jordan hill, ect." So that theory of you have to be on the phone when selecting for another team is false.
No day but today
by RyanMarcus on Jun 28, 2009 8:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
For something of this magnitude
You’d be on the phone if you could… and you make sure to be there. There could have been a list of guys that the Suns were interested in, and maybe Curry was at the top of the available players, and that seeing the Warriors draft him made them believe that it was a done deal, but clearly it wasn’t completely finalized. Or maybe Nelson convinced Riley that it wasn’t such a good idea (and it isn’t) to give up Biedrins, Wright, Curry, and Kelenna. Or maybe it’s a done deal and Amare just has to agree to the terms of an extension, and the Warriors want to keep whatever leverage they have over Amare so that they can’t agree to the terms of an extension and have to back out of the deal. We’ll see on the 8th.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 2:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
one more thing, (in case this is not clear) the reaction shows that they did not know who the Warriors would pick & were screaming for joy when they found out.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 11:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look-Homer, you can provide as many clips and twitters you want, but the bottom line is that the Suns organization thought they had the Golden State’s 7th pick. For the management of the Suns to have that misconstrued or misunderstood is an impossibility. Kerr and Co. may not be the best management in the NBA, but they would have to be totally stupid to think they had a deal when the other side didn’t. You cannot argue that. The Suns had the 7th pick. Once that pick became Curry, Golden State management decided they were not giving up the 7th to the Suns. Riley was quoted as saying he didn’t think Curry would be there. And that’s basically the point, they didn’t think Curry would be there, so they were good making the deal. In addition, they had to figure that if Curry dropped that far, nothing was etched in stone and they could back out of the deal, which of course they did.
END OF STORY.
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 1:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you know that Bucher is getting his info from PHX sources how exactly?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 28, 2009 11:35 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
his twitter. he sited one of the Arizona papers as reporting that Curry was in the deal beforehand. when he was on ESPN on draft day, he did not state that the #7 pick & Kelenna were officially in the deal. he only reported AB, Marco & Wright.
if you don’t know Bucher hates the Warriors (Cohan, Nelson) – they hated each other in the early ’90s when Bucher was with one of the papers in the bay area covering the Warriors. he was the middle man in the Webber-Nelson fiasco telling each side “hey webber/nelson said this…”
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 11:41 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon
This is kinda starting to get ridiculous. Everyone keeps arguing about how “GS said this” and “Phoenix was told this”. Does anybody really know what the hell was said? There were beat writers and such who were told things (i.e Coro) but is any, and I mean ANY of it, actually true? Nobody knows what these General Managers are actually thinking or planning so it’s stupid to argue over
by Batmanthesunsfan on Jun 28, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't we All get Along
Of course we don’t know every little thing that was said because we weren’t there. But as I attempted to point out, there is some pretty convincing evidence that deal included the 7th pick.
And yes it may be stupid to argue, but that’s kind of why we are all here, for information about the team(s) we care about and for healthy debates. Plus, I have a responsibility to defend my position when I make an argument as I did.
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 1:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I respect that
And I agree we are all here for our teams information and the healthy debates like you said but that I personally have gotten tired of. I am siding with you and others in the fact that 7th pick was included but I’m not taking the blunt approach anymore. I’m just gonna wait and see how it all unfolds in due time. But I will engage in other healthy debates…just none involving what was “supposedly” said.
by Batmanthesunsfan on Jun 28, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amar'e is The Future
Look,
Instead of sounding so depressed that we didn’t trade Amar’e, the most exciting and entertaining Suns player to GS, you should be rejoicing.
The fact is that with Stephen Curry, the deal becomes sad but responsible. He is someone who will put fans in the stands, and has a lot of potential if he can add some size in the league. That being said, of the players in the trade. Only Andris Biedrins has clear evaluations of his potential in the NBA.
Amar’e is a rare talent in the NBA and he has shown that every off-season he is dedicated to getting better and improving parts of his game. With Earl Clark adding someone who can actually help rebound and play transition defense, Amar’e will be able to thrive. The front court of Clark, Stoudemire, Wallace OR Hill, Clark, Stoudemire are immediately better at running and playing D than we have been since Marion. Clark and Amar’e could be the PAIR OF THE FUTURE.
Remember it now. Clark and Stoudemire will be a staple front-court in this league if Steve Kerr can extend Amar’e’s contract. I would work on that or he won’t be in Phoenix much longer himself.
You should look at my sports news site. ifiredterryporter.com
"Check out progressive stats and the latest Suns news at ifiredterryporter.com
by ifiredterryporter.com on Jun 28, 2009 11:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
for real. Kerr makes no sense. If they’re rebuilding, why are they interested in extending Nash? If you’re extending Nash, you’re basically taking one last shot, so why trade Amare?
I’d try these 2 things:
Get Chandler. New Orleans is definitely trying to get under the luxury tax. I’d check to see if a Pavlovic (non-guaranteed), Robin Lopez, Dragic, (plus Tucker or Amundson (non-guaranteed) would do the trick.
I’d also check to see if JRich for Kirilenko works for the Jazz. They desperately need to cut money to resign Millsap & to avoid the luxury tax at the same time. This deal would save them at least $3 million (maybe more if they still end up paying tax or avoid paying tax – since those under get a piece of the luxury tax pie) & they could always move Brewer over to the SF spot to replace Kirilenko. This would provide them with some more 3 point shooting as well (JR 38.3%).
If they need to save more money, Pavlovic’s non-guaranteed contract can be used for whichever contract they want to rid themselves of. CJ Miles, Korver or Harpring’s (who surprisingly only played 693 minutes last year vs Miles’ 1623 & Korver’s 1874).
As long as 1 of these trades is possible, you could use Ben Wallace to acquire the other player.
If no one else does, I’d also advocate going after Ariza with the mid-level to hurt the Lakers.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only concern with Chandler is his toe.
If a craptacular(but improving) Thunder team wouldn’t take him when they also really needed a center, it must be pretty f-ed up. Then again, if the Suns med staff could help Shaq play well at his age, anything’s possible.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 28, 2009 2:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially with his hips.
he had that chronic hip flexor injury that kept recurring every so often.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 28, 2009 7:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry about his toe
It was fabricated to back out of the deal. It’s a toe, c’mon
Mmmmm ... Guinness
by JSun on Jun 28, 2009 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not just a toe when you’re expected to be able to run and jump for long period of time. He’s not playing miniature golf after all.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 29, 2009 5:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, on the other hand, I doubt Lopez is ready to start.
So for lack of a better option, I wouldn’t bitch too much if they got Chandler.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 29, 2009 5:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Got any links? Quotes? Cute anectdotes? I don't remember hearing that.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 29, 2009 1:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Real / Fabricated
either way, i believe the Suns training staff can fix him up, good as new.
by Chucko667 on Jun 29, 2009 6:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Problem is this
if Amare is not dealt to the GSW, Amare will be dealt sooner than later to another team for a worse deal…. So while I’m happy that Amare is still here (today), I know he won’t be here tomorrow, and that other deal is gonna be worse!
Whats up doc?
by RottPhiler on Jun 28, 2009 4:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why the Warriors won't include Curry just yet
They know that they can get a better deal. And they know can still include Curry if they want to. Or at least that’s what I’d do if I was Riley.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
GSW know that our only alternative to a trade with GSW is…… nothing! (or to keep amare, which Kerr has shown he doesn’t want to do)
So why would they offer more? of course they are going to low ball us.
by Chucko667 on Jun 29, 2009 6:14 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Warriors fan, if push comes to shove
I’m gonna bet on Curry being included in the deal because Riley is gonna want to make a splash, and will cave in just to make a deal… sigh. Whatever, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. I just hope Amare’s knees hold up at least until he becomes an expiring contract.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 8:50 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
A matter of honor
This illustrates the difference between a guy like Don Nelson and guys like Jerry Colangelo/Steve Kerr. When the Suns made the committment to trade the #7 pick to the Bulls, they had no idea that Andre Iguodala would still be on the boiard. Alas, Iggy was still there, but the Suns were honor bound to convey Luol Deng to the Bulls.
No such honor with Nellie.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jun 28, 2009 12:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Two things:
- Nellie probably wasn’t even involved in the trade, since he’s probably been knocking down mojitos in Maui, since the end of the regular season.
- Never believe anything Nellie says. He has a long history of doing stuff like this, and if he had any juice, Cuban would never have traded Nash.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 28, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nash was a free agent
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 28, 2009 12:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean't let Nash go..
Nash did ask Cubes to match the Phoenix offer, which was $10M/year. He declined to do so.
Now before you argue, Nash’s $12.25M salary this past season was due to a restructuring of Nash’s contract to help the Suns avoid the salary cap. He averaged just over $10M over the 4 years.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 28, 2009 12:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nellie's alcohol consumption probably began long before then.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 28, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record
one of my greatest moments of this past season having media credentials and being in the locker rooms, talking to players, etc was actually seeing Nellie with a Bud Light in his hand in the visitors locker room at USAC.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Jun 29, 2009 11:01 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Light beer?
There is no greater sin than light beer.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 29, 2009 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your doctor tells you to stop drinking, you switch to light beer
He’s an old fart who’s been drinking for far too long. Give him a break…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, no breaks from me.
I’ll give up drinking before I pick up a bottle of that pee-water.
Detras de ti, imbecil.
by Diosnomeama on Jun 29, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yah
even if nellie was involved in the talks and thats an IF, you have to know that he has a clear track record of lyin about what he wants to do or who he wants to pick. ill admit as a warrior fan you can not trust anythin out of his mouth around draft day. plus andris, marco, brandon and steph is way too much for amare imo
by gsw88 on Jun 30, 2009 6:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Colangelo and Kerr are morons
Honor or no honor for Nelly, you can’t help but think what if the Suns had drafted Iggy. Sure you may look like a flake, but hey, if you can get a really good player to fall to you at a position where you didn’t expect to, then its a whole new ballgame. Time to renegotiate the deal. Colangelo botched that trade, by giving up the #7 pick for a bum named Jackson Vroman, way to go!
by Aluminum Foyle on Jun 28, 2009 5:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nelly is learning from the mistakes from our bad GM's
by Aluminum Foyle on Jun 28, 2009 5:31 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth be told
I respect honor, even if it leaves you in a shit hole. You live to fight another day and you don’t fuck over the people you deal with on a regular basis.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 28, 2009 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still make the deal
Take Curry out and add 2 No. 1’s, one in 2010 and one in 2012 with Wright, Beans, Bellini/Azubukie
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Jun 28, 2009 12:41 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd go for that deal, too.
I’d also point out that with this draft, there is a surplus of decent/good point guards in the NBA. In fact I’m blown away at the recent Sergio Rodriguez trade to Sactown.
We should be able to get one in trade or off the free agency list.
In any case, I think we lucked out with Clark. He’s going to be a very good player, and it won’t take him more than a couple of seasons to get there, either.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 28, 2009 12:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clark
Clark will be at worst Boris Diaw and at best the perfect complement to Amare. Kerr has to have his head examined not to see it. Clark would do a lot of what Marion did, but is a good passer as well as 3 inches taller. Can you imagine a frontcourt of
SF Clark 6’10"
PF Amare 6’10"
C Chandler 7’1"
All three are quick. I would see a lot of blocked shots, and Chandler would be left open all the time, and Nash would get him 15 ppg. If Amare gets 26 and 8, and plays spotty defense, Who cares with Clark and Chandler? And with Hill, Amundsen, and Dudley in reserve, and Robin playingh 18 mpg as a perfect Chandler backup, why couldn’t we do well? Then sign a 4th guard that specialized in defense (Barnes is not here, get it?)
This is why I am mystified at what Kerr is considering.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jun 28, 2009 1:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
"At worst" Boris Diaw?
Boris is a damn fine player…i’d be happy if he turned into Boris.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 28, 2009 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget Boris... Clark is going to be a 6-10 Trix
Of course, the Matrix sequels weren’t quite as good as the original.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 28, 2009 4:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boris is a great player
Who doesn’t put out consistent effort. He’s a fatter, shorter Lamar Odom.
by ninjasocks on Jun 28, 2009 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you put him in a role he can thrive in he wins games for you.
People said the same thing about Odom(no effort, inconsistent), but when he found his niche, he exploded for LA.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 28, 2009 5:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
They both get up for like 6-8 games per year
And they both get paid about $5 million too much per year.
They have all-star potential and don’t put in nearly the effort necessary to achieve it.
by ninjasocks on Jun 28, 2009 6:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and their niche happens to be playing hard, focused, and intelligently
For 15-20 games a season.
Quite often, they don’t show up when they’re most needed.
If bumming around and wasting one’s talent is a niche/talent, Vince Carter needs one whole wing dedicated to him in the HOF.
by felixthm on Jun 29, 2009 12:09 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Sergio might have been decent on the Suns
He has a hard time creating, but he’s a competent backup and would thrive in an open run-and-gun system
by ninjasocks on Jun 28, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Warriors can’t trade their #1 pick until they send the one they owe to New Jersey.
I’d rather take a risk on Rubio, Love & Etan Thomas, Brian Cardinal like junk than take AB, BW, (MB or KA).
Though Kahn (foolishly) probably wouldn’t do it b/c it seems he’s in love with potential.
by homer simpson on Jun 28, 2009 12:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Homer, the Twolves NEED Jason Richardson
Rubio might want to play here, you know, take over for his idol some day? Why not find out. If Ricky is adamant aboout not playing in Minny, let’s jump in. We can offer better than NY.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jun 28, 2009 1:30 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Twolves NEED Jason Richardson
I don’t know too many teams that NEED an overpaid jumpshooting SG who isn’t particularly good at defense and is on the tail end of his career… but next year you might be able to move him as an expiring contract…
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 2:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
And if you think about it, the Warriors have way more younger and cheaper SG’s in surplus to offer Minny, if they ever wanted to.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 29, 2009 2:35 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
tail end of his career?
the guy’s what, 28? that’s usually when players are in their peak.
if you give him the chance to be the star on a team (unlike here in phoenix, where he was the 3rd [at best] scoring option), he’ll earn the $13 million he’s making. minnesota could use a player like that, especially given the fact that they don’t have anyone that can fit that bill, after trading away foye and miller (their only semi-consistent G/SF types).
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 3:12 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah really
I had to take two on that tail end of his career comment
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 29, 2009 3:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you give him the chance to be the star on a team (unlike here in phoenix, where he was the 3rd [at best] scoring option), he’ll earn the $13 million he’s making.
I’m assuming that you mean “If you give him 5-10 more shots/game, he’ll score more and look like deserves $13M/year.” He’s really just not that good (as you stated with “he’s a 3rd option at best here in Phoenix”). We have plenty of people over at GSoM who still think he’s awesome, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. He plays a position that is easily replaceable.
He may not be on the “Steve Nash” tail end of his career, but he’s never been the same since his surgery, and he’s at the very least at the tail end of his prime. I find it hard to believe that he’d ever “earn his $13M” without significantly improving. But… good luck finding a trade partner.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
that brings up a point
Potential – adj; possible, as opposed to actual
Rookies are very important because of potential, but you need Vets around to help tap into that potential. Great players learn from great players. There needs to be communication and development.
A good team cant be young players alone, or veterans alone. The vets and rooks being together is the bridge that connects yesterday to tomorrow.
by KnowGood on Jun 28, 2009 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is where i think portland may not live up to the hype.
unless they use the stockpile of young players they have and acquire a respected veteran. i’ll give kevin pritchard time, though. he’s too smart of a GM to mess up this team.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 28, 2009 7:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 28, 2009 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warriors can't trade future firsts. They have a protected pick to New Jersey.
And that’s asking for a LOT.
by ZaMzAm FiRe on Jun 28, 2009 4:59 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+111111
but I think it’d just be 1 number 1.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 28, 2009 5:25 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
My REAL beef is this
Marion was our dude and Kerr made the bold move of trading him for Shaq calling it the final shot. If the gamble didnt work, then thats it. It was the final chance.
Bull$h!t
Shaq and Porter didnt fit our team and it was VERY obvious. I think the obvious answer is fire Porter (as we did, and got a GREAT coach in Alvin) and get rid of Shaq (as we did) replacing him with another big but a more versatile and athletic big (which we probably wont do, but need to).
I just dont think this team is ready to be blown up yet. Its insanely messed up that our “final chance” was the blunder of Porter/Shaq. No way!!!!! Its not time to blow up. There’s still a little bit left. Minor tweaks here and there, nothing major (Amare/Nash/LB trade is major).
by KnowGood on Jun 28, 2009 12:51 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I would like to see a season of run and gun under Gentry with our current core. I think we may be good enough to make a 7 or 8 seed as the way things stand. Problem is Sarver doesn’t want to spend money on STAT and arguably, I don’t think he’s worth the max. So you either get rid of him now, in the middle of the year, or he walks and the team gets nothing. The same goes with Nash, although he may be more affordable than STAT.
by RD74 on Jun 28, 2009 1:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can be be a 4 or 5 with the core and Gentry
Keep Nash and Amare the bread & Butter. Pick n Roll thats hard to guard. And then explore our very versatile roster. We’re chock full o’ Gs and Fs that can shift to various positions. We have a very versatile roster, lets explore that. If we’re gonna run&gun, lets play a fast paced street ball type where people can play out of position at random and make it difficult to be guarded.
by KnowGood on Jun 28, 2009 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like that idea
But we are gonna have to inject defense into it.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 28, 2009 5:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like the idea as well.
and agree with the defense. otherwise we’re the golden state warriors from last year.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 28, 2009 7:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
We have to own up to the fact that Amare is gonna walk in 2010, as it would take a seriously deep playoff run to get him to stay, and even then nothing is guaranteed (look at Hedo this year). I actually agree that we’d be a better team with him next season, but we still wouldn’t be good enough to warrant throwing his current value away. To my mind, if we keep him maybe we’re a four seed, if we dump him for a Biedrins-like deal then we’re more like a 6 or 7 seed. Not enough of a difference to liquidate his value by keeping him till expiration.
To me its virtually given that (1) we won’t offer him a max extension in 2010 and (2) there will be at least one team willing to go in max or near-max for him in 2010. Given that, we pretty much have to trade him.
by IrrationalAgent on Jun 28, 2009 3:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 28, 2009 4:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't get nothing
If he walks. We get a $16M salary slot.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Jun 28, 2009 5:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing with that though is that there is little guarentee of signing a great player, and I think it’s better to find a team willing to trade, and that way you can at least get the players you want, without having to fight other teams over them and end up in a bidding war.
Of course the key is finding a team to work with and getting a player(s) you really do want, and not just getting something to get anything.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 28, 2009 7:53 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be appealing but....
other players might not want to come to us unless we had a roster built well enough for a championship. I think we keep Amar’e and try and get some decent players to accommodate him, nash, and hill (hopefully), then next year we could maybe get Bosh or someone else to fill that void that Stoudemire leaves
by Batmanthesunsfan on Jun 28, 2009 9:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with the first part...
that we need to have a roster that’s good enough to lure an elite player here, but keeping nash around just because he’s steve nash is not the move the team needs to make at the end of his contract. he’s getting older, and while he’s still playing well, it’s showing.
hill will be retiring soon, so we don’t need to worry about him, really. i love the guy. i really do. and i would love to keep him on the suns as long as we can. i just don’t think he’s another guy we go out and say, “well, we have grant hill! come to phoenix!”
i think we need to get some young players with a good upside, like chicago has with derrick rose. heck, if i were an NBA player and had the chance to build a team with derrick rose and maybe another young, promising player, i’d go for it. phoenix doesn’t have that player…yet. maybe earl clark will be that player. only time will tell.
all i know is, luring a big time name (player A) with another (older) big time name (player B) is a recipe for disaster. because once contract extension time comes around for player B, you kind of have to give it to him to keep the player A happy. after all, player B is the reason player A came here in the first place.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 2:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tied to tell you guys
we would do the deal but u have to leave out steph in the deal
Bay Area Stand up!!!
by W$P Fo Life on Jun 28, 2009 4:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
re:
i think amare will stay here, if we pay him max money. I think he will go just about anywhere that is somewhat big, if they will give him the money
by RGreyslak on Jun 28, 2009 7:08 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
As a Warrior Fan,
I am just wondering if you guys really think you guys can get a better deal than Biedrins, Azibuike, Belinelli, and Wright. How about if we agree to take back Goran Dragic and his silly contract.
Thing B
by warriorsscore110 on Jun 29, 2009 9:23 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we can get a better deal
Actually, I was pleasantly shocked these rumors came up. And no, I wouldn’t give you Dragic unless we got Curry, though I would give you Amare without Curry if we got all four other players. I, and maybe I alone, still believe Dragic can be awesome.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 29, 2009 9:26 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm on the same page as you.
i think dragic still has a legitimate chance at being a quality player.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 1:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on Dragic
But, who would i prefer on my team, Biedrins, Azibuike, Belinelli, and Wright.? or Amare?
My answer is Amare.
No trade.
by Chucko667 on Jun 29, 2009 6:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take the four. Better chances for defense and rebounds.
Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.
by SunDolphin on Jun 29, 2009 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but...
you take the four and then you wind up having depth problems.
trade amaré for biedrins, azubuike, belinelli and wright, and here’s what the lineup looks like:
PG: nash, dragic
SG: richardson, barbosa, ’buike, and belinelli
SF: hill, wright, clark and dudley (both maybe at PF, if we play small ball)
PF: clark, dudley, amundson
C: biedrins, lopez, amundson (if we play extremely small ball)
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 8:22 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’ve basically got Amundson starting at the 4? (clark and dudley are too short to start at the 4)
shudder
by Chucko667 on Jun 29, 2009 11:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
either that, or you slide lopez over to start at the four. or have clark start at the four…he’s 6’10". which is, if i’m not mistaken, taller than amundson. though, amundson plays more like a PF.
let’s just hope that scenario doesn’t arise.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 30, 2009 2:20 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
coro said that wright would be the starting 4 if the trade went down
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, i think this is going to be the most value we can get
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jun 29, 2009 10:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
We probably couldn’t get a better deal elsewhere. If I were the GM making a deal for Amare, I’d be very concerned about his surgically repaired knee, and paying a ton of $ for such a significant injury risk.
And no, I wouldn’t throw in Dragic unless I got a draft pick or some other worthy compensation. I think Dragic could be an NBA ready backup PG.
by RD74 on Jun 29, 2009 10:17 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not so sure about this
I still have faith Dragic. But I’m really tempted with Azibuike in the deal. If that was the deal though, those 4 for Amar’e, I’d say you still need to move J-rich after. I know everyone is saying this but It can’t be said enough. For the love of God, trade J-Rich!
by Batmanthesunsfan on Jun 29, 2009 10:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
not quite accurate
it was a Biedrins, Wright, (Belinelli, or Azibuike) deal if i remember correctly
by gsw88 on Jun 30, 2009 6:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Warrior fan here
The consensus with most Warrior fans who want A’mare would only give up Beans, Wright, and Azubuike or Belinelli. That’s 3 players, max. Most fans want to keep Azubuike, but I’d rather give him up than Belinelli.
Azubuike, a great person and solid player, is actually replicated by a much more expensive Maggette, but the fact is, we are stuck with Maggette and his god-awful contract. His passing is sub-par and frustrating, especially in transition. You hope he’s on the receiving end on the fast break.
Belinelli on the otherhand, while not as seasoned as Buike, is a superior passer and playmaker. He’s a more creative, but less efficient, finisher. He effort on man-to-man D is encouraging, while Azubuike’s is again, frustrating. Azubuike often goes under screens when he should go over and vice versa.
Belinelli went up against the likes of Kobe last season and didn’t get burned.
He’s also half the price of Azubuike. So, personally, I would MUCH rather give you guys Azubuike IF we were to only give you three players (not including Stephen Curry).
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 29, 2009 11:00 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I find this story of a “gentlemen’s agreement” pretty sketchy coming from the AZ media. First of all, trading 3 possibly 4 players plus our #7 draft pick for 1 year of Amare is WAY too steep a price. I hope our GM is a little smarter than making that kind of deal. Second, Phoenix is not in a strong position to make a deal. They are not going to get equal value for Amare because of his contract, injury concerns real or otherwise, etc. they would be lucky to get $.80 to $1.00 for Amare. Why would we offer more than AB, MB, BW? Third, if somehow the trade did go down, we would need some kind of contract extention for Amare beforehand. How could Phoenix do a sign and trade on draft day? Doesn’t seem very likely that anything was set in stone and a trade had happened or was eminent.
by warriOs on Jun 29, 2009 11:35 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Warriors fan perspective
As a W’s fan, I don’t want to see this trade go down if either Randolph or Curry is involved. We are already offering a more than fair deal. If one of those guys is included in the deal, then the Suns are the clear winner.
The reason the Suns are trying to trade Amar’e is because they don’t wish to pay him a max deal at, or exceeding $20 mil/yr. Suns ownership is trying to conserve money/dump salaries because they are having a tough time financially. It seems apparent they don’t think he is worth the committment. He has a history of injuries, isn’t a great rebounder, and doesn’t play defense. He’s also had a say in getting 2 coaches fired. He is not LeBron, DWade, Kobe, or even CP3. If they W’s go through with this trade they are going to have to sign Amar’e to an extension that will pay him $95 mil over 5 yrs. That is a huge risk the W’s are taking. There aren’t that many teams out there right now that are willing to offer that type of money. Also, Amar’e has a say in which teams the Suns deal with. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to have Amar’e on the Warriors, but at what price?
Suns fans want Andris Biedrens, Brandan Wright, Curry, and Bellinelli or Azubuike.
I would hate to see Dre go, but you have to give up value for a player of Stoudemires’s pedigree. I’ve read some comments dismissing him as a scrub or simply a rebounder. Biedrens is a very good player, and most likely a future all-star. The guy is only 23 yrs old and has a lot of upside. He’s already a great rebounder and shot blocker. He has a tendancy to get pushed around on the block by bigger players. But, if he puts on some weight and get paired with a bulkier PF he will be even more effective. He’s a pretty bad FT shooter, but has showed some improvement this past season. I guess the biggest question is his offensive game. He actually came back from the summer break last season with some new offensive moves in his bag, and I think he will continue to improve in that regard. If you look a the first few months of last season he was averaging close to 15 pts and 12 rebounds. And that is with very few plays being run for him. He will be a 15/12 player somday. I truly believe that, possibly even 17/12.
Brandan Wright is still very young and I would love to keep him on the W’s. If you know anything about Nelli, it’s that he is very hard on rookies and young players. It’s very difficult for them to get playing time. W’s fans were very frustrated with Nellie and his insistence on playing veterans. Wright would have great games and would be a game changer one night, and the next game wouldn’t be able to get off the bench. If he ever plays for the right coach, he has a lot of potential to be a very good player. He is extremely long, is a good shot blocker and is very good on the break. This isn’t some scrub player the W’s are trying to unload because he’s a bust. I would prefere to keep Randolph over him, but they are both quality young guys.
Belinelli and Azubuik are OK players. They aren’t going to be all-stars, but they are solid. They’re good shooters and would be valued bench players. Obviously they’re not deal breakers or sexy prospects.
But, apparently this deal comes down to Curry. I think the Suns/Warriors had an understanding that the deal would include the seventh pick. I don’t think it was ever a done deal. The W’s still would have to sign Amar’e to an extension, so there was a lot of work to deal. Nellie has been in love with Curry all season. He would even watch all of his college games on TV. He reminds him of a young Steve Nash, which make sense because neither plays defense. I think the Suns proably gave the W’s a list of players they preferred with the 7 pick. I don’t thin the W’s ever said to the Suns that if Curry was available they deal was off. They are looking out for their own best interests, no the Suns. Just like any other team. They probably never thought Curry would be available, so why rock the boat. When he was available, the deal no longer made sense. If you value Curry that much, why trade him?
And to tell you the truth I’m fine with no deal being made. Why make a bad deal like that? The W’s would have to give up a lot for the ability to spend $95 mil on an incomplete player. I think Suns fans are spoiled. You have an owner is financial troulble and doesn’t want to resign your franchise player. Like it or not, they will have to rebuild or retool. But, you guys are so used to winning, you don’t want to experience any tough times. You want to be a playoff team and remain a contender while your team rebuilds. That is not how it works in the NBA. Unless you are the Lakers, and a team gives you Gasol for nothing. Look at the Kings as an example. You guys had a great run, but you might have to take a step back before you start contending for championships. Your windown has closed and you missed your opportunity thanks to Kerr when he traded away Marion. Accept the fact you aren’t going to be that good for a couple of season, and stop blaming and whining about the Warriors for looking out for their best interest.
by Pippen on Jun 29, 2009 11:44 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
True
Cold hard truth. As you say we suns fans are a bit spoiled by success. Success that has been derailed by aging players – and the well documented exploits of Kerr and the Banker. I say we don’t make the trade to the Warriors for their scraps. We take our lumps and let Amaré walk if he must and press on. Brighter days will be ahead. Better get your arse in gear Kerr because this team needs to be rebuilt.
Just as likely that Kerr will be gone himself within 2 years though.
by eagleheart on Jun 29, 2009 4:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
pippen ur 100 percent correct here
…nuff said
by gsw88 on Jun 30, 2009 7:01 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not the greatest fan of Amare and have felt that the suns should have traded him last year…..but if Curry isn’t part of a deal then Randolf has to be. For all of Amare’s warts he is still a big time player. Bosch, Boozer or whoever are not at his level, he’s not Kobe or LBJ but he is better than the other guys. If you don’t want to give up these two then it’s no deal to me. Curry and Randolf have done zip in the NBA so far.
The story as I understood it was that Amare has/would have to agree to an extension.
The suns don’t have money problems, I think Kerr likes the idea of being below the cap so they can catch some of the distress sales that are happening now in the NBA.
If your guys did back down on the deal ’cause they are looking out for their best interest you deserve to suck.
As for your idea that ’cause you and several other losers cannot move smoothly through a transition phase and not linger on the bottom of the league for years is a condemnation of your franchise.
Like I say Amare has warts but you should be so lucky
by overthere on Jun 29, 2009 12:03 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Um, no, you have it wrong
The Warriors franchise might suck but the Warrior fanbase does not. We would cause mass havoc if Randolph was included in any trade. A’mare is great, but his health, attitude, and contract situation are huge factors in this decision. If we don’t get reassurances on those issues, there is absolutely no reason to bet the farm on him.
The way I see it, the Suns either trade A’mare for something or deal with him being disgruntled and lose him for nothing.
It sounds like most Suns fans appreciate the value of Beans, Wright, and a combination of Azubuike or Belinelli.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 29, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said that the understanding here was that the issues with Amare would have to be dealt with.
If they couldn’t be worked out OK no deal but to pull the plug before these things were checked out is low. You could have pulled a Chandler and said he was damaged goods or wouldn’t extend, it would look like you where trying to uphold your part.
As I said Kerr thinks he can get in on the upcoming fire sales if he has cap space so losing Amare might not be a big deal to him.
Did not mean the fans when I said suck.
Right Randolph and others for Kobe or LBJ……Amare had superstar written all over him too
by overthere on Jun 29, 2009 12:43 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless we are trading for Kobe or LeBron
Randolph will not be included. He has superstar written all over him and no way will he be part of any trade with Phoenix.
by Dungeness Crab Dribble on Jun 29, 2009 12:28 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, superstar written all over him using Kobe's lipstick.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jun 29, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
you literally think that?
you think randolph is untouchable unless it’s a trade for the finals MVP or the league MVP from last year?
i respect W’s fans. the run that the “we believe” team had restored my faith in the NBA. i love the fact that the atmosphere at the oracle arena is more similar to a college game atmosphere. but honestly, you need to get off your high horse.
just because we’re wanting more value for amaré doesn’t mean you need to get offended and start getting defensive every time we say, “if curry isn’t involved, randolph needs to be”. amaré is a HUGE offensive threat. he doesn’t have stellar D, but since when have the warriors cared about that? you played less defense than the suns last year, and that’s hard to do. you may say he’s a health risk. when was the last time you heard of stoudemire missing any games due to his knee? i don’t think you really ever have, except for that one season he went down. the eye injury was a fluke (and freak) accident. how much do you want to bet that he’ll come back next year completely healed, and not have any future problems with it? his contract situation is literally the only legitimate concern you should have.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 1:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Randolph may or may not be a superstar
But at this point in his young career, he shouldn’t be traded for potential damaged goods in that of an A’mare. He just turned 20, guys. The guys attitude and drive to be a great player is encouraging to Warrior fans.
Seriously, I think 99% of Warrior fans would be fine with this deal not happening if the terms are not fair or reasonable. If you think that’s stupid, then so be it.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 29, 2009 2:24 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying it should be an unfair trade.
i’m actually all for fair trade. but i just think that we should get more in return for amaré, a player who, for his career, is averaging 21.1 points, 8.9 rebounds, 1.4 assists, while shooting at a 54.1% clip from the field and a 75.5% average from the free throw line. which is improving (as with the assists).
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 3:18 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The tough part is...
Kerr & co. will be coming to the table as not only the pursuer of the trade, but also in a time crunch. If they don’t make a move by Feb, they risk having STAT walk for nothing and having to pick the pieces up in free agency. If they don’t want to hope and pray on free agency (and they shouldn’t, unless they’ve got some scoop that they’ll have a legitimate shot at LeBron), they do not have a lot of leverage to force a “fair trade” and will eventually have to accept whatever another team offers.
Without that leverage, the Warriors should be doing backflips that they’re even in discussions to get STAT with the best player they’re offering is a good but not great big man.
As a Warriors fan, I’m going to be unhappy if the terms are fair and reasonable. We should be getting a steal because Kerr isn’t going to get any better offers and signing free agents better than Andris Biedrins (especially at his contract) will be very, very difficult.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 29, 2009 3:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about a trade having to be fair.
But to trade Amare to a division rival for bits and pieces makes no sense either, if you can’t give up Curry or Randolph we should just let it play out. Can’t see him heading your way if he leaves.
If Amare walks even if there are no great free agents you gotta believe there will be salary dumps still happening. Also after Porter left Amare played 3 games and the suns still finished ahead of GSW.
by overthere on Jun 29, 2009 4:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just don't think the suns should trade with the W's at all.
after this fiasco (and blog war, which is actually pretty entertaining, to be honest), i doubt the suns actually do business with golden state. whether or not we get a better offer, i still think we shouldn’t just go for the first offer that a team proposes while everyone else says, “yeah, you’re not going to get a better offer than that”. how do you know that?
if we don’t make a deal, amaré is going to come back and play well. he’ll up his value, and people will be having an easier time saying, “yeah, okay, we can throw a few more players their way”. that, and kerr and co. will have more leverage on other teams.
by iamtrevorpaxton on Jun 29, 2009 6:00 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If (as the W’s fans suggest) GSW isn’t going to offer fair value considering injury concerns etc.. then Keep amare, let him prove himself coming back off injury, in a contract year, and show what value he is.
Then do a sign and trade…. For value.
by Chucko667 on Jun 29, 2009 6:38 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's a free agent
They’ll have even less leverage. The Suns are not getting fair value for Amare, because of his contract situation, general displeasure, and his injury history. The sooner Kerr accepts this, the sooner he can extract as much value as possible.
Biedrins, Belinelli, and Wright is on the low end, Biedrins, Belinelli, Curry, and Wright is on the high end. We’ll see how it pans out. At this point, I’d be very surprised if Amare isn’t in a Warriors uniform and Biedrins isn’t in a Suns uniform in the fall. The peripherals I’m not so sure of.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 8:56 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still think we shouldn’t just go for the first offer that a team proposes while everyone else says, "yeah, you’re not going to get a better offer than that". how do you know that?
I agree, don’t just take the first offer. If you can find a better one, great. But you can’t look forever. The closer it get to the trade deadline, the less leverage you’ll have, and the less people are going to offer. At some point, Kerr will have to pull the trigger. You guys may get lucky and be able to swing something with Houston now that Yao’s out indefinitely, or somebody else when one of their stars goes down. We’ll see.
However, you’re dead wrong on the last bit:
amaré is going to come back and play well. he’ll up his value, and people will be having an easier time saying, "yeah, okay, we can throw a few more players their way". that, and kerr and co. will have more leverage on other teams.
If Amare plays well, he’ll opt out and you’ll have to hope that somebody will need a S&T to make the trade. But that won’t happen because teams have been clearing cap space for this coming offseason for 3 years now. Maybe you could get Rashard Lewis (and his bloated contract) or something. The only way Kerr’s leverage situation improves is if Amare plays really well in the first half and somebody needs him to make a championship run (like Orlando). If I was Kerr, I’d wait and hope for something like that rather than take the Warriors’ lowball offer. And if I were the Warriors, I’d keep the lowball offer on the table until I heard of any other offers on the table.
You have been DFiBrillated.
by Dubs fan in Boston on Jun 30, 2009 9:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
randolph
no chance he is included in this deal. no matter what is said about us warrior fans likin him more than you may he is still seen as the player with clearly the most potential on our roster. he improved towards the end of the year and has shown flashes of brilliance. clearly someone proven may do more on the court rite now, havin said that we truly think he will develop into a special special player and want to see him blossom in a warrior uniform. anthony randolph is a warrior now and will remain one for a years to come.
by gsw88 on Jun 30, 2009 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by FLAxwless on Jun 29, 2009 12:15 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
LOL
+2
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 29, 2009 12:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doc
The evaluations of the players you listed at 10.00 reminds me of the the guy I bought a 71 Olds off of …….good transportation.
All I’ve heard of Nelli is that between us we could do some serious damage to the upcoming wine harvest in the area I live.
‘Cept he’s running your team.
by overthere on Jun 29, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you’re welcome for my time to write all of that. I wasn’t trying to sell you guys anything, actually. I’m just telling you what I thought of between Azubuike and Belinelli. As with everything, take it with a grain of salt.
Confident Marco Belinelli supporter
by Doctor Kajita on Jun 29, 2009 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
W's/Suns Fan:
Suns need to make the best deal they can, I lived in both states and followed both teams for years: however I go back to 74 with the W’s.
But I always watch the Suns in the playoff and root for them, it was a heck of a run the last several years but that team is now almost gone:
It will take 2 or three years to get deep in the playoff’s again most likely: and if Amare is traded PX has to land a big FA next year.
Nash is getting up in years and he needs someone under him he can help develop:
As a W’s fan would love to get Amare, hell we should of drafted him instead of Dunlvy, we feel he actually belongs to the W’s anyway =)
I’m nervous about Kerr, I’m thinking OMG what’s this man doing, I never understood the SQ trade, and the coaching change to TP, I loved the up and down style the Suns had, it was almost like watching the W’s.
Good luck Suns in whatever happens:
by ForestGrump on Jun 29, 2009 2:06 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
fair value
how can suns fans honestly expect fair value from a player with the contract issue and injury history as amare. not to mention he wants out so they have pressure to deal him from both ends. if the suns find a deal that tops what the warriors are offerin more power to them. i just dont see it happenin
by gsw88 on Jun 30, 2009 7:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
i have to agree
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Phoenix Stan on Jul 1, 2009 7:16 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
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