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Amare responds to trade rumors


Amare Stoudemire was on Sports 620 KTAR this afternoon addressing all the trade rumors.

I bag on Amare often for his defense and I don't believe he's worth a max extension, but I like the way he handles these situations. He says the right things about staying in Phoenix and about the fans but at the same time he's clearly and understandably frustrated with the trade talks.

Amare still puts his chances of staying with the Phoenix Suns at 50/50. He says he's focused on his recovery and is letting his agent deal with the rest of it. It doesn't sound as if there's been any extension discussions so far.


 

 

Star-divide

ESPN's Ric Bucher was also on KTAR today talking about the Finals and you guessed it, Amare trade rumors.


 

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Trade him

He sporting 2 bad knees and eyes. Trade him to the clips with our 14th pick for Davis and thier 1st pick. Don’t resign Nash, which saves the Suns 6 million. They would almost be under the cap with a point guard as good as Nash but defends. We would have a new Amare in Griffin. After Shaq leaves we have 20 million to get Bosh to go with Griffin. Sounds a lot like Boston….

by fandiego on Jun 6, 2009 10:00 AM MST reply actions  

And where will you find that point guard as good as Nash??

I’d love to know who this alleged player is. Please tell me.

Do you honestly think Chris Paul is going to sign with us? or Brandon Roy, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups or perhaps Rajon Rondo ?? Maybe you think Calderon is better ?? Although his team’s 33 and 49 record, in the East, would suggest otherwise.

Unless you’re gonna sign one of those players (and I’m not sure any of them, with the exception of Paul and maybe Roy, could be considered consistently better, overall. Maybe Rondo, next season), then you’re going to have a point guard who is significantly worse.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 6, 2009 3:12 PM MST up reply actions  

Baron Davis

Bad back like Nash but defends.

by fandiego on Jun 7, 2009 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

You are joking, right ??

Davis is a shoot first, poor man’s Gilbert Arenas. 40% shooting, and 32% on 3pt, 69.7% ft.

For a point guard, the guy can barely pass. It’s true he plays man defense a little better than Nash, but not by enough to overcome his deficiencies on team defense.

The occasional great game, notwithstanding, Davis isn’t remotely close to being as good as Nash. The most flattering thing you can say about Davis is that his best game is better than Nash’s average game, but not by much. He’s mini-Kobe, ie. what Kobe would be, if you shrank him.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 7, 2009 3:56 PM MST up reply actions  

Oh, and let's not forget Davis' tendency for injury, either

Since he joined the league in 99, his games/season have been:
82, 82, 82, 60, 67, 46, 54, 63, 82, 65.

That is, in 10 full seasons, he has only managed to play close to a full season in 4 of them.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 7, 2009 4:12 PM MST up reply actions  

Career stats since you are quoting them

Ponts: Nash 14.4 Davis 16.9, Assists: Nash 8.0 Davis 7.3, FG: Nash .487 Davis .409, 3PT: Nash .432 Davis .323, Steals: Nash .79 Davis 1.92, Blocks: Nash .08 Davis.42, Turnovers: Nash 2.71 Davis 2.79. If Davis were on a 7 seconds or less team, his stats would be equal to Nash’s where he lags. In all other areas he is as good or better then Nash. Don’t drink the Koolaid. He has carried lousy teams since Charlotte. Maybe if he didn’t have to work so hard his back wouldn’t have kept him out so many games. Maybe the Suns trainers have been keeping Nash’s in the game with his bad back. Since they have fixed a number of players (Grant, Shaq, McByeBye…).

by fandiego on Jun 8, 2009 12:33 PM MST up reply actions  

I watch Baron Davis on a regular basis..

living in the Bay Area and watching the Warriors.

I like the guy, a lot, but trust me, he’s not that good. I wish he were, because he’s so maddeningly and frustratingly inconsistent. One game he’s brilliant, and then the next two he’s a bum. Occasionally, he’ll string a bunch of good games together, and then he’s good enough to win a player of the week award.

But, it’s easy to mistake those good games, for his overall contribution. He’s one of these guys, that have historically existed throughout the history of the NBA who gets good stats on bad teams.

I quoted his shooting percentages, as opposed to any other stats, because they’re a true indication of ability and tendencies. 41% shooting is lamentably poor, and worse than Iverson. Davis is a gunner, who takes bad shots. A lot of bad shots.

The problem with box scores, of course, is that they don’t capture all of a layer’s contribution. For example, Nash draws about 2 offensive charges/game, a statistic which gets counted as a foul and a turnover on the offensive player, but is not credited as a steal for the defensive player. You add those 2 charges as steals, and box score aficionados would start talking about Nash as a great defensive guard.

Similarly, there’s no consideration, in the steal statistic, for the defender’s tendency to gamble on defense, to get the steal, often leaving his man wide open. For example, like Iverson.

And there’s a good reason, that as a starter Baron’s been traded twice. The Warriors, and the Hornets both declined to build their teams around him. And it’s not because he’s brilliant.

Nash, otoh, was traded once by Phoenix, because he was ready to start, and then by Dallas because they thought he was too old, asking for too much money, and losing it. That was 5 years, and 2 MVPs ago.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 8, 2009 4:54 PM MST up reply actions  

That should be used to watch Baron Davis on a regular basis.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 8, 2009 5:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Great point

about offensive fouls not showing up on the box score. I think 2 per game is a bit…optimistic but I don’t know of any stats out there to back that up.

Also, steals as you point out isn’t always a great stat either b/c of the tendency to gamble. Get 1 steal. Give up two layups b/c of blown steal attempts. The Spurs have long been way down in the league in turnovers created and they also don’t foul as much as other teams b/c they don’t gamble. Not flashy but in the long run effective.

As for Nash’s defense though, there other things you are leaving out. Not fighting through screens and staying on the hip of his man puts more pressure on the bigs who pick up more fouls or have to help more and are out of position. His lack of quickness from a stop (something he’s admitted to) prevents him from helping and recovering fast. Likewise his like of length and hops make him a much less effective help defender.

Those are the realities of Nash and simply part of the overall picture.

The bigger problem knowing that is putting him with other players that can compensate on the defensive end. This is where the Suns have failed Nash.

by Seth Pollack on Jun 9, 2009 8:47 AM MST up reply actions  

I was just making a point about how misleading box scores can be.

The thing about Nash is that he’s a bad individual defender, but surprisingly effective help defender.

In previous years (and you can look it up on 82games) team defensive +/- always got a little worse when Nash was off the floor. Wasn’t a huge amount, and he shouldn’t be mistaken for the second coming of Gary Payton, but it’s enough to suggest that Nash made a positive defensive contribution.

It’s funny, but as you pointed out, Nash’s defensive weakness is actually the same as his offensive weakness, which is that he’s very slow going from a full stop to motion. It’s one of the reasons why he was performing poorly, offensively, during the 1st half of the season.

Keep Nash in motion, though, and he’s able to use his abilities to anticipate and improvise, which is why btw, he’s able to put himself in position to take so many charges (btw, I got that number just from watching Suns games I can catch on tv. It seems like he took 2 or 3 charges in those games, and missed about another 2 or 3).

And your last point is the most important of all. It’s a team game, and all the pieces have to fit and work together, and that contribution almost never gets captured correctly. But pros understand how important that is, and it’s why our PG won 2 MVPs.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 9, 2009 10:16 AM MST up reply actions  

team defense +/-

also has to take into account who was backing him up and in general how poor the Suns bench defense has been up until the last few months of last season.

Nash does have great anticipation and the toughness to get in position to draw those charges. He makes the best use of what he has. Clearly.

But do you role the dice and give him $14m for another two years hoping that he can continue at this level which as we’ve discussed, is great but flawed.

I also still think (not to be too negative) that those two great Suns years of 04-06 were a down period overall in the NBA. It was pre LeBron / Chris Paul greatness and Kobe was stuck with total crap for teammates. Duncan only played in 66 games that year too.

Nash’s greatness has to be taken into context.

One thing the playoffs have proven again and again (and again this year) is that teams have to be well rounded to win it all. The Cavs didn’t have the balance. The Suns didn’t back then either and Nash as great as he was offensively didn’t impact the game on both ends like LeBron, Kobe, Paul and Duncan.

by Seth Pollack on Jun 9, 2009 10:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Every great player has flaws..

And as you said before, you have to take that into account, and judge the player as a total package. But you have to take a nuanced view of that player.

Statistically, Nash’s greatness comes from the fact that he has run the leagues most efficient offense, nine years in a row. Which is Stockton/Rodman/Wilt like statistical dominance.

Yeah, I get the point regarding that particular statistical measure, not being a measure of individual performance, but it can’t be ignored and in fact speaks volumes as to the essence of Nash’s game, his unselfishness, and why of all the players to pass through the NBA, he belongs in a unique category. In my opinion, at his peak, Nash played that team-oriented game better than anybody not named Bill Russell.

Do I think he’s worth $14M a year?. Probably not, but maybe, simply because he’s one of those players people pay to watch, because he’s popular (#13 in jersey sales), perhaps because the franchise might want to repay him for being so underpriced the last 5 years, and because he’s still the most important player on this team.

But I certainly think he’s worth $10M/per, over the next two years, even if he is getting old.

As to your point about a flawed game, every player has flaws in his game. Duncan is a bad free throw shooter, Kobe is selfish, has poor shot selection and doesn’t play team defense, Chris Paul’s decision making outside of his go-to moves (i.e his lob passes to Chandler & West) is poor and his team defense is also poor.. I could go on.. You get what you get, and hopefully you can compensate for the flaws.

And your point about balance is also well taken. It’s why I liked and still like the Shaq trade, because for the first time in years we had a front line that could compete. It’s only because Terry Porter screwed up so badly, that this team failed to make the playoffs, and more importantly failed to put together significant runs during the season.

As for championships, you don’t just need balance, you need luck and stability. We should have won two titles: 05-06 and 06-07. The first title we didn’t win because of injuries (Even without Amare, a healthy Suns that year, would have kicked Dallas ass), and playing too many games in the 1st two rounds. The second, well.. I don’t need to go on about that.

I can’t remember a single player as snakebitten as Nash when it comes to having his championship hopes snuffed by outrageous bad luck, or in having to deal with roster turnover. I know, you’re going to say something like great players overcome these setbacks, to win, but some setbacks are just too big.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 9, 2009 11:51 AM MST up reply actions  

re: team defense

My only point was to illustrate that Nash’s defense, as measured by defensive +/-, historically hasn’t been that bad, despite his inability to defend quicker guards on a man basis, and in fact has been a positive.

If Nash was as bad as some people on this board would have you believe, then any replacement would be an upgrade. That was clearly not the case.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jun 9, 2009 12:34 PM MST up reply actions  

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