Suns salary situation still not "dumped": $4m to $8m in the tax hole

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 10, 2009 8:49 PM MDT in Commentary Comment 38 comments

The Phoenix offseason has mostly been described as an exercise in cost cutting. No surprise there when your biggest move moves your biggest player/salary/personality/tweeter/mistake.

But now that things seem to be settling out, a quick updating of the numbers shows that the Suns roster as it appears today (with some minor speculation that Frye and Hill sign deals as reported) stands at $78 million dollars. That's million with an "M" and 78 as in 70 + 8 for those Base 10 fans out there.

With the all-important luxury tax line sitting just a few arena-priced hot dogs south of $70m, that means the Suns currently are $8m into the luxury tax hole. An increase of $3m from last season. All that from a team reportedly in salary dump mode.

Get it? The cheap-ass Suns and their poverty-stricken banker/owner are looking at a tax INCREASE of $3m from last season. And yes, that assumes Sasha Pavlovic gets waived but doesn't assume that Ben Wallace takes a discounted buyout. So, there's still hope for those that want to insist that the team from Phoenix is pinching pennies like those fools in Memphis or any of the other 23 non-tax paying NBA franchises.

For fun, I pulled out the pencil (you don't want to know were it was) and did some quick math and discovered the net savings from dumping Shaq was $3.6m assuming Hill gets the same deal and the Suns don't pick up Frye.

I guess so far you can say that the Suns traded Shaq for Channing Frye and $3.6m in savings but that wouldn't really be fair since we all assume that Ben Wallace will go bye-bye and leave in his wake a buy-out savings of some number of millions of dollars. My guess for some reason is that he takes $10m to go away, saving the Suns an additional $4m.

But who really knows. Maybe he takes $7m or maybe he decides he wants to play for this mighty Western powerhouse and he keeps his entire $14m so that he can retire in full Ben Wallace style (whatever that means).

If Wallace does take a $10m buyout then the Suns payroll drops back to around $74m which was pretty much where it was last season but it is close to an $8m savings from where it would have been if Shaq had stayed. Did you follow that? If so, congratulations and go directly to the CPA licensing office to collect your professional certification from the AICPA.

As for next season, if Amare doesn't flee or otherwise get run out of town, plus Nash and Hill and all those other guys on the payroll, the Suns are looking at 11 players under contract for ~$63m. That is right around where the luxury tax line is projected to drop to. But there's a bevy of player and team options there, so let's not worry too much about that right now. Next summer is a long way off -- 10 or 12 months, to be precise.

For the time being, the point is that this Suns roster -- minus Shaq but with a returning Hill and the addition of Clark and Frye and Wallace and Sasha's $1.5m guaranteed -- is sitting between $4m and $8m over the tax line. I think it is fair to say that we won't be seeing any more free agent signings in Phoenix this summer.

After the jump is the full roster and salaries for the next three seasons with some basic assumptions included...

Has anyone else noticed that you have to be both an accountant, lawyer, basketball scout, labor relations expert and shrink to really understand a professional basketball team?

PLAYER	09/10	10/11	11/12	Notes

Amare Stoudemire	$16,378,325	$17,686,100		Player option for 10/11
Jason Richardson	$13,333,332	$14,444,443
Steve Nash	$13,125,000	$10,000,000	$10,000,000
Leandro Barbosa	$6,600,000	$7,100,000	$7,600,000	Player option for 11/12
Goran Dragic	$1,836,000	$1,972,000	$2,108,000	Team option for 11/12
Robin Lopez	$1,745,520	$1,867,320	$2,862,602	Team options for 10/11 and 11/12. Qual offer 12/13
Jared Dudley	$1,307,640	$2,151,068	$3,114,746	Team option for 10/12/ Qual offer for 11/12
Alando Tucker	$1,071,720	$1,934,455	$2,901,682	Team option for 10/12/ Qual offer for 11/12
Louis Amundson	$855,189
Ben Wallace	$14,000,000
Sasha Pavlovic	$1,500,000			Assumes Suns waive him. $1.5m guaranteed
Earl Clark	$1,471,900	$1,582,300	$1,692,700	Team options for 11/12 and 12/13. Qual offer for 13/14
Grant Hill	$3,000,000	$3,200,000		Player option for 10/11
Channing Frye	$1,900,000	$1,900,000		Team option for 10/11
TOTAL	$78,124,626	$63,837,685	$30,279,730
CONTRACTS	14	11	7
CAP +/-	$20,824,626	$10,837,685	-$23,250,270
TAX +/-	$8,224,626	-$162,315	-$34,360,270

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Comments

Wait! You mean Robert Sarver isn't a cheap @$$?!

Oh, wait, I knew that all along. But I never could have said it so eloquently and concretely.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 10, 2009 9:44 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs

I kind of hope Wallace will choose to play for us. It could be worse, and we’ll only have him for a season, and still be saving something like 4.5 mil, right?

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jul 10, 2009 9:53 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

He's done man...totally done

ideally ben wallace is the guy we need next to Amare, but he’s a shell of a shell of himself. Nothing left.

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jul 10, 2009 10:03 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drew Gooden

any value to trying to add him I haven’t seen him play much, and all I really know of him is that he had a patch of nasty hair fuzz on the back of his head some time ago.

by ArizonaCactus on Jul 10, 2009 10:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or....

we could package Sasha and Ben for someone who could contribute this year….maybe get a 1st rounded for next year too.

by Sc413 on Jul 10, 2009 10:16 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

2011/12 is quite some time away, but if we can somehow manage to keep this team together until then, and then take that insane amount of money to grab players to fill the gaping holes we’ll have, that’ll be just swell.

What if we skip the hype on the 2010 Free Agent market and focus on using 2011 as our year? Who’s some players that’ll be available come then?

by KnowGood on Jul 10, 2009 10:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

the 2010 free agent market will fizzle

With revenues down league-wide, salary caps lowering, and no end in sight to the recession, I really think that a number of these “mega” free agents will sign for less than they would like to.

for example, absent a recession, there is no way Carlos boozer doesn’t opt out of his contract and get vast soums of money as a free agent (same with Okur)…but there is no way those players are gonna make that much as free agents anymore until things turn around, which is likely going to take more than a year.

also, i think a number of these players (hopefully Amare included) will desire taking a pay cut to play for a contender…

by ArizonaCactus on Jul 10, 2009 10:36 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it just me or is that JRich contract just awful

And looking at the 17m for Amare, I really can’t see him wanting to opt out unless he’s scared about the possibility of a lockout. I just don’t see any team giving him near 17 million, and any contract after that will probably top out at 13-15.

Maybe we get “lucky” and we get to see “Contract Amare” during the regular season, or even better, Jerome James playoff style Amare. That’s his only hope of proving he’s worth anything near 17m, and then he would opt out for a longer guaranteed contract.

I’m also a little wary of the Nash deal. I like him, he’s great in the right offense, but even at his best, he was always a defensive liability. We could let that slide if we were an Eastern conference team, but in the west, we’ve got to face the likes of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, even Tony Parker. I’ve seen the matchups up close. It’s almost embarrassing. I’m sure those guys mark the dates as potential triple double days. And we just paid 20m over the two years following this one for that privilege.

by Max Simbron on Jul 10, 2009 11:21 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Pavlovic for Raja Bell anyone?

$$$’s match. Cats can cut Pavlovic, they drafted Henderson to be sg?

by bradley281 on Jul 10, 2009 11:32 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

That would take some pride swallowing and maybe even some friendly hugs and ass kissing from both parties, but I doubt this would happen.

Besides of the two players over there I would rather get Boris back. I know, some of you may think I am crazy, but I always liked Boris, just not his contract.

by AcucracK on Jul 11, 2009 3:19 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I definitely miss Boris ...

I was watching some clips of all the post moves he had, including his sweet little hook shots. He’s actually probably one of the best post players in the game, outside of his lack of killer instinct.

by jburning on Jul 11, 2009 7:58 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're not crazy.

Boris is a fantastic player.

by rsavaj on Jul 11, 2009 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes - I've always loved Boris

but it’s funny how many people hated him while he was here….fickle fans.

I certainly don’t remember a big up roar about him leaving when the trade was made

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 9:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was more surprised...

that a team would take his contract off our hands, the talent is there for sure, but we were just paying him too much in my opinion.

by AcucracK on Jul 11, 2009 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

if

they buy out the retiring wallace for $10mil, you can chop that lux tax number in half.

the name of the team is The DIAMONDBACKS

by marionette on Jul 11, 2009 3:42 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

After a day of relaxation, just enough to think about the recent signings, I must say that I remain very pessimistic as before.

I still think that things are wrong, that Sarver and Kerr don´t know what they want and that everything is the result of improvisation.

Extending Nash for 10 m$ is absurd (by me). The team is the same that last year, with the same defensive lacks. The backcourt defensive balance last season was painful and it will be next.

I have one thing clear. The cornerstone of the Suns is Stat, not Nash. A house is built from the bottom up, not vice versa.The Suns have done just the opposite, start building from the roof.

Remember guys that the signings of Hill and Frye are for one year with a player option in the 2nd year. I don´t doubt Hill exercise his option but I doubt that Frye does, and less for that money, so he will be a free agent.

Now imagine for a moment that Stat doesn´t resign with Suns. What roster do I have in the 2010-2011 season?.

Point-guard: an elder and overpaid Nash + a role player (Dragic)
GS: an overpaid player in their last year (JRich) + Barbosa + Tucker
SF: an old Hill + Dudley + Clark + (I imagine he will play few minutes this season)
PF: None. Stat and Frye opt out his contracts an became free agents
Center: None, well yes, Lopez

This team can score a lot, can get PO, but it isn´t a contender team and unfortunately it will not be in a long time.

If Sarver and Kerr had clear ideas they would have resigned Stat; they would have picked a point guard in the draft; they would have signed a SF like Ariza instead of Hill; they have signed a player who would made a difference in a team, for example
Odom.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

by matrix7 on Jul 11, 2009 5:54 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

With you

this is a 8 or 9 seed team. It sounds good to sign Hill and bring Nash back, however the same problems exsist. Clark has to play good minutes and be productive for this team to move up in the seeding.
I just wish they had the guts to break this thing up, and start new.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Jul 11, 2009 6:46 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some people are never happy

Remember when we were looking at options for trading Nash – nothing really there that makes the teams better and pretty much the same for Amare. Actually, I think the GS deal or Bulls deals potentially do make the Suns better over time but still if Amare does come back healthy and plays well this team will be decent and fun and that’s what people want

No one has illusions about this team beating the Lakers or other top teams but it should be middle of the pack in the West especially since the Jazz and Hornets seems to be sliding and the Rockets won’t have Yao and T-Mac (for several months).

If there were better options for making this team a contender, I haven’t seen them suggested anywhere and we’ve been hashing this out for months now.

Nash (and again I am not a fan) gives the team stability, identity and credibility for an MVP for three years. Sure, in the final year or so he could fall off but for now with Nash staying and Hill the league immediately respects the Suns again and like I said, the team is in a much better place when it comes to dealing w/ Amare or other free agents next summer….

And guys, forget about trading Wallace and Sasha for other players. That would only make the salary number go up and it is already at leat $4m over the tax. Do you really think the Suns are going to pay $10m in lux tax?

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 9:28 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

I guess the frustration

that I have is this squad was extremely close to winning a NBA title. Now we are scrambling to get a 8 seed, where the Lakers, Spurs and now Denver have passed us by light years.
So not happy yes, will I root for this team and hope they perform well, Yes, however being a fan since 1972 a NBA championship is about as close as 1972, and that is what we all want.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Jul 11, 2009 9:37 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah...journey vs goal

Having seen the D-back win a ring and 2001 and fall off the table since and looking at some other really bad (consistently bad) NBA teams out there I guess I am just going to be happy with what we have vs what we don’t have

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 9:48 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

i understand your feelings

But Stan’s “journey vs goal” thing rings true as well. We’re not going to win the title with this bunch barring some miracle run coupled with injuries to other teams, so all we can hope for is that they’re a team we can enjoy watching and feel proud of as fans. This team(minus Jason Richardson for me) is going to be a team like that.

by rsavaj on Jul 11, 2009 9:52 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also question

that we were ever really that close…I mean I know those teams were contending but none of those teams would be contenders now.

Which was the best team of the D’Antoni era? 04/05? 06/07?

Look at those rosters. They weren’t deep and they didn’t play defense or rebound. They were good enough back then to win some playoff series and there’s no question that the East was horrible for awhile there so they could have beaten Miami or Cleveland but not now.

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 11:15 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we were pretty close.

Those teams weren’t “deep”, but they had an incredibly strong 7 man rotation. They certainly played defense. They were an above average defensive team, and in 05/06, they were a top 5 defensive team until Kurt Thomas went down. Shawn should have won DPOY one year:

http://www.82games.com/dpoy.htm

We were one of the top two or three teams in the league every year for about three years, and I think that qualifies as being close to the title.

by rsavaj on Jul 11, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

they were close then but would those teams have been as close in 2009? I don’t think so.

All that is to say that expectations for fans can be over cooked. It is HARD to get to the top. Very hard. And it is much easier to suck for years on end (Clippers, Grizz, etc)

For the Suns to rebuild as a championship contender is going to take a minor miracle. That’s what Tim Duncan, LeBron, Wade, Kobe and Shaq (in his prime) were. You can’t create that opportunity as much as you can luck into it.

For a time we had as good a group of stars as anyone. At least before LeBron grew up a bit and before Chris Paul and D Will and B Roy and lots of other guys came into the league.

What we didn’t have was enough depth and enough luck. Those teams could have won, sure if a few things go right but they weren’t great teams. That’s my point. And that applies today b/c it seems a lot of peoples expectations are based on the 04-07 Suns which is skewed in today’s context, IMHO

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 1:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

D'antoni Era

As much as it created an insanely fun style of play and really honed the skills of Nash and our perimeter offence, I think D’antoni was what limited Amare. When Amare first came into the league, we didnt just say how great he was dunking the ball. Dude was a shot blocker too. He didnt have the best D, but it could’ve been worked on had we had a slightly different staff. So as great as the D’antoni era was (and I very much enjoyed it), I think it hurt us a lot in the long run because it didnt develop any players.

by KnowGood on Jul 11, 2009 11:45 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Boris, LB, Amare, JJ, Nash, Diaw

All of those players blossomed(aka developed) under D’Antoni.

by rsavaj on Jul 11, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boris and Diaw are the same person.

by rsavaj on Jul 11, 2009 12:56 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am not sure about that

Boris ate doughnuts, came into camp over weight and passed the ball too much. That Diaw guys was smooth, ran the offense, was selectively aggressive and was a very versatile and under-rated defender

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 1:42 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's cheating

You can’t make D’antoni look better by putting Boris’ first and last name on that list.

I agree with KnowGood on this one. A great coach will have his style, and will put guys around him that understand that style but also understand other ways to win so the head coach gets more points of view than his own. But all D’antoni did was fill his bench with yes-men and his brother, a very, very poor man’s Coach D.

Take care of the little things, and the big things will take care of themselves.

by SunDolphin on Jul 11, 2009 6:07 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

Go read a book!

by N8lol on Jul 11, 2009 6:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

What About Ben?!?

Thanks for the financial breakdown, it is the most detailed I’ve seen so far. I think it leads to two big questions:
1. Can Ben Wallace and/or Channing Frye effectively play center in a line-up of Amare, Grant Hill, Steve Nash, Jason Richardson?
2. Can that line-up get us the # 5 spot in the Western Conference so we can avoid meeting the the Lakers, Spurs, Nuggest in the first round of the play-offs?
If the answer to these questions is “yes” then we should leave everyone we have in place, bring Channing Frye on board and break out the purple and orange for the 2009-10 season. If not, we have some serious work to do – especially in the center position.
Personally, I would love to add Chris Bosh at center but the numbers ($$$$) raise real questions about whether that’s possible.
So I’ll be happy with Amare, Grant Hill, Frye/ Lopez/ Wallace(?), Nash, J-Rich and look forward with some confidence to a significant play-off spot in 2009-10.

by fedres on Jul 11, 2009 1:25 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Ben Wallace won’t play for the Suns. I am 90% sure of that and in fact Coro reported today that they are in fact close to a $10m buy out.

I totally agree that Lopez / Frye doesn’t strike fear in hearts but almost every team – even play off teams – have roster weaknesses. Only the very top teams are great 1 thru 5 plus deep.

As I pointed out, there is no money available to bring in anyone else so the upper limit as it stands now is about a 5 seed in the West but you just don’t know who might get injured right? What if Kobe goes down for half the season? Or Roy? Or Melo?

The good news is that it appears the Jazz and Rockets and Hornets are sliding back while this Suns roster with a full year under Gentry should be better then last season

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 11, 2009 1:46 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

True enough

This is what I noticed when writing my fanpost. As far as the WC goes, the only people getting better seem to be the Lakers (and only marginally with the loss of Ariza and Odom) and Spurs (we’ll see how that goes…). Everyone else stayed the same (Denver so far, Utah, Portland) or got worse (NO, Houston). Seems like anyone’s game really…

Go read a book!

by N8lol on Jul 11, 2009 6:11 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs

Injuries

I like how we’re discussing this possibility of other teams losing start players to injury when our roster sports 2 35+ year-old players and a recovering Amar’e Stoudemire. I know, we also have an Aaron Nelson, but age quite literally kills.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 12, 2009 9:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

always a consideration

no team can really stand too many injuries and still win and last year the Suns were one of the more healthy teams in the West

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 13, 2009 10:48 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK It's - Amare, Grant Hill, Frye, Nash, J-Rich

It is not perfect but I think that’s a starting line-up that can win at least a half-dozen games more than last season and get us into the play-offs. If this is who the Suns have then I’m ready to hunker down, congratulate management for putting together a quality starting five, and join the cheering section.
Hopefully our erstwhile GM – yes I mean you – Steve Kerr – and his management colleagues don’t undermine the franchise by sniping at the guys playing for us on the court. No more jawing to the press about Amare, J-Rich, etc. The backbiting last year was getting pretty repulsive.

by fedres on Jul 11, 2009 2:42 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs