Summer Suns Get Out-Everythinged by Grizzlies
by Mike Lisboa on Jul 19, 2009 3:36 AM MDT
in Summer League
33 comments
Repeat after me: It's only the Summer League; it's only the Summer League. That's the only way this Suns loss is remotely palatable. Aside from an increasingly and refreshingly aggressive Goran Dragic and a competent Zabian Dowdell, there is not much else good to report about this game.
The numbers seem like a good place to start: outscored by 37, outshot by 15% (a putrid 33% from the field, 0-14 on three-pointers), outrebounded by 21, out-assisted by 10. And it wasn't even that close.
The lone bright spots were the point guard play of Goran Dragic and Zabian Dowdell. As in the game against the D-League Select, Dragic was aggressive early, going to the rim. Even though he got off to a slow start in the first quarter, he kept attacking and finished the half with 14 points on 5 of 9 shooting. He was a little out of control in his attempts to push the ball up the court, but with only 1 turnover against 2 assists in just under 23 minutes of play, his command of the ball wasn't an issue. Dowdell was similarly effective in his 23 minutes tallying 14 points on 7 of 15 shooting with no assists and a turnover. While it's true Dowdell looks far more composed and collected than Goran, I think Dragic is the more physically gifted of the two, while perhaps Dowdell is shrewder (which may lead to the "better" comparison).
You may have notice that the point guards combined for 1 2 assists in 46 minutes of play. Part of that had to do with both of them looking for their own shot, but mostly it's because the rest of the team combined for a paltry 10 field goals on a whopping 43 attempts. Which I suppose brings us to the unbridled ugliness of the rest of the team.
Robin Lopez appears to have regressed with each successive game since his monstrous Summer League opener. Hasheem Thabeet, who has yet to really impress anyone here in Las Vegas, outplayed RoLo badly. While the numbers bear this out (10 pts., 7 reb. for Thabeet vs. 1pt., 4 reb. for Lopez), again it wasn't even that close. Routinely Thabeet beat Lopez to his spot on the floor or boxed him out, pinned him under the rim and generally out-positioned him. And it could have been much, much worse. All of Thabeet's 4 misses were on wide open dunks.
Rounding out the Suns' "big three" here in Las Vegas, Earl Clark had a thoroughly mediocre performance. Rather than using his athleticism to drive and create, Clark fell in love with mid- to long-range jumpers, making 4 and missing 8. Fortunately, the rookie continues to attack the glass (5 boards) and notched 3 blocks to boot.
I'm beginning to see what the Suns see in 2nd round draft pick Taylor Griffin: Dan Majerle. A little bigger and a little beefier, but his game is similar to Majerle's nonetheless. Unfortunately, Griffin has yet to demonstrate the same quickness and range that made Majerle so reliable on defense and so dangerous on offense. He followed Friday's 1-9 performance with a 3-7 effort from the field. Aside from finishing a fastbreak with a pretty thunderous dunk, it was jumper-palooza for Griffin as well. On defense he was abused by the faster and more athletic Grizzlies (prompting a fellow blogger to note that "Sam Young is eating his lunch."), but to be fair no one on the Suns' roster did much of anything to slow down the Memphis' offensive blitzkrieg.
With 5 players in double-figures and 48 points in the paint, Memphis appeared to be running a lay-up drill for large portions of the game. The Suns had no answer for Sam Young who drove to the hoop with impunity. Demarre Carroll also impressed with more hustle and energy than the entire Suns' roster seemed to be able to muster.
It's worth noting that Memphis' summer team fields 4 rotation players and they are undefeated in summer league play, including a 19-point thumping of the Thunder and an 18-point ripping of the Clippers. The Grizzlies are the cream of the crop of this year's Summer League and clearly outclassed the younger, less experienced Summer Suns.
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Heyyyy, I was misquoted.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 19, 2009 12:08 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Correct me. I thought I nailed that.
by Mike Lisboa on Jul 19, 2009 2:22 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you nailed it. I forgot my smiley face to indicate joking.
We specialize in misinformation around here. Facts and stats just get in the way.
by Wayne Vore (ATS) on Jul 19, 2009 1:29 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
So our point guards combined for 1 assist but Goran had 2? Either way, they obviously played very well?
And I’m glad Earl Clark is showing that he is both as a) talented and b) moody as advertised.
Good times.
Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.
by rosewood on Jul 19, 2009 7:53 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Here’s a slightly more negative assessment of the game.
Earl Clark is already in my dog house. What the hell man? Already he’s got a rap for lack of intensity, and his quotes basically acknowledge it. A rookie should never be saying “I can only do what I can do.” Earl, do you want to be this former Suns first rounder?
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 19, 2009 9:09 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
why dont we wait
until the season starts to start losing hope in earl clark. we have the privelege of passing judgment on everyone and everything after every single event—lets not abuse that. also keep in mind that this memphis team was very, very good, and that our summer suns were not playing as a team so much as trying to earn their spots on the roster. a little patience, please, yeesh.
im curious to see how earl does in the season, as well as goran and robin.
by yanyanman2 on Jul 19, 2009 11:21 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m not passing jugement on Earl Clark and I don’t think he is a failure by any means. However, when you are a rookie, and you are known as a great talent but with questionable work ethic/intensity, that is a significant problem, especially after you just signed a million dollar contract. He seems to be saying, “Gosh I don’t know what my problem is.”That’s B.S. and if I’m Alvin Gentry and David Griffin and Steve Kerr I’m not happy. I am passing judgement on his comments, not the player.
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 19, 2009 6:47 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
lets hope this game leaves a bad taste in our players’ mouths and lights a fire under them so they can continue to work and train to be ready for the season
by yanyanman2 on Jul 19, 2009 11:25 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
So far
I think we have to call this SL group a disappointment
Lopez had one great game against really bad competition and then faded
Clark came out strong and displayed his talent but hasn’t found a way stand out
Dragic while still showing his skills also showed that he’s not made any progress towards being a floor leader
Taylor G also show his athletic abilities but gave no reason why he should make the team at the 3/4 when the depth issues reside at the 5 and the 1
I have also think that the coaching hasn’t been that good. The team doesn’t look together and the rotations seem inconsistent. Griff did tell me on Wednesday that they perhaps should have held a few more practices before coming to Vegas and that all they really did was run some drills together so there is that. Frankly though, I’m not worried on that front. How cares if the team doesn’t look good and Dan isn’t going to be coaching anytime soon. I think Igor is much closer to being a head coach. He’s much more experienced.
But Lopez’ lack of fire after game 1 and the lack of progress from Dragic are troubling. Clark is what he is. A highly talented rookie that could be a very very good player if he figures it out or he could fade away after a few years as a guy that never lived up to his potential. That’s on him. We all knew he was a bit of a long shot and that he would take some time to develop. If he had Blake Griffin’s desire and instincts he’d have been a top 5 player with his skill set.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jul 19, 2009 11:28 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Stan, get a grip... it's summer league.
Even Hollinger thinks SL is pretty useless for anything other than figuring out basic stuff.
re: Clark.. you need to wait until he plays a whole season.
Doesn’t anybody here remember what a headcase Trix was/is? And before anybody says… “well Trix brought it every night”, no he didn’t, he actually disappeared in some of our most important games/series.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 19, 2009 11:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly what I said
patience…very skilled but needs to figure it out.
A highly talented rookie that could be a very very good player if he figures it out or he could fade away after a few years as a guy that never lived up to his potential. That’s on him.
There’s no question though that Dragic hasn’t stepped up in some areas and our concerns about Lopez’ desire haven’t been put to rest
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jul 19, 2009 12:09 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but summer league isn't, imho, the place for those questions to be answered.
it’s basically pickup ball, with room service.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 19, 2009 12:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
when you see all the different guys out there playing the ones that are going 100% stand out. Also, these guys are working in the gym on the their days off and aren’t hanging out partying. So yes, SL matters in that it is a check in on where guys are at. It is not the final answer but it is certainly a mid term quiz. The teams take this very seriously. As Coach Igor told me, this is the biggest basketball market in the world. Everyone is here and everyone is watching. If a young player doesn’t care about that and how it impacts his career then he is very foolish.
Robin didn’t do that. I am less worried about him but still, he’s not yet a guy that’s going to live up to his potential unless he really wants it. Guys like Eric Gordon and as much as it pains me to say, Brandon Jennings did that.
Robin still hasn’t shown that basketball is his one and only burning passion and desire and until it is he’s not going to be the player that he can be.
The things that make the great players great is that they compete ALL THE TIME. In practice. In pick up games. All the time. It also is what makes less skilled players get jobs – Lou and Jared for example. If you have guys that are highly skilled but don’t work hard everytime it is very much an indication of how well they will do come regular season.
Goran isn’t like that though. He works hard. He’s got the desire. He’s just having trouble adjusting culturally and perhaps personally to being in a leadership role. It is not his nature – at least right now. Very similar to Barbosa in that way. Having spent a lot of time with the kid I believe he has the potential to improve that part of his game but this summer has shown us where he is right now. It is what it is.
This isn’t just my opinion either. This is what top team people are thinking about both guys.
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jul 19, 2009 12:32 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with summer league is precisely the lack of organized play...
and the fact that it’s the first type of game after the end of the season. To be honest, Summer League, for many players, marks the start of the training season, and no more.
Furthermore, it’s a relaxed environment, where you have scrubs trying to impress so that they can make a team, and established players either rehabbing or working on some part of their game. I’d point out that Robin Lopez and Goran already have jobs next season, so they don’t have to impress observers in the same way as a Dowdell would.
The other thing about SL, is that some players just aren’t suited to playing pickup style ball. John Stockton, for instance, was notorious for being a mediocre pickup player (and he hated playing pickup, or any non-organized ball, btw). And in SL, the hardest thing for any coach is to maintain any offensive coordination or consistency.
Stockton was also a player who kept his emotions in check, all the time, except for one very famous instance. Kareem was another player who kept it cool, on the court. Consequently, I don’t go for all of this “wear your heart on your sleeve” bs.
Furthermore, if a player is working on some aspect of his offensive game, like his shooting form, or passing, you can expect his game to suffer a little until he has it figured out. In fairness to you, it’s not clear that either Sideshow or Goran are actually doing that.
Anyway, in terms of determining progress, I usually wait until pre-season camp to make those judgments, since they’ll be playing with their teammates, will have a rhythm much closer to the real season, and more importantly will have finished their summer training.
I’d point out that the rust factor is an issue for summer league, and it’s hugely important. I used to work close to Brandeis, where the Celtics used to train, and remember watching Larry Bird practice his shooting, when he was coming back from rehab. The guy would miss a ton of easy shots, like jumpshots from inside the FT line, just from a lack of practice & rhythm. 2 weeks later, playing in the old Boston Garden, he puts in one of those famous Larry games, where he goes something like 12 for 16, and hits a clutch shot at the buzzer.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 19, 2009 4:08 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Disorganized Play & Coaching
That’s almost a righteous knock on Summer League, but not entirely fair. Several squads stood out for their cohesiveness as a unit. Certainly the Grizzlies did, as did the Spurs (natch) and the D-League Select squad, a group of players that hadn’t played together until they got to Las Vegas.
I think Phoenix Stan has a legitimate point with how well the Suns team was or was not coached. Other squads with less-talented or equally talented players did look tighter.
by Mike Lisboa on Jul 19, 2009 5:23 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
That might be the case.. but
we were the only team to beat the D-Leaguers. What does that say about our coaching/organization? From that, you could make the point we were getting it together, whatever that means. I don’t think it actually means anything.
You have to bear in mind that almost by design, the level of coaching organization that goes into SL is roughly equivalent to an all-star game, with the caveat that the players (excepting the D-Leaguers) don’t know each other, and the experience/talent level from the players, coaches and refs is much lower.
Sometimes you get lucky and your team jells. Othertimes, it doesn’t. imho, the Spurs organization is actually the only group who treat all aspects of their development regime with some seriousness, and that’s why they’re successful. otoh, does anyone honestly think the Griz are going to be better coached than us, or play better than us, this upcoming season ? I thought not.
Don’t get me wrong. It does warm the heart to see a player do well under such circumstances, but I’ve seen too many instances (Tim Duncan being the main example) where indifferent or mediocre SL (and pre-season) play leads to an outstanding NBA season, and vice versa.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 19, 2009 6:49 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. The team the suns sent has 3 guys who are going to make the team. The coaching staff should be focusing on these 3 and their weaknesses. If it is not clear that Lopez and Dragic are working on these then it is a coaching problem. With Clark his problem was well known and should have been addressed as well before these games started.
I do not think it is the lack of ‘bringing it every night’ but more of forgetting the things that make you successful. In Clarks case you have to tell him his success is greatest when he doesn’t shoot all those J’s and you reinforce this by saying this game no J’s take it to the basket or find Lopez or Dragic with a pass.
As for Lopez it looks like he has had no coaching, the only time he seemed to show an improvement was when Shaq got on him. These 3 should be focusing on playing together and working on their short comings. Everything else is a waste, including the score.
The NBA like the NHL has no time for one on one game type practicing for young players during the season their skills are delveloped on the ‘job’.
The SL at this time has no value to the suns other than possibly picking up a 13th man.
by overthere on Jul 19, 2009 5:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Majerle
does anyone really think Thunder Dan has any attributes that would make him a good coach?
I’m asking seriously, because I just don’t see a dedication in him for the job. He seems to me the coaching equivalent of our use of such players as Pat Burke and Paul Shirley
by ArizonaCactus on Jul 19, 2009 6:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
he could kick the shit out of anyone who mouthed off to him...
upside of being a former Golden Gloves champion.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 19, 2009 6:51 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I made an offhand comment about Majerle wanting to coach to keep him out of the bars and out of trouble, which I guess was my way of saying that I was surprised he was a coach. However, I feel he is as qualified as any former playe rto be an assistant at this point. He was known for his defense and work ethic. He was a no one coming out of Central Michigan and through hard work made himself into a quality NBA player. I think he is an excellent role model in that regard to guys like Amundson and Dudley. And I do believe he can teach defense. Now as a strategist or an X and O guy, no, not yet, and probably never. Dan doesn’t strike me as being that focused. Still, who knows, Jerry Colangelo coached a little bit.
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 19, 2009 6:55 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
this week was a check in and first look. It may or may not mean anything come the season. Feel free to ignore anything you like.
And of course nothing really matters except the box scores in the regular season but if that’s all we cared about this site wouldn’t exist
Blogging Suns Basketball
by Seth Pollack on Jul 20, 2009 10:02 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE
Look at this SL play as a get to know you. Sort of like the continuation of an interview process expect an interview with a signed contract for players like Clark. Other player like Griffin it becomes just the next step in the interview process. This whole SL process is just that. Teams set expectations differently while other are strict and never relent or stray for the process while still other team allow the potential hire to roam free…checking to see what type of person this player is away from the game.
Teams set rules and team don’t set rules. This is a time for the player(s) to get to know and learn firsthand what it means to be playing for the NBA. Playing in Las Vegas is about the biggest distraction you can place on a kid right out of college…getting my meaning? All the players’ persona will come out in this type of atmosphere and I compare this SL to the 90 day grace period of a new job.
In the NBA certain expectations are noted with each player. Furthermore, player Bio’s are read questions are asked and answered of family members, friends, coaches and teammates. Finally the players resume is scrutinized time and time again. With all that is said, the decision to hire and sign the player is the responsibility of the team management and the coaches. What happens next is all about the labor contract and as we know about contracts it basically extends that 90 day grace period to 2 years or more which happens to be around the time a player should understand his role and start becoming effective, or simply not a bust. Some players will benefit like Clark while others must fight hard to see their dream come true much like Griffin but all in all those players who work hard at the game and show character will someday see that dream come true abide from the AI’s of the world. But that a different story all together.
So for the sake of Clark who has 2 years to show what he is capable of and Griffin (who I hope makes the team) who is feeling pressure like there is no tomorrow these players will receive fair evaluations with only one at this moment having the guarantee to make a few million in 2 years time and if there is failure then it not me making the call it the management and coaches who should feel the heat and not the individual players who had their fair evaluation…
by RogerM on Jul 20, 2009 3:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm glad someone else remembers this
before they put in for his sainthood
by Fritzy on Jul 19, 2009 1:34 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but I'd still have Trix on this team over anyone not called Nash
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jul 19, 2009 4:33 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently, i chose a good game to skip
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
by rsavaj on Jul 19, 2009 11:29 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
So im sitting here watching this summer league game and it is crazy how uncoordinated ROLO is.
No day but today
by RyanMarcus on Jul 19, 2009 10:19 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
announcers LVPs
man they got so bad I had to mute the game for a while!
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 19, 2009 11:18 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
i know right, i dont know how rick kamla has a job
No day but today
by RyanMarcus on Jul 20, 2009 12:11 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
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