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2009 Phoenix Suns Summer League Wrap Up

Los Angeles Clippers' Mike Taylor falls as Phoenix Suns' Goran Dragic drives around him during their NBA Summer League basketball game at Thomas & Mack Arena in Las Vegas on Sunday, July 19, 2009. The Suns defeated the Clippers 87-70.(AP Photo/Laura Rauch)

More photos » by Laura Rauch - AP

4 months ago: Los Angeles Clippers' Mike Taylor falls as Phoenix Suns' Goran Dragic drives around him during their NBA Summer League basketball game at Thomas & Mack Arena in Las Vegas on Sunday, July 19, 2009. The Suns defeated the Clippers 87-70.(AP Photo/Laura Rauch)

After a few long days in Las Vegas watching the Suns and a couple more recovering from those days, I figured it's time to give some final thoughts on what was seen there.  Of course, Summer League is not the be-all end-all measuring stick for these players.  Marco Belinelli and Marcus Banks both killed in Summer League only to fade to obscurity or worse in the regular season.  Still, I think it's a useful laboratory for gaining some (albeit, limited) insight into what these gentlemen will bring to the table come October.

Goran Dragic - If any of the Summer Suns came out a winner, it was without a doubt the young Slovenian.  It was possible to see his confidence grow with each game.  As Phoenix Stan has pointed out, this is the first time in his career that Dragic has been asked to be "the man" on the court and it's a role he's still growing into.  Clearly, the Suns are pushing him to be the team leader when he's running the offense.  While he has yet (even against the limited competition of Summer League) to demonstrate he's got what it takes to be the heir apparent to Steve Nash, he definitely showed signs of improvement.  He grew ever so slightly more vocal as the week went on and grew more fearless about attacking the rim and finding his own offense.  And let me tell you, that first step of his is going to put more than one opposing guard on their heels.  Best case this season is he gives the team 15-20 minutes off the bench and continues to develop his leadership skills.  He's going to make mistakes for sure, but I'm hoping they're of the aggressive smart kind (like when he got rejected going hard to the rack versus the Grizzlies) instead of the meek, flustered kind (bad passes out of traps and whatnot).  He was definitely the Suns' strongest player throughout Summer League.

Robin Lopez - Oy.   I wasn't there for his one good game.  Instead I saw three of his lesser, and what I can sadly believe are more typical, performances.  And believe me when I say against the Grizzlies, he was terrible.  Hasheem Thabeet had looked, not to put to fine a point on it, god awful up until that game, demonstrating no discernible basketball instincts.  He absolutely dominated Lopez in the paint when they matched up.  My entirely unprofessional opinion of what's ailing Robin is an interminable case of spazziness.  Seeing him on the floor, it's apparent he has the physical attributes and ability to be at the very least a passable starting center.  However, he hasn't figured out how to harness his intensity and direct his body into making the plays he's capable of making.  I prescribe some yoga, meditation and Alexander technique classes. That's really only half a joke.  If he learned how to slow himself down, and more importantly, control his body, I think we'd see those foul number drop precipitously.  I don't question Robin's desire nearly as much as I question his ability to control that desire.  He has to improve almost all aspects of his game in order to give the Suns many quality minutes at the 5.  I think we'll see a lot of Stoudemire and Frye at center to start the season.

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 07/22/09 3:55 PM MST ]

As Mike indicated, if we were hoping that Vegas would answer questions about Robin we were wrong. My impression is that after performing so well in the first game he acted as if he'd proved all he needed to prove. The team seemed much more focused on Goran's progress and no one seemed particularly concerned with Robin but I left before his final two games. With his brother and family in town one also has to wonder how distracted he was.

Robin still has all the tools to be a very good player. I guess we will have to wait until he gets consistent minutes either starting or off the bench to get a better feel for his desire to be that player. And by the way, Robin wasn't the only 2nd or 3rd year player that had one good game and seemed disinterested from then on in. Andre Blatche comes to mind.

Earl Clark- For me, the jury is way out on Clark.   As Phoenix Stan pointed out, the players at Summer League who were driven and want to excel clearly stood out.  DeJuan Blair, Brandon Jennings, James Johnson and Blake Griffin all come to mind.  Aside from his first game, when Clark posted a double-double, he didn't do much to distinguish himself.  To be honest, I don't read too much into this.  Unlike Blair and Jennings, he didn't come into Vegas with a chip on his shoulder and unlike Griffin, he wasn't expected to save the franchise.  He did however demonstrate why the Suns took him in the first round.  He's capable of: hitting from outside, driving to the basket, bringing the ball up, getting his fair share of rebounds, defending multiple positions.  He has a lot going for him.  

Star-divide

However, if his drive and ambition are question marks come the regular season, I don't know who's going to be the one to get in his face.  I have no doubt that Alvin Gentry will get on him, but who's going to back Coach up in the locker room?  Steve "Winning a championship isn't as important as stability" Nash?  Amar'e "I'm not a captain but call me Sun Tzu anyway" Stoudemire?  I would guess Grant Hill, but it does not keep me warm at night that the Suns' most consistent leadership and locker room presence is the guy who, in his 14th season, just played 82 games for the first time.  Better that Hill takes him under his wing early and we never has to have the attitude conversation in the first place.

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 07/22/09 3:59 PM MST ]

The key guys I think for Earl are going to be Lou and Jared. He will playing with and against those guys a lot in practice. Each brings a lot more effort and heart than Clark might be used to but neither has his talent or potential. He certainly stands to learn a lot from being around those guys. Probably more then from Old Man Hill who isn't likely to get into Clark's face. I think the team plans on making Clark earn his minutes which in the long run should be a good thing for him. He's going to have to step it up to get on the court and prove himself better than those hustle players.

Taylor Griffin - Taylor Griffin is not quite ready for prime time and I'm not sure he ever will be.  I would not be surprised if he didn't make the Suns' roster.  He works hard and leaves it all on the court, but aside from a memorable dunk or two, did not do much to impress me.  As I've said before, his game is reminiscent of Dan Majerle's but without the skills to back up the hustle and hunger.  I could definitely see the Suns going with a veteran big man or guard instead of Griffin for the 13th roster spot.

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 07/22/09 4:07 PM MST ]

I agree totally. I seriously doubt Taylor makes the team. He's going to have to improve his outside shot much more before he gets anywhere at the next level. He should probably just find a way to ride his younger brother's coat tails and help keep him out of trouble. And btw, Blake is really really good.

Zabian Dowdell - As one basketball writer at Summer League put it: "He's a grown up."  He's got poise and confidence on the court.  He's a good ball handler with a nice jumper.  I didn't see the burst or athleticism that Dragic demonstrates, but he's a more than competent point guard.  I think he'll end up on an NBA bench somewhere this season if he doesn't take the money and go back to Europe.

Micah Downs - I liked what I saw from Downs when he was on.  Sadly, he was only "on" for one game.  He's athletic as all get out, capable of getting off the floor and to the basket for either a dunk or a rebound.  I think his frame is a little slight for an NBA shooting guard and he wasn't consistent enough in summer league for me to think he warrants an NBA roster spot.  I don't think there's any place for him in the Suns rotation.

Jiri Hubalek/Kaspar Berzins - A pair of 7 footers (Hubalek is actually 6'11", but this is the Suns we're talking about.  That's as close to 7 feet as we usually see around these parts.) who can hit the three, but lack the quickness or strength to keep up with the Dirks outside or bang with the Dwight's inside.  They'll have fun in the D-League or Europe.

[Note by Phoenix Stan, 07/22/09 4:04 PM MST ]

I actually like Hubalek. I liked him last year too. He can shoot from range. Plays hard. He even blocked some shots but he's just not really an NBA player. If Sean Marks can't get off the bench then this guy can't. I am sure he helped his overseas contract prospects though.

Berzins is no where close to the NBA. The other guy I like is Carlos Powell. He's got some nice aspects to his game like a good face up move and he plays with passion. I think overall his skill set is too limited though. Not big enough. Not talented enough. But still a good good ball player.

The rest of the roster didn't do much to make an impression due to either limited minutes or lack of attention from me.  Perhaps it's my limited experience covering games in person, but I found I could either focus on the game or the players, but to do both was pretty taxing (as was watching 6-8 hours of basketball a day for 4 days straight). So those are my final impressions of the Summer Suns.  

Dragic made a strong case for shouldering much of the second unit load and I think with the right kind of mentorship from Alvin Gentry and Steve Nash, he'll continue to improve throughout the season, but won't be without his share of moments that make me groan.  Earl Clark should crack the rotation and contribute some quality minutes when given the opportunity.  He's very skilled and if he applies himself diligently, he could work his way up the depth chart.  As for Robin, he's still very much a project as much as it pains me to say it.  Unless he makes some significant improvement between now and the start of the season, he is not starter material.

 

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Good Report

Fair and honest appraisal of the team the Suns put out there for Vegas. To be honest, it sounds like the team this year was three rotation players (Clark, Dragic and Lopez) and a bunch of scrubs, guys who are decent ballers but not NBA level talent.

Dragic repeatedly said the team wasn’t playing Phoenix Suns style ball, where he’d often be a one on three fast break with no one on the Suns past midcourt.

That they did finish with a decent record is somewhat encouraging.

by eagleheart on Jul 22, 2009 1:54 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

True about the breaks

Dragic was often the first one up the court with no one to pass to. Not terribly surprising considering he and Robin were the only Suns rotation players on the squad. If you listen to the David Thorpe interview, Thorpe mentions that Earl Clark may have had a conditioning issue or two before Summer League (i.e. “lost his lunch” between drills). I don’t consider this much of a red flag, since most college teams (unless they’re coached by Paul Westhead) don’t play anywhere near as fast a pace as the Suns.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 22, 2009 5:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very good summary...

Fropez is very frustrating. I think he has the worst basketball IQ of any player I can remember (maybe Georgi Gluchkov). I’m fairly certain that Robin thinks the idea of a basketball game is to foul as many people as possible as quickly as possible.

He has all the tools…I just don’t think he’ll ever find the key to the toolbox.

"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"

by mutleyil on Jul 22, 2009 1:56 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Honest

With PHX working to maintaian profits; whats your take with the two open positions that PHX has. Will PHX move to sign a FA or keep Griffin on baord for pratice drills and possible sign Zabian Dowdell to the minimum.
Whats your take and and what do you think will unfold in the comming months?

by RogerM on Jul 22, 2009 2:21 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

BTW, Clark did shut down Blake Griffin

I keep on repeating myself, on this subject, but everyone seems to want to compare Clark to Boris, and I think that’s a faulty comparison.

Clark actually has a lot more in common with Shawn Marion, primarily his ability to defend from the 4 all the way to the 1, but because he’s bigger, he can actually get a little more physical against 4’s, as opposed to Shawn who had to do his thing just with speed.

What does this mean? Well, all of a sudden we’re defensively much better, and we matchup much better defensively vs. the Lakers (Amare vs Stones, Clark vs Pau), and the Spurs, Portland and Denver.

Offensively, we go back to our speedball game, with JRich & Nash providing the outside shooting, and the Amare/Nash P&R.

It means, though, that Amare will have to play some 5, especially against the Lakers, and take advantage of his quickness against those opposing centers. Stones Bynum, to me, seems vulnerable to an opposing 5 with speed, on both ends of the court. Clark has the ability to shut down both Pau and Lamar. We now have enough depth on our frontline to play matchup games.

Lopez beings us some hardness when we need it. btw, there’s nothing wrong with Lopez’s game that can’t be fixed by giving him some quality playing time.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 22, 2009 3:19 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the hope

but Clark might take some time to reach that point if he ever does. Also, I don’t really see him as being that physical. In person he’s not very big. He’s tall and long but not nearly as strong as Shawn. Not yet anyway.

His upside is a neat combo of Marion’s D and Boris passing and ball handling which is exciting but he also could be Julian Wright which is to say guy that didn’t live up to his potential. I don’t think we will know until at best half way through the season which way it is headed w/ him. That’s my guess anyway.

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 22, 2009 4:14 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed..

but with rookies and sophomores, you’re always talking about potential, given the time it takes players to mature in this league. that’s just the nature of things.

For rookies, especially college players, given their inexperience one has to pay more attention to the good things a player is doing, because things change dramatically when stepping up to the pros.

I’ll say this, though, I can’t remember whose story it was about Dragic & Porter gambling, but I never expected a pro coach, in this day and age, to behave like that towards his rookies. And that kind of thing does more damage to a player’s career than one could possibly imagine. Not to condone those actions, but as time goes on, I find myself sympathizing more and more with players like Latrell Sprewell.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 22, 2009 4:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gambling?

Gambling on what? I never heard that story.

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 12:13 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

ArizonaCactus posted it under the title "my Terry Porter story"

on Jul 18th, in the “Suns fans introduce yourselves” thread.

It was a charity event.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 23, 2009 1:05 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

o man i just disliked porter 10 fold after reading that..

sounded very unprofessional and strange to me.

Thanks for looking it up that couldn’t have been that easy to find man!

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 1:27 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

If odom goes to miami we match up against the lakers even better..I wish we had a lockdown defender on the perimeter but cant have anything plus Gasol and Bynum aren’t physical at all

by Lebrontophx2010 on Jul 22, 2009 7:25 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clark was able to shutdown both Griffin *and* Jennings..

So if he plays the 3, in the same style as Trix, he rolls to become Nash’s go to guy on the perimeter (Nash actually being pretty good at funneling players to his teammates), and in the P&R, if he learns how to defend that.

The problem comes if JRich refuses to play any D, in which case Clark has to cover for both guys, which is almost an impossible problem to deal with.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 22, 2009 8:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great info

Thanks for the update! Good to hear the Dragic is coming along and I am really optimistic about Clark if he can just prove all those who doubt his passion/dedication/effort wrong on a consistent basis. Lopez is frustrating because he’s got the size and athletic ability to thrive, but doesn’t seem to have focus/control/whatever it takes to do so. I hope he finds it, because we’ll need it. I like Griffin because he gives his all, all the time, but if there’s not that much upside… maybe Dowdell is a better option? Then again, it is the end of the bench. How much time would either be expected to play?

by psknapp on Jul 22, 2009 3:42 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Goran...

By now most everyone here knows of my distaste for Goran Dragic. While I do agree that he showed some improvement (not nearly enough for me to start singing his praises) when I went back and rewatched some of the games I noticed that when he tried to run the offense he would get in trouble as he would try to get to his spots. Many times he would try to get somewhere, fail and be forced to back it out and the offense would get stuck. He was best when the coaches made the adjustment and had him just push tempo agressively without worrying about running much of anything. From my viewpoint, this is due in large part to his lack of a PGs handle. I’ve said all along that he is fundamentally a poor ball handler and I didn’t see much improvement in that area or in his ability to quarterback a team. Even against summer league competition I still found myself cringing as I watched him play and I don’t see him as anything more than an 8 – 10 minute guy now or anytime in the future. As always, I hope I’m wrong but while I’ll admit he does play better as his confidence grows, he still has the same fundamental flaws in his game that caused me to start the Cut Goran Dragic blog in the first place. Sorry to be a downer at the Summer League Goran is our hero party but that’s what I saw.

by watdogg10 on Jul 22, 2009 5:48 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

it's ok and warranted to have criticisms

No one here believes Dragic is ready for prime-time yet. And if they do, I don’t know what they’re watching and I may want some of what they’re smoking.

Hopefully, however, he will put some things together and be a serviceable back-up until he proves he’s either capable or, as you think, fundamentally flawed. Time will tell…

I’m currently watching the PHX-MEM game and he doesn’t look great, but he’s not horrible. So far, he’s made two good drives and finishes at the rim. He still needs to improve a lot of things, including basics such as ball handling, court leadership, and free throws….

By the way, the roster that we put out for summer league wasn’t very good at all. I know this was likely our worst performance, but Lopez looks horrible and Clark seems to disappear on possessions offensively. He needs to set better screens, but on a different note, I like his jumper. Soft touch for a big man.

by ArizonaCactus on Jul 22, 2009 7:11 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes

I think that unless he ends up as good as Tony Parker, Dragic will always be a bust to you.

Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.

by rosewood on Jul 22, 2009 8:59 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my issue...

He should not have been in a Suns uniform last year. The Suns completely overhyped him and even after drafting him they should have left him to play in the Euro League to develop for a couple of years instead of buying out his contract and giving him an unreasonable contract for an unproven rookie taken in the second round. I mean, dude got paid about $1 million more than Matt Barnes (not to mention the additional $500,000 the Suns paid to help with the buyout) and as much as everyone around here talks trash about Barnes you can’t say Dragic was better than him last year. So for me, until I see ANYTHING that says that he can be an NBA PG he will always be a bust. I’ve said for a while that I think if he makes it in this league its going to be as more of a 2 guard – he just hasn’t shown me anything from a PG perspective up to this point – the fact that he couldn’t be effective as a PG in Summer League against FAR inferior talent without the coaches just telling him to barrell ahead and not worry about setting up the offense should be a HUGE red flag..

by watdogg10 on Jul 23, 2009 8:23 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I guess

I don’t understand your standard of “be an NBA PG.” I mean, does that mean he has to be an All-star point guard? A starting PG? A solid backup PG? At 1.8M a year being a solid backup is right about market value, and, to me, if Goran can become a 15 mpg backup PG, the Suns got a hell of a 2nd round pick.

This also means he really only needs to be as good as Jordan Farmar, Anthony Carter, Kyle Lowry, Boobie Gibson or Sebastian Telfair. None of these guys are that great and have large holes in their games. Some of them (Farmar and Gibson) can’t even really play PG in the distributor sense. But all of them are valid rotational players in the league and all of them make more money than Dragic.

So, to me, since this is what I expect, I find it hard to believe he won’t reach this level. He’s fairly close to it already, considering a year ago he was still baling in Europe. So, like I’ve said since we drafted him, Goran will not be a bust because he will become a solid backup PG. It’s possible he becomes better, but I think it’s highly unlikely he becomes worse.

And for a second round pick, even at the whopping(?) salary of 1.8M a year (a small portion of which still goes to his buyout), getting a rotation player is a good score.

Sure the Suns overhyped him, but I’m not sure why that should reflect upon Dragic. He was a second round pick and that’s the standard to measure him by.

Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.

by rosewood on Jul 23, 2009 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Point Guard as in floor general as in quarterback...

A PG has to be able to RUN THE TEAM. He has to be able to run the offense by getting to the necessary spots. He has to have a solid handle and good court vision. The fact that the Suns have to hide his inability to do these things by having others handle the ball or telling him to not worry about running the offense and just attack is very troubling. Look at Tony Parker, he isn’t a good distributor but he does what he needs to do to lead his team and set the offense up. Goran is a slow thinker, has a questionable handle and can not run a half-court offense (even the run n gun Suns have to run plays sometimes) – those were his big issues all throughout last season and he showed very little improvement in any of those areas while in Vegas. When he has confidence he does make fewer mistakes but confidence does not make up for his lack of the fundamental skills necessary to be a solid PG – even a backup only expected to play 15 min a night. Until he shows the ability to run the team like a PG should run a team (even off of the bench) I will continue to be hard on him. I’m sorry I just don’t trust a “PG” that handles the ball like a PF and struggles setting up the offense.

by watdogg10 on Jul 23, 2009 12:36 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tony Parker again?

At what point though, do you acknowledge he’s a 2nd round pick and start treating him as such instead of comparing him to Tony Parker, Steve Nash or other starters? Rosewood makes the excellent point that the bar isn’t TP, but it’s more like a Jordan Farmar or Bassy?

And I disagree that he has to run the team. What he has to do is give Steve Nash’s back a rest for 15 minutes a game, and along with the other 4 guys on the floor, not make a mess of whatever lead the starters have or haven’t put together in their time on the floor. If that means giving up the ball on the occasional possession, I don’t see how that’s an issue. That’s a coach playing to his team’s strengths.

Should be working on his ability to guide the offense? Absolutely. But considering that whether he was or wasn’t on the floor, the Summer Suns weren’t running much of an offense (one thing we probably didn’t hit enough was the apparent lack of coaching of this squad), I can’t see how that really was the forum to judge his ability to do so. The only place he’s going to be able to demonstrate notable improvement is during the regular season after a full camp under (hopefully) the same coach, with the same players, that’s going to take him all the way through this season. Remember, he had to wildly different people in different systems (one of whom opted to rarely play him) in his rookie campaign. The only cure for what “ails” Goran is the same thing Phoenix Stan is prescribing for Robin Lopez: minutes.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 23, 2009 1:04 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Handle

it’s funny you keep bringing this up and I know you’ve got far more experience actually playing the game but I haven’t heard it from anyone else.

I agree that he struggles with confidence and leadership and hope that at best more time will help with that cultural change.

His court vision though is fantastic. I think he’s already a better passer then LB who took many years to progress to where he is now. Mike is right about running the offense in Vegas. He was playing with jokers and clowns who had no time to work together. Yes, the team asked (almost had to force) him to be more aggressive looking for his shot but that’s how it goes in Vegas. It’s a guard scoring dominated league. Flynn. Jennings. Curry. They all were like that there. If anything in the first two games Goran tried to hard to get his team mates involved.

Besides, PG’s in the NBA that can’t score aren’t effective. Teams have to respect your shot and your ability to put the ball on the floor and drive and if nothing else Goran demonstrated that. He can create offense by beating his man and drawing help and finding the open player. He can’t finish as well as he needs to yet and he can’t finish at all going right but lets see how he does over time.

He’s an investment. There’s risk. There’s upside. I certainly don’t think its time to sell him short.

Btw- I admit to a bias b/c he is a really good kid and works hard. I want to see him succeed which is exactly how I feel about Tucker. Those are guys that I can personally root for as opposed to…well, some other players who I won’t name

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 23, 2009 1:13 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody else brought up Parker...

He just worked in my statement that he runs the team without being a pass-first PG. Yes he was a second round pick but we’re paying him as if he were a first-rounder (with a 4 year instead of a 3 year contract). As for the Summer League team…wasn’t it pretty much the consensus that Zabian Dowdell was better than Dragic at running a team but that Dragic had more physical gifts? I heard that from more than one person.

As for your point Stan, I’m not saying he shouldn’t look to score. I’m saying that you can look to score while still running a team. It just seems like everyone here is dead set on making excuses for the kid – whether he was picked in the 2nd round, is on the floor with 4 other guys, is in culture shock – the point is the kid is getting paid $2 million dollars a year to play backup PG, floor general, quarterback, coach on the floor whatever you want to call it in the NBA and he is not an NBA caliber player. Maybe he’ll become one…maybe he’ll become the greatest thing to ever happen to the game of basketball and if he does that’s great and I’m happy. I’m simply saying that since I started Cut Goran Dragic a little under a year ago I still have not seen anything that tells me he is the best possible option for the Suns backup PG right now. As for the issue of his handle – he has a high dribble and he often times uses his body as a shield when he should be keeping the ball forward and pushing through to his spot. This causes him to get stuck and have to back it out whereas Dowdell (you bring up the fact that the team was thrown together, remember Dragic had more time with more of his teammates than Dowdell did) would keep the ball in front and get to the spots he needed to to run the offense. Go back and rewatch the difference between the two as they would try to run the offense – watch how Dowdell handles the rock as opposed to Dragic and watch the difference in how they get to where they’re going.

It may seem harsh but I’m not about to give the kid a pass. He should still be in Europe or down in the D-League. D after all stands for Development and that is what you guys are saying the kid needs…to develop.

by watdogg10 on Jul 23, 2009 2:26 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

D

we certainly agree on that. He was scheduled to go to Iowa last year around New Years. He got the flu. His parents came for a little visit and then for some reason he was never sent. I don’t know why and agree that he could have benefited from his time D’ing up

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 23, 2009 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think

Dragic has to be “the best possible backup PG.” And if every player that needed to develop was in the D-League we’d only have a 15 team NBA.

He’s a backup PG. He’s supposed to kind of suck. That’s why backups don’t start. Plus, in today’s NBA the only thing you need to do to play a particular position is be able to guard the other guy i.e. if you play SF you need to be able to defend SFs. But as far as what/how you contribute offensively, that varies tremendously by team. I don’t think Derek Fisher, Steve Blake, Mo Wiliams, or Monta Ellis “quarterback” their teams. They’re all solid or even good players but each one of them defer to another player or players to run the offense (Fisher/Odom or Bryant; Blake/Roy; Williams/Lebron; Ellis/Jackson or whatever Don Nelson is in the mood for).

So you say everyone is dead set on making excuses for Goran, but I think you’re dead set on defining his success in one particular way and if he fails to succeed in that way you say he’s failed, which is quite frankly a false argument.

If a second round pick can become a rotation player in the NBA, he’s a success. The vast majority of second round picks never get a second (or even a first) contract, so one that not only sticks but gets in the rotation is great, great pick. And if he’s playing PG doing that then he is, by definition, an NBA point guard.

Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.

by rosewood on Jul 23, 2009 4:48 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am disappointed

that response did not include the phase “ipso facto” somewhere in it…

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 23, 2009 6:01 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad

I’ll rephrase:

“And if he’s playing PG for 15 mpg he is, ipso facto, an NBA point guard. Also, if he fails to properly record his security interest with the Secretary of State within 20 days, it will remain unperfected.”

I’m not sure if that second part is applicable.

Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.

by rosewood on Jul 23, 2009 6:23 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look...

Up to this point the argument is based completely on what we’ve seen and our ability to analyze it. To this point he has done nothing of importance (whoever said he was a top 10 PG in the second half of last season – in his last 5 games of the season he averaged 20 minutes with 4 assists, 2 turnovers (a 2 – 1 ratio for you math nerds) and 7 points…pretty sure you can find 10 PGs better than that) – my projection is that this will continue and apparently everybody else’s is that he will transform into the second coming of I don’t even know who.

I just think he has too much to improve on to become a 15 MPG PG (even if they play him 15 minutes a game doesn’t necessarily mean he deserves the minutes). He has a questionable handle, poor court vision (the fact that he is good at driving and kicking does not necessarily mean he has good court vision) and he needs to learn to run the offense (whether it’s running the offense the way the guys you mentioned above do – by being in the right spots at the right time and allowing others to do the handling or learning to get to the appropriate spots as the primary ball handler). That being said, I’m currently working on a post where I take the current (known) Suns roster and lay out what I think each player should work on and what drills I would recommend.

by watdogg10 on Jul 24, 2009 11:02 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

dont recommend any drills

you are not their coach and no ones going to perform the drills you set up for them

by cap space on Jul 24, 2009 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

with that mentality

none of us should be giving any suggestions because chances are, nobody in the suns organization is going to heed our advice

watdogg, im curious to see what sort of drills you’d recommend for each player. especially right now when suns/nba news so sooo friggin slow.

by yanyanman2 on Jul 25, 2009 2:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

just for clarification,

i meant that i think hypothetical suggestions and stuff are really good

by yanyanman2 on Jul 25, 2009 2:01 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

This might be the funniest comment I've ever seen

And we’re not GMs, capologists, coaches, psychologists, or fortune tellers, but that doesn’t stop us from suggesting trades, analyzing players or speculating on the future of the franchise. It’s what we do. We’re serious fans.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 25, 2009 1:32 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's RE: cap space

If I wasn’t clear. Please recommend drills.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 25, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking

of coming up with a series of blog posting/commenting drills as well

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 25, 2009 3:41 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's a good thing you draw funny pictures!

Just kidding.

Actually, here’s a link to a picture of my boy Goran where I’m obviously not paying attention (that’s me in the white shirt in the second row of the press between the laptop and the monitor). Pretty indicative of how I watched all the summer league games, so feel free to disagree.

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 22, 2009 9:02 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

statistically he was a top 10 point guard during the end part of the season.

He was very very good from February to the end of the season. I do think it was partly based on a crazy shooting hot streak from 3 point land though. However, he has the potential to be a strong PG in the NBA and from everything I hear about him he has a heck of a drive and passion to get there.

He showed not only flashes but stretches lasting multiple games just how good he could become. He just seems to be improving in every non-leadership category very quickly and I believe its because of his work ethic.

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 12:24 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont think the assessment of Clark is good… he played pretty hard one knock i had on him is he just took to many outside shots and i think he’s out of shape which limits some of what you do.Is he a big time scorer?? No….but he locked up blake griffin picked him twice on the perimeter and blocked his shots….looking at our roster he could probably be our second best defender right now..But one thing i did notice is he struggled with pick and roll defense but he has solid on ball defense….I dont see the Diaw or Marion comparisons..He has a lil bit of both in his game but plays completely different… If he’s in shape he’s better than Amundson and Dudley to me right now

by Lebrontophx2010 on Jul 22, 2009 7:19 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Let remember that Blake

had played a lot of hard minutes by that point and I believe it was their 3rd game in a row. He also hurt his shoulder in a previous game (I was at that game – I think it was against Thabeet) and is now being held out for 4 weeks.

Just saying that “shutting down Blake” in that final game might be too high of praise for young Clark

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 23, 2009 12:03 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Mike, I just wanted to gift you a little photographic memory – I was the guy sitting with you and Wayne during the game against Memphis. One of those “memorable dunks” you talked about above:

I used to be a c+x kind of guy, but nowadays I just go nuts with my z. - LatinD
Retire Bowen's #12!

by Tim C. on Jul 22, 2009 8:01 PM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Rikkido!

It was great meeting you!

by Mike Lisboa on Jul 22, 2009 8:43 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

great info you guys

I dont know how I would get by up here in North Dakota without daily suns info! Thanks again!

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 12:31 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

Let’s get him season tickets.

Blogging at RidiculousUpside, where we converse with recently fired mascots.

by Scott Schroeder on Jul 23, 2009 12:16 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!

Mr. dontTradeAaronNelson meet fellow NoDakian, proprietery of the ridiculously popular Ridiculous Upside and newly minted ruler of the NoDak Wizards of the NBADL D-league

by Phoenix Stan on Jul 23, 2009 12:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

love the website Scott!

I work and go to school up at UND so its tough to commit a trip to Bismark very often. I am determined however, to see at least 1 wizards game this year.

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 10:12 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

no ive never seen them play but always wanted to...

I was contemplating it when I believe Tucker( maybe strawberry) was on D-league and they were playing the wiz but couldn’t find anyone interested in traveling to go see it.

everybody here loves the twins, vikings,and NDSU basketball so its nice to have a place to go talk NBA with fans.

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 1:18 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

ND. You don’t meet too many folks from up there, but half my family lives up on a res in ND. And they’re all basketball junkies. I’ve never understood why.

Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.

by rosewood on Jul 23, 2009 1:42 AM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I live in Brazil,

so Leandrinho here is like our Michael Jordan.

by Diego Queiroz on Jul 23, 2009 8:33 AM MDT reply actions   0 recs

Brazil!

So is barbosa the reason your a suns fan?Do fans in Brazil root for the suns more then say the Cavs or Nuggets ( because of Varejao, Nene)?

And dint barbosa take a lot of heat in local media for his 2004 Olympic qualifier?

by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Jul 23, 2009 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Phoenix for no reason in particular.

I started watching NBA in 2003 because I started playing hoops. I don’t know why I choose the Suns as my favorite, but I think it’s because I really liked Starbury back then. I really don’t know about the Suns-Nuggets-Cavs comparison, but I do know that all three of them (LB, Varejao and Nene) took some heat because the didn’t (don’t) play for the National Team.

What about Pavlovic? I really like his game. If he didn’t earn that much money, I think he could crack the rotation.

by Diego Queiroz on Jul 24, 2009 1:33 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

AGREED

but the fact that jrich cant create and lb can do some combo guard pretty much killsthat as long as jrich is here, right?

by yanyanman2 on Jul 24, 2009 1:05 PM MDT up reply actions   0 recs

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