Daily Links: Summer time blues...

by Seth Pollack on Jul 29, 2009 12:56 PM MST in Phoenix Suns: Daily Links

KTAR.com - Suns to play pre-season game in Vancouver
Suicide lines: Nash's competitive zeal - Ball Don't ... - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
Yup
NBA.com: Nash says Shaq will fit right in with LeBron
One star who has played with Shaquille O'Neal thinks he'll fit in just fine with LeBron James.
The Suns’ offseason moves are a lot like wedding gifts Fanster.com
Fanster's Greg Esposito compares the Suns' off-season moves to his recent wedding booty.
Who is greatest Suns player of all-time? | eastvalleytribune.com
Who do YOU think is the greatest Suns player of all-time?
One Man’s Journey to the NBA – Rafu Shimpo
A profile of the Summer Suns' Japanese addition Takuya Kawamura.
Shooting - the breeze - with Diana Taurasi - UCONN | Women's Basketball
azcentral.com blogs - Coro's Suns dish: Preseason hype
Coro's Suns dish: Piece by piece, the Suns preseason schedule has come out early. From one official or unofficial source or another, here is an idea of what the exhibition slate might look like when it is announced.
WNBA: Mercury puts end to Sun win streak - Norwich, CT - Norwich Bulletin
Another big win for the home team. Cappie had a season high 29 points despite tempting fate by cutting all her hair off before the game. Who makes such a drastic change when they are playing well? Seem risky to me but I guess the same superstitious rules don't apply to women basketball players. Adding to the Mercury win were losses suffered by the Storm and Lynx which give Phoenix a 2.5 game lead.
Cappie was great. Taurasi was solid and back up point guard Ketia Swanier continues to impress as she develops more confidence with her offensive game and finds ways to get involved on the glass. In fact over the last couple of games it seems that the Mercury back court has been doing a better job help on the boards and the defensive rotations feel like they are getting better.

Tweet Comment 15 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Dan Bickley

Unless he is traded, he will join the fraternity of impact players who never won a title, a list that includes Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton and Patrick Ewing. That notoriety will follow him for the rest of his life, and on some level, it has to sting

Can we get a little more dramatic? What’s the point, Dan? Really. You make it sound like he killed a man, “that notoriety will follow him for the rest of his life.” Nash made it pretty clear what motivates him, and while I’m sure a championship would have been nice, it’s not the end all be all for this guy. Is that really so hard to believe?

by Wil Cantrell on Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM MST reply actions

i don't like bickley, anyway.

but, i wonder if he was just trying to light a fire under nash’s ass.

by Trevor Paxton on Jul 30, 2009 12:49 AM MST up reply actions

I thought Bickley

was pretty soft in that article actually….what did he really say?

That “some” people question Nash’s competitive desire and that Nash won’t win a ring?

Blogging Suns Basketball

by Seth Pollack on Jul 30, 2009 7:29 AM MST up reply actions

i didn't say he was as dramatic as wil said he was.

but, he was definitely trying to prove a point: that for as much good as steve nash brings to the table, it doesn’t appear that he is (or ever will be) hungry enough for a ring.

“…he will join the fraternity of impact players who never won a title, a list that includes Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton and Patrick Ewing. That notoriety will follow him for the rest of his life, and on some level, it has to sting.”

while those players are all very, very talented, and all impacted the game of basketball forever, it seems bickley is trying to motivate nash to get off his “love and happiness…and chemistry” bit. just one perspective.

by Trevor Paxton on Jul 30, 2009 10:58 AM MST up reply actions

The Greatest?

I think Shawn Marion’s name should be among that list. We can argue all day long and throw up stats, but I think we can make a good case that Shawn was a big reason we had the success we did in the D’Antoni era.

I know Suns fans like the old schoolers like Adams and Van Arsdale, but really, can you compare their talent and athleticism to today’s players? HMMM interesting idea.

by Wil Cantrell on Jul 29, 2009 5:30 PM MST reply actions

Except, of course, that Trix is nothing more than one of the top 10 second bananas of all time.

You only have to look at his play before Nash returned, and after leaving Phoenix to see just how much of a difference playing with Nash made to his game. Traded three times in 18 months ??

Still, when playing with Nash, and being the recipient of his on-court decision making, and complementing him on both ends of the court, Trix was an astonishingly good player. Close to MVP level play in 05-06, on that magical team.

He’s not close to being as good, without teammates to play off. With an individualistic player, like Wade, Trix’s game suffered.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 29, 2009 8:24 PM MST up reply actions

A shell of Scottie Pippen?

Perhaps Riley was right to compare Wade and Marion to Jordan and Pippen. They are both inferior but may be, from a relative standpoint, in the same ratio. maybe an engineer can help here:

(Jordan/Pippen) = (Wade/Marion)??? would Pippen have to = Wade to make this work?

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 29, 2009 9:39 PM MST up reply actions

That's not what I meant....

Scottie, imho, had more tools, basketball wise than Jordan. Bigger wingspan, a slightly better passer, a better outside shot, and he was a much better defender. Technically, he had a complete game, and was MVP caliber the year Jordan took off.

His big weakness, though, was a huge lack of heart, and a tendency to choke/spaz in critical situations. Jordan, otoh, had enough testicular fortitude, force of personality, and will to win to pull Scottie along, which is why Scottie has 6 rings, but couldn’t get the 7th with Portland.

Marion, otoh, has some serious weaknesses in his game, such as being a poor passer, and an inability to make his own shot.

That stuff doesn’t matter so much when you have a Nash, because he is looking and able to get a player the ball in the right place, and give him an opportunity to make the right shot. Wade, otoh, isn’t close to being that aware of his teammates or that kind of playmaker, so Marion’s shot opportunities in Miami were of a much lower quality than in Phoenix.

In addition, his ability to communicate with Nash, meant that he could cover for Nash defensively, when Steve tried to funnel players into various spots on the court, or was beaten off the dribble.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 29, 2009 10:03 PM MST reply actions

so

Wade doesn’t pass as well as Jordan and Marion can’t create his own shot as well as Marion?

Lawyers shouldn’t talk about ratios and math

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 29, 2009 10:23 PM MST up reply actions

oops -- Marion can't create his own shot as well as Pippen

Mmmmm ... Guinness

by JSun on Jul 29, 2009 10:23 PM MST up reply actions

It's not a criticism of Wade, btw..

Jordan didn’t need to pass to Pippen, since Pippen essentially played point-forward for the championship Bulls teams.

Anyway, I was just making an observation that some player combinations work much better than others, and trying to explain why.

Most people would say (and I’m not one of them, btw) that Wade is a better player than Nash, so you’d think that Trix’s game would also have risen when he moved to Miami. That clearly wasn’t the case, overall, despite small improvements in some statistical categories. In particular, Marion’s fg% dropped dramatically, and things got worse when he moved to Toronto.

I was just trying to explain why that happened.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 29, 2009 11:46 PM MST up reply actions

By taking the decision about Trix's shot, out of Trix's hands....

Nash was able to make Trix a better player, since for the most part, Nash only ever gave him the ball in high percentage situations.

Wade’s decision making process, otoh, is much less evolved than Nash’s, but he overcomes that through greater athleticism, and by the fact that he is the overwhelmingly main scoring option for Miami.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 29, 2009 11:52 PM MST up reply actions

I guess my point is this: why does a so called “greatest player” have to be a guy who creates his own shots or runs the time, etc? Why can’t he be a quality all around guy? It’s pretty clear that Marion couldn’t be “the man.” And he did have Nash to help him out. What I was referring to was all around play. He could score (with help), he rebounded, he played defense, he could pass, and he was there in crunch time. The numbers are comparable to some of the other individuals on that list, the longevity is there as are the wins for the team when he was here. So, for example, why is Alvin Adams deserving consideration but not Marion?

I guess the whole thing is kind of arbitrary, like the “50 Greatest NBA Players” they did some years back which I still fully don’t understand. Oh, and wasn’t Pippen part of that?

by Wil Cantrell on Jul 30, 2009 6:33 AM MST up reply actions

I guess I wasn't clear...

I don’t view Marion’s failure to win a ring as failure, at all, and he remains one of my favorite all time players.

But, I was trying to make the point that because of his limitations, and his incomplete game, he remains inherently incapable of leading a team to a title or otherwise.

Moreover, Marion’s game, in particular, depends strongly on his ability to play off other players in order for him to be good/great, specifically to complement players such as Nash. As was proven in Miami and Toronto, Trix’s game declines dramatically without that kind of teammate.

A great player, however, regardless of how he contributes, has to be able to dominate by himself. That applies to Nash, Shaq, Jordan, Rodman, Bill Russell and others. Trix, imho, shouldn’t be judged by that standard.

Consequently, I felt you were being harsh on Trix, and that he needed to be given some slack for his failures, but also less credit for his successes, dependent as they are on other players.

Pippen, otoh, had all the tools he needed to be great, except for the most important one, which is mental toughness. I’d bet that if the top 50 players list were redrawn today, Pippen’s name might not even make the list.

But as Jordan’s wingman, he was incomparable. Without Jordan, he was a choker and a flake.

"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".

by Pliny the Elder on Jul 30, 2009 9:24 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs