Hypothetical 3-team trade (Hinrich-JRich-Boozer)
Ok, the offseason is long and even I'm falling for this. My proposed trade involves Suns sending JRich to the Jazz, Boozer going to the Bulls and us getting Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas.
Here's how that trade looks on ESPN's Trade Machine:
I'll explain this trade in more detail after the jump.
Why the Jazz would want to do it: It's well known that the Jazz is looking to move Boozer. JRich may not be Jerry Sloan's favourite type of player but he's a talented swingman who can bring another dimension to their offense. Currently, the only players on the Jazz who can shoot the 3 are Okur and Korver.
After what's been publicized about the Jazz and Boozer parting ways, it's almost inevitable that he has to be moved, and the Jazz would be hard pressed to get a player of JRich's caliber in any Boozer deal.
Why the Jazz wouldn't want to do it: Money money money. Boozer for JRich doesn't give them any cap relief. They actually add $1M to this year's already-crazy payroll. Also, since JRich's contract runs a year longer than Boozer's, that adds $14.4M to their 2010-2011 payroll, which will take them past next year's tax line already even if they don't add any more contracts.
But if they decide to go San Antonio (which could be the case, as they had the guts to match for Millsap), this is a trade that can give them more firepower and keep up with the haves of the league.
Why the Bulls would want to do it: Derrick Rose is obviously their point guard of the future (and present), and they would not want Hinrich riding the pine and making $9M per just like how we (or Kerr) didn't want Diaw making $9M per in a backup role. Given that the Bulls had brought back Lindsey Hunter and signed Pargo (and they have Salmons who can handle the ball part-time and play some SG), Hinrich is even more expandable. From all indication they almost traded him to the Blazers in July. And Boozer is obviously a low post scoring threat that they have been coveting since 1967.
Doing this trade, they essentially upgrade Tyrus Thomas to Boozer (both expirings), at the "cost" of losing Hinrich's services and contract ($9.5M this season, $9M in 10-11, $8M in 11-12). It would also get Bulls a BOATLOAD of cap space in the summer of 2010, which they can use to re-sign Boozer plus another max contract player.
Moreover, the Bulls payroll currently stands at $69M this season, which is dangerously close to the tax line. This trade would shave about $2M off that and give them some wiggle room. They can use that to re-sign another half-decent player, or just sign some vet-min 13th man and keep the rest in their pockets.
Why the Bulls wouldn't want to do it: One may argue that Thomas and Hinrich is a lot of talent to give away for Boozer, the betrayal skullhead Duke guy who can be a locker room cancer and has a 65% chance of breaking his leg within 2 months into the season. But I really think that (and I'm trying to be objective here) the Bulls are a more balanced and complete team after this trade. And it gives them a shot at DWade the next summer. To me, the good seems to outweigh the bad.
Why the Suns would want to do it: If we can turn JRich into Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas, I'd totally be doing backflips. First of all, let's all be honest that Dragic isn't ready to play 15-18mins every night. And it's also inevitable that Nash will have to sit out 10 or so games due to injuries and what not. LB is great but he really isn't a full-time PG material. Hinrich, however, is a natural PG. He makes his 3's (41% last season, 38% career) and defends 2.5 positions. In the immortal Bulls-Celtics series, he turned out to be their best defender on Paul Pierce. He's like Raja Bell with good PG skills.
After the trade, Hinrich, Nash and LB can just share the backcourt minutes, each getting around 32mpg. In the event of any of them getting injured, the other two can start together and play 40-ish minutes, with Goran/Tucker/Grant Hill pitching in. We may have problems against big backcourts with that, but it's not like we have a solution for that now.
As for Thomas, he's easily more talented than any of our frontcourt players who doesn't have an apostrophe in his first name. Plus, he's actually already a better defender than Amar'e right now. And he's an expiring contract so if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, we're not stuck with him.
Also, this trade takes us to 13 guys under contract, and thus will save about 14 hours of BSotS's members' time arguing about whom should we sign for the 13th spot.
Why the Suns wouldn't want to do it: The trade increases our payroll by $0.9M. But since we now only have 12 guys and need to fill another roster spot anyway, it's not like we could have saved all of that $0.9M.
Also, Hinrich's contract runs a year longer than JRich's. But it's 2012 we're talking about so let's not worry about it now. You may also argue that Tyrus Thomas isn't a model kid but it's not like he had 2 DUIs last season.
Finally, Goran and Earl Clark will see their minutes decrease after this trade. But the players we're bringing in are relatively young and are genuinely better players. So undermining our "own" young players should not be a concern.
So that's my case. What do y'all think about this?
61 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Well....
I think you made a very strong case. Well put together. A model for what trade speculation/idea posts should look like.
As for the trade itself…I’m not really sure. The upside as you laid out is interesting but I don’t like the idea of having Heinrich riding the pine for all those years behind Nash for $9m either. Sure – he and Nash could play together at times but mostly you lose a lot of back court offense for better back court defense and one year of Tyrus who if nothing else would be happy to play in Phx with his pal Cappie Pondexter.
So…over all…hmmm…how about Salmons instead of Kirk? I think I like that better
Blogging Suns Basketball
Substituting Salmons for Kinrich
the trade still works, but since Salmons makes less ($6.4M next season), Chicago’s payroll actually goes up after the trade, into tax territory, with a roster spot to fill.
Bulls can do Salmons + Jerome James ($6.6M expiring) to stay below the tax. But then it’d be a salary dump for us. Although Salmons can do 80% of what JRich can, he isn’t going to be happy being the 3rd/4th option.
Interestingly, ESPN’s trade machine and hoopshype has different salary #s for Salmons…
I think I like Hinrich enough to look past his contract, and I don’t think we lose THAT much offsense. For every shot JRich takes, there’s one less shot for Nash/Amare/Grant Hill/LB/… who are all no less efficient scorers than JRich himself. Hinrich can avg 12-14ppg just as a spot up shooter like Raja did. And having another playmaker on the court is what made us dangerous when we had Diaw. JRich avged 2 assists per game last season. In a sense he’s as black as a hole Shaq was on offense.
If we really want offense in the backcourt, we can just start LB at the 2. He can’t dunk and rebound like JRich but he can do everything else. I actually think that, against some teams, we can play Nash, LB and Hinrich together in stretches like the Bulls went Rose-Gordon-Hinrich-Salmons-Brad Miller last season.
And how do you know Cappie will stay in Phx during the WNBA offseason? I thought most of them go to the Europe and make some extra dough. But maybe Tyrus can keep her here :)
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 98 and -16 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
I had the impression that posting intelligent trade ideas without substantiation from a source was discouraged.
i thought it was just unintelligent trades...
without substantiation from a source.
by Trevor Paxton on Aug 11, 2009 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions
Unless it’s something obviously ridiculous, whether a trade is unintelligent is a judgment call by the moderators, isn’t it. Two or three weeks ago, I posted a trade idea that just happened to involve Jason Richardson. I can’t remember whom for—I’m sure it was a forward—but it must have been a pretty stupid idea, because it mysteriously disappeared within a few hours.
Other than that I’ve always thought Kirk Hinrich was good, I have no comment on this trade, and if I did, would not venture it.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 11, 2009 9:55 PM MDT up reply actions
Did you...
take an hour or two looking up cap numbers, and end up writing like 1000 words analysing the proposed trade for each team involved?
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
I think I come out looking worse whichever way I answer that; but I probably didn’t take an hour. As for length…I’m a compulsive writer.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 11, 2009 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions
If you mean my threads: yup, and can’t see why I would post more.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 12, 2009 10:58 AM MDT up reply actions
Solution!
Two or three weeks ago, I posted a trade idea that just happened to involve Jason Richardson. I can’t remember whom for—I’m sure it was a forward—but it must have been a pretty stupid idea, because it mysteriously disappeared within a few hours.
then:
I thought you were pulling your own stories.
then:
If you mean my threads: yup, and can’t see why I would post more.
That should solve the mystery, no?
Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.
I wasn’t using misleading language. I didn’t delete the trade idea; it disappeared. So no, it doesn’t solve anything.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 12, 2009 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions
I kind of recall it now
Is the trade idea in question the one that sends JRich to Houston for T-Mac?
According to Ric Bucher early this summer we was trying to work on a deal that sent J-rich to houston for T-Mac but they couldnt get the numbers to match
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 12, 2009 6:16 PM MDT up reply actions
That's interesting...
We could do it only if we still had Ben Wallace’s contract…
But I guess HOU, with the knowledge that Yao won’t play the next season, aren’t looking at immediate upgrades. It’s not like they’re contending with JRich-Ariza-Battier-Brooks-Scola.
Yup, that was the one. Evidently, my trade ideas are no more stupid than the Phoenix Suns’ trade ideas. I wonder if the numbers would come within matching range if Pavlovic were thrown in (once he can be).
by lonesomepoint on Aug 12, 2009 10:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Ok ok...
We get it lonesomepoint, You are a bit upset about getting tagged as a frequent poster. I dont think anyone meant that you should stop or pull your posts, I think we were jsut startled by your passion. Now, take the hanky away from your nose, pony up and stop whining.
Go read a book!
The problem is
you posted your idea after Wallace was bought out. And we’d NEVER do Pavlovic + JRich for TMac even if the #s allowed, because we’d be giving them 14.8M guaranteed and take back 23.2M. Take that difference and multiply it by 2, you’re looking at 16.8M. It makes zero sense to pay 16,8M extra this season just to turn a healthy shooting guard into a microfrature patient shooting guard. JRich doesn’t even cost us that much in 10-11.
Do you get it?
Ok ok...
We get it lonesomepoint, You are a bit upset about getting tagged as a frequent poster. I dont think anyone meant that you should stop or pull your posts, I think we were jsut startled by your passion. Now, take the hanky away from your nose, pony up and stop whining.
Go read a book!
Why don’t you stop double posting first? And then go back to your comic book store.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 13, 2009 10:19 AM MDT up reply actions
i actually enjoy new posts they get me thru my work shifts..so boooored..dmn i cant wait til basketball or football start November December is the best you got both sports..I cant wait to hear Mark Jackson set off the “Momma there goes that man” going into commercial..
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 13, 2009 10:56 AM MDT up reply actions
Lol
I double posted on purpose. I figured with all your bitching you needed a reminder. And what does the comic store thing even mean? I dont get it? Enlighten me.
Go read a book!
[sigh] I can only elaborate so much without running afoul of the new anti-flaming warning that was established today after I insulted a moderator in response to his insulting me first. (You know—it’s a moderator’s prerogative to insult lesser members. Resistance would probably constitute “bitching,” eh?) But it’s an allusion to the Simpsons character Comic Book Guy.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 13, 2009 6:15 PM MDT up reply actions
If this site is so horrible and you are so oppressed, then why do you persist in coming back to keep crying? You are only destroying any respect that we might have had for you.
by egp the great on Aug 13, 2009 7:26 PM MDT up reply actions
That’s okay, I wasn’t looking for respect from pixels.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 13, 2009 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions
And besides, it is the humans you are angry at anyway, not the computer itself.
by egp the great on Aug 13, 2009 10:00 PM MDT up reply actions
If you think you're being oppressed
just report it to the BSOS Ministry of Truth; you know Flag@Br … oh, I’ve posted that joke before? (twice?)
Although I appreciate any reference to The Simpsons, the Comic Book Store Guy would never post on a sports blog. Milhouse might, though.
Mmmmm ... Guinness
I personally
a joke is old until someone tells you to stop.
That may not be good advice.
Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.
Wow.
I meant to say
“I personally think that a joke isn’t old until someone tells you to stop.”
but came out with:
“I personally a joke is old until someone tells you to stop.”
Writing Fail.
Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.
Ministry of Truth? Is that really feasible when the BSOS Ministry of Love appears to be after me? Really…I have always known that the grave is there and is waiting for me.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 14, 2009 12:49 PM MDT up reply actions
hey...
Im not trying to be mean. I want you to stick around and post and bring up ideas. Its important for the community. I’m just a little tired of the “other” tongue in cheek stuff. But its cool. As for the comic book store thing….I think i get it now. Witty. I wish I watched more simpsons…love that show.
Go read a book!
Nah, I really shouldn’t start any more threads. When the moderator takes it on himself to call them all stupid out of hand, it’s not a good sign for me or for this website. I should let my interest slowly peter out until I go away and we all forget I was here.
As for my Comic Book Guy reference: I’m not sure I’d call it witty, but consider CBG’s typical attitude and behavior.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 14, 2009 12:58 PM MDT up reply actions
Dislike.
When fictionally asked to comment on the state of the Phoenix Suns, GM Steve Kerr said, "Arizona."
by hookedonphoenix on Aug 11, 2009 9:12 PM MDT up reply actions
How about Jerome James instead of Kirk?
Big expiring contract, which, if you don’t mind, we need to clear space for 2010.
When fictionally asked to comment on the state of the Phoenix Suns, GM Steve Kerr said, "Arizona."
by hookedonphoenix on Aug 11, 2009 8:49 PM MDT reply actions
slash why not straight up J-Rich for J. James/Thomas?
Thomas is the prize, James is the expiring contract, and the bulls need a scorer, seeing as John Salmons is not a shooting guard and Luol Deng isn’t either.
When fictionally asked to comment on the state of the Phoenix Suns, GM Steve Kerr said, "Arizona."
by hookedonphoenix on Aug 11, 2009 8:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Three things
1) The Bulls doesn’t need another freaking guard. Rose-Hinrich-Pargo-Hunter. And Salmons CAN play the 2. He can even play some spot duty 1.
2) This puts the Bulls over the tax, with one roster spot to fill
3) We’d be REALLY counting on Dragic and Tucker if we do that. This IMO is a horrible trade for the Suns.
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
And even after we dump JRich's contract
we’ll have cap space in 2010 only if Amar’e opts out as well, and we don’t resign him. Then the only players under contract are Nash, Grant Hill (both 37), LB and the other kids. Will LeBron be killing himself to come and play on that team?
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
Lebron
If we are willing to go over the cap i dont see why he or anyone else would not be interested..Great system, good fan base and a solid core with Steve Nash Grant Hill Amare Barbosa Frye and Earl Clark who if he gets on the floor will surprise people you add a solid big that team can be championship worthy…
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 11, 2009 10:13 PM MDT up reply actions
That’s a thought, but even if it did clear space, I think that if the team took on the contract of such a deadweight player, fans would come after Steve Kerr with pitchforks.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 14, 2009 1:01 PM MDT up reply actions
hell i’d even throw in Pavlovic after August 26 he can be traded with a player
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 11, 2009 9:29 PM MDT reply actions
Pavlovic, for what?
If we trade pavlovic, that means we’re taking on extra dollars. We’re talking about $3-4M here, which is $6-8M ‘cause we’re already over the tax. Don’t see that happening.
Pavlovic is kept to be cut.
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
Pavlovic is kept to explore a possible sign and trade
by hcblankscreen on Aug 12, 2009 12:25 AM MDT up reply actions
There would be a sign and trade only if
1. There’s a player that makes ~$4M- 5M joining us.
2. We’re willing to pay $6-8M extra this year (luxury tax included) to get him.
You do these moves only if you’re a contender. It doesn’t make sense to spend $8M just so we win 51 games instead of 48.
Moreover, unless that player we get in the above sign-and-trade signs a 1yr deal, we’d be sniffing at next year’s luxury tax threshold already, unless Amar’e opts out.
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
its hard to argue that if we get both those players in this trade that we couldnt be very competitive we got a backup and a shawn marion type of player
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 11, 2009 9:33 PM MDT reply actions
IMO
Hinrich is a legit starting PG. He avged 16 and 7 when he was healthy. And he’s a terrific defender. He’s the best PG you can get on the market.
I do this trade to get Hinrich. Thomas to me is just a nice throw in. He has a lot of upside but isn’t close to being a sure thing.
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
I like Hinrich too. I’m not sure why he was not only replaced by Derrick Rose but seemingly not coveted in many trade proposals this summer.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 11, 2009 10:20 PM MDT up reply actions
This trade benefits everybody but utah why would they do it..i cant name their starting 2 guard so its a upgrade but why do it..If not i wouldnt mind keeping j-rich i just dont like that we went to him early to get him going..
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 11, 2009 10:08 PM MDT reply actions
Ronnie Brewer is their starting 2
who actually is a great defender and avged about 10ppg last season. But he has no 3pt range and his FT% is in the 60s I think. They also have Korver who’s a great spot-up shooter but can’t really create his own shot.
IMO basketballwise Boozer for JRich is a good trade for Utah. The only drawbacks are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. They already have Millsap. Also, people forget that Kirilenko is a natural 4, and was forced to play the 3 only because of Utah’s surplus in frontcourt players.
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
Oh yea..i forgot about Brewer and always thought Kyle Korver would be good in a james Jones role for us..Utah does seem invested in Millsap so yea..but like you said they would be in trouble financially damn if only we had Ben Wallaces contract still this trade would have been possible with a few alterations
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 11, 2009 11:41 PM MDT reply actions
We used to have Eric Piakowski
who was a B+ version of Korver. Mike D couldn’t use him though.
James Jones can’t shoot as well but he’s bigger than Pike and Korver and could defend 3s and some 4s.
According to John Hollinger's analysis,
it's possible to go 94 and -12 with Goran Dragic as your backup PG.
Couldn’t use Piatkowski? Or just didn’t want to?
by lonesomepoint on Aug 12, 2009 10:59 AM MDT up reply actions
For "couldn't use"
I meant “unable to utilize.”
It was weird too because the famous SSOL book actually quoted Mike D saying that he really likes Eric Pike. Then they actually get him in free agency that offseason. Then Mike D keeps him on the bench.
Criticizing the coach in question will make a lot of people furious, so all I’ll say is: he liked Marcus Banks, too.
by lonesomepoint on Aug 12, 2009 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions
we just gotta
give them pavlovic too to relieve their cap, i think its legit once that happens for sure
"Check out progressive stats and the latest Suns news at ifiredterryporter.com
by ifiredterryporter.com on Aug 11, 2009 11:43 PM MDT reply actions
D’antoni the gm sucks..i was always a fan of his brother..I bet you cant say Dan D’Antoni 5 times without laughin..hell i cant
by Lebrontophx2010 on Aug 14, 2009 9:43 AM MDT reply actions

by 




















