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I just can't pretend to be interested in what passes for Suns "news" at this point of the year when there's a playoff run going on
- Just let it have it's own thread: Starting LB - Bright Side Of The Sun
I really can't believe that you guys think that LB should start over JRich...
Let me ask you LB start guys a question. Are you really ready to see JRich and Dragic on the floor together in the second unit?
The real question is will Robin or Channing start and what will the front court rotation look like.
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36 comments
Comments
A caveat on the start LB bench Jrich thing
Perhaps Richardson will show more with a whole season. I have my doubts. I seem to remember him being effective every OTHER game with Golden State.
April 29, 2008 Total Eclipse of the Sun. Is the sky falling?
by Hawk42 on Sep 20, 2009 3:34 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
The START LB movement
is about fans’ appreciation for a sweet player that has risen through the Suns’ ranks. There’s nothing wrong with JRich, he’s a good guy and a very good player, but he’s not done anything to really earn fans’ appreciation and I see no reason for him to place-hold or stunt the growth and development of LB into a superstar. We’ve seen JRich at his best, but we are waiting to see how good LB can be.
Dragic +JRich doesn’t scare me and it’s not like everyone comes off the bench at once. It’s not going to happen.
My secret desire is that we find a taker for JRich, pickup Carlos Arroyo as our backup PG and then fill in holes where we can. Or we keep JRich and pick up Carlos anyway.
As far as Robin vs. Channing, I have no vested interest. Perhaps it will be situational. Both players are young with good potential and they’ll probably split time rather evenly. May the best player win.
by MUST_START_LB!!!!!!!! on Sep 20, 2009 4:33 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand why people think starting LB is so important. What evidence does anyone have that starting a player gives the team a better shot at winning?
If Barbosa proves more productive per minute than Rich, then give him more minutes through out the game. On the same note, if the match up dictates, you could in theory start LB against a smaller 2. But if the 2 is small enough, wouldn’t you want J-Rich posting him up?
In the case of a Grant Hill or an older player like him, it makes sense to keep them in a starting role since once an older player warms up he needs to keep playing otherwise he may stiffen up. But Barbosa is different.
So why does anyone give a crap who starts the game or ends the game, as long as they getting consistent, quality minutes?
by Wil Cantrell on Sep 20, 2009 7:17 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Minutes and match ups. LB is more versatile off the bench b/c he can handle the ball and run the point and more importantly we KNOW that LB can be successful in that role. We don’t know how JRich would respond to losing his starting job.
I also think LB’s game has a lot of holes that get covered up by the role he plays for the Suns. Starting against other team’s starters over an extender period of time would expose those holes. He’s started only 10 or so game over the past few years.
It is interesting to note that his play off FG% drops 5 points which I think is indicative of the holes in his game.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 20, 2009 8:41 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
works both ways, the more people says "Start LB" then a bunch say "No, JRich"
The issue is that LB is a player that does play shockingly better when he starts.
To say starting shouldn’t matter, I agree. To say starting doesn’t matter is patently false.
As with everything, matchups of course, and why rock the boat when the back court seems comfortable in their roles. Works for me.
This season will be even better as long as I'm drinking while watching!
by ZonaFlash on Sep 20, 2009 11:11 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think
the sample size for him starting is too small.
How many times (in lots of different sports) have we seen guys come in for spot duty and do well and then come back to earth after a period of time
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 9:53 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad we may never know then =D
This season will be even better as long as I'm drinking while watching!
by ZonaFlash on Sep 21, 2009 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
only if you
assume no injuries to Nash or JRich
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm already counting on a 2-game suspension for JRich =D
just saying the sample will be too small even with the pinch substitutions.
We’re lucky to have both JRich and Barbosa to fill out our backcourt, so the issue, as you mention, is probably less critical than the hole up front.
I hope Lopez has gone to the Cartwright Summer School for Starting Centers, because we need one.
This season will be even better as long as I'm drinking while watching!
by ZonaFlash on Sep 21, 2009 11:31 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
and for the record
let’s not forget that I was all for trading JRich to the T-wolves this summer and starting LB. I am not anti-LB.
But if you have JRich he needs to start. I also think there’s a good chance that he might benefit the most from not haveing Shaq around
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 1:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping for
career numbers out of JRich this season. with this offense, there’s no reason it can’t be accomplished!
by SunsFTW on Sep 21, 2009 2:19 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
the numbers back up what my eyes see between barbosa and j-rich
barbosa PER= 19.4
J-rich PER = 16.7
Barbosa has much better chemistry with nash then j-rich does. Also if you check out 82 games you can see that opposing SG struggle against barbosa compared to when they face up against j-rich.
also the line up of Nash-Barbosa-Hill-Stoudemire-O’Neal had the highest winning percentage of the line-ups we played last season.
I know numbers are not everything but they certainly back up barbosa drastically.
(82.games.com)
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Sep 20, 2009 4:35 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Robin Lopez vs. Channing Frye is an interesting question
But when you lead off telling me his plans to challenge roger ebert, open a restaurant, lively up himself, wait… no, just the restaurant, as fair as that should be, it clouds my judgment, cuasing me to root for Robin Lopez to earn the starting spot.
NBA athletes are exceptional in their abilities to serve multiple masters. But I wish the off-court distractions could go away in favor of the game.
Frye is talented and more polished than Lopez, but Lopez cannot back up the PF spot. Frye off the bench can backup Lopez or Amar’e, whoever grabs all the personal fouls first. I swear watching the first quarter will be like watching an easter egg hunt, where personal fouls are the easter eggs and the two most excited kids lookin for em are Lopez and Amar’e.
This season will be even better as long as I'm drinking while watching!
by ZonaFlash on Sep 20, 2009 4:45 PM MDT reply actions 0 recs
There are players who are more productive in a starting role (Grant Hill is one of them) and there are players who are comfortable coming off the bench.
JRich has always been a starter. Barbosa has always come off the bench.
I think that things should continue in the same way. Mainly because the players this season are not the same and the style of play will not be the same. Think that Sacq isn´t on the team and the style of play will be faster.
Let’s wait and see if JRich fits this style of play (I think he’ll do well); then, depending on their performance you can consider changing the roles of both players.
by matrix7 on Sep 21, 2009 12:50 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
Estimated playing time for next season:
Nash: 32
JRich: 32
Hill: 27
Stat: 38
Frye: 25
Dragic: 15
Barbosa: 24
Dudley: 17
Amundson: 15
Lopez: 15
Clark: 0
Tucker: 0
Griffin: 0
These last 3, if they play some minute, it will be garbage minutes, 1-2 minutes when the game is resolved.
by matrix7 on Sep 21, 2009 2:08 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
no time for tucker - that's depressing. We need to move him or JRich.
I noticed that 15 min for Dragic meant 7 min/game of 3 guard backcourt. Entirely possible, but I don’t think that will happen so often, so I shuffled the time around according to my own idiosyncratic preferences:
Nash: 34
JRich: 31
Hill: 24
Stat: 40
Frye: 26
Dragic: 0
Barbosa: 31
Dudley: 14
Amundson: 10
Lopez: 20
Clark: 10
Tucker: 0
Griffin: 0
This season will be even better as long as I'm drinking while watching!
by ZonaFlash on Sep 21, 2009 11:49 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, one more thing. Spain wins European basketball championship.
Do you think USA will send a team as powerful as the one that won the Beijing Olympic Games to the next world championships in Turkey?
by matrix7 on Sep 21, 2009 2:16 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
that Spanish
team is tough!
Congrats to Spain on global sporting domination!
Hard to saw what happens next season. Jerry Colangelo is still in charge of Team USA and the players seem to be taking it seriously again.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 9:55 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read
something about slovinia losing to greece, so that means that Dragic’s team goth 4th place?
by SunsFTW on Sep 21, 2009 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Sorry – I got behind on my Slovenian following. 4th is really a great finish for them and they had a ton of injured players
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 11:19 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Team USA could suffer from the 2010 free agency summer
The Mundobasket (World Championship) is considered less important than the olympic tournament, and NBA franchises could prevent their new signed/extended big-dogs (Amare, Kobe, LeBron, Bosh, Wade, Boozer, Roy, Aldridge, Joe Johnson, Oden, Durant, Jeff Green, Rudy Gay, David Lee) from playing internationally, just like Marc Cuban did to Dirk Nowitzki recently.
Either way, I believe the Spanish will be more motivated than ever. Pau Gasol has told he is planning to retire from international competition after the 2010 Mundobasket. Pau was amazing at the 2006 Mundobasket but got injured during the semi-finals win over Argentina and couldn’t participate in the 2006 title game over Greece.
Pau is a part of the Spanish “golden age” of 1979-1980 born basketball players who played together in national competition since youth and became Team Spain’s core in the 2000’s, including: Raptors PG Jose Calderon, ex-Grizzlies SG and Euroleague superstar Juan Carlos Navarro, ex-Jazz PG Raul Lopez, ex-Raptors PF Jorge Garbajosa, Felipe Reyes, Carlos Cabezas, Berni Rodriguez, Sergi Vidal and Alex Mumbru). most players mentioned are expected to retire (like the older Carlos Jimenez did after his matchup with LeBron in Beijing) or play a minor role. I’m not sure who wants to come back, but I’m pretty sure whoever comes back will be competing hard in his last international campaign.
Fortunately, Team Spain was wise enough to combine young, talented players into the roster in order to gather international experience. The 2009 Spanish roster included 2 NBA rookies (Rudy Fernandez, who was a part of the senior national team since the 2004 olympics, and Marc Gasol, who joined the seniors in 2006) and 3 NBA 2009 draftees (18 year old Ricky Rubio, who was only 17 when matched up with Jason Kidd/Chris Paul/Deron Williams as the starting PG for Spain in the olympic finals, is the headline of course. Sergio Llull and Victor Claver joined the senior national team this summer, and each has a superstar potential. I believe that Llull is already a better player than Dragic, and he’s also younger).
So, it looks like Team Spain’s young core is Ricky-Rudy-Llull-Claver-Marc Gasol. Pau is supposed to continue playing next summer (barring injuries of course), but it’s not clear who joins them. Lottery pick bigman Fran Vasquez (11# in 2005 by the Magic) might finally start his international career, Kings PG Sergio Rodriguez might be in (he wasn’t invited since Rubio joined the team).
by Oren on Sep 21, 2009 4:26 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
yikes! feel the drama
This season will be even better as long as I'm drinking while watching!
by ZonaFlash on Sep 21, 2009 5:37 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congrats to Spain and Slovenia
Spain finally won it’s first Eurobasket gold medal, after 6 silver medals. Pau Gasol and Rudy Fernandez (I will never forgive Sarver for giving him away 2 years ago) got to the All-Eurobasket team. The Spaniards deserved to win it all and I’m really happy for them.
Slovenia got to the Eurobasket semis for the first time in its history. The Slovenians were always known as a team of big-time offensive talents and weak defensive abilities, who have always came short of winning a knockout game. Their losing reputation became even more embarrassing two years ago, as they blew a 12 point lead with 4:30 to go and once again failed to get past the quarter-finals.
This year, Team Slovenia got a new coach named Jure Zdovc and looked like a different team. They played great offense as always, but were also a tough team – defended, hustled and was clutch.
I considered Slovenia the 2nd best team of the tournament, and thought they could actually give Spain a legit fight in the finals, but their injury list just kept getting longer and longer:
PG Beno Udrih was out for the tournament as he got injured in a friendly game.
PF Matjaz Smodis (who I think was by far the best European PF until he got injury prone) was included in the roster and was shut down because of his back issues.
PF Uros Slokar (ex-Raptor) got a blow to his elbow and was out for a while, but came back injured for limited minutes in the knockout games.
SG Domen Lorbek got a blow to the neck and was slightly injured but kept playing.
SF Bostjan Nachbar has a swollen wrist, and his sweet shooting stroke was definitely hurt.
PG Goran Dragic has strained ligaments in his knee, and was shut down (despite conflicting reports about playing him in the knockout games).
PG Jaka Lakovic had twisted both left and right ankles but did not stop playing, since there was no other PG available.
Despite all those injuries, Slovenia gave all they could until they had absolutely nothing in the tank. Lakovic, once considered a soft player and a choker, played 124 minutes in 3 straight days (he was fouled out at the semis against Serbia with 1 minute left in overtime) although his both twisted ankles were twisted. He could barely move his feet and his injury could have gotten much worse, but Lakovic stayed on the court.
While the team was almost crippled, all active players elevated their game to another level – hit big shots, defended and gave the tournament’s biggest fight. The Slovenians weren’t willing to accept a loss at any cost, and only a foul problem (since there were no available ball-handlers or centers) allowed Serbia to eventually win the game.
Team Slovenia have never shown that kind of toughness and passion. You could tell they wanted to win so badly,
Of course, our beloved Suns are considered a big-time offensive team, but also weak defensively and mentally – just like Team Slovenia was until the 2007 Eurobasket. Goran Dragic was a part of Team Slovenia in both 2007 and 2009. He was a part of the change and you could tell that he also looked energized and more confident, especially in that Spain game (he was responsible to a huge 4th quarter comeback).
Dragic is considered as our future PG, although I don’t think he should be (coach Zdovc also doesn’t think so – Dragic was the backup SG until Udrih’s injury). Whether he will ever become a starting NBA PG or not is beyond me, but I believe this summer’s experience will make him a tougher player. He won’t be another soft Slovenian product (such as Sasha Vujacic, who was thrown out of the team because his lack of defensive effort), but a hustle player who is willing to sacrifice in order to get the win. While Dragic still has room to develop, the mental part has definitely improved.
by Oren on Sep 21, 2009 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great write up
thanks for that insight!
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 3:20 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure :)
I’m still excited about Team Slovenia’s play.
By the way, I hope Kerr put an eye on Erazem Lorbek’s status. Lorbek’s rights are held by the Pacers and he has a contract until 2011 (in Rubio’s Barcelona). Right now he looks like the best center in the Euroleague. Lorbek played against NBA competition (Marcin Gortat, Marc+Pau Gasol, Nenad Krstic, Pops Mensah-Bonsu) and was absolutely killing it. He has a skilled all-around game with variety of low-post moves, passing ability and a 3-point shot.
His rights might be available in a trade with the Pacers, so the Suns could be able to get him for cheap just like the Rockets got Scola two years ago. Lorbek will be able to come here in two years and I could see him having a scola-style rookie year.
by Oren on Sep 21, 2009 4:40 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
How old is he?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 21, 2009 5:44 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lorbek is 25.
Pau Gasol will play next world basketball championship and I don’t know if he’ll play the next Olympic Games.
The Spanish team is mostly a group of friends formed around Pau Gasol. Other players always expected to know if Pau will play a championship. If Pau play, then play all.
Fran Vazquez will not play the next world basketball championship because he is vetoed by Pau, in the same way that has not played this tournament in Europe, nor played the Olympics.
In the Spanish national basketball Pau is the boss; nor the coach nor the president of the Spanish basketball federation, only Pau.
by matrix7 on Sep 22, 2009 12:37 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
that's interesting
He doesn’t seem to have that kind of attitude but I guess in Spain he’s the biggest fish in the pond. When I talked to him at the all star game he seemed very….not like a super star.
It was actually Rudy Fernandez that was mobbed by the Spanish press and kind of acted like a Prince
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 22, 2009 9:03 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Pau plays in the Eurobasket,
it’s always seems like he plays against children. Pau is so fluid and makes everything look so easy. No other European player has looked that dominant for many many years.
by Oren on Sep 22, 2009 3:39 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right in that Pau is not acting as a super-star but in selecting everything revolves around him.
In the case of Rudy imagine it would be for the novelty.
by matrix7 on Sep 22, 2009 9:25 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs
change selecting by Spanish basketball team
by matrix7 on Sep 22, 2009 9:27 AM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
It was very strange b/c Rudy was treated like a rock star while Pau was literally ignored
vs
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Sep 22, 2009 5:27 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that once Pau retires, Rudy will become the offensive cornerstone of Spain.
He still has a decent upside and will be getting a lot more shots/minutes while playing in his natural position (Navarro will probably retire or start declining).
by Oren on Sep 22, 2009 3:45 PM MDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, it seems a natural replacement. Rudy has talent, quality and confidence. And ways of super-star, ja ja. Pau is like Duncan, the quiet man.
There are always exceptions (Jordan, Kobe), but bigs (Sacq, Duncan, Olajuwon, Robinson, Chamberlain, etc.) are usually who make the difference in the teams. The problem in Spain is the lack of bigs (I speak of 7-0, 7-1). Pau and Marc are the exception.
by matrix7 on Sep 23, 2009 3:28 AM MDT reply actions 0 recs

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