Amare Stoudemire Talks About Trade Rumors, His Future and a Questionable Report
Amare Stoudemire may be leaving Phoenix. Or he may not be leaving Phoenix. In an exclusive interview with Bright Side of the Sun he revealed that he didn't know for sure which would happen, leaving the door open for either scenario.
That's right, you heard it here first. Amare isn't sure if he will or will not be traded in the coming weeks. His lack of clarity on the matter only gives more fuel to his critics who worry about Amare's inability to predict the future, something that has long plagued his career.
Stoudemire did have some interesting things to say about the time-line for a decision, where he would potentially want go, his thoughts on holding the cards to his future, and a report from this morning that linked him to "locker room tension".
On the possibility of being traded
Asked about a recent ESPN analysis (Insider) that put the chances of an Amare trade at "40 to 50 percent", the Phoenix Suns all-star center (in waiting) said this about those odds, "I'm not sure. It's possible, same as it was last year. So like I've said before my agent is conversing a lot with the front office here (in Phoenix) and we are going to come up with a decision soon."
The conversation between the Suns and Amare's representative is fairly straight forward and only the opening gambit to this process which has many steps as outlined in this convenient flow chart.
Amare still believes (as of this morning) that he is worthy of a max contract. Most other observers who have watched Amare over the course of his career question that based on his defensive liabilities and lack of franchise-level leadership presence.
Steve Kerr and the Suns have yet to tip their hand publicly but past signs point to a disconnect from the get-go. Kerr said last year that he feels only two or three players in the league were deserving of max contracts and listed Kobe, LeBron and Duncan (and not Amare).
That's not to say an agreement can't be reached. Both sides are negotiating and neither is going to show all their cards until they have to. But with the Feb 19 trade deadline approaching we should learn soon enough if there's an agreement to be had on extending Amare's tenure as a Phoenix Sun.
I put the chances of his staying at about 40 to 50 percent. I wonder what Amare would say to that?
On having options and where he might use them
Amare is in the driver's seat for what happens next to both him and the Phoenix Suns. It's a position that he's happy to have, "I think it's a good position to be in. You never want to be in a position where you have no control. I would rather for it to be fifty-fifty where we could come up with a mutual agreement and make the correct decision for the both of us."
On numerous occasions Amare has said that winning is an important factor in any decision on where he wants to go but admitted today that market size also plays a role.
"Market size does play a factor. There's a lot of different factors. Being able to win and if you can't win this year then how long would it take to build it to win," Amare said. "It's all about being able to, and being willing to have a team that's willing to build a championship caliber team."
Over the years Amare has responded favorably when asked about specific cities including Washington DC, New York and most recently the New Jersey Nets who he considers to be a team with potential.
He talked about the Nets with Fred Kerber of the NY Post:
"It may scare some but . . . it won't scare us," Stoudemire said of the (Nets) record. "We understand how good a team [they] can be if they put the right pieces together. So the opportunity is bright for the Nets. It's a matter of making the right decisions.
"Brook Lopez is playing well and Devin is playing well. Even Yi is not a bad player. So you have that and then you can put pieces around them. You bring in a big time star and you see what you can do."
On "locker room tension"
ESPN's Chad Ford reported (Insider) this morning that, "the word out of Phoenix is that there has been some tension in the locker room involving Stoudemire."
Amare had no idea what this was about. When I brought it up he was perplexed and a little irritated asking me, "What's locker room tension? What is that?"

Having been around the team in many practice sessions and in the locker room after games, I've never once seen signs of any player-related tension let alone anything specific to Amare.
Stoudemire was adamant in his denial of this report, "I think it's great. The chemistry with us is phenomenal. It's been fun all season long and we've been growing that way. There's no locker room tension. I don't know where that came from."
Which begs the question, where did it come from? Assuming you believe Amare, and I do. And assuming you believe that Chad Ford didn't make up that report, and I do. You have to ask who benefits by floating that rumor.
Perhaps a team that knows it is going to need to trade a popular player with a resume most fans find very impressive would feel the need to undermine that players reputation prior to his being moved.
It wouldn't be the first time that happened in Phoenix.
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Stan
We all have an opinion on what to do with Amare.
I just want to know what your opinion on the whole Amare situation is and what would you do if you were in Steve Kerr’s shoes?
I would follow this course of action
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2010/1/19/1260712/amare-extension-trade-flow-chart
Look – it is hard to say from the outside b/c there are SO many variables.
I’ve said many times, I don’t think Amare is a max player so I would negotiate an extension that was 3 or 4 years and no more than say $15m per year. If Amare’s insists on more than I would shop him but if the deals suck and might go back to Amare and try again. Then I would look at the deals again and at some point you just have to make a decision and take the best possible option but there’s no way for me to say what that will be.
If you present three trade scenarios I could say which I like and why but we have no idea if those scenarios are on the table so…it is all just speculation for anyone not in the Suns front office.
What I wouldn’t do would be to let him walk this summer and get nothing.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 21, 2010 5:22 PM MST up reply actions
I've also said
that I think he will be traded this time (although I had earlier said he wouldn’t so I’ve hedged both sides) and I for whatever reason, I think Chicago will be the place. No info. Just gut instinct.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 21, 2010 5:24 PM MST up reply actions
Chicago eh?
What does your gut tell you we will get in return from Chicago?
After reading this comment and the flow chart...
I vote Stan for Suns GM!
by Lorenzo Franceschi Bicchierai on Jan 22, 2010 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
Possible Amare Trade
It should be a “set in cement”………. Kerr Trade. No allegiance to Phoenix and the Suns!!!!
For what it's worth
Gambo on KTAR says his odds are 75/25 in favor of Amare being traded by the deadline. He mentioned Chicago, Miami, Houston and New Jersey as the teams being the most interested.
I think Amare is as good as gone this time around....
What will be interesting to see is if there are multiple moves done, I can’t see Nash wanting to hang around and rebuild. I honestly think it would be prudent to let Amare, Nash and Hill move on.
Only time will tell though, time to step away from the trade machine :)
don't trade Stoudemire--too risky
Hello. I really think Amare Stoudemire should not be traded, because trading him would be more trouble than it’s worth. I don’t think Steve Kerr is an idiot or a sap, but I would guess that his peers around the league generally believe him to be, and I don’t want to know if they’re right—the state of the Suns is precarious enough already. Trading Amare Stoudemire is begging to be swindled by the rest of the league. When the Lakers traded garbage for Pau Gasol, I probably thought even more intensely than usual that those people were slime, but I knew more rationally that they were being smart businessmen.
And I know he’s not a max-contract player, but he very well could be one in a season or two. We can’t wait until then.
Unless someone with insider information has evidence, the report that there was locker room tension sounds stupid. What was ESPN talking about?—it looks like the team has good chemistry.
so your vote is
to give Amare whatever he wants to get him extended?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 21, 2010 8:30 PM MST up reply actions
Fair enough
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 22, 2010 10:34 AM MST up reply actions
thats a helluva lot of money
to gamble on a 9th year veteran suddenly learning how to defend, rebound, be a locker room leader and perform in crunch time.
Perhaps a team that knows it is going to need to trade a popular player with a resume most fans find very impressive would feel the need to undermine that players reputation prior to his being moved.
YES
Who’s in the locker room more, PHX Stan or Chad Ford?
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 21, 2010 8:30 PM MST up reply actions
I'd like to see how STAT + Robin works out
Robin’s basically the 5 we’ve always wanted to play alongside STAT and Steve, if they really start to click I wouldn’t be opposed to holding onto Amar’e for the year.
Stan, get a poll going in a fanshot about whether we would like to see Amare traded this season or not.
No fancy stuff about the “right pieces” or “for pennies on the dollar” just straight up yes or no.
Reading is good...
The thing is
Amare and his people believe he is worth the max, because Amare considers himself an elite player. This is why he needs to be traded. Amare treats defense like it is H1N1. Amare is a good player, who on ocassion has great nights.
Nothing personal, but time he moves on.
Ridiculous
Time Amare moves on? It is ridiculous for you guys think the best decision for the franchise is to blow the whole thing up and start with Dragic at point feeding it to Lopez? That would make make the ugliest looking pick and roll…
Why not ask Cleveland how those long 20 years were after Larry Nance before the drafted Lebron ? Or Milwaukee, Sacramento over the last couple of decades? So if they do not get equal value for Amare leaving why not sign him to max if he wants it? It may hurt the pocketbook but if they don’t they will have zero chance of landing anyone decent in free agency either. Who will any free agent come to Phoenix to play with old man Nash and Hill who wont be around in a couple of years?
Amare is the future it sucks to pay him so much but Ben Wallace got close to a max deal so why wouldn’t Amare deserve one? The man we need to get rid of is Richardson for anyone, throw him to Cleavland for Big Z’s expiring. But if we cannot move him I’m sure we could talk about a cheap buyout and he can move on and not loose any salary for next year. (4-5 M buyout after this season then he can sign with a new team for at least 7-8 I’m sure, it would be a push for him.
+1
That is advice that I think we need to remember as fans. Trading or “blowing up” the team doesn’t necessarily equate to having a good team later. Heck even Memphis has had a tough time of getting there and they have had remarkable luck with their pieces. The Knicks are having a tough time….Cleveland took forever. ..Sacramento still isn’t there. Milwaukee and and Minnesota…
It is no guarantee that if we blow it up that draft picks or young talent will do us any better than sticking with Amare and Nash and slowly building around them. Thanks for that.
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jan 22, 2010 7:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
What did all of those teams have in common?
Bad front offices with terrible GMs who either made poor decisions on contracts or just refused to take on new money. I trust Kerr and/or Kriffin more than I trust Isiah Thomas or Kevin McHale, that’s for sure.
If there is a lesson that can be learned from the terrible GMs around the league it is that overpaying for players will cripple you more than letting good players(not great players) walk. It leaves the team in that zone of over the cap but under the tax and gives them no flexibility to manuever especially as they approach the tax as only a few select teams are willing to pay the luxury tax.
Examples:
1) Signing: Bucks sign Michael Redd to a max deal because they are afraid he will bolt for Cleveland.
Effect: Michael Redd is out again for the season and is on the books for 36 million this year and the next
2) Non-Signing: The Pistons(previously one of the most underated front offices in the league) let Ben Wallace walk rather than paying him huge money.
Effect: Chicago overpays for Big Ben. He does pretty much nothing. Gets traded a crap ton. Signs with the Pistons for a small amount when his contract is up. Pistons go 53-29 that year and make the Eastern Conference Finals. Their cap situation was fine going forward.
3) Signing: Almost every single signing the Knicks have made in the past.
Effect: They are still trying to rebuild after overpaying or taking on bad contract guys like Marbury, Houston, Curry, Jerome James, Jeffries, and the list goes on and on.
Moral of the Story: It is better to let a guy walk then overpay him out of fear. Better yet it is better to get some value for him in a sign and trade.
True...and good moral
but I can name countless other stories of teams that let guys walk or traded guys only to see them explode as super stars. Your point is that “fear” drives front offices…fear of losing a player and that player stepping it up a notch. The reason there is a “fear” in the first place is because it happens. Joe Johnson is one that hits close to home for us. Steve Nash and the Mavs is another one.
Reading is good...
It happens far less that the player leaves and outperforms the level they were at than that they leave and do the same or worse.
I agree though that fear does drive front offices and that is because NBA contracts are 100% guaranteed which is just ridiculous. It decreases the quality of basketball that is played when these guys no longer have to earn their money once they get that contract.
by Superelkman on Jan 22, 2010 11:33 AM MST up reply actions
Memphis is good now. OKC is good now. Portland did an excellent job of blowing their team up and rebuilding. The Knicks situation is different because they had so much money on the books they still haven’t really blown their team up because of all the contracts still clinging to them. Sacramento has a nice core going forward in Martin, Evans, Casspri, Brockman, Hawes, and a guy I love to watch Jason Thompson. Usually you have to start from scratch in the NBA because not every team can get lucky like the Spurs and go from David Robinson to Tim Duncan.
Thats not true. You can build around one “high paid” player, look at the Lakers when they let Shaq go to build around Kobe. And with that one player you can attract talent and build around with draft picks etc… That would be the conventional way to build for the future in my opinion.
Just because you have a lot of young promising talent on your team does NOT guarantee you will ever be good it just means you have a young team that sucks, and I don’t think any fans especially Phoenix Fans want to see that. So if you cant get lucky and score a big name draft pick and want to build you better find those one or two players to build around and we have that in Amare and Nashty (I think he has 3-4 more seasons left in the tank).
Lakers got gifted Pau Gasol, too.
If they didn’t get Gasol, they’d still be getting slapped around by Phoenix every year.
Id hardly call that a gift, if you’d seen his brother play this year at all you know that that kid has way more skills with a much better post game and defensive prowess, and is much younger. The kid averages 2 less points a game than his brother and 1.5 rebs less a game also shoots better, and is much cheaper.
Homer...
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm
Lakers used their money to build around Kobe. The only draft pick of theirs that has panned out is Bynum.
Yes you can build around a super high paid player if his last name is Bryant, James, Howard, or Duncan. Outside of those four there aren’t any players that increases your win total enough to be worth a max contract. Amare is not even close to this caliber of player. I think everyone is in for a very, very rude awakening when Nash retires and this is Amares team. Amare is only going to get older and when his athelticism goes he is nothing more than an undersized 4 with a good jumpshot. Back to 28 wins when that happens. Amare is a really good complementary piece but anything close to max money is assinine.
Never said having young talent guarantees you wins. But in the NBA it has been proven trying to win and rebuild at the same time rarely ever works. The team usually just ends up stuck in that barely making the 8th seed range.
by Superelkman on Jan 22, 2010 10:24 AM MST up reply actions
It's not that what we say about his limitations is wrong...
…but who would replace Amare Stoudemire, and would he be an adequate replacement? I don’t really want to find out.
by species8473 on Jan 22, 2010 10:39 AM MST up reply actions
not quite
I am not going to argue about Nash’s abilities augmenting Amare’s talent but to say that he is not on the same level as Howard is ludicrous. Howard is not on the same level as Howard. His play is more mythical than fact. He is not as good as Kobe, Lebron, and Wade. I am not even Sure Duncan deserves that honor either. Amare is a proven player. Did you see the Atlanta game the other night? Amare payed out of his mind. He was ridiculous on both ends of the court. If that is what we can expect to see even with Nash gone then I am willing to go for it. Amare probably has 4-5 more years of solid All-Star play and then he will crash because of his knee. During that time he WILL be one, if not the, most dominant PF post player in the league. Its not even an argument. It WILL happen. We can either trade him and hope that it doesn’t and maybe get back something in return that attracts other pieces, or we can keep him and build around him.
Reading is good...
Duncan led his team to four championships. That is just assinine to not put him in the top 4. This often happens because he is not flashy.
Amare had a great game against Atlanta but doesn’t do that consistantly. I wouldn’t pay max money for a power forward who can’t: play with his back to the basket, rebound better than an average PF, play defense night in and night out, relies on athelticism and has been injured multiple times in his career.
Amare is slightly better than Howard on offense(definitely more skilled but Howard makes up for it by being a monster on the offensive glass) but atleast 100 times worse on defense.
“During that time he WILL be one, if not the, most dominant PF post player in the league.”
He isn’t a post player. He faces up and blows by his guy or shoots a mid-range jumper. He does this in a very effective way but once his athleticism slips he’s done.
by Superelkman on Jan 22, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
Duncan didn’t “lead” anything. He was a part of a team effort that, more often than not, featured Parker and Ginobili as just as important as he was. You take away any of those guys and their team doesn’t make it. That doesn’t mean Duncan is mediocre. Far from it. But a max player? No. Don’t make the mistake of pigdeon-holing me into judging players based on their “flashiness.” I couldn’t care less. Its ASININE to do that.
True Amare doens’t play like that consistently but who does?! Amare has done quite well for himself in the face of a tremendous amount of adversity. Josh Smith doesn’t play like that every night. And I am not saying pay max money for Amare. But to knock on his game in, basically, unqualified ways is ASININE. Reounds are important but Amare averages just as many as any good PF in the league. IF you want to call that “average” then go ahead but I think 8 boards a game is not bad. Thats better than Josh Smith, Nowiztki, West, Beasley, Green and Landry. Maybe not as good as Bosh or Randolph but its a little like Apples and Oranges. As far as defense, he averages nearly a block a game along with most of the other good PFs in the league. His defense may be something knock on a bit but you can’t really judge it too harshly considering that this is his first coach to ever emphasize it and he is doing quite well this season.
“He isn’t a post player. He faces up and blows by his guy or shoots a mid-range jumper. He does this in a very effective way but once his athleticism slips he’s done.”
What do you think being a “post-player” entails? Sure, he won’t be D. Howard or Shaq but he isn’t shaped to be like that. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a post player. He plays in the post. He dominates in the post. Yes, he can take outside shots…but a good deal of his game happens in the post. What other definitions of “post player” are there?
Reading is good...
“8 boards a game is not bad”
Yes it is when you are a front court player and your team has the 4th highest pace in the league meaning there are more rebounds to be had.
“What do you think being a "post-player" entails?”
It means playing in the post which is “…defined as the areas that are closest to the basket but outside of the free throw lane.” Amare catches in the high post a lot. Name one team to win a championship ever without a decent low post presence.
“True Amare doens’t play like that consistently but who does?! "
Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Brandon Roy are just a few of the star players that do. Not to mention there are veteran role players who play consistently night in and night out.
“Duncan didn’t "lead" anything.”
Yes he did. Your stupid if you don’t think so. He is by far the best player on that team and allowed Ginobili and Parker to thrive because so much attention was payed to Duncan.
“IF you want to call that "average" then go ahead but I think 8 boards a game is not bad. Thats better than Josh Smith, Nowiztki, West, Beasley, Green and Landry.”
Amare is way more athletic that those guys except maybe Smith so he should get more than they do. The fact he doesn’t get more speaks to effort and his smallish frame for a 4.
“As far as defense, he averages nearly a block a game along with most of the other good PFs in the league.”
One block a game doesn’t mean jack if you aren’t playing good position defense. Being a good shot blocker and good defender are usually related but do not necessarily go hand in hand. And honestly, .95 blocks per game in 34.7 minutes per game on a fast paced team is nothing to cream yourself over.
by Superelkman on Jan 22, 2010 12:18 PM MST up reply actions
Dont leave out everything else I said in your apologetics...
I think you overrate Amare’s “athleticness” quite a bit especially considering his injuries. Yes, Amare is athletic, but not a whole lot more than the people I mentioned. Beasley is just as athletic as Amare so is Josh Smith (which you mentioned). West Green and Landry might be a step below but it doesn’t matter. the fact is, he is near the top in rebounds for his position as a PF. I get that pace matters too, but you have to consider that with the Sun’s defense being so porous and, until recently, Frye not playing much center, that Amare is all they have had for post defense. It requires a great deal of effort to play post defense on a driving PG or SG then get the board if he misses it. I am not trying to say that he couldn’t be better, simply that there are a lot of things to consider especially when it comes to boards.
As far as consistency, I think you discredit Amare quite a bit. Nash takes defensive plays off all the time, Kidd is not nearly the focus of the offense like he was in younger days, Duncan plays at a LOT slower pace, and Roy and Wade are known for their disappearing acts in games. besides, you really can’t compare the job of a shoot first PG/SG with a PF. Now Lebron is a different matter.
Ok if you want to say I am stupid then fine, but I dont think that team was any more Duncan’s than it was Parker’s. That is not a knock on Duncan, but if you put him in a system where he is the only good player it still wouldnt work. Trade him and Brook Lopez, and the Nets are still under .500. And if you say differently then YOUR stupid. (nice how I don’t have to qualify a statement like that huh?)
I love how you picked out the things in my post that you could refute instead of looking at the overall message. Dont pull things out of context. Blocks, rebounds, points, defensive presence. My point is, your case AGAINST Amare is really not that strong.
AGAIN, I am not saying he is a max player….I never said that…but you can easily build a team around Amare and another star. And its not asinine to think so either….
Reading is good...
Duncan on the Nets makes them a .500 team. The Nets are bad but have had a ton of injuries this season.
Amare is worth 14 million max… no more. You are a little too high on Amare and I am probably a little too harsh on him. He is a talent. No one is denying that. I just think he is not a franchise centerpiece.
The best guage of a players rebounding efficiency is the rebound rate because it adjusts for the amount of available rebound the player is on the court for. Amares is 14.1%. This is 33RD among PF’s. 14.1 is up from last years rate of 12.8 so that shows you how great he is on the glass. If the guy is so great on the boards how come the Suns are overall so terrible on the glass.
Ok
We will just have to agree to disagree about Duncan. I dont think he would help the Nets all that much. I think Duncan is overrated and really only good because the system fits him. thats all. Disagree all you want but we don’t have any evidence to prove otherwise.
I dont know if I am “high” on him or not. Whatever that means. I just hate to see the Suns let a good piece go.
Its asinine to blame the Suns rebounding woes all on Amare. Its just plain stupid.
Reading is good...
Except 4 championships. But yeah if you ignore the best player on the best team of last decade then yeah there is absolutely no evidence.
Call me what you want…since I am a “kid” apparently you are an “old man” so I will just refer to you as that…..
Talk basketball instead of taking potshots to degrade my arguement
Reading is good...
I have been and giving statistics and facts to back up my arguments. You just keep blindly insisting that Stat is the lord.
SO when I talked about his rebounding stats and blocking stats that was simply “insisting that Stat is lord.” Jeez man you need to back it up a bit. I am making an argument and so are you. Then you take potshots at me because you cant convince me of your position. Go cry to someone else if it sucks.
Once again I will reiterate my point that STAT, as of this point, is not a max player. But he IS, IMO, a player that we can build around. How hard is that for you to get? that is my position. Dont take potshots at my personally for arguing my case. Bad form
Reading is good...
+1
Considering Amare is a PF and Duncan is really a C it is not fair to compare, if we had a C who could rebound we wouldn’t even be talking about Amare’s rebounding
True. But Duncan is listed at 6’11 260 and Stat at 6’10 249 and they both play close to the basket on defense so the position shouldn’t make too huge of a difference.
Honestly...
I wouldnt buy those numbers. Duncan has stated on numerous occasions that he WANTS to be a PF and probably downsizes his heighy whereas Amare’s height is probably the typical natural stature plus shoes that all NBA teams do.
Reading is good...
Yeah it is stupid to blame the Suns rebounding woes on one of their front court players who plays almost 40 minutes a night. Again what was I thinking.
LOL
Whatever bud. its clear you dont want to consider that Basketball is a TEAM game. the TEAM rebounds…not just Amare.
Reading is good...
But ultimately someone has to come down with it and that is usually the PF or the C. A large part of the Suns woes rebounding the ball is Stat. A bigger problem is Frye but Stat sure is not great.
Right
I agree. But my point is, that Amare shouldn’t be held TOTALLY responsible for the rebounding deficiencies of Channing Fry. On the Hawks they have a true center that pulls down 10 a game (Horford) and Smith still averages only about 8-8.5 a game. That is a DECENT rebounding stat.
What do you want Amare’s numbers to be?!
Reading is good...
I think we are getting a little worked up over this. I like Amare and I do beleive he can be an effective piece of the puzzle. He does need someone next to him that can dominate the boards so he doesn’t have to. This is a strike against him and a reason why I don’t think of him in the same vein as guys who can score and do the dirty work like grabbing down a considerable amount of rebounds and playing good defense. I would like Amares rebound rate to be in the top 20 of PFs. This isn’t too much to ask.
Ok maybe I am missing something...
because I thought I mentioned earlier that Amare is 8th in PF rebounding rates…is that just me? Am I wrong about that?
Reading is good...
Don’t forget Frank Johnson, Coach D’Antoni’s predecessor. I heard some commentator—Al McCoy’s then-partner, I think—claim that Johnson had his Suns playing some of the best defense in the league. (Unfortunately, their offense wasn’t good.) If that was true, then Coach Gentry is the second coach to emphasize defense. (I was sorry Frank Johnson had to get himself fired.)
Since the kid has a quicker step than any other PF in the league why would he need to play with his back to the basket? He’d only be hurting his game if he did. If Dirk or Duncan had enough athleticism to play like Amare does I’m sure they would and would stop playing with their back to the basket. You think when Amare ages he cant develop into the slower horse on the post and have a nice turn around jumper/fade away? The dude has the best shot in the NBA for a kid his size when the time comes and he cant dunk on fools anymore I’m sure he will develop into that type of player.
The nice thing about players that can post up with their backs to the basket is that they have the opportunity to make better passes and get their teammates involved more since they are initially facing their perimeter shooters. Amare is not a player who makes his teammates better. He is a numbers guy.
Duncan is a guy that makes his teammates better. Stat doesn’t.
Also, the Spurs run their offense through Duncan. The Suns through Nash. Another reason Stat is more of a mystery to sign long term without Nash. Who knows how he will respond as the guy you run your offense through. No one knows because he has always had the luxury of having a guy to run the show.
Ridiculous
Duncan is good, no doubt. But they call him the “big fundamental” for a reason. He is good not because he "makes his teammates better….not in the way Nash does or Kidd does. Duncan is just a solid player. He is good enough that teams HAVE to key in on him or he goes ballistic. That doesn’t make your team “better” necessarily.
STAT is the same way in many respects so I agree with you there. But if your only valuation of a player is based on how much better they make their teammates then hardly anyone in the league is valuable.
Reading is good...
True dat, if your argument is that we cannot have a championship team because we dont have a typical post player to run the offense through then I dont want one if San Antonio had Nash to run the show and create they wouldnt need to run the offense through Duncan. Parker is not a creator.
It’s not that I think every team should play a slow it down, feed it to the post style, but players that can receive the ball in the post with their back to the basket and score with efficiency while finding teammates are usually All-NBA type players(Garnett, Duncan, Shaq in his prime was underated as a passer in the post, etc.)
I’m not saying that a slow it down grind it out guy is perfect for the Suns either . But they absolutely need a physical presence on the defensive end that can mesh with their offense. A guy who could get a couple buckets in the low post would be nice as well to make the team a little more multi-dimensional.
So your argument isn’t against Stat not being a traditional post player (although he probably averages 2 buckets a game from the post) but back to the same old argument of needing a post defender… then dont switch the argument and talk about any problems with the Suns offense!
Stat offensively is good with Nash. but since he is a player that relies on athelticism and isnt a guy they run the offense through I don’t think he will do well when Nash is gone. He is unlike Dirk and Duncan in that he creates a smaller percentage of his teams offense. Dirk and Duncan are where the Mavs and Spurs offense starts. Nash is where the Suns offense starts.
Also A.N.(After Nash) we probably would prefer a low post player to run the offense through. Stats numbers are highly contingent on Nash.
Well to do that you’d have to scap every part of the Suns Franchise, because they have always since the dawn of time been a point guard oriented team and since there are only a couple of low post players to run your offense through in the NBA currently, and the game is shifting to more agile/athletic big men I bet that era has passed.
It just means the low post player is that much more relatively valuable. The last however many champs have had a low post presence.
Gasol, Garnett, Shaq, Duncan
Sure if we want to me a middle of the road seed in the playoffs with no real chance of winning it but play fast exciting basketball then yes lets sign Stat, Eddie House, Ricky Davis, and Quetin Richardson and let them jack up shots without playing defense.
Plus they don’t neccessarily have to be low post players. That is the ideal though.
They just need an offensive centerpiece after Nash leaves and Stat is not that guy.
First of all Gasol’s low post presence did not win Lakers a championship, it was Kobe, Garnett had a stacked team against a soft Eastern Conf and Soft Lakers. So the only two players you can make the argument for are Shaq and Duncan. Where are the new centers/low post players for the future? There aren’t any Howard? No way Oden? The NBA is moving away from that type of play.
We aren’t talking about centering the team around one player we are talking about building around one player. And the way to do that is to have something to build around in Amare. As opposed to trying to hope and wish Dragic and Clark can produce in 2-3 years or lure in talent.
“The last however many champs have had a low post presence.”
As you can see I never said that the low post presence was the main offensive threat but they had guys who they could feed and get them an easy bucket.
Blake Griffin will be a low post threat. Howard should be more of one when he refines his offensive game. Brook Lopez. In college, Patrick Patterson, Demarcus Cousins, Hassan Whiteside, Greg Monroe(although he can do both), Gani Lawal among others.
I hope so but give me a break man, dude has played 2 good games and now we are talking about letting Amare loose to build around Fropez?
Again...
Memphis is good…but it took them a while and, really, they kinda got lucky with the Marc Gasol Randolph thing. Even Mayo and Gay turning out to be as good as they are is lucky. Portland may be the one example I can think of that did it well. The Kings…cmon…they are just now pulling themselves out of the gutter and its taken them forever. What, 10 years? Are you ready to wait ten years to be struggling to get above .500? Not me. I would rather play it safe and get lucky on young talent that can be picked up on FA or traded for.
Reading is good...
I’m not saying that blowing things up always works but imagine if they had kept Pau Gasol and tried to make the 8th seed every year like they always did. They wouldn’t have the picks or money to get their young core that they have now. I’m merely saying that sometimes you have to blow things up instead of clinging to mediocrity. The Suns are not necessarily at this point yet but it will happen and within the next 3-4 years especially with management’s stupid decision to trade away a top 5 PG in Rondo for 3 million bucks and some doritos.
by Superelkman on Jan 22, 2010 11:44 AM MST up reply actions
Hey
Im not gonna defend the office’s bad decisions in the past. I just don’t want them to make any more in the future. Its important to think really carefully about what we want in the team and how we are going to go about getting it. Its easy to be an armchair GM but even as fans we have to temper ourselves a little and adjust to real life. Thats all I am saying
Reading is good...
Fine
Sign him to a max deal, and watch this team tread water, then our Hall of Fame point guard retires and Amare becomes even less valuable. How many knee surgeries has Amare had?
Max deal to Amare is not the long term answer. He is a good player, not a max contract player.
I take it a lot of Sun fans like the idea of just making the playoffs as a 7 seed. This team needs to look at the future. Nash and Hill are coming to the end of brilliant careers, Amare is not the man to lead this team in the future.
Youre right...
no max deal. Not unless he steps up his game in a major way in the next few months. But a reasonable extension isn’t uncalled for….
Reading is good...
Trade him during the off season
No reason to rush this thing. (oh wait i forget this is a fast tempo team.) Unless the suns get a decent deal (player at the post and a 1st round pick ) there is no reason to trade Amare before the deadline. Just like species said, he might not be playing at a max contract level but he has improved.
can you please clear something for me
I am an not so much into this nba logic so:
“That of course, would be the worst case scenario for the Suns who would not be left with enough cap space to sign another “big name” free agent and would have passed up previous opportunities to trade Amare with enough time left on his contract that his influence over the process wouldn’t have been as powerful."
why we wouldnt have cap space if he leaves in summer? shouldn’t we have that 17mil that we wont be paying him? we can go for wade with that kind of money, right?
no
it is kind of complicated but you are only allowed to sign free agents using either your space under the salary cap (estimated to be about $53m) or using your annual mid-level exception (about $6m).
If Amare leaves the Suns will about about $40m in committed contracts but Frye and Hill have player options worth another $5m. Frye of course could opt out of that and the Suns might want to resign him for more (if he gets back to playing well). Also Lou Amundson will be a free agent so they will want to try and keep him (probably).
Right now, the suns have $74m in payroll. If they trade Amare they have to take back about the same amount of salary in the trade. Best case, they trade for a player with an expiring contract like Bobby Simmons and also get young players on rookie contracts and/or draft picks. That gives them salary relief plus young talent.
The system is really odd when you get between the salary cap and the luxury tax (about $70m). You basically can only use that money to pay your own players and not get new free agents.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 22, 2010 7:27 AM MST up reply actions
Thank you!
I was totally wondering the same thing for a long time. Now I get the urgency thing. I just always figured if Amare walked we would just use the money to sign someone just as big. Ok…whew…got it. NEXT!
Reading is good...
speaking of Frye
What exactly has gone wrong with Channing Frye? Is it anything more unusual than a shooting slump?
by species8473 on Jan 22, 2010 10:41 AM MST up reply actions
ok then
even if it still not completely clear to me, I get the most of it… basically if we are not sure he will stay in summer (and from what he says it doesn’t look as if he can promise that, neither kerr is willing to promise him max) we are better of trading him now…
so if I understood correctly, we cannot play important role in FA summer, as we don’t have enough money unless we ship not only amare but also jrich or nash for expiring contracts, right? or we can get bosh for amare for example, and only then we can give him more money..
one more thing, can MLE be aggregated with what is left in salary cap to offer may to wade, for example?
Yep.
This is why trading Amare during this season, or sign-and-trading him in the offseason is so important. That way, at least we have the full value of his contract to play with, rather than half of it.
also
stan, what do you feel, are (cheap) sarver and kerr willing to pay for wade or lebron, if there is a chance for it? just hypotethically…
I think if Wade or LeBron wanted to come to Phoenix, Sarver would pay.
Sarver is not cheap, he’s just “penny wise, but pound foolish” as the saying goes. The thing is: Wade and LeBron are not coming to Phoenix. Their current teams are basically as good as we are, and we’re in a small market.
Well...
Cleveland ain’t a bigger market than PHX. Plus we got good weather and a player-friendly coach and system. Oh and that guy named Steve Nash.
by Lorenzo Franceschi Bicchierai on Jan 22, 2010 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
Cleavland has a bunch of scrubs and Mo Williams. Cleavland’s core players excluding Lebron are NOT better than our players so you can’t make that argument, he’d go much further this season if he were on PHX than in Cleavland.
But think of who we'd have to give up to get LeBron.
We can’t just keep Nash, Amare, and Richardson and then sign LeBron to a max contract. That’s now how the CBA works. We have to clear space under the cap. Even just letting Amare walk isn’t enough.
exactly
we would have to let Amare walk AND trade JRich for expiring contracts….this really isn’t very likely
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 22, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Who wouldn’t want LeBron James, but I feel uncomfortable about him (not his playing skills—him). He comes off as too big for Cleveland, which is exactly what I felt about Shaquille O’Neal in Phoenix. I saw at least one column suggesting that he expects his team to bring him a championship in order to keep him, not that he must bring it one. And of course there is his acting like a baby when his team got eliminated from the playoffs.
by species8473 on Jan 22, 2010 10:47 AM MST up reply actions
When you average 28-8-7
You can’t really be accused of “expecting his team to bring him a championship”, especially when the best teamate he’s ever had is Mo freaking Williams. He doesn’t expect his team to bring him a championship, he expects his team to bring him some help.
Throw in a late 1st and I’d do it if he is going to walk anyways. Hickson seems like he will be pretty solid if not pretty darn good.
by Superelkman on Jan 22, 2010 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Surely we can do better than that
we SHOULD have got Hickson as part of the shaq salary dump. Hickson and a late first rounder aren’t worth amare, thats more of a salary dump than the gasol trade.
That is only if we can’t resign him to a reasonable deal. Hickson, a 1st, Moon who is a solid wing defender, and a big $11 mill expiring isn’t terrible. This would allow the Suns to sign someone to their full MLE w/o going into the tax if they wanted to as well.
2010 2nd Tier Free Agents(according to hoopsworld.com)
Udonis Haslem
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (option to opt-out prior to 2010)
Anderson Varejao (option to opt-out prior to 2010)
Al Harrington (option to opt-out prior to 2010)
Ben Wallace
T.J. Ford (player option for ‘10-’11, owed 8.5 million)
Jamal Crawford (option to opt-out prior to 2010)
Richard Jefferson (ETO)
Amir Johnson
Raja Bell
Jerry Stackhouse
Peja Stojakovic (ETO)
Josh Howard (*Mavs have a Team Option for $11.8 million in 10/11)
John Salmons (ETO)
Travis Outlaw
Rafer Alston
Luis Scola (restricted)
Roger Mason
Chris Duhon
All of the above plus signing one of those guys potentially to some or all of our MLE. We could definitely do worse.
Are you kidding...
These guys are garbage…Who on here is worth anything? Perhaps if we KEPT Amare and signed one of these guys but are you suggesting that we start one of these guys in place of Amare? LOL
Reading is good...
Scola’s rebounding is worse than Amare’s!!!!!!!! Scola’s season rebounding is at 8.8 and Amare’s is 8.7, over the last 30 days though Amare’s is 9.5 and Scolas is 7.7.
Scolas rebound rate is 16.6% which is considerably better than Amares. Gotta factor in time played and pace.
Well Statistic King factor in the last 60 days statistics where Amare would have gotten his legs/game back from injury. Amare’s is 9.5 and Scolas is 7.7 those numbers dont lie.
Rebound Rate
Rebound Rate is the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds.
Again… Stats boards are always going to be inflated a bit compared to other PFs because he plays alot on a high pace team.
Who would be the better rebounder
A guy who gets 1 board every 5 rebounds minutes or a guy who gets one every 7 rebounds. Just because Stat sees more rebounds doesn’t mean he is a better rebounder.
Fine but my point is do your math and calculations for the last 30-60 days when STAT has his game back I bet those numbers will be much better than his beginning of season numbers where he was out of shape.
Dude. Stat is what he is. Why do you insist he is a great rebounder. He isn’t. He has stepped it up as of late but I am sure he will have a stretch where he averages below his rpg. He is a good rebounder at best when he tries and he doesn’t always do that. This is all centering around whether he is a franchise centerpiece and no he is not. Not enough rebounding, defense, and effort for the position he plays plus injury concerns.
Stan, you're a celeb.
This article is mentioned in ESPN’s Insider rumors section, as being in response to Chad Ford’s report.
I saw that. Very nice Stan. Way to call ESPN out on making up a false story or not checking theirs sources about Amare causing trouble in the locker room.
nah
I don’t see it that way. I think Ford had information but like anything it may or may not be right.
Just b/c Amare denied it doesn’t mean Ford is wrong. Personally, I believe that rumor is wrong and I believe the reason it was floated was to help the Suns grease the skids for his eventual departure.
But I don’t KNOW that to be true. It’s all just part of the discussion
and thanks
and starting next week I am going to go by my real name…time to drop the “Phoenix Stan” thing
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @phoenixstan
by Seth Pollack on Jan 22, 2010 3:19 PM MST up reply actions
From the Wiretap ...
Warriors GM Larry Riley says:
“Is a little something good enough? I can tell you right now: No it isn’t,” Riley said. "We’re not looking to do something minor.
“It might take trading somebody that we would rather not trade, but we need another player of substance.”
Sounds like an invitation to open up talks with them again.

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