Sun Sets on Mavericks/TNT Curse Behind Defensive Effort - In Phoenix!
by Seth Pollack on Jan 29, 2010 12:56 AM MST
in Phoenix Suns: Game Coverage
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You know what they say, defense and rebounding wins championships and tonight the Suns defense was clearly the story of the game or at least the final chapter where the Suns held the Mavs to 6 of 21 (28%!) in the fourth.
Amare Stoudemire was not part of that. He did have 22 points in 26 minutes on a nice 7/13 shooting night but his 1 rebound and 5 turnovers must have convinced Coach Gentry that it was time to do put aside egos, or trade value implications, or offense for that matter and just get the win the old fashion way. Defense.
Amare was all good with it in the locker room. Saying the right things, smiling for the cameras, "It's all good. I brung out the pom-poms for the fourth quarter. They did a great job out there on the court so I just had to cheer them on...We got the win which is the most important thing so we've just got to live with that."
Amare said this was the first time he remembers sitting out a fourth quarter.
It's hard to say what this means for the future but Coach Gentry did his best to beat down that kind of speculation,
"He's been a great teammate this year. He understood that we were going pretty good with Lou and the way the lineups were we were switching a lot of things. It was just the way it worked out. At the end of the day the guy had 22 points for us. He helped us win as much as anyone. So I wouldn't read anything into that at all. Hey, I took Steve out to put Goran in defensively and we talked about it the other day. We just got to do whatever we think we need to do to help us win the game."
The best compliments for the Suns came from the Mavericks.
Coach Carlisle, "Their bench was the difference and they played a very physical game and i though that was the difference."
Jason Kidd, "Their second unit was a lot better than the guys that were on the floor."
Jason Terry, "We've got to get the ball into people's hands that can put it in the basket."
Oh, Jason. Were you not happy with your 1 for 4 shooting in the 4th quarter? Were you looking to shoot more? 
The difference for the Suns between the energy and defensive effort between the starters and the bench was night and day and it started in the second quarter where the reserve unit of Dragic, Dudley, Frye, Amundson and Clark out scored Dallas 18 to 15 and changed the tone of the game after a slow start that had the Suns down 20-10 within a few minutes.
In the fourth quarter it was the combination of Hill, Dudley, Frye and Amundson that picked up the heaviest load with Dragic playing the first 6:38 before Nash was able to come in rested and ready to close out the final 5:22.
Dudley said this about the different approach the Suns took to winning the game with defense, "We had a line up that we could just switch so much different and between me and Grant switching on him we definitely limited Nowitzki and Terry in the second half."
Hill and Dudley both did a great job on Dirk. He finished with 19 points on 11 shots and had 10 FTA's but in crucial fourth quarter the Suns held him to only one attempt (a miss) by playing him physical off the ball and denying him his spots. You have to defend Dirk before the catch and make him work to even receive the ball and Hill and Dudley did exactly that.
Switching picks was certainly also a big key to the Suns defense in the fourth quarter. With that group on the floor they were able to mix it up and didn't let the Mavericks use screens to get open looks like they had earlier in the game.
Physical, smart, aggressive defense. About as common of a sight in Phoenix as snow but just as exciting and welcome.
Post Game Audio:
Post Game Links:
In-game Notes
1st Qtr
- Nice crowd for this game. Hope that helps
- Jet goes right by Nash to hit a floater in the lane. JRich in the post starts it off for the Suns. Both connect
- Amare hits his first two shots. He looks focused
- Dirk just hip checked Hill's head in the stanchion. Hill had fallen and was "sitting"
- Plenty of scoring if that's your thing
- Wow. Went to Robin in the paint to work against Dampier. Didn't work but first time I've seen that
- Three or maybe five early turnovers. Mavs up 20-10
- Can the Suns come back? In their current mental state, I doubt it
- Can't be long now before Gentry's forced into the zone
- Dirk's hair is boring these days
- Suns close a little to 26-18
- Suns go to the zone...give up a couple of quick wide open shots
- and the zone goes away and the Suns give up another bucket
- Amare fouls Dirk on the Landry Teeth Elbow
- 34-25 Mavs. No defense to speak of. Amare two fouls. 6 turnovers (none for Dallas)
2nd Qtr
- Mavs being aggressive getting into the paint and to the line. Suns are taking jump shots. Sound familiar? It's like 3 years ago
- 2nd unit playing much better D
- Goran can't buy a whistle with ten bucks an Amex card
- Like I said, Goran drives and gets the and 1
- Keeping it close by hitting shots but 8 turnovers? That won't do
- I do like this line up of Dragic, Dudley, Clark, Lou and Frye. Good D. Switching all picks and doubling Dirk
- Beaubois w/ three fouls - sits. Goran goes again to the rim and gets the and 1
- Frye's three cuts it to 41-44. Bench way outplaying starters. Again
- Louuuuuuu w/ the block
- Nash and Hill back in 5:02. Suns down 43-49. Dragic sits. I'm worried...
- I love that Nash/Amare slipped pick play. Almost always results in something good. I would run that about 20 times in a row
- Surprisingly, Hill's 1 on 2 defense doesn't work
- Robin is not having a good game. And his shirt is untucked as well
- Strong move by Robin!! Great dunk-ish
- Amare in and then right back out. Frye and Robin on the floor together
- Dirk could hit a jump shot with a hand inside his eyeballs and another squeezing his balls
- 55-59...not bad after that start
- Amare has 1 rebound
3rd Qtr
- Love walking by all the rich people at the AOT lounge under stands. They all look at me an I can tell they are thinking, "there goes that blogger..."
- Suns have more points in the paint, more second chance points, more rebounds, are shooting better but also gave up 16 points off turnovers
- They just whistled Grant Hill for "impedance". Aren't you supposed to get in the other guys way?
- Grant slowly walked up court and never got into the play which took 10 seconds to develop. Grant really is getting old
- Tie game at 62
- Tie game at 64
- Dirk much more physical then he used to be
- Robin just motioned Amare to get the hell out of the low block. Amare did
- Nice iso drive by JRich on Kidd
- Love being able to hear refs and coaches yell at eachother
- Grant doing a fab job on Dirk....as much as you can on Dirk that is
- Wow! Frye just rocked the rim! Hoop is still swaying
- Suns keeping it close. Much better defense this half
- Hill picks up his 4th foul...Mavs are going to Dirk over and over and over. Can you blame them?
- Mavs not doing a good job defending the middle pick and roll. Amare getting to the line a lot
- Dirks, spin fadeaway is the prettiest shot in basketball and completely indefensible
- 90-84 after buzzer beater from Barea
4th Qtr
- Right before the 4th qtr started I locked eyes with Goran and he looked at me as if to say, 'I got this'
- Clark is a black hole on offense
- Thank you, Goran for that three. I know you hit that one just for me as payback for having faith in you when no one else did
- Clark with the three!!! That had to be his first three of his career to close it to 90-92. Both teams still shooting lights out
- Frye thinks he's Dirk and tries the turnaround fade-away. He's not Dirk
- I want to see Goran get really aggressive here and start looking for his shot
- 97-98 Mavs...getting there. Dudley is inside Dirks shorts
- I have a pretty damn good view of the Suns dancers....dancing
- Nash in, Dragic out but Dudley playing the 2 with Hill at 3, Lou and Frye up front
- OOOOH Louuuuu Slam to give Suns lead
- Mavs 5 fouls in this quarter. Suns none
- Crowd groans as Hill passes up an open three
- Sending Lou to the line is probably better than letting Suns shoot
- Suns really picking up the intensity...Amare benched for the end of the game?
- This unit is playing great. Solid D. Rebounding and still scoring the ball
- Nash with the three!! That extra rest Goran gives him really helps down the stretch
- Suns up 105-100. 3 min to go
- Mavs have gone w/ 3 guards most of this quarter
- Wow - tough shot by Barea right over Frye's arms. Ouch
- No jinx, but this would be a tough loss
- Dudley D'ing it up!!!
- Lou with the underhand scoop off the pick and roll! Amare who?
- Wonder if we are suddenly going to hear about some kind of Amare "ailment"
- Marion with the gift to his old team! Misses the bunny!
- 3pt lead. 42 seconds. Suns ball. A bucket here is huge
- AND NASH DELIVERS!!!
- Suns up 5 with 30 seconds. Mavs ball
- Gentry not screwing around. Nash out for the defensive possession. Amare benched. He doesn't care about trades or who's making how much money. He wants this game
- 2nd unit and bench players D won this game. Gentry with the balls to bench Amare as well
- Dragic with the great D. Nice way to close it out
You may not resume your regularly scheduled trade talk.
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WOOOOOO!!!!
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
That picture of Amare makes me really sad
He looks so happy and engaged.
That picture coupled with the Adande piece in the daily dime now has me feeling confused.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Amare's Rebound
Wow, that was awesome. Rebound of the game! There should be no question Amare is starting All-Star talent.
Where are all those Golden State Warriors trolls now?
i hate to say it, but this game more than any other proved to me that we can in fact win without amare. just by pure scrapping, rough defense, and nash running the floor instead of giving amare some of his iso possessions.
sometimes on the O nash gives it up to amare for an iso possession, and honestly in the past couple years i cringe everytime i see one of those possessions.
The 4th quarter showed exactly what's wrong and what's right with this team.
Amare, Amare, Amare. that’s all you need to know.
This team plays better without him, simply because he’s not there to disrupt the flow and timing of this team. Look, there’s no denying his talent, but he’s a selfish player, who fake hustles.
Truth be told, against my better judgment, he had me fooled at the start of this season, but that was because without his mobility, and subsequent ability to score, he had to find other ways to stay on the floor, and that meant doing the dirty work that needed to be done, like boxing out for your teammates’ rebound, setting picks, and playing help defense. It was good to see that.
However, the return of his mobility also brought back “Stat”, the selfish, points obsessed, box-score oriented player. And that messed this team up.. badly, and spread to other players.
I’m done with him. don’t be fooled by what he says.. he’s like one of those actresses who lose on Oscar night, say that they’re honored to be nominated, but underneath are all bitterness and jealousy.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Jan 29, 2010 1:27 AM MST reply actions
I don't agree with u thoroughly...
you sound a little over the top with these comment. Amare isn’t as selfish as you try to portray him. However, I do agree with you when you say this team can win without him. Actually, we already knew that. When he went down in 2005 we all witnessed it. That is still my favorite Suns team. Sure we were short but we played better D than any Nash-Suns team and were still a great offense.
Part fo me would like him to stay, I’ve always felt bipolar in regard to Amare, I loved him and “hated” (so to speak) him but he’s a good player, just not what we need. And not at the price he’s asking. At this point the best we can do is trade him for a youngster who can play a little D and maybe grow into a real star (see: Anthony Randolph).
by Lorenzo Franceschi Bicchierai on Jan 29, 2010 2:01 AM MST up reply actions
You’re the first person I have seen come close to sharing my thought about 2005-06, Mr. Bicchierai. I think 2005-06 was the team’s best shot at a championship, mainly because the Mavericks took out the Spurs for us.
True...
That team would’ve been eaten alive by the Spurs for the same reason they always beat us. The series against the Mavs was really close and god knows what would’ve happened with a healthy Bell. Plus, had we gotten to the Finals we would’ve crushed the Heat. Shaq was not going to play a lot with our supersmall lineup. A part from the Horry-incident year I think that was our best shot.
by Lorenzo Franceschi Bicchierai on Jan 29, 2010 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
I think it’s not clear that the Spurs would have eaten the 2005-06 Suns alive. Kurt Thomas was probably brought in specifically to counter the Spurs, and Boris Diaw might have played as well against them as he did against the Mavericks.
by species8473 on Jan 29, 2010 11:15 AM MST up reply actions
Interesting point
about Amare being more of a team / do other things guy early in the season and then losing that…
I would point out though that in December he had a long stretch of double digit rebounding games and on many nights was clearly the most active player on the floor and really was giving it his all.
This latest decline actually seems to coincide with the first reports of trade stuff and extension talks from a few weeks ago. It seems that he’s realizing that the Suns don’t value him the way he sees himself and that’s impacting his performance…
In fact, I might ask him exactly that question if I get the chance today
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 29, 2010 8:52 AM MST up reply actions
Without Amare's 22 points and drives to the rim for easy fouls - we don't win this game.
The right players being in at the right time won this game. Don’t make this win something that it’s not.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Finally something I agree with
The 2nd unit played with energy and was able to help pull out the win. I said in a reply the other day that Amundson needed more minutes and that at times we needed to go with a more defensive unit. Who knew Gentry was reading!
But Amar’e still dropped 22, which means we were in the game to begin with. Without him…we’d have been down big and don’t win. All the Amar’e haters need to chill and be very careful with what you ask for.
I also agree with Seth that Amar’e started Jan on a tear. Then has been up and down lately, probably as a result of the soap opera involving him…call it maybe a little short timer’s disease because the future is uncertain. No different than any of us in the midst of a possible job change. Not to make excuses, but it’s to be expected.
I still don’t understand all the angst directed at Amar’e. The man is an all star player, he’s a 20/10 power forward and we would not have won over the past 6 years without him, nor will we win without him or a player of that caliber. I have yet to see a trade that brings us a 20/10 guy that would replace him. I get it that some might be upset that he wants a max contract (like none of us have asked for a bigger raise than maybe we were due). But as an all star, you can argue he’s one of the top 10 players in the league as voted by…US. But still some are saying he can’t do this or can’t do that. How many other guys out there have put up 20/10 numbers for the past 3-4 years?
He's not a 20-10 player
He’s never been a 20-10 player.
He’s never averaged double digits in rebounds.
If you’re going by All-Star voting, then apparently Al Horford is one of the best players in the league.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Better example
apparently Iverson is one of the best players in the league today. I honestly don’t think STAT would have been voted in as a reserve if the fans hadn’t voted him in.
I agree
We all want to fall in love. Why?
Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,
where every sense is heightened,
and every emotion is magnified.
Our everyday reality is shattered
and we are flying into the heavens.
It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon,
but that doesn't diminish its value,
because we are left with memories
that we treasure for the rest of our lives.
You're right
He’s been a 20-9.9 player, or currently a 20-8.9 player but never a 20-10 guy…
That doesn’t sound weird to you? Come on.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
9.9?
His highest rebounding average is 9.6 in 06/07, when he was deservedly selected for All-NBA 1st team.
Stoudemire is a career 8-9 rpg player. The fact remains that he has never averaged double digits in boards, even though it is well within his ability to do so. There are very few 20/10 guys in the league, and he is not one of them.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
What about Marion? Rodman? Barkley?
Rebounding is about effort. When Amare puts forth the effort, it results in pretty epic results; however, those efforts are few and far between.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
This could also be a wakeup call for him
He now knows he will sit if he doesn’t hustle, and perhaps we will see a new Amare for the limited time he has left…
Coaching
This one goes to AG and the bench. Watching Amare turnover the ball again and again and again… might as well hand the ball to Dallas and save some energy. I was cringin the whole time waiting for Alvin to reinsert the Bench that got us close in the 2nd. I think now is the perfect time for AG to forget egos and paychecks so we can make it to the playoffs.
The Suns - Never fails to disappoint 53% of the time, all the time.
Yes-Props to AG
Yes….Ballsy to hold Amare out, but the right decision….
Notice Amare cheering on his teammates in the 4th-It looked legit to me.
The second unit seems to has jelled emotionally. They look like they all have some really good chemistry and take pride in being the guys who play defense.
Loved what I saw from Amundson (offensively believe it or not…he even made a free throw or more), Dragic looks great, Earl Clark played with the most confidence I’ve ever seen him.
Great win, something to build on, hopefully.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 7:00 AM MST up reply actions
I still
don’t like his decision making on offense…he’s a black hole right now. Needs to “let the game come to him” a bit more and pick his spots but it is nice to see him slowly earn minutes
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 29, 2010 8:16 AM MST up reply actions
But still
i reckon its better for a rookie to have the confidence to take shots and miss them, than for him to be too passive and almost scared to take shots.
Yeah, finding the balance is a process all rookies have to go through.
But i think that confidence is a good sign for the future.
could be....
things like this are why I am on the fence about him…I see the talent and he is working hard and I see things that really worry me about his game.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 29, 2010 10:46 AM MST up reply actions
i agree 100%
it’s wierd but i always feel like he just looks unnatural out there… like he doesn’t quite have a good feel for the game… hopefully will come with minutes though
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions
Anybody else notice
how hard he dribbles the ball?
I think it’s just a sign of his nervousness and him being tense b/c he feels the pressure of having to perform or sit as a rookie.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Clark did hit a 3, got the shooters bounce too!
Afterwards they panned to Steve Nash who looked like a parent whose kid hit their first little league home run.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 10:40 AM MST up reply actions
Good coaches do that...
Have to sometimes send a message to players and the only card a coach really has is PT. If Amare isn’t going to give 100% effort on all ends of the court he needs to have his minutes reduced. Great, ballsy decision by Gentry.
It's more complex
than that….these guys aren’t college kids. They get paid big money and the team and (most) fans expect stars to play. You also are dealing with complex people that respond differently to criticism.
I don’t know where you (all) work but the same is true anywhere. You can call out one person publicly for a poor showing on their TPS Report and that person will step up. For another person they might end up hording staplers and live in the basement…or whatever
It was a ballsy move b/c it was risky which also means it has the potential to backfire. Remember last season early on when Porter got in Amare’s face during a game and Amare responded for the rest of that game? But from then on Amare started tuning Porter out and his overall level of play declined. There was more to it than that of course but…you know
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Jan 29, 2010 8:50 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
it is true that people respond to criticism differently but at some point it become time to dish it out… Amare was clearly showing a lack of effort and interest and Gentry called him out indirectly by keeping him on the bench in crunch time… hopefully Amare will respond to that like a man, take the criticism and grow from it(like most successful people do)… but your right he could get pissy about it and give even less effort… i guess we will see how much character Amare has
i think the fact that the move may backfire was fine in this circumstance as the team has been in a major rut… if it backfires then we are essentially in the same losing boat as before
If it backfires
it will show us what we need to know b4 the trade deadline
Thing is nobody called Amare out
So this is a difference scenario than you stated and much different than the Porter situation. Not a single person will respond well to publicly being called out.
You are overgeneralizing.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Recc'd for office space references
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions
I get the overplayed office space references
Being in a masters in business program right now I have dealt with a lot of people and developed those “people skills” along the way and that’s just not how you handle situations with others, publicly calling out others is a power play and is not not a good solution to improve any situation.
gentry wasn’t really calling Amare out that much… he was sending a message yes but it was subtle and well deserved… but it isn’t like he embarassed Amare in front of a large group of people… he will most likely chalk Amare not playing up to the fact that the 2nd unit was hot…
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 10:59 AM MST up reply actions
2nd unit
Full credit to Gentry for his bold moves 2nyt and also to the 2nd unit and grant hill for there outstanding defense.
I loved finally watching us win today but best part by a mile was watching our 2nd unit in lou, dudley, clark, even frye and especially goran “frosty” dragic.
I hope this opened the eyes of the suns and gentry to realise the way you close out games is with solid defense and good but patient execution on the offensive end.
I also hope we start seeing more and more of these 2nd unit players getting played minutes wise.
I think when we trade amare, hopefully also get rid of richardson and also with hill getting abit older and his body declining this will leave open the minutes i speak of above for those guys.
We just closed out the Mavs perfectly
This could very well be who we see in the 1st round when we nab the 5-7 seed!
Suck on that Jason Terry
If any of you guys watched the game on TNT, I’m sure you’ve heard Jason Terry’s interview with Cheryl Miller. He called out the Suns’ weak defense and said they have to be able to score against the Suns since their defense isn’t that good. How ironic that the Suns would come out to defend and close out the game and shut the Mavs down to only 16 points in the 4th. I don’t know if it’s sweet irony or just karma biting the Jet in the butt.
by NashMV3 on Jan 29, 2010 3:00 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
That is what we needed
The suns showed some grit and balls in the 4Q. I think that they actually played defense. Too bad it took so many games for this to come out. Kudos to Gentry for benching Amare “the turnover machine” (he was killing us the last half of the 3Q).
I have ragged on the suns for not having enough balls and pride to close out close games. Tonight I give them kudos and hope that they not only broke the TNT jinx but also got the “soft” monkey off their backs for good.
I have been a big
proponent of trading Amare since this summer. I still think that this is the course of action that Kerr must take. Nothing personal, he is a scorer, who has benefited from playing with a point guard that gets him in offensive position better than anyone on this planet. I just hope not every GM was watching the game last night to lower his trade value. He needs to be moved and hopefully the Suns will get some decent return, I am not holding my breath.
I don’t recall a Mav’s game that the Suns defended Dirk that well. Dudley and Grant were great. The bench was outstanding. I really think Dragic is going to be a real good player.
Credit to Gentry. Stuck to what was working and rode it out. A huge win.
Time out time out.
I think we are all blowing this Amare thing waaay out of proportion. Yeah it was interesting that Amare only played 26 minutes and that included none of the last 8 minutes of the game. But we can’t go making a mountain out of a mole hill. Its a little disturbing, actually, to hear some people in here destroy Amare for this game. Lopez didn’t get played either and Nash was consistently traded out for Goran. Does that mean that they should sell Nash? Should we be bagging on Nash too?
The fact is, Amare was not having a poor game except in the rebounding department and, frankly, we still beat them in total rebounds so I am not all that concerned about it. Someone was pulling rebounds down, tonight wasn’t Amare’s night. Even the best rebounders have bad nights. Moreover, our second unit was playing suberbly well at the end. THAT, my friends, is why you don’t take them out. Not because Amare doesn’t necessarily “play defense” (which I think is silly…of course he does). When players are hot you leave them in. It just so happened that they left them in at a good moment and it panned out. What if the second unit had lost the game for us? My guess is we would have been hearing a lot of the following: “Why on earth are they sitting their All-Star PF for the last 8 minutes of the game!” “gentry should be fired for that lineup.” “Dragic still has a ways to go and the second team is just slumping right now…” etc.
Lets try to take a step back and get some perspective here…Amare still averages 8.5 rebounds a game…he didn’t get that by laying around.
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jan 29, 2010 7:12 AM MST reply actions 4 recs
Just a little perspective
Lets look at the stats last night for STAT. Sure he had 22 points, but he had 5 turnovers that turned into 6-8 points for the Mavs and only 1 board. The 1 rebound instead of the 8-10 he should get means that the Mavs probably had 2-3 offensive rebounds and put backs. Do the math, that is 10-16 points that we lost because of that. That means his 22 wer more like 6-12. I know we talk about Nash’s turnovers, but he handles the ball 80-90 percent of the time when he is on the floor, whereas Amare is maybe 5-10 percent. That is bad. I don’t know if it is a vision problem, hands problem, concentration problem, or lazy problem. The point is that it is a problem. You said something like even great rebounders have bad games, but he is averaging less than 5 rebounds over the last 5 games. I am not so much upset with Amare as dissapointed. There was all this talk over him having a beastly year, and I have not seen it at all. He hasn’t had a 40 point game all year and disappears. What happened. The last 2 games he played last year he had over 40 points. My biggest question is “Will the real Amare please stand up?, or is he already standing?”
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 29, 2010 9:05 AM MST up reply actions
I think the "real Amare" is the one who scores 21 points and grabs 8 rebounds a night.
Everyone can have a bad stretch. It’s especially understandable given all the rumors swirling around. But Gentry did the right thing by putting in people who would be more effective.
the right thing
ABSOLUTELY. 1) We got the win. 2) If Stat sees it as a message, he might be inspired to play both end better and rebound again. 3) If he takes it badly and self destructs, it will be easier to pull the trigger on a trade cuz he’s not thinking team ball
I think he was acting the part… I was watching the bench as they got animated after Nash made that sweet layup against Nowitzski and other big plays in the 4th and Amare seemed to be the last to get excited and only after his teammates were flipping out… i don’t think he was being genuine at all
Probably depends on the news he gets from his pusher...
…just kidding :p
by Lorenzo Franceschi Bicchierai on Jan 29, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
lol
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
wow...
I haven’t seen one Suns player hated so much since Taylor Griffin was drafted.
by species8473 on Jan 29, 2010 11:19 AM MST up reply actions
Nice.
I think your thoughts are legit. You raise good points. Which of these is Amare? The 21 and 8 or the 20 and 3? I don’t know. And I am like you, I think, in that I am disappointed over Amare’s play more than anything. His turnovers this year have been especially disconcerting and I am not really sure what to make of it. Maybe its the goggles. For whatever reason, Amare has the potential to play really well in the post (see the Hawks game, for example) but doesn’t. I am not sure why but maybe its simply time for a change of scenery. I guess we will see. My only hope is that we, as fans, aren’t sorry for wanting him gone when he explodes into the player we all know he can be.
Reading is good...
AMEN.
Amare has his deficiencies but he is not the sole reason this team has been struggling as of late. Perspective is good and coupled with common sense equals a rec.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Dude you are such a sheep…
The whole Amare gets 8.5 rebounds a game so he must be a good rebounder argument is just nonsense.
The facts are Amare is the 37th ranked PF in rebound rate. Tyler Hansborough, Dante Cunningham, and Nick Collison are ranked higher than him in the percentage of available rebound they grab. He can get over 8 a game because he is on the court so damn much at a position that plays close to the basket. You need to compare him to other players in the league to get an accurate guage of his rebounding (lack of) prowess. And again, pace playes a part.
Of course Amare “plays defense” but he doesn’t do it well.
The perspective you need is that he is a good scorer who looks like a great one because he has Nash. Amare is solid as getting his own shots but without someone to distribute to him his scoring efficiency would drop dramatically.
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 11:40 AM MST up reply actions
You talk about pace.... but
Bring shooting % into it, since we let teams shoot 60 on us there isn’t going to be as many rebounds to go around, same thing on the offensive glass, its tough to grab boards if every shot is going in.
thats why rebound rate is the best indicator of a players rebounding ability
its how many percent of the total rebounds they see that they grab
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
I understand that, but your argument wasn't for rebounding rate it was for total rebounds because our pace is so high.
I’m just telling you how that is not an effective way to gauge Amare’s boards per game.
You also can't argue for many people on that list getting limited minutes
Their role is to come into the game and provide energy etc… but watch them over 38 min like Amare gets and see what their rate is.
You are too narrowly looking at that rate, all of these great %% rebounding PF’s all have some help to box out from their centers in the lane and help clear the lane. Amare has Channing Frye who’s build like a SF…
Additionally it is extremely difficult to grab your own rebound and most of the offense in our front court is Amare so it provides skewed statistics for very low offensive rebounding rate, which in turn lowers overall rebounding rate. If we had a huge low post presence like most of these PF’s on the list have, Amare would be able to get in the lane and clean some of the misses up.
Give him an “in shape” Lopez for the whole year and lets see those statistics. And if that doesn’t help give him some testosterone shots and some good old fashioned McDonalds.
It is since Lopez has been starting that his boards have gone down so don't know if I can agree with you.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 29, 2010 12:20 PM MST up reply actions
I have noticed that.
Not sure why its happening…but it is interesting all the same.
Reading is good...
But at the same time we are winning the boards consistently. Which is an indication of something.
I think Robin is boxing out and letting people get boards, it is just not Amare right now. But Lopez is not averaging a ton of boards so someone is getting them.
by Suns Fan For Life on Jan 29, 2010 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
GANG REBOUNDING.
Look at everyone’s rebound numbers – a lot of players get rebounds.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
The timelines line up too closely with trade rumours,
its not like lopez is mopping up average a little over 6 boards a game since he’s been starting, AND they just started starting together give it time
The way I see it is Amare is averaging like 3 boards a game over the last 4 games, you can tell the trade stuff is messing with his game.
As for rebounding next to Lopez if we take out the last 4 games when the trade rumors got started. And you look at the games since Lopez has started (ATL) he has averaged 9 boards a game over those games, before the rumors started. I’ll take it.
How do you explain both the rebounding numbers of Al Jefferson and Kevin Love? They’re playing side by side. They both average double digits per game right?
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
You are looking it at from just a numbers point of view
you are saying since there are two big men in the lane their rebounds should be half of what one big man in the lane can get…
you cant just say that since Amare is the only suns player going for boards he should be averaging 20 a night since in Minnesota they have 2 players averaging 10
it is not just simple math to solve this problem, but as you have seen in other teams San Antonio Boston LA where they have a PF and C averaging close to 10 or 10+ a game.
Having Amare in the lane by himself trying to box out 2 or 3 opponents crashing the glass will never work, he is the lone ranger trying to scavenge for boards. He needs another big body in the lane to help with the box outs and he certainly needs help crashing the glass so that 3 opponents can’t box out 1 player (Amare). The opponents in the lane will have to box out other Suns players who are also fighting for boards. Leaving more room for Amare to battle 1 on 1 and not 1 on 3
this still is not true...
it only looks like this because amare isn’t crashing but standing behind a bunch of defenders
A "sheep" huh?
I’m not really sure what that means but, as usual, I am pretty sure you are trying to be insulting in an attempt to belittle my intelligence. Whatever. Its your prerogative.
1) I never said Amare was a great rebounder. I said he gets 8.5 rebounds a game and that doesn’t happen by laying around. You can talk about pace all you want and I won’t disagree with you. But the fact is, Amare averages 8.5 rebounds a game. Sure, he may get a low percentage of “available” rebounds, but he is still getting rebounds. My point was that the fact that the Suns beat the Mavs on the board means that SOMEONE on the team was pulling down rebounds. What that tells me is that, for the most part, the Suns play a team rebounding game. Its a little bit suspect to blame Amare for his lack of rebounding when is the only big man on the court most of the time capable of boxing out opposing centers. We all know Amare is not a center in terms of size so its tough. His rate is better than Landry…and Jamison….and Brand…and David West. And those are all names that have been mentioned in the Amare trade conversation.
2) Amare’s defense is not that bad. You need to stop reading RealGM or Gambo or Hollinger or whoever it is that your reading. Go watch the games. There are a ton of guys who play worse D than Amare. The difference is, and I will maintain this until proven otherwise, that Amare is surrounded by NO ONE that plays good defense. In fact, he has NEVER been surrounded by that. Its tough to bag on a guy who’s defense is a little suspect when everyone else on the court is making it easy for the opposing team to get into the lane or dish to a post player.
Dont be a duschbag. My post was about people needing to step back a bit from bagging on Amare for his poor rebounding performance and his being sat during the 4th. But it is logically inconsistent to bag on Amare for that when Lopez and Nash were also out for most of the 4th as well and no one is saying anything. My problem is guys like you who are kicking Amare and blaming all of the Suns problems on him when, really, he has been the only consistent presence on this team in the last month. Thats not to say that he deserves a MAX or that he shouldn’t be traded. But that is to say that your scapegoating of Amare looks childish and is largley unreasonable as is most of the other Amare-scapegoating that I see.
Reading is good...
Can i make 2 points?
1- For a guy with Amar’es size and athleticism at our pace, 8.5 rebounds per game isn’t that hard to do- it is pretty much consensually agreed that Amar’e cold easily average double digit rebounds if he put his mind into it.
2- Those stories about Amar’es bad defense don’t come out of nowhere. He is nowhere near the type of defender he potentially could be, and say all you want about the whole team being bad defenders but the fact of the matter is that the second STAT gets into the slightest bit of foul trouble he gets even WORSE on D, effectively laying out the welcome mat on D and letting anyone past.
you have to want to play defense and rebound. it comes from deep inside of you that makes you want to be great in all aspects of your game. Amare does not have that drive. He only wants to score points.
"Stop denying the inevitable, the time has come to rebuild"
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With Shaq Amare averaged 9.5 with Kurt Thomas he averaged 9.3
The thing you guys dont seem to understand is team rebounding. Some of the greatest rebounding teams in the league such as Denver has 4 players crash the glass. He has to have help on the boards, I am so sick of hearing that it is his laziness being the reason, if he had more help with bodies in the lane he could be much more successful. We gave him help on the boards with Marion and Diaw and he was even much better those years averaging 9+++.
Granted he has been lazy over the last 4 but that is from other reasons. But if he is the #2 rebounder on the team (as every PF is) I am happy with him at 9+.
With all due respect buddy, thats BS
Team rebounding is important, no denying that but because Amar’e is paired with such a weak rebounder in Frye he should be getting more rebounds. Take Boston as an example, they have a great team rebounding rate because KG and Perkins are both great rebounders but neither KG or Perk average double digit rebounds because there simply aren’t enough to go around. So amar’e, with Frye as a weak rebounder should be able to get more rebounds.
read my above post
amare is battling against 2 or 3 opponents in the lane for boards at all times by himself 3 opponents boxing out 1 guy no wonder he is having problems
What about Rodman? Marion? Barkley?
Rebounding is more about effort than size. When Amare puts forth the effort, it results in pretty epic results; however, those efforts are few and far between.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Where did marions numbers go?
He was the top 3 rebounder in the league on a horrible rebounding team no wonder he averaged 10+
So why couldn't Amare be a top 3 rebounder in the league on a horrible rebounding team?
By your logic he should be averaging 10+, right?
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
how many of those rebounds were from marion boxing out in the lane??
he guarded the SF or SG position mostly its not like he was muscling his way in the lane boxing out etc… he was just crashing the glass and getting loose balls.
Not to discredit that crashing the glass, we absoltly need that
But being a great rebounder means you are putting your ass on someone being a force. Marion was never a force.
I think that actually emphasizes my point
Marion got those boards because he put forth the effort, even though he was small dude. If Amare put forth the effort(and we know he can, we’ve SEEN him do it!), then he’d be a much better rebounder.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
And he guarded the PF position a lot too
Since we played him at PF. I remember him boxing out Garnett and Nowitzki for boards many times.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I know man
But there was SOMEBODY in the lane doing the hard work, getting banged around getting bruised up pushing people out fighting for boards. It wasn’t marion.
Amare does that for us granted he sux at it because he is little but thats not h is fault, but nobody else is. With Shaq Amare’s rebounding numbers were better, shaq was doing that work and amare wasn’t the focus on the box outs.
Amar'e and rebounding
An issue we’re not considering here when we bring up Marion: On that squad we never ran plays for Shawn. He was sort of like Ceballos in that he played off the ball and found ways to get to the rim for rebounds. We do typically run plays for Amar’e, usually pick and rolls near the top of the key. So #1, he’s taking lots of shots and is not going to be down low for rebounds. #2 – our scheme doesn’t exactly call for anyone to be down low unless they’re posting up. Amar’e is not a post up kind of guy so he’s usually going to be roaming. #3 because of the 7SOL style we used to play, everyone is geared to grab a rebound and head up court. Well the guy who used to key those was generally Marion. Since he left, we don’t have that player, but the other guys, Amar’e included are looking to get up court to score. So some of this is Gentry having to get guys to relearn things so that someone is focused on rebounding. Whether that’s Amar’e or not I really don’t care, but like last night someone did. That’s all that counts. Like someone mentioned the team needs to rebound better and we can’t put the entire burden on Amar’e. If he grabs 8-10 boards, and is scoring 20+ I think he’s doing his job.
Ive been saying that for weeks about team rebounding so thank you.
And your points 1 and 2 are only for offensive rebounding, I couldn’t care less about his offensive rebounding skills, I only want him to nab the defensive ones.
Additionally Marion often times started the fast break from getting a loose ball rebound but there has to be someone down low to create ruckus so that we can have guys crashing the glass and nabbing some of those boards.
"results in epic results"
Wow….apparently my vocabulary is limited.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I agree man even though Barkley and Rodman have large asses
Amare has never been criticized for being lazy ever, he works on his game constantly.
I really think it is just a repercussion from our system playing small and wanting to get on the break so there is nobody there to help him clean up the glass.
I watch about 75% of the games
I also watch about 75% of Bucks games and a couple other games a week because I have league pass and the NBA is by far my favorite sports league to watch. I guarantee I watch more professional basketball than you do and have better insights on it to boot.
You are delusional. First of all Amare is a poor defender and everyone except you knows that. And two, good defenders make their teammates better. So you must think Dwight Howard is only a good defender because he solid defenders as teammates. Sorry, he elevates them not the other way around. Good defenders and max players elevate their teammates level of play not the other way around.
But you're valuing your subjective opinion over hard statistics
And I don’t understand how you can say he’s never been surrounded by good defenders. Kurt Thomas, Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell…they were all great defenders.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I do not think anyone on that list other than Marion was a great defender
Just because they are the prettiest girl in the pig pen does not make them great defenders. Boris Diaw was not a great defender, only an average one and his long arms are the sole reason he was somewhat successful, never got criticized for his rebounding even though he has a much bigger build than Amare and should be averaging 10+ boards as well. And Raja was only a good perimeter defender, he got posted up and was embarrassed.
"Raja was only a good perimeter defender"
I don’t expect my SGs to be good at post defense….that’s what your bigs(cough AMARE cough) are supposed to do.
I disagree with you at Boris. He was a very competent post defender, and his length allowed him to come out on the perimeter.
Perhaps KT wasn’t a “great” defender but he gave us the best post defense that we’ve ever had.
It’s not a coincidence that our best defensive team was without Amare. With a healthy Kurt Thomas, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, and Boris Diaw, we were FIFTH in defensive efficiency up through January of the 05/06 season. Then KT got injured.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
There are plenty of SG's that can defend the post
JRICH can, I’m not talking about a larger player posting Im talking about another SG posting Raja Bell I never said he was not a good defender but to call him a great defender who consistently got burned in the post by equal sized or smaller players does not = great defender.
And if you remember that was one of the reasons we got rid of Boris… his lack of defensive tenacity… I was very pleased to get rid of that lazy piece.
Okay, I misunderstood your point about Raja
Re: Boris. I remember his passivity on offense being much more of a problem than anything else. I don’t remember an uproar about his defense.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
And I think one of the reasons Boris didn't catch as much flak as Amare did for his rebounding
Is because he’s essentially a big small forward. Even then, in 05/06 he averaged 6.9 rpg, and in addition, dished out 6.2 apg.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Is that acceptable though?
He definitely weighs more than Amare, and I guarantee matches Amares wingspan why cant your beloved Boris average more boards a game?
One the guy was a guard all growing up and in college i believe
two, just like amare he doesn’t try as hard as he could
I agree with most of your post
Except A)he really is a terrible defender. His defensive stats were second to last for a PF last season, but at least he was ahead of Al Jefferson
and B)His TOs were hurting us as well.
Dude should be able to grab 10 boards any time. He just apparently either doesn’t care or chooses not to.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I don't think they win this w/out STAT
I know the 4th Q was successful without him but the we’d have been down by a whole lot more without his offensive production in the 1st 3 Q’s. He’s definitely a liability most nights on defense (especially when they’re switching on screens) but PHX needed his scoring punch. He was able to score by facing up & attacking the rack as well as running PnR’s. This win was a complete TEAM effort and to detract from his contribution isn’t fair just because most of us want him (or consider him) as good as gone in the near future. If this rotation is the most successful then I’m all for it, but STAT is still a pretty big cog in this machine (offensively, anyway) and as we witnessed the past few games, if he’s not filling it up winning games are alot more difficult…
I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t go, I just hope they don’t trade him for a washing machine and a few $$$$. Get something VALUABLE in return-preferably someone who can add some punch in the low post…
I need a ring, DAMMIT!!
True
the other night when we played Chicago Amare was the ONLY one on the court who seemed worth the money we were paying. EVERYONE played horribly, even Nash. Same can be said of several other games. I didn’t hear anyone talking bad about Amare then. If anything we were wanting to sign him again.
More often than not this team is in need of interior scoring because their shots are not falling. When we do, Amare is the guy. Tonight that shots were falling so everyone forgets that we NEED interior scorers which he don’t really have outside of Amare. Again, perspective is required here…
Reading is good...
I was talking bad about him then because his scoring is not the issue. It’s how he thinks that he doesn’t have to play defense and rebounding because he gets his on the offensive end.
NEWS FLASH - you always talk bad about him...
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
All of this arose from him wanting a max deal so i merely pointed out his deficiencies at rebounding and playing defense
I like Amare as a piece but I like the Suns more and for their long term best interests they need to either sign him to a reasonable deal or trade him for pieces that fit better
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 11:03 AM MST up reply actions
Regardless of what kind of money he wants to make
it seems like only the negative aspects of his game (and every player not namd LeBron or Kobe has negative aspects in their game) are being remembered day in and day out here. Balance and moderation are good. 22 points last night on amazing shooting percentages is nothing to vomit on.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
But you act like he is a bad person for wanting a max deal.
But we all know there are 10 teams in the league who will give him one, after Lebron, Wade, Bosh are signed…
Most people in most professions want max pay for their job. He’s not a bad person for wanting it. It is, however, unrealistic to expect it when there are questionable aspects of his game.
And as far as the 10 teams, most of them he would kill the trade for because he wants to go to a contender
He does not care about going to a contender. Hes not stupid, he knows he's not going to get that kind of money on a contender
Considering every current contender wouldn’t have the room for him (except Cleveland). He has even said he would love to say in PHX if we give him his money, I do not think he considers us contenders.
ok, too strong a word
Not contender. A team with the deire AND the means to build into a contender. A lot of the teams expressing an interest in him don’t have both
I think its more about location
Chicago is going to suck for a long time with or without Amare but the city is great. Miami may loose Wade and will suck for a long time if 40M is locked up in 2 players but Miami is awesome. NY, same thing. I think he is just smart and doesn’t want to rot and freeze to death in Minnesota or Wisconsin.
I don't think this is true.
They have a great point guard in Derrick Rose, and a solid center in Noah. If they can dump some of their lame contracts (Deng, Hinrich, Salmons), land a marquee free agent, hire an actual head coach, and continue to draft well, then they’ll be fine.
So the part about Chicago sucking is not true? Or about him wanting to be in a cool city?
And you must be seeing something in Noah I don’t see…
About not sucking.
As far as Noah … he averages 11 points, 12 rebounds, and nearly 2 blocks a game. Plus, he’s one of the best post defenders in the league. He’s not a superstar, but I’d rather have him at center than a lot of other guys.
Agreed.
I loved Noah ever since he was in college. He is a great center and he could totally be in a championship team that doesn’t need him to score points. Actually a frontcourt of Amare+Noah would be great, especially if you remember they got Rose too. Plus Noah would hide Amare’s defensive deficiencies.
by Lorenzo Franceschi Bicchierai on Jan 29, 2010 12:25 PM MST up reply actions
I love Noah, he's one of my favourite centers in the league
behind D. Howard and Kendrick Perkins.
Im with You on Amare
Why not sit the guy if it’s not working out? Sure he scored, but those turnovers are momentum killers, and Lou was battling like a champion.
At this point you gotta go with what works, and it was working without the guy. Doesn’t mean he’s in the doghouse or whatever….
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions
Amundson
Lou Amundson keeps validating my belief that, just for playing his * off, he deserves to start.
by species8473 on Jan 29, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
Dude
(thanks by the way) I love your profile pic. What are you drinking there? Hope its something tasty.
Reading is good...
Gracias
In Barcelona drinking most likely a San Miguel. Good times.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 2:07 PM MST up reply actions
wow
that was a pretty lame recap…sorry guys. I didn’t give it a Max effort last night (actually early this morning)
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
it's ok we will just call you an "Amare" then
Amare – noun – one who has talent but doesn’t give max effort and fails to maximize their potential
suns future
One of the biggest things I’m taking from the play of the bench is hope for the future. Not too long ago the question on everyones mind was “do we blow it up now or wait out the Nash era, then blow it up” Why? Because we had aging starters and no bench. I am truely starting to believe no blow up is neccessary. Dragic is developing into the heir-apparent to Nash that was hoped, but with better D. Duds—-wow. Looouuuu. Keep getting these guys minutes and have confidence in them like in this game. If we have to trade Stat, then do it for a well rounded player. We dont need his points if we can keep the other team from scoring and limit 2nd, 3rd chance points.
I'm Not Sure
You can say Dudley was in a slump. I do think the increased minutes may have tested his focus and or conditioning. I’m too lazy to look at numbers but I’m thinking he needed a few games to adjust to his role.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions
it is hard to say he was in a slump because he gets less minutes to prove himself every night… i think that is a very hard thing to come off the bench knowing you will only get a handful of minutes… this accentuates your successes and failures since there is a far more limited time to judge a bench player than a starter who nets 40 minutes
if nash misses his first 4 shots he can still come back and finish with a really strong game because he has the time to do it… if dudley does how many more shots is he really going to get
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 11:06 AM MST up reply actions
lol
“Right before the 4th qtr started I locked eyes with Goran and he looked at me as if to say, ‘I got this’”
Love the quote Stan i thought before game we would loose and tnt curse would continue so i thought we would not win the game.
from hightlighs and quotes nice to see Coach man up and grow a pair cos if we would have lost this one im sure people would be saying get rid of Amare and Gentry.
Still think get Amare involved in first quarter and only play him 25-30 mins and i do think his high TO is because of his eye wear and distraction from trade talk. i still think Kerr will trade Amare him to the east to either miami or chicago.
The caption I see for the first photo with Goran and Clark...
Goran: “I can show you the world, shining, shimmering, splendid…”
Bright Side of the Sun, where Suns basketball never looked so good.
and Clark's response
“Yo man, you got your arm around me, just chill.”
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 10:53 AM MST up reply actions
Great win!
And totally worth staying up to watch.
Remember the last time we went to the Western Conference Finals? We didn’t have Amar’e that season. Just saying.
And we looked great last night down the stretch. I really enjoy our 2nd unit and the rest of the bench, and leads me to believe that there will be Life After Nash. Maybe we can pull something together here after all.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Jan 29, 2010 11:00 AM MST reply actions
Fun game last night!
Good to see we can win down the stretch without Amare. I don’t understand all the talk about us being in complete rebuilding mode if we trade him. He’s a great offensive player, but we have a lot of great offensive players.. and with Nash, a D-leaguer could start and put up at least 14 a night.
Goran looked great. His confidence is definitely through the roof right now! I love it!
Clark looked maybe the best I’ve seen him defensively, but I definitely agree with Stan.. err Seth, that he needs to slow it down on the offensive end.
And how about Grant Hill! In a defensive stance talking trash to Kidd. Awesome!
Don't believe that...
Phoenix Stan was the victim of a bear attack…
Seth is his replacement with a surprisingly similar writing style
by Superelkman on Jan 29, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
The bear's smell menstruation...
“See Ron, now you’re putting the whole station at risk!”
Sorry saw an opening for an Anchorman reference.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Jan 29, 2010 2:09 PM MST up reply actions
a bear attack in Phoenix?
a bear in a desert? lol
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
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