The Amare Shift - Phoenix Fandom and the Love-Hate Relationship

everyone considers Pau Gasol soft. I know I do.

Suns were average defense with Marion and Bell and when we threw them away, we expected Amare to lead the defense..not happening..Lakers have a good body at center and we don’t (RoLo needs to develop fast and a lot)..when Amare doesn’t give his effort (like 1 off rebound in 27min and no effort), I’m forced to say get rid of Amare for a solid center

Terrific. Outstanding. One of the top 10 in the league.

The problem is the Suns are still a phenomenal offensive team even w/o him (as evidenced by the last 30 games last season and 05/06). Nash has proven over the past decade that he can make offensive lemonade out of lemons. If he’s the PG of a team, they’re going to be good offensively. Unfortunately on defense the Suns are toast because of Nash. He just can’t do it. Whether it’s his size, strength, or effort (and I don’t think it’s effort), Nash is not a good defender.

So it makes sense to trade Amare, especially if we get a great defender back who is decent on offense (Iguodala, I’m looking your way). I say, find 4 terrific defenders to surround Nash and he’ll find a way to get some great offensive production out of them.

Great piece. I think you nailed it on the head. I know that is alot of how I have been feeling. By knowing that he may be leaving I am looking for more reasons why. I have been a long term Suns fan though, and Suns fans do not like Prima Donnas. I think we can all agree that Amare is one. I hear his comments and his tweets and such and find it hard to believe he will ever be a leader. Not only does a leader not demand max money he is willing to take less so that the team can really succeed. This has never been the case, he has always asked for maximum money, and how much money do you really need. He was signed as a max player a few years ago and has missed 1.5 years does that make his per game pay on par with max players. I want to point out that I would love to have Amare around forever, but not at max money. He is not even playing selfishly in order to have the stats to even ask for that. His numbers are down from his best years. You would think in a contract year he would be tearing it up, but not even close. The Bible says “you hate the sin, but love the sinner”. This sums up my thoughts on Amare. Amazing, amazing player, but doesn’t play the game for the right reasons.

I hadn’t followed the NBA for ten years since i moved to the UK and completely by chance i got home from holiday in the middle of the night and caught the 2008 All-star game when amar’e led the west comeback. That got me back into supporting the NBA.

As of right now? Amar’e is great as a fan favourite and fantastic offensive player (other than the turnovers). BUT he thinks he is a max contract/franchise player and therefore he needs to be considered and compared against other max-contract guys like Tim Duncan (and to a lesser extent Pau Gasol). Timmy and Pau both aren’t as physically gifted as Amar’e but both are much better post defenders (Pau’s defensive rating doesn’t convince me, look at his defense of Dwight Howard in the finals and tell me that STAT could do that). They are both also much better rebounders than STAT, Pau might average the same number of boards as Amar’e but he plays fewer minutes and Andrew Bynum is a much better rebounder than Frye so that will also make a difference.

So there we go, as for Amar’e becoming a scapegoat for our recent troubles i will admit that i have become dissillusioned with his effort in the last few games (only one rebound in 3 quaters last night) but i will also admit that he was our best player for much of december when he was averaging 20-10, and that also showed me that he CAN rebound double digits consistently when he puts his mind to it.

I do think he should be traded but not because i blame him for our struggles but because i don’t think he’s worth $20million a year, i think its too late to be gambling on potential, and i definitely don’t want to be stuck with a huge contract for an underperforming player like Philly are with Elton Brand.

1] Why should Amare play hard for Kerr and Sarver who are not interested in making the play-offs? Why else would they be indulging on trade offers mid-season during a time when the Suns are slumping because other teams have adjusted to Gentry’s playbook?

2] Amare averaged 20-10 for a stretch of 10 games until talks began to stall with his contract and news about him being shopped by the Suns around the league became public news. Why would Amare play his heart out for Kerr or Sarver who have clearly turned their backs on him, and it’s not for the first time?

3] Amare played great even after his recent injury and after being almost traded to Golden States, with a better showing of defense than before this season.

4] While Amare’s critics have chosen to make hay about his defense for wanting to be a franchise player, they have opted to refrain from mentioning that the Sun’s franchise player plays no defense and is hailed for being a savior for purely his offensive abilities.

I also want to say that If the Suns want to develop younger players, don’t expect every game will be won as if they are played by Suns veterans who are no longer on the team. A youth movement normally implies a lottery season and this season is one we cannot tank because we lack a pick.

Trying to trade our best offensive weapon clearly meant we have given up on this season and you still expect every Suns players to play their best? And from what I can see, none of the so-called veterans seem to be bringing their A-games these days. They look tired, old and dispirited with all the nonsense the management is indulging.

And the trade mongers are just making things worse.

@ SSOHOWARD

Thanks for bringing up the double standard that I absolutely hate about some of the fans here with their scapegoat mentality towards this team.

1] Nash has more turnovers, plays worse defense and is more of a health risk than Amare. However, he gets free pass from most of the fans here who keeps raising the very same issues about Amare.

2] Nash is the leader of our team, not Amare, and he sets the example for the team. I will never forget how Nash mailed it in in the must-win game against Dallas (last game they played) last season and how it affected everyone else like LB who stopped chasing loose balls.

2] Nash is the face of this franchise and has power than any other player on the team on personnel decisions. Whether he takes less money than Marion and Amare does not not change this fact.

3] Properly motivated, Amare brings it to the court. However, most Suns fans and management only knows how to rain on his parade. No one in their right mind wants to play for an unappreciative fan base and a penny pinching management

Many Suns fans here just throw in the towel when the going’s back, find scape goats and petition to trade them. Kindly take note of how fans from other teams like Celtics stick with their players through thick and thin.

Those are fans worth playing hard for. Suns fans not so much…

1] Nash gets his high assists numbers not just because of the fast pace but because of Amare’s hyper efficient scoring around the rim or the mid-jumper. If you think Nash can keep to the same level of assists without Amare on the team, you must love the fact that our team will have to gamble on the 3 ball every night.

2] Because Amare is so hyper-efficient near the rim or the middle range, he helps provide spacing for our 3-point shooters. Without him, I seriously do not think that Frye or Louis will get the space or opportunities to make as many 3-point shots.

3] Playing our young talent for the 3rd quarter or the 4th is a lot less risky than playing them for all 4 quarters. Subbing them in when starters on both teams are tired makes sense. However, that does not mean Dragic can replace Nash on any night or Lous replace Amare for one entire game. Veteran teams will make an adjustment to rookies playing with just energy and enthusiasm if they have all 4 quarters to make adjustments.

4] We need a trade that will bring us someone who rebounds and scores at will at the 4 or the 5. Kindly take note that people who fit that bill like Z-bo or Al Jefferson does not play better D than Amare, simply because no one has the energy to do everything. Dwight is known for for his defense and rebounding but he doesn’t put up big numbers offensive every night. But does that mean Dwight is a bad offensive player?

5] Amare is playing after a major surgery and he showed he could play well until the trade rumours started, which definitely affected his passion to play hard every night. Compare his performance and speed of recovery to people like Garnett and Al Jefferson and you can tell that Amare peaks and recovers faster than they do.

Seriously do you all really know the value of the person you are scapegoating, discouraging and wanting to trade?

I kept wondering why I even bother following what the Suns do these days because it’s bloody rerun for the last 3 seasons which feature rabid irrational trade mongering and scapegoating, management with no balls or long term strategy and a team concept that will live or die with Nash who is 35.

Did you all seriously think this season will end well?

We will not make the play-offs without Amare and we have no picks for this season even if we intentionally tank.

If you are a real Suns fan, you should support this team even if they don’t make it past he first round simply because the team tried their best. That’s what fans do.

Anything else, you are not a real Suns fan. You are a just bloody big disappointment.

For people with brains, they will know that Kerr and Sarver clearly do not want Amare to “opt-in” to his last year and stay with the Suns, which is why they are making it clear they want him to leave. This so-called trade is a salary dump, nothing more.

So keep championing stupid trade rumours or ideas, because you are dancing and hopping to the 2 great geniuses running the Suns.

Oh yeah, I forgot that most of us here consider ourselves geniuses. That excludes morons like myself who still remains a fan of the Suns even with the rampant stupidity that passes for Suns’ culture these days.

Before the Suns let him know they don’t want him by shopping him openly and the fans started throwing him under the bus.

His offensive and defensive impact on the team are a lot more illuminating than what Amare’s critics are able to acknowledge

Let’s not do cherrypicking of stats, shall we?

Amare also plays average or above average defence when motivated as he has been in the first 2 months of this season before trade talks started. There is ZERO upside to Nash’s health and defensive games in comparison

Amare also shoots the ball almost as well as Dirk and finishes around the rim as good as anyone else. If you can’t admit that, you don’t follow the games closely.

The problem with Amare right now is contained in this quote:

“I know about the rumors. I know what teams are looking. I know what teams want me,” Stoudemire said. “I pretty much know everything — I know what’s going on. I’m definitely in the loop on what’s happening.”

For outside observers, what’s happening is very confusing. The Suns have clearly taken a step back, but if shaking up the roster is the solution as opposed to riding things out, shouldn’t moving the 26-year-old franchise cornerstone be the absolute last resort?

You’d think so, but as Stoudemire sees it, the Suns are motivated as much by their bottom-line as they are putting the best team on the floor. “I think it’s all about what they want to do and what they’re trying to do financially,” he said. “I think their main focus is their financial intake.”

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If you were Amare, would you be motivated to play well for the last few games?