Phoenix Suns Season Preview Series: Part 4, The Roster (Bigs)
When talking about the Suns big men, it's hard not to first discuss the one piece missing. This summer we watched Amare pack his bags and head to New York. We then used the money we could've used to resign him to pay Channing Frye, Hakim Warrick, Hedo Turkoglu and Josh Childress (Frye, Warrick and Childress alone were paid over $80 million). Personally, I would've rather had Amare. As Bill Simmons put it, "if Phoenix offered Childress, Frye and Warrick for Amare, the Knicks would hang up on them."
The great Seth Pollack challenged me when I brought this up by saying it was a very short-sighted approach. Well I'm a fan of short-sightedness when it comes to sports. After the '98 season the Bulls had a choice to make, shell out the cash to pay 3 aging superstars and 1 coach (it was all or nothing) or start the rebuilding process. Would they have been in a tough spot a few years down the line? Probably. But they would've given themselves the chance to watch a team compete every year. A chance to bring the excitement of the playoffs (and probably 1 or 2 more championships) to Chicago every season. They chose not to take the short-sighted approach and have yet to put a team on the floor that makes you think, "yeah, these guys could definitely win it all."
Last season the Suns got to the Western Conference Finals by putting a team together that got along, played well together, and most importantly FIT together on the floor. Amare gave us the scoring presence we needed when the games slowed down. He was the guy the Suns trusted when they needed a score. Additionally, he and Nash had become the greatest pick-and-roll tandems since Malone and Stockton because they had been running it for several awesome years together. Would I have liked to see them pay Amare (knowing the possible consequences) and give it another run with a more mature supporting cast? YES! ONE THOUSAND TIMES, YES! The same way I thought they should've kept going with Marion instead of trading for the Big Ego. No matter, I'm not the one making the decisions so let’s talk about the bigs we do have on the roster after the jump.
Robin Lopez
Lopez had a breakout season a year ago. He went from being the crazy dude who shattered doors, fouled a lot, and couldn't control his temper, to a very solid/important contributor to the Suns. Late in the season he was forced out of the lineup for an extended period of time due to injury only to come back for the Lakers series and helped extend the series with a GREAT game 3 against the Lakers much-praised front line. Here's what I said about Lopez in his 2009-10 report card.
So where does he go from here? This season I look for Lopez to continue his maturation. He had a great second half of the season in '09-'10 but in '10-'11 we'll need to see that kind of play consistently for the entire season. I completely expect him to make another jump, cut down on some of the silly fouls, take a little more care of the ball and really make an improvement in the pick-and-roll game with Nash. If there is any player on this team that can make it so we're not crying over the loss of Amare at the All-Star break it would be Lopez.
Channing Frye
Lopez wasn't the only Suns big man to enjoy a breakout season in 2009-'10. Channing Frye went from being an afterthought on the Blazers to being a HUGE part of the Suns success last season. He drained 172 3-pointers shooting a very nice 44% from behind the arc. Not too shabby for a dude who shattered his career high for 3-pointers in a season which stood previously right around a number you can count to using your fingers and toes.
This season Frye has been awarded with a new $30 million contract - a little high for a streaky shooter off of the bench but then again, everyone was overpaying this summer - and needs to use this season to prove he's worth that money. I'm always a little wary of players who are awarded after a breakout season this far into their career but I believe that Frye truly loves the game enough to not kick back and relax now that he's been paid. Really the best-case-scenario for Frye is that he has a similar season to last season (as I said, he is a streaky shooter so hopefully he can be a little more consistent) and that he makes a run at the 6th man award giving quality minutes and shooting off of the bench. If he could up his rebounding numbers from 5/game to 7 or 8 that would be huge for this particular Suns team.
Earl Clark
Earl Clark is still on the Suns trying to find any room on this roster filled with Forwards to crack the rotation. Clark is a very talented young man but seems to lack the fire to force his way in. He has very good ball-handling skills for his size and has a high release on his shot that is very hard to block. However, he tends to float to the 3-point line a little too much, go 1-on-1 a little too much when he gets the ball and has very poor body language when he is in the game. When I say that he has poor body language I'm not just saying he's quiet (Tim Duncan is quiet and he's probably the best PF to ever play the game) I'm saying he seems to have little interest in the game (again, something you can NEVER say about Duncan).
Clark needs to be challenged. He needs to have somebody get in his face and do everything possible to light a fire under his butt. Michael Jordan was a player who was never afraid to do this. Jordan demanded the best from his teammates. When Scottie Pippen came into the league Jordan not only saw the talent that was there but saw that Pip wasn't playing to his full potential. Without fear of what would happen Jordan constantly challenged Pippen and forced him to play hard every possession of every game. We know the rest of the story, Pippen revolutionized the game by playing the Point Forward position and became one of the greatest players to ever play. Would he have reached these levels of success if Jordan hadn't gotten in his face early in his career? Probably not. Clark needs this type of challenge - someone forcing him to not waste all of his talent and to start playing up to his potential. Coming out of Louisville scouts questioned his mental toughness and focus and up to this point those assessments have proven to be correct and unless someone really challenges him to correct those things, we may never know what might've come from all of his potential.
Hedo Turkoglu
Let the Hedo experiment begin. Hedo is coming to us from Toronto as probably one of the most hated men (at least basketball players along with Vince Carter) in all of Canada. Why do they hate him so much? Well, he joined them after his breakout postseason in Orlando 2 seasons ago with much anticipation and what he gave them was a disinterested performance where he averaged 11 points, 4 assists and 4 rebounds. He was also part of the reason that last year's Raptors team was one of the worst defensive teams in the history of the NBA. His last 2 seasons in Orlando he averaged 19, 5 and 5 ('07-'08) and 16, 5 and 5 ('08-'09) and the Suns are hoping he can return to form this season. They're also hoping that he will be able to play the PF position. If that's not the case, well there's $10 million dollars Sarver will never see again.
Honestly I'm not sure what to expect from Hedo this season. The system seems to be one in which he can flourish but can he guard the more physical PFs in the league? If the Suns struggle for an extended stretch (a strong possibility with this team) will he stay focused and continue to play hard? If he goes through a stretch where he's not getting the ball as much as he would like will he check out? There's a lot of questions surrounding Hedo but if he returns to form he may be able to lessen the blow taken with Amare's departure.
Hakim Warrick
Warrick is who he is. An intriguing prospect who can hit the 15 footer, who is fun to watch when he takes off towards the rim but who plays awful defense. For his career he is a worse defender than Amare with less of an offensive repertoire. He'll be fun in stretches and disappointing in others. Warrick and Nash running the pick-and-roll with him diving to the basket for awesome finishes will surely provide plenty of highlights but if he can't improve his defense and rebounding he may not be able to get much run in a rotation full of guys who play the same position (or who don't normally but will have to play that position on this team). Personally I'm excited to see Warrick play in the Suns system but worry about how much he'll actually be able to contribute even with the official Nash stat bump all players like him get when they play alongside the one and only Steve Nash.
Gani Lawal
Here's what I know about Lawal. He played with Favors at Georgia Tech and managed to steal some of Favor's shine with his energy on both ends of the floor. He's long and hustles and it seems to me like he'll be able to make up a little bit for the loss of Louis Amundson if he can crack the rotation. I haven't seen or heard much about him during the preseason and would expect him to only get spot minutes as a rookie. However, if he works on learning the game of basketball from a mental aspect and works on his offensive game (a lot) he definitely has the potential to be a good player in this league.
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You are 1000% correct in everything written before the jump; only time will tell on the rest but it’s refreshing to read something with a little more realism here as opposed to a little bit too much of buying what the Suns’ ownership is trying to sell us these days.
its not that we're buying
or that the FO is even selling that the Suns are better without Amare.
It’s just that he IS gone, and it’s time to move on.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Oct 21, 2010 3:02 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I will say that watdogg's Bulls in '98 analogy
is not quite valid.
Jordan and Pippen were healthy and had already brought home 6 championships. I would have given them any money to keep the train rolling too, even as they aged.
Amare is 5 years removed from a 6-yr-shelf-life microfracture and 1 year removed from a could-happen-again-any-time detached retina. And, he’d never delivered the Suns to the promised land when he was healthy.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Oct 21, 2010 3:05 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
True. Apples and bowling balls.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
Obviously that was the extreme – I’m just saying I’m a believer in trying to be the best you can EVERY season instead of thinking ‘well this might hurt us in a few years’ and being a little too cautious because of that.
Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson
now that's a great point
but still, McGrady and Miles and co. really hurt their teams for years and they never delivered championships when they were healthy.
The Suns guaranteed 3 max years. And they only wanted 22 mins a game in yr 3 to guarantee yr 4, and 22 mins a game in yr 4 to guarantee yr 5. The FO was trying to straddle the fence of immediate gain while mitigating future staggering losses.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
but that's water under the bridge
I totally see your point, watdogg.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I get your point
however.. it’s not our money being wasted if Amar’e is not able to play due to an injury.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
It’s also not our money if Warrick can’t defend, Childress can’t re-adapt to the NBA game, Frye relaxes after getting paid or Turk checks out because Nash is handling the ball running the pick and roll instead of giving it to him. There’s risk and reward in everything, I think the rewards of keeping Amare outweigh the risks of bringing in so many new guys – who all happen to be SFs but somehow have to try and make up for the loss of Amare at PF. Just my humble opinion.
Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson
True
I wanted Amar’e to stay. As a fan, I hated that he left but I also understood Sarver and why he wanted some insurance on Amare’s health.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
Yep, again not my money and not my decision – by the way, is there any way we can bring Amare back and get rid of Sarver?
Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson
as soon as
we can make Goran Dragic a good PF. Money.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
by Alex Laugan on Oct 21, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
great writeup, watdogg!
You had the toughest assignment because we really DON’T know what we’re going to get from any of these guys this season. Could be great, could be bad.
Question for you: assume the rotation stays 100% healthy and everyone plays to their career averages. No real reason to bench one of these guys. Would you give Dampier minutes anyway, because he can rebound and defend the paint?
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
I don’t like Dampier at all. He is one of those dudes that had a career year, got paid and hasn’t played hard since. He’ll play hard in spurts but checks out WAY too easily for my liking. I don’t think he helps this team do anything different then they would without him this season.
Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson
We lose nothing by adding him unless he sulks
We gain a very good rebounder…and rebounding is a huge weakness for us.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
"unless he sulks"
and slows down the team, and ruins chemistry which is required to exceed 45 win expectations, and…
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
…and he’d likely get his minutes by taking some from both Frye and Robin, so for every minute he’s on the floor we gain rebounding and lose Frye’s offense and floor spacing and Robin’s defense and rebounding.
He's a better rebounder than Robin
And a better post defender than Frye.
Trade-offs.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
If I get cancer, at least I'll lose some weight.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
"Slows down the team"
We’re not going to be feeding him on offense so I don’t see that happening. FWIW, Shaq didn’t slow down the team in the “Seven Seconds or Shaq” phase. Our offensive efficiency in that period was the greatest in the history of the league or something IIR Hollinger’s article correctly.
Ruins chemistry=Sulking. Same thing can happen with Hedo.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
actually
2009-10 was the greatest efficiency, but I get your point.
If Dampier signs, I’ll be all for it because I’m a fan of Gentry to figure it out. But until then, I will keep expressing my reservations.
(and yes, Hedo has a better opp to ruin chemistry than Dampier. But then, do we really want to bring in more people who can vie for biggest chemistry killer award?)
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
He had an article up saying that the 20-30 or so games we played "SSOS" in 08/09 we were putting up historical off-eff records
Your point about chemistry is very very valid though.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Here's the article I was talking back
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090317
…The Suns’ offensive efficiency mark since Gentry took over is an absurd 117.7, a mark that would make them far and away the best offensive team in history if they kept it up for a full season. In that time, the Suns have moved into a tie with Portland for second place in offensive efficiency (110.4) for the season. (They were sixth in offensive efficiency under Terry Porter.) And they are pretty close to reeling in the Lakers (110.8) for the top spot and leading the league for a fifth consecutive season.
They’re doing it while playing at a breakneck pace, even with Shaquille O’Neal. Their 102.2 pace factor under Gentry would lead the league for a full season, after they were in the middle of the pack in Porter’s more structured system.
And the flowering of players’ individual games has been obvious:
• Leandro Barbosa, whose role shriveled under Porter, is playing nearly nine minutes more a game under Gentry and has upped his scoring average from 12.8 to 19.1.
• Matt Barnes, thrust into a starting role when Amare Stoudemire went out, has thrived as a small-ball power forward. He’s launching nearly five 3s a game while averaging 14.1 points and 4.5 assists under the new boss.
• Steve Nash is averaging six more points per game since Gentry took over, jumping from 13.6 to 19.8. Also, his shooting percentage is up from 46.8 to 55.3 percent, and his turnover average is down from 3.8 to 3.2.
• And the player with the most improvement? Surprisingly, it’s Shaq. The Big Cactus is shooting an incredible 68.4 percent from the field since Gentry took over and has upped his scoring average by nearly three points a game in fewer minutes.
As a result, we can credit the Suns for this amazing fact: NBA teams had scored 140 points or more in regulation just eight times in the past 10 seasons; Phoenix did it four times in 16 games, including Sunday’s nationally televised 154-point explosion at Golden State.
On top of that, this all might be just a prelude to what’s to come. Phoenix’s schedule gets significantly easier from here on out, so the Suns could put up even better numbers over their final 15 games.
The Suns get to face the league’s 30th-ranked defense (Sacramento), 29th-ranked defense (Washington) and 27th-ranked defense (Minnesota). They also play the 20th-ranked defense (Memphis) twice and have only one game left against a team ranked in the top six in defensive efficiency.
That 16-game stretch I recounted above included seven games against the league’s top six defenses, so Phoenix put up its mind-boggling numbers despite facing high-quality opposition. (This also, incidentally, helps account for the 8-8 record in that span.)
We still don’t know whether this offensive explosion will end in a playoff berth — Tuesday’s Playoff Odds put the Suns’ chances at only 1-in-3. But keep an eye on Phoenix over these final few weeks, because the Seven-Seconds-Or-Shaq attack has become a historically great offensive juggernaut.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I would rather see what Siler can do with some minutes then Dampier. Are you guys hearing he is coming here?
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
no
his agent said the Suns were still in the running. Dampier told some other reporter a day or so ago that he was still talking to 10 or 11 teams.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
10 or 11 teams?
who would have thought this… incredible.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
Seriously.. Erik Dampier.. Who did he play for again last year? Exactly.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
It seems to me like he's trying to avoid training camp
when he knows he’ll get paid exactly the same after the month of hard work is finished. I was quite keen on the idea last month but i think now i’d rather see his minutes go to guys with fires to burn.
Great point.
Erick Dampier is the Brett Favre of the NBA. Except he’s not very good.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
by RMason on Oct 21, 2010 6:10 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
And he doesn't send text messages to the courtside reporters
with pictures of his wang. Aren’t you glad, Seth?
Are we talking about Greg Oden?
haha
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
+1
This is the biggest worry I have about the potential Dampier signing.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Oct 21, 2010 6:14 PM MST up reply actions
He is slo anyway.
So without a camp behind him that point will be even greater. Plus it also emphasizes his laziness.
by Suns Fan For Life on Oct 22, 2010 7:15 AM MST up reply actions
That's true
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I'm not a Channing Frye fan
I think I’ve made that clear since last season. I feel he’s too soft and way too streaky to be relied upon in big moments. He needs to be tougher inside and rebound the ball hard. That’s the only way I’ll stop looking at him as an overpaid player.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
just saying, though
in the toughest moments (game 5 and 6 of the WCF), Frye had 25 rebounds and Pau Gasol had a terrible WCF (averaged something like 9 pts and 7 rebs).
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Frye also played balls out till the last second and never gave up, while Amar’e just flamed out.
by hcblankscreen on Oct 21, 2010 3:24 PM MST up reply actions
+1
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Clark is gone
Apparently FO exercised Rolo’s option but not Clark’s. Surprising. How does this affect bigs analysis?
actually, he's not quite gone
this year’s salary is guaranteed. It’s next year’s that they have not given him.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
It could just be incentive - nothing else seems to have worked.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I hope he's incentified.
Peyton Manning= Better.
by JesusNinja13 on Oct 21, 2010 8:29 PM MST up reply actions
There's nothing you can do when a player
is not interested in working hard. Clark had plenty of time to get better. He had the potential and that’s what scouts look for. But you can never guess how hard a player is willing to work. I mean, it’s ridiculous. He knew the organization believed in him, he knew he had a coach who was willing to work with rookies. WTF! just bust your ass in the gym, be smart on the court and play the game you love playing. What a waste..
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
seems like Seth is always saying he put's in the extra time before and after practice ...
He has looked better recently but not to what we are expecting of him.
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
according to Seth
he has been working hard. He just has a problem between the ears when it comes to putting it together.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
but I also saw a report from Seth in SBN AZ
from summer league. It stated that Thunder Dan was disappointed that Earl looked slow and out of shape.
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
Conflicting reports are always frustrating…
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 3:23 PM MST up reply actions
No conflict.
Earl wasn’t ready for SL, but now that the season is approaching he’s putting in extra work.
The problem is we need a guy who sets big screens
takes contact and finishes at the rim.
And Clark is determined to be Arman Gilliam instead.
He's soooo much further behind.
In his 2nd season, Armen Gilliam was averaging over 16 points and 7 rebounds per game. And starting.
He was also 2nd overall, so he had that going for him. He was taken ahead of Scottie Pippen and Kevin Johnson. All 3 were drafted ahead of some guy named Reggie Miller.
Random note from the 1987 draft: Chris Dudley might have been the “find” of the century. He was drafted in the 4th round (which doesn’t exist anymore) and went on to play for 16 seasons.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
I was hoping when EC was drafted that his perceived “aloofness” was just scouts misjudging him because of his low key demeanor…but after the past couple of seasons the kid just doesn’t seem to have any fire in his gut! As much as I hate for this team to miss on yet another draft pick it doesn’t hurt my feelings in the least if they part ways with him! Just goes to show that talent without desire is just talent wasted…
I need a ring, DAMMIT!!
by Sunny_N_DC on Oct 21, 2010 3:17 PM MST via mobile reply actions
ESPN the magazine had a great writeup a couple of months ago about Rashad McCants. Dude has mad skills and could easily help any team at the SG position but is out of the league because he is perceived as a guy who doesn’t care. He carries himself much the same way Clark does and it looks like Clark is headed for a similar fate.
Whether or not that’s actually how they are, if they are perceived to be lazy, or unfocused or whatever they’re reputation will preceed them wherever they go and the only way to overcome it is to change.
Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson
True, but with the reports we hear about Clark it doesn’t seem like he’s doing much to change that perception of him. It’s a shame too because I think he would flourish here if he played balls to the wall!
I need a ring, DAMMIT!!
by Sunny_N_DC on Oct 21, 2010 3:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately, perception is reality in the absence of contradicting evidence.
I said I would stick with EC55 as long as Gentry et. al. did – I figured they were in a better position to know than I was. Now, I’ll turn my hopes to Gani Lawal.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Does anyone think the drive and basketball IQ that Clark lacks can be taught? If not, I guess he’s doomed. He’s Steve Kerr’s one failure. (Unless Kerr drafted Alando Tucker and D.J. Strawberry. He didn’t, did he?)
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 3:31 PM MST reply actions
Kerr drafted Tucker and Strawberry
his first draft picks
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Oh. That’s unfortunate for Kerr, because it means three of his five picks (Tucker, Strawberry, Lopez, Dragic, Clark, didn’t work out.
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 3:52 PM MST up reply actions
Give him a break on Strawberry – DJ has done about as well as you would expect for the 2nd to last pick in the draft. That Strawberry is still getting invited to training camps a few years after the draft probably puts him in the top 10% of all #59 picks ever in the 2-round draft era.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Oct 21, 2010 3:57 PM MST up reply actions
Well, certainly, he was a victim of Coach D’Antoni’s arrogance.
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 4:01 PM MST up reply actions
Sure. So if we’re scoring him, I give Kerr a record of 2-2-1, with the two wins being pretty big victories. One of the games isn’t finished yet I suppose (Clark), but it sure looks like the Suns are going to end up losing, though I’m crossing my fingers that we pull it out.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Oct 21, 2010 4:04 PM MST up reply actions
I know this is hypocritical of me, but whilst clark is still on the team can we NOT imply
that he is done for and a goner and so and so; maybe he has something special in store for us. You guys saw how he played dirk nowitzki so well defensively in that january game last season, or how he had some really nice games against the lakers in limited minutes; the talent is most certainly there, but he has yet to figure it out. I wouldnt be surprised to see him get cut from the suns only to become something of a star on another team.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
Again, this may just be a last ditch move to light a fire under Earl's talented but slow-moving ass.
Here’s 3 million dollars, Earl – run fast enough, play hard enough, and it’s yours. Otherwise…
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
What if we literally light a fire under his ass, do you think he'd get the picture???
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
Bball IQ can be learned – the drive has to come from somewhere. As I said, Jordan beat the drive into Pippen and forced him to live up to his potential…don’t see anyone on this Suns team that might do that for Clark. He’s playing for a ‘nice’ players coach, with a ‘nice’ players PG on a nice ’let’s all love each other’ team. The only player that might would be Lopez and he’s got stuff of his own to worry about.
Staff writer: Bright Side of the Sun Twitter: @dpwatson
Michael Jordan is the reason I feel ambivalent about ruthlessness and drive in basketball. It helps you win, but can also make you into an asshole.
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 3:55 PM MST up reply actions
But in life sometimes you need some incentive and that asshole is what forces you to prove them wrong.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
Excellent Point....
An asshole is what made me into the asshole I am today…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
You're right.
But Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Kobe Bryant are all assholes – and are arguably the 4 best players ever – at least in the last 3 decades.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I didn’t know Magic Johnson was an asshole. Guess his “nice” persona was just a persona indeed. Otherwise, I knew Larry Bird trash talked as nauseum, Michael Jordan drove his teammates like mules, and Kobe Bryant is an all-around horrible person. I’ve also heard that Isiah Thomas was a jerk as a player.
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 4:45 PM MST up reply actions
If you watch the Bird/Magic thingie on HBO,
You will learn that Earvin was the nice guy, Magic was the asshole.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
They're both douchebags
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
lol
that’s why I replied the way I did. Earvin was nice but Magic was the asshole. hilare
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
Agreed
And none of them would have joined forces with the others on this list a la Lebron. Instead they wanted to beat the other top guys’ asses. Hyper competitive, take no prisoners. Total assassins. Would never tolerate slackness on the part of their team mates and intimidated them into playing hard. That’s what sets them apart, more than their skills.
I'd like to see Grant Hill challenge EC the way Jordan did Pippen.
I know it sounds incongruous, but he’s the guy with the cred to do it on this team.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
I think he is waiting for Earl to at least show a little interest first...
Grant could help him at that point…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
and right on cue...
Suns exercise fourth-year option on Lopez
www.nba.com/2010/news/10/21/robin-lopez-extension.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2
what if Nash were a jerk?
Unlike Michael Jordan, by all accounts Nash is tough but nice. If he were more of a jerk like Jordan, would it probably be helpful or counterproductive?
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 4:52 PM MST reply actions
It's a good question, but people are who they are.
The worst thing they can do is to try and be something they’re not. I certainly wouldn’t be as big of a fan of the Suns if Nash were an asshole – for me, I want him to prove that nice guys can finish first.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
by haremoor on Oct 21, 2010 4:57 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Sure, if they have someone to be a jerk for them on the court. Tim Duncan seems to be nice enough and not dirty on the court, but he has had players like Robert Horry and Manu Ginobili to take cheap shots and make dirty fouls so he doesn’t have to.
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 5:22 PM MST up reply actions
well those guys
are just common as hell. Lets go pick one up off the street corner.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
We had Matt Barnes
He fits the bill. But everybody here hated him.
"One defends when his strength is inadequate, he attacks when it is abundant."
~Sun Tzu
by East Bay Ray on Oct 21, 2010 6:40 PM MST up reply actions
He was ok in my book, especially given his contract.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Oct 21, 2010 6:42 PM MST up reply actions
"asshole enforcer" vs. traditional enforcer
Just because he apparently was obnoxious didn’t make him any useful sort of enforcer. I thought a real enforcer is a big, physical and aggressive player who is willing to play dirty in a way constructive for his team.
by 8472species on Oct 21, 2010 7:29 PM MST up reply actions
You described a player who
“takes cheap shots and makes dirty fouls”. Matt Barnes does that.
http://vodpod.com/watch/1791632-fight-almost-breaks-out-between-houston-rockets-phoenix-suns-shaq-tracy-mcgrady-matt-barnes-get-involved
"One defends when his strength is inadequate, he attacks when it is abundant."
~Sun Tzu
by East Bay Ray on Oct 21, 2010 7:40 PM MST up reply actions
I prefer a bruiser ala Danny Fortson...
Somebody is gonna put some knots on the opposing players’ skulls…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
based on the number
of teams he’s played for, he’s not been a good fit anywhere
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Oct 22, 2010 6:19 AM MST up reply actions
I loved Barnes...
Except when he kept shooting (and missing) three’s. Otherwise, I liked his nasty attitude and toughness. I think we could have done much worse than to keep him around. But then again, I’m not sure what kind of relationship he had with the rest of the players. Our chemistry seemed to blossom after he and Shaq left.
I felt the same way about Barnes
just wanted to let you know
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
Scott Howard with 'roid rage...
Gfreat…Just freaking great…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Hey Watdogg,
what do you think about Robin’s post offense? I didn’t really see that mentioned, but it looks to me like he is much improved and we might be able to count on him getting a few shots for himself.
Got it
All we need to do is put Gani’s brain in Earl’s body. You’d have all the tools and the fire in the belly in one explosive package.
hate to say it but
I see Channing regressing. Got no evidence, but to see him hit the same numbers as last season seems a stretch.
If Lopez stays healthy, this squad wins 50, if not-long, long season
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Oct 21, 2010 6:23 PM MST up reply actions
I tend to agree. Not that I think Channing will suddenly become a horrible 3PT shooter, but 43% is pretty high, even for a guard.That said, if Channing shoots 40%, improves in some other areas and cuts down on stupid mistakes, I guess I’ll be pretty content.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Oct 21, 2010 6:41 PM MST up reply actions
If frye can get more than just 5 pathetic rebounds I'll be most conetent with a fringe startr in my entire life!
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
This gets the award for...
Most Scott Howard Post of the Night Not By Scott Howard
Speculative negativism at its finest!
And yes, this should be an actual daily award.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Finally someone agrees with me on that! Thank you!
"Basketball doesn't build character. It reveals it"
I am for once, happy to be the optimist here
Everything I’ve seen from Channing so far seems to indicate that his defense and rebounding is improving.
His 3 point% might dip a bit, but even it if dips a bit, it’s still very very good.
Hey,earl clark hasnt realized his vast potential yet, but I havent seen jeff teague do that et either; they've only been in the league for one measly season,
and this season Clark could perenially answer or help fill in some voids this season meanwhile jeff teague is stuck behind a ball-dominat johnson, jamaal crawford, and mike bibby. I think we are being a bit too impatient with clark.
"Remember this sh*t at christmas!"-Terry Crews, The Expendables
by Bkj on Oct 21, 2010 7:07 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
+55
I would like it if Gentry give Clark some minutes with the starters tomorrow. Everyone, there are plenty of seats left in the Clark Carpool come join us.
Riding shotgun on the Earl Clark carpool, the Chilly Bandwagon was packed and the Hedo Apologists is invitation only.
Watdog, a great post and I agree with just about everything you covered
But how can you do a preview of Suns bigs without the biggest big of them all – the Silo?
So here goes:
At seven feet, 300 and change, Siler brings a size rarely seen in a Suns uniform. In preseason, he’s shown soft hands and a talent for rebounding, with good touch from the free throw line and a high overall shooting percentage. Outplayed the other potential projects to earn a roster spot. Conditioning and of course his weight are issues, as is an apparent reluctance to body up down low and when setting picks. Could be a good asset with experience and if he can drop weight without losing strength.
by suns68 on Oct 21, 2010 8:04 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Thanks for that
I can’t help but think that there could’ve been more complete coverage of the current Suns bigs here if so much space wasn’t wasted on a former player.
"One defends when his strength is inadequate, he attacks when it is abundant."
~Sun Tzu
by East Bay Ray on Oct 21, 2010 8:39 PM MST up reply actions
Has Clark had any "pep talks" yet?
Does anyone know if there has been an attempt to light a fire under his ass, or find a way to help give him a major confidence boost? He does all the things you’d expect from someone who just doesn’t believe in himself. I really feel that if he had that belief, it would be game on for him in the league. Could it be that he has actual significant self-esteem issues? Not to get too psychiatric here, but there is a really distant look in the kid’s eyes.
Frye (of Victoria, Canada) - Steve Nash's hometown folks admire his skills, his leadership and his unabashed intelligent humour.
by Frye (of Victoria, Canada) on Oct 22, 2010 12:04 AM MST reply actions
He's had
plenty of coaching…plenty
I’m not so sure about that distant look. You can’t judge guys too much on that and he might end up figuring it out eventually. The skills are there and if he keeps playing – perhaps overseas somewhere on team where he can be a starter – and gets a couple of solid years of floor time at the pro level. Some guys just take longer.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Oct 22, 2010 6:21 AM MST up reply actions
they take a little longer
or they need big minutes on a bad team (where they are the central player) in order to flourish. Earl’s problem is that he has SO many skills, yet no idea when to use them. So, he needs a million reps in live games on a bad team (Minny?) to figure it out naturally.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
The problem with Clark is that he identifies himself
as a wing scorer. Just watch him put the ball on the floor, create space for himself, and take the midrange jumpers. He’s really quite good at it. He can create his own shot and hit it 44% of the time.
Problem is, 44% is horrible efficiency in the NBA. So what he’s good at, isn’t really all that, well… good.
Clark needs to re-think his game entirely and adapt it to the NBA. Most rookies (that make it) have to do this to some extent. Clark has to do it a lot, and so far, he hasn’t shown any sign of making a metamorphosis. His physique makes him potentially a balls-out, lane-driving, high-flying finisher.
My opinion is that they should put him into some pick and rolls with The Nash. It would put him in position to be a finisher.
Learn to love the contact, Earl!
Just a couple of points concerning the player formerly know as the Suns PF.
We can’t forget we offered Amare the same contract as the knicks. He wanted to leave (maybe the trade talk had something to do with it or not). He wanted something that he could not find in PHX. Still trying to figure out what that is.
There is something that has shifted for Amare in NY. He seems ready, willing, able, and excited about being the leader in NY. Something he never really embraced while he was here. We may see a harder working Amare than ever this year. This is because he will A) Have to do it becuase he does not have the best point in the last 20 years setting him up B)Does not have the same quality players around him to help spread the floor, etc. and C) He realizes he is the man that has to carry this team on his back in order for the team to be successful. As the season progresses we will see how this plays out. If he does carry this team it is something he never did and may have never done in PHX. If this does happen it will proove a couple of things. Amare will show us he was capable of being the player we all thought he could be and also why we were consistently dissappointed in the player he was. In the end this may have been the best move for Amare to realize the full potential that comes with his talent, and leave us scratching our heads as to “why” it never happened here, and “what if” it had happened. So long big fella. GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN.
by Suns Fan For Life on Oct 22, 2010 7:44 AM MST reply actions
you know
He seems ready, willing, able, and excited about being the leader in NY.
its always easy to be leader before you actually have to lead. We’ll see in about 6 months whether Amare has really changed in that way or not. Or after the first 6 game losing streak.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
100% agree
Is it just the same talk he gave here only louder and amplified by the bright lights of the big apple, or is it really there. He has not been on a losing team in quite some time.
by Suns Fan For Life on Oct 22, 2010 8:45 AM MST up reply actions
Nash said
Amare is a freakishly good athlete and will score a ton of points in NYC, especially with D’Antoni in charge – but that his team won’t necessarily win. He said Amare would often be out of sync with the rest of the Suns defensively. Basically not smart enough to fully capitalize on his huge talent. We aren’t now as good as were with him, but give it time. We have some good new components and Gentry will stitch it together well.
Where's this interview?
I’ve never heard if Nash saying anything like that before, and it sounds very candid. Do you have a link?
by 7footer on Oct 22, 2010 4:00 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
ALEX IS THIS TRUE??? DID YOU MEAN 16 GAMES?!?!?!?
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
5 yrs. 95+ million dollars. The Knick gave him 5 yrs 97 mil. Looks pretty much the same to me
by Suns Fan For Life on Oct 22, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions
Not quite
The Knicks’ contract is fully guaranteed. The Suns’ offer had minutes requirements for the 3rd, 4th and 5th years of the deal. If Amare had blown out his knee or eye again, he was potentially out 30-50 million dollars. That’s a big difference.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
by Mike Lisboa on Oct 22, 2010 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I know that.
But straight money it is the same. He did not leave here for the money (if he doesn’t have enough by now then I am better off than him making about 55000 per year). He left for other reasons.
I hope he does well. It may have been what he needed to a great all-time player vs just a generationally great player. What I am saying is if he really does bump up his play, what was it about PHX that held him back.
by Suns Fan For Life on Oct 22, 2010 10:06 AM MST up reply actions
nice article sir...
i think this is going to be a fun yet painful team to watch this year… i was hoping when Amare left they would replace him with someone who was a stud rebounder and defender but it is quite possible we are now worse on the glass… that said I am very optimistic about robin lopez this year… i think if he develops just a little and grabs a few of those boards that were just out of his reach last year we can grab just enough rebounds to hang in there most nights… im hoping lawal cracks the rotation as our amundson this year… there is no reason he shouldnt be able to fill that role…
Nice Job, But.............
I agree with almost all of your article except on Amare. Amare stated he wanted to play for a winner, which we now know was a big fat lie. He goes to NY for what, the $$$$ and to be Mr. number one. He ONLY had to average 20 minutes a game in his last year of his contract here to get pay virtually same amount over the life of the contract. So to say Sarver didn’t try would be a lie……. Think about it NO one will insure his knee. I hope the Suns shine for not giving money away to a ego freak that only cares about himself, and will probably not play out the life of his contract. GO SUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with some of that
But I think Sarver’s offer was never intended to be accepted by Amare. I think he knew he was going out East to take a max deal, be it from NY or NJ or whoever, and made him a partially unguaranteed offer that he knew wouldn’t be accepted for the sake of saving face.
I also think that I would have done the same thing, were I him.
"We didn’t go for coffee and this kind of stuff."
-El Dragon on his relationship with Sasha Vujacic
ah yes but
the next CBA is almost certain to bring on fewer guaranteed yrs and dollars, along the lines of the NFL. Its crazy to commit 25 mill a yr to a guy 3-4 yrs out with that injury history. there will be some logic in the CBA to protect owners from themselves.
Blogging Suns Basketball at Bright Side of the Sun
So we lost our best player and a shot at the title
I guess we showed him!
by suns68 on Oct 23, 2010 4:45 PM MST via mobile up reply actions

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