Power Forward at the Gates of Delirium.....
AH…REBOUNDING…
Well, we here at BSOTS have seemingly beaten the Suns rebounding issue to a bloody pulp. Me personally, I don’t mind beating a dead horse, but at some point I need to save my energy to guzzle the T-Bird and Boone’s Farm in the fridge. Standing at the gates of rebounding restlessness is a solution somewhere..That being said, there have been all kinds of suggestions here to address this issue, ranging from ignoring it to bringing in a certified goon ala Danny Fortson. So I guess it’s time for me tooffer my two cents worth by reaching into the old rectal database and provide my analysis of the latest BSOTS desire du’ jour and his potential fit into the Suns rotation - Jason Thompson….
Jason is probably one of the most intriguing prospects for addressing the Suns rebounding issues, namely because his current “bum-of-the day” status in Sac Town. Somehow, Darnell Jackson has not only secured an NBA job, but also moved ahead of Thompson on the depth charth---Damn, I think I’ll try out next year for the Hawks… Anyways, Thompson came into this year’s campaign fresh off of a fairly impressive rookie season where he averaged 12.5 ppg & 8.5 rpg and instantly became one of the top offensive rebounders in the NBA. His skills he put on display got him a lot of notice around the league even though he showed some of the usual brain-lapses and decision making shortcomings that plague many NBA rookies.
First and foremeost, where Jason could really help the Suns is that he has a big frame, and a nice combination of strength, athleticism, skill, and desire to rebound. Besides being good on the offensive glass, he is more than serviceable on the defense glass as well. His precense would immediately slow down the "volley-ball" work opponents have been doing to us. I also think his overall defense would be somewhat of an asset as well because he shows solid lateral quickness, possesses excellent length, good timing and instincts, and can run with most of the quicker 4’s & 5’s in the league. On the flip side, I have noticed that sometimes he gets lost on the pick and roll switch and his close-out reactions to jump shooters aren’t always great. I do think that is just part of learning the game as he is a competitor, and has a knack for contesting jumpers and opponents out on the perimeter without drawing excessive fouls. For a big man, his perimeter defense is damn good, and I doubt we could do better for a big man that could guard jump shooters.
What really concerns me defensively and probably his biggest negative for the Suns acquiring him, however, is that Thompson has not shown an ability to effectively defend the post. This is an area that the Suns need help in defending the Duncans & Gasols of the Western conference, and I am not sure how much help Thompson could provide. While you can generally count on Jason to give you an occasional highlight reel block, fight for loose rebounds, and do a good job boxing out his man, the problem is that he does not show good footwork in defending the post. He tends to initiate unnecessary contact (drawing quick fouls) with his upper body down low and is definitely prone to hacking shooters on layups and other post moves. Hacking isn’t necessarily a bad thing if done right, but a lot of Jason’s post hacks result in an “And 1.” I think a lot of this can be corrected by good coaching (Bill Cartwright) as he is still a very young player and he has a desire to contest shots and be aggressive.
On the offensive side of the ball, Thompson has some nice offensive skills, no doubt… He is one of those guys that always seem to get numbers and you don’t even notice him doing it. He is fairly versatile offensively, but his ability to score in a variety of ways sometime results in some very questionable shots over the course of the game. While he wouldn’t be as bad as Matt Barnes, Suns fans would definitely question the ways he goes about his shot selection. Methinks, this is what probably got him in Westphal’s doghouse. Looking over some video of him, I see a lot of fadeaway jumpers on the block that barely draw iron (Thought I was watching Anthony Mason for a second), quite a few pull-up jumpers with a defenders draped all over him, and more than a few shots at the rim that were definitely rushed. Additionally, Thompson sometimes falls in love with his 12-15 foot jumper that doesn't fall as much as you'd wish. Bottom line here is that his midrange game still needs a lot of work, so Amare he is not. As far as creating his own shot, forget about it…. He’s nowhere near a capable shooter off the dribble, and he still doesn’t shoot well when his defender gets a hand in his face – two things he can work on if he gets here, but in the grand scheme of things, aren’t deal-killers to bringing him in.
Okay, while he won’t remind us of STAT with his jumper, Thompson doesn’t look too bad around the rim. Like I said earlier, sometimes he rushes himself down there, but his ability to get up the floor in transition as well as his soft hands make him definitely interesting to the Suns. He also sets good solid screens without fouling. The name of the game here for effective incorporation into the Suns lineup would be taking advantage of Jason’s transition speed and his nice ability to catch as part of the PNR with Steve, Hedo and/or Goran. While he doesn’t have the finishing ability of, say STAT, he does have a decent touch and the necessary body control to avoid offensive fouls and get to the rim. He will grab a fair share of his offensive rebounds if he does miss and he is also good free-throw shooter to take care of those invariable fouls that he will draw (He draws a ton). I will caveat all this by saying that in order to sustain long term success in the Suns uniform, he would have to develop a few post moves such as a drop step. Once again the Suns coaching staff can definitely help here.
Given how productive Thompson was last year with decent minutes, I can’t believe how quickly Sacremento has gotten down on him. Darnell Jackson…? Give me a freaking break…! While Thompson isn’t perfect, and he won’t totally solve the Suns interior defensive woes, the Suns can do so much worse than Jason Thompson, especially how he would instantly improve our rebounding. Given a starting role with the Suns and a real support system, I don’t see how Jason could not average 17ppg,10rpg, & 2 bpg with 30+ minutes per game. Furthermore if we consider that Rolo may be out for a few, Thompson can be a serviceable replacement for 20-25 minutes a game manning the pivot. Personally, I think the Suns fit Thompson well, since he is still a few years away from reaching his full potential and he would be a perfect building block along with Goran & Rolo. With added polish, Thompson could be a fringe all-star. Knowing his current predicament and that he will probably go cheap, I think the Suns would be foolish not to push hard to acquire him while his value is low.
I'll be consoled in the fact that you may not agree with this article, but Boones' Farm always agrees with me....
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Feel about the same way I felt about...
Stromile Swift. Dude had the size and athleticism but nothing between the ears.
Please don't compare him to Stromile...
I just ate my lunch….
Seriously, JT is a much better offensive talent than Stomile ever was…Swift could jsut dunk stuff close in or hit little 5 footers…Actually he was alittle clumsy as well….I don’t think we can seriously compare the two….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
I'm not really comparing the two
Just kinda feels like the same situation though.
We got SS when Amar’e went blind and the Suns needed a presence in the paint and a roll-man for Nash. What we got was exactly what you pointed out.
Right now, we need a rebounding PF/C who can finish an occasional lob and not hack his way to the bench. Something tells me that JT has a few “team issues” and I wouldn’t want to reboot the Suns rotation by adding another player who isn’t high in BBIQ.
by ajotanelsona on Nov 15, 2010 12:27 PM MST up reply actions
Actually you hit it on the head with this statement...
“Right now, we need a rebounding PF/C who can finish an occasional lob and not hack his way to the bench….”
That is precisely what JT would give us…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
i watched some highlight videos on you tube
now granted they were highlights:
he can box out and rebound really well
i’d agree with your analysis that he’llprobably some work on his jumper, but the ones he was making in the videos were pretty… and that’s somehting he can work on anyway. plus, if he’s PnR’ing, al he needs to do is freight train it to the rim anyway…
i’m all for the sun’s bettering the team, and with that said, who’s expendable? dudley (only one with proven talent), lawal, clark are probably the only 3 i can imagine.
if he is in the doghouse, then is a 1st round pick too much for him?
I am not sure about a 1st round pick...
But we have 4 guys that are kinda interchangeable at the 2/3….Hill, JDudz, Chill, & JRich. Personally. I feel Hill & JRich aren’t goiung anywhere (We need them..!) That leaves Dudz & Chill. Of the two, even though it pains me to say it, Dudz is the more expendable.
Actually I think it is better in the long run. I think we are stagnating Dudz growth as a player by only giving him 15 minutes a game. He really needsa closer to thirty. Our team is just overloaded with Small forwards right now.
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
I’m indifferent about him.
I think he could help us, but his main focus would have to be rebounding. The fact that he’s in the dog house kind of makes me not want to trade Dudz or Childress for him. I’d feel like we’d be losing out on that deal. For all we know, he could’ve just had one good season like Diaw did and he’ll never be good again. We wouldn’t know for sure what he would give us, but we do know what Josh and Dudz give us. We shouldn’t trade vital pieces from our team for a player in the “dog house” no matter how good his previous season was. It’s this season that matters and so far he sucks. I’d offer the kings a 1st round pick and either Lawal or Clark. Anymore than that would be asking for too much. If they really wanted to trade the guy for some “equal value” than they should be playing him and showing off his talent not making him a bench warmer.
Lets say a trade like that happens soon; than JT could backup Frye until he proves he can start. If so he takes Robin’s place until Robin gets back into shape. If Robin still sucks after than than we let him go. If not, than we have to move either Dudz, Warrick, or Frye(whoever is playing worse), so we could put JT back into his natural position and start Lopez again.
Don't trade Dudley!
I was thinking for myself, and I know this is sacrelige, but...
OK, what the Kings need isn’t really a wing… They have a decent, young SF in Casspi, and Garcia is a good player as well. What the Kings really need is a premier point guard.
First of all, I’m not at all sure this would be a good deal, but it’s a good hypothetical mind-quencher:
Dragic for Thompson and the 2011 first rounder!
OK OK, i know it’s crazy, but i have another one:
Dragic and Hedo for Thompson and Udrih plus a future first rounder
Now to the explaining hopeless defence of these trade ideas. The first trade i kinda bad, because it leaves Suns without a backup PG, and still too many wings. Even though Dragic is great and a legit PG for the future, he isn’t indispensible in my eyes, and could be traded for a good deal. But bottom line, I don’t think Kings would do this, because their 2011-pick is likely very valuable. Recent drafts has shown that good PG aren’t too hard to find.
So over to the second idea. While this is also a downgrade in talent level for the Suns, we’d completely be rid of our logjam. This would mean more playing time for Dudley and Childress, something I think is very important for the future of the Suns. Along with this, we rid ourselves of Hedo’s ugly contract AND we get an inticing first round pick.
While I wouldn’t reccomend these trades, it is fun to think about how that Suns squad would have looked (though kinda sad when Dragic isn’t there.
The idea of trading Dragic makes Dudley look dispensable.
by 8472species on Nov 15, 2010 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
We lose out big time on that deal. Keep in ming that JT’s value is very poor right now. Dragic is> than Udrih and will only get better. Your giving up way too much for a bench warmer and decent PG.
Don't trade Dudley!
I'd definitely have to agree...
Giving up Dragic is definitely too much…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Yes, Clark and a 2012 1st round pick for Jason Thompson
Clark and a 1st round pick for JT would work. I think the KINGs would be happy.
Don’t worry about JT defending the low post, Frye, Lopez, and even Siler are good at that.
What we need is a good perimeter defender of Big Men, a guy with low post offense, and a good rebounder. JT would play at least 20 minutes at PF and some minutes at Center.
I don’t think that trading Dudley or J-Chil would work anyway (unless the KINGS gave us another player besides JT.
these trades make zero sense
why confuse / clog the already thickening rotation. the reason the suns would add lawal or earl clark to a dudley type trade is the kings get a proven commodity, plus young prospects and don’t need to add in any draft picks. by removing dudley and adding JT, the suns can play hedo more time at the 3, and switch JT / Frye at center and PF to dispell eachother or Lopez.
IMO, dudley / clark are the odd men out… and i haven’t personally witnessed lawal play so i have no opinion if he should be expendable. But they should keep their first round picks.
Right now Lopez is hurt and will probably get hurt again a long with someone else, so he wouldn’t be clogging anything.
Don't trade Dudley!
well i don't think you make knee jerk reactions
based on a player getting hurt, or not playing up to par 8 games into the season. the sun’s have a glaring hole at PF. turk is better suited to play the SF… and if you can make an argument that dudley is better than hill or turk at the 3, or richardson and childress at the 2, then by all means, make it.
I am not sure what the right answer is...
Suppose we trade for JT today…That would give us two weeks or so until Robin heals up..After that, what do we do about our rotations..JT ios the type of guy that would command 25-30 minutes a games…Something has to give…Who do we suggest…?
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
NEVER trade a 1st round pick
Unless you’re getting a guaranteed return on the player. Especially this early in the season, where a Nash injury could derail the entire year.
Near the trade deadline, if the Suns are solidified in the playoff hunt and just need a quality big man to get into championship contention, I’d be a little more willing.
by ajotanelsona on Nov 15, 2010 1:47 PM MST up reply actions
I would ahve to agree..
Then again, the Suns haven’t been world beaters in choosing in the first round either…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
We have a new analytics department...
They need to prove themselves.
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
All of this is made more difficult by the fact that Grant Hill refuses to slow down or suck like any respectable 38 year old would.
And he probably will play for at least 2 more seasons. While he may not make the HOF, he’s a HOF type talent, and we’ve been incredibly lucky to have him. I hope he does play another couple, and I hope he’s a Sun until he retires.
If the draft were held today, does anybody really think Dragic falls to the second round? Please – anybody who didn’t draft him should be fired, and anybody who suggests trading him for a 3rd stringer out of favor should be banned.
Dudley is the heart, soul, and captain of the leagues premier bench. We don’t make the WCF without him – hell, we may not make the playoffs last year without him. I know he’s not new and ‘shiny’ anymore, but you all are out of your mind. It’s not about the regular season – the minutes will arrange themselves, the averages will all come back into line, and everybody will contribute. And lastly, Robin is a stud. He has been a stud in the past, and he will be again in the future. We made an excellent pick with him, and we shouldn’t give up on him if he can still walk upright – because there are very few centers who are true 7 footers, and making the assumption that he’s injured now (knee notwithstanding) is based entirely on the statements of bloggers who have absolutely no knowledge of what’s going on. We have ourselves created the myth that he is still hurt – do you think Gentry or Aaron Nelson are going to let such a valuable commodity play if there’s a danger to his future? You all should know better.
All that being said, if JT is affordable, he would be a good asset to have. I’m comfortable with Gentry making everybody happy, and I still think that JT is already what we hope Lawal will be, only 3 inches taller and 30 lbs. heavier. Just don’t give up too much to get him. We couldn’t get a first round pick for Amar’e before the trade deadline last year – why should we give up talent and a first to get him?
Auntie Em: Hate you, hate Kansas, taking the dog.
Dorothy
Don't fret
While he may not make the HOF
He’s in based on his Detroit years alone.
making the assumption that he’s injured now (knee notwithstanding) is based entirely on the statements of bloggers
That’s actually based entirely on statements of Steve Nash and Robin Lopez from 5 days ago:
“I think Robin’s still trying to get back to his best, physically. He’s not moving the same as he did last year. He’s not covering the same amount of ground and it takes time,” Nash (still here) said.
The bottom line is what we’ve all seen. Lopez is just not the same guy. Here’s what Robin has to say about that.
“I think I’m not quite as explosive as I was last season. I need to get back to that, but I also kind of need to figure out how to play not being quite as explosive.”
Robin says it’s just part of the rehab process and that he expects it to come back, eventually. But his focus now is figuring out how to play with the body he has, not the body he wished he had. Clearly, that’s a struggle for him that he admits even contributes to some of the fouls he’s picking up, as he’s a step slow on his rotations.
Ask me about my moustache! http://us.movember.com/mospace/658192/
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
Well haremoor, just cuz' we don't agree ..
doesn’t mean we are out of our minds…everyone is entitled to their opinion…Personally, i feel JChill replicates most of what Dudz brings…The fact remains that we need a big…To get a quality big, we will have to give up something..and earl Clark by himself ain’t gonna get the job done…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Waiting game
I think we should just sign a free agent big man. I think what we just need is rebounding and size, and a bit defense in the post to defend the elite bigs like gasol, so i think JT is not the answer. He’s good on offense and rebounding, but just cant defend in a consistent basis.
But as what they’ve said, the Suns are just having fun when Robin is out on the floor. This stretch of games without Robin will be really really fun. Watch the Suns Rain THREE POINTERS again.
After seeing the poll results...
I am glad I am not the only one that guzzles Boone’s Farm…and here all along, i thought the folks on BSOTS were unrefined…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
Unless the Kings
Really don’t like this kid, I would think it would be tough to pry them away and not overpay being as that they are also in the same division as the Suns. I’m all for it though. Robin’s going to be gone “several weeks,” which probably means nearly 3 months once you get done with rehab. Further, I’m concerned that the Suns have a very talented, but injury prone 7 footer on their hands who may just spend most of his NBA career on the bench rehabbing some injury. Hope I’m wrong though.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Nov 15, 2010 6:22 PM MST up reply actions
I am hoping this is just bad luck for Robin...
Hopefully, he’ll recover quickly and put these injuries behind him…Another one or two injuries in the near term will have people talking about him in the same breath with…“GASP”… Greg Oden….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
D'oh! I just had a terrible thought.
Maybe Lopez’s injuries are karmic revenge for us making fun of Oden being injured all the time.
"One defends when his strength is inadequate, he attacks when it is abundant."
~Sun Tzu
by East Bay Ray on Nov 16, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
I just don't want "Blazer's Edge" to have anything on us...
I’ll start praying for Oden’s health….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
did you see how well turk played the 3 against denver
and that was against melo…
the sun’s need to play him at the 3.
Unfortunately, you are probably right...
The problem is we only have one true PF on the roster (if you don’t count Frye)….If we put Hedo at SF, it just exacerbates our SF problem and we won’t have anyone to back up Warrick…It’s tough to find enough minutes for everyone when you have like 6 small forwards on the same team….
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
this was the exact argument i was making
they need to get rid of one SF, and the only one who seems to be expendable is dudley. and don’t get this twisted, i love what dudley brings to the team, but at this point, a PF is what the suns need.
i don’t know if JT is the answer (i was pushing for kevin love). i liked what i have seen, and he more than fits the bill with size.
why not give lawal some burn?
i mean, since rolo is hurt, and presuming we sign barron, why not put siler on the inactive list, give lawal a chance at the pf spot. lots of teams have put their rookies as the starter and it will greatly help lawal and put hedo as the sf of the 2nd unit.
If only Rambis sticked to playing Love for 26 to 28 minutes like he did earlier at the start of the season
Then it will only be a matter of time before Love asked for a trade.
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
A 31 point, 31 rebound game tends to change a coaches' perspective....
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
It will be a gamble to see if JT will really mesh or at least be productive when inserted or given 20+ minutes coming from the bench. Why not take this time to play other players that we drafted. Like for example playing Clark or Lawal for a whole month for at least 20 mins.
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
this is a good idea
however, the sun’s are winning, and i don’t think they can afford to give unprovens more than 1-5 mins burn time every now and then (ie: clark last night).
and waiting until the trade deadline doesn’t give whoever the new guy is enough to time to mesh with the team (let alone learn the offense).
so, if the fans / suns think they are playoff / finals material, they need to upgrade the roster now
And the suggestion is to trade for someone who fell out of rotation?
In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks. - Calvin
Can't look at it in that perspective...
If we always looked at this at face value, we would have never acquired a benched Tim Thomas in 2006…That trade help take the team deep in the playoffs..
We make trades based off the players ability to help the team…regardless of his current status with the other team…Some players are not a good fit with scertain playing styles, coaches, etc…
I personally think JT would flourish in our system…
STAT may be gone but the Suns will rise....!
exactly!
unless team brass really don’t see lawal exceeding right now in the professional level, then of course, don’t play him. but i don’t think we’ve actually had the chance to see him perform yet.
as i said before
i don’t know if JT is the answer and i was wanting more of a kevin love type (someone who mainly gets rebounds and points off put backs. that’s why the suns have talent evaluators.
the only thing i can tell you is by watching videos of him playing that he looks the part, both skill / size wise.
let's give early...
maybe about the same 7 games to test his mettle. if he can provide us with, say roughly 6 boards around 15mpg, then we might not need to trade anyone. Seriously, all this trade, esp for a very popular teammate in jared dudley will just be absolutely heartbreak for team chemistry..
























