Reports: Cleveland Cavaliers Very Interested In Amare Stoudemire Trade
by Seth Pollack on Feb 12, 2010 8:16 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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PrintWhat happens when you take a whole bunch of owners and GMs, lots of agents and players, all the NBA media, drop down a record amount of snow to keep them off the streets and mix in a dash of Nancy Lieberman playing basketball with Terrell Owens all just days before the NBA trade deadline?
TRADE RUMORS GALORE!!!
And the first up for the Suns anyway, of course, involves Amare Stoudemire.
Both Woj from Yahoo! Sports and Cleveland.com's Brain Windhorst are reporting increased interest from the Cavs in trading for Amare.
The newest twist from Windhorst is the notion that the Cavs might also be willing to take on Jason Richardson's salary.
Since we've already broken down a straight up Amare to the Cavs for J.J. Hickson and Ilgauskas trade, let us waste some of our less precious time on how the deal would look if expanded to include Jason.
The Dolla Billz Yo
Sorry about that. I will now return to being a slightly overweight barely-under-40 white guy with a background in business and finance.
Straight up, a package of Amare and Jason is $29m in salary. Big Z and JJ Hickson are $13m. That leaves a gap of $16m but I believe when you allow for the 125% rule the Cavs would only need to cover a $9m gap. Don't worry if that doesn't make sense because it's about to get even nuttier.
I am pretty up to speed on the various machinations of trade rules under the current CBA but apparently there's a way that the Cavs could sign the basketball player formerly known as Wally Szczerbiak (PFKAWZ) and then promptly trade him to the Suns who would then keep him for the rest of this season (presumably he could at least carry towels) and then waive him this summer.
We last saw this little trick used to complete the deal that sent Devin Harris to the Nets for Jason Kidd. In that case it was Keith Van Horn who was yanked out of his slumber, paid something like $4m to go to New Jersey where he never played. Here's more on how that actually works - if you care. And if you care you might want to consider doing something about that. Like getting a life.
So let's just assume that all works somehow and David Stern approves this kind of chicanery to get the deal done.
That would leave the Suns with no Amare and no J-Rich but they would get sophomore PF J.J. Hickson, the ability to waive Big Z, and the PFKAWZ.
Once the Suns waived the remaining two years on PFKAWZ's contract and they would be left with a TON of cap space which (finally) is the point to all this madness.
The total roster (assuming Frye and Hill pick up their options) would be about $34m with 9 players under contract. With the salary cap estimated to be at $53m that leaves $19m under the cap to spend on 4 players and that means it's time for a....
SHOPPING SPREE!!!!
How would you feel about trying to get Joe Johnson back in Phoenix? Or what about a combination of David Lee and Rudy Gay? Maybe your preference leans towards the sublime in which case can I interest you in a Brian Scalabrine, Linus Kleiza, Travis Outlaw trio?
You get the point. With $19m in cap space suddenly the world is the Suns oyster and the gems are a-plenty.
You can write off the rest of this season, of course. You might as well just limit Nash to 20 minutes per game and start giving Earl Clark some serious run. But who cares, right? If you do this deal it's all about the re-build and you've given Steve Kerr and David Griffin the check book to do it.
But why would the Cavs agree?
Unfortunately, the Cavs would have to be both desperate and kind of foolish to do this. They might just be foolish, but they have no reason to be desperate given how well they are playing right now.
As I said before, the issue for the Cavs isn't the Amare-Shaq pairing from an offensive or chemistry perspective. They got along just fine. The problem is you can't put them on the court together and play good defense no matter how incredible LeBron James is. If you add J-Rich to the line up, you might as well completely give up on the Cavs being who they are - a great defensive team - and suddenly try and change them into something else all within the span of about two months before the playoffs. That's a HUGE risk.
You've basically taken 3/5ths of last year's Suns line up and replaced Steve Nash with Mo Williams and then added King James.
The only saving grace is Varejao.
One would assume that he would still play big minutes but he's already horrible on the floor with Shaq and if you put him together with Amare you've got a pretty awesome small ball front court, but you can't beat the Magic with that. John over at Cavs: The Blog broke this down pretty well.
Then consider the salary implications for Cleveland. Assuming Amare picks up his final year or agrees to a similar sized deal to stay in Cleveland they are sitting at about $63m without LeBron. Does he stay to play with Amare and Jason and Andy V? You damn well better be sure that he would before you pull the trigger.
In fact, let's just cut to the chase. The one guy that needs to approve this deal from the Cavs side is #23. This deal doesn't happen without the King's blessing.
But who cares about them anyway. It could be FREE AGENT SHOPPING TIME for the Suns!!! Yippie!!
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Man
In the long run it would probably be good but its also equivalent to throwing the rest of our season away which sucks no matter how you look at it
by IrrationalAgent on Feb 12, 2010 8:18 PM MST reply actions
Not my favorite trade
But if the Cavs take on JRich, then it’s at least palatable, because we could chase after any free agent we wanted and still be under the cap.
This would involve me having confidence in Kerr/Sarver to (a) use the money and (b) not spend it on new hats
So do I feel lucky?
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
Its interesting
i still think i prefer a miami trade to get beasley but it seems Kerr won’t go for that. Its a good trade as long as Kerr actually uses the cap space to sign someone.
Why wouldn't Kerr go for the Miami trade?
I think it sounds like Miami may not be willing to pull the trigger.
I dun trust Kerr's ability to trade with Ferry
Not getting a first round pick or JJ. in the deal for Shaq is ample grounds for concern…
I would be patient amare is not going to opt out and there are good players in 2011 including carmelo anthony plus if we keep j-rich we can trade him for a good player because he’d be an expiring contract..plus what is the use of having cap space if nobody wants to play for you. haha we end up signing maurice evans
Who wouldn't want to play with Steve Nash?
Nash + our young core makes Phoenix a very attractive destination
by hcblankscreen on Feb 12, 2010 8:45 PM MST up reply actions
maybe this is wishful thinking, but i dont think he means that. i think most of this year’s free agents have said at one point that they want to remain with their teams, but they are still testing the market. if the suns are able to get good young pieces for amare and nash down the road, i think phoenix would become a more appealing option. i think nene and kenyon will be becoming free agents next season. billups will be pretty old. ty lawson and affalo are pretty nice pieces. but i think the suns should have more to offer if they dont screw up horribly (fingers crossed). i know melo has had some success there of late, but if lebron and wade are willing to test the free agent waters, i think we would have a pretty good chance.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 12, 2010 9:08 PM MST up reply actions
You’d almost certainly think that Bosh will move, Lebron will get out of Clevland, Wade may be fed up with crappy Miami at this point… I think with Miami’s concern is that if they DON"T land Amare they know they will probably loose Wade which is the reason this rip off of a trade for Miami was even talked about.
I don’t know why so many people assume Lebron is leaving…Cleveland can offer him the most and he he will actually be on a good team. New York, New Jersey, Miami, all pale in Comparsion….Well, Maybe not New Jersey…playing with Brook Lopez, Devin Harris, and CDR might be kind of appealing to Lebron. But The Knicks would be Lebron, Gallinari, Jordan Hill and a bag of chips. Also. the whole idea that Miami is going to sign Bosh, Wade, and Lebron is insane..That would leave 90% of the cap space in three players, what about the other nine?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
19 million
In cap room is not that much, considering that we Sign Joe Johnson which would command about 13-15 million alone…That would leave us with four to six million to fill in three more gaps…not that great….Plus, if this JJ hickson were in Toronto or Memphis doing what he is doing, he wouldn’t even be on the radar the fact that he is playing with LeBron makes him more widely known since the Cavs are on national TV about 3 times a week. Miami, Phili, Chicago, Golden State, New Jersey, Detoirt….All of the other Amare rumors I’ve heard I like better than this one.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Totally agree
But the way the cap works is you can go over by signing guys to escalating deals etc…, there are ways to go over, so that 19 million turns into 30 million easily… which should be more than enough to get things done.
What? No
JJ Hickson can ball, tons of upside.
by hcblankscreen on Feb 12, 2010 9:34 PM MST up reply actions
crazy snub.
jj belongs on that sophomore team. hey he’s just starting on the best team in the nba.. but.. well whatever. let’s not go down that old snub road….
suns fans, if you get this guys, rest assured youre getting decent value for amare. no, he’s not as good. but youre getting someone who can get close to as good.
lookit, i think the guy jumps higher than lebron. you will witness sick dunks with nash feeding him.
from our side, i can accept giving up jj for amare. i’m against using him for antawn j.
I’m not saying he is a bad player but he isn’t THAT good, If it were Jason Thompson I’d be a little more excited but when Hickson is on the floor he is the fifth option and is almost ALWAYS wide open. Shaq, no matter how old, slow, and fat he is still commands a double team, as well as Lebron and you have to keep Guys on Delonte West and Mo Williams or else they’ll burn you with the three so Hickson is left with the scraps. I’d say Maxiell and Speights are both better players than him by a pretty large margain. There is just so many other ways where we can get a better player back and save money, this is just a straight salary dump like I had a feeling they were going to do.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
all respect rza, but...
… it’s been crazy watching jj grow this season. he’s going to be a star and an exciting star to watch. i’m going to compare to durant – stay with me – in his frame and athleticism. nowhere near as polished a scorer and wont be.
i dunno. maybe these stuffs on dwade and dhoward were flukes. but i think not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyIDOQ5sW3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UmskkFn5oY
they were....
Flukes. He doesn’t even average half a block a game.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
and
I’m not trying to be rude but in this week It went from we’re probably going to keep him, to we’re going to trade him for Igoudala, then down to trading him for Beasley, now it’s down to trading him for JJ Hickson. that’s a HUGE drop off. JJ does look promising but he’s never going to be a star or ever fill the void STAT will leave behind.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
:-) to be honest.. the scenarios are different.
igoudala is a salary dump by philly.. and would hang you (suns) with a big contract. dont misunderstand, i think AI2 is huge talent.. just saying it’s a different deal. and beasley? potential head case. gut feeling. wade looks like he hates him.
and last, the main thing, is dont look at year long stats. his play has taken off in the last month.
Beasley is barely 21 and had a problem with pot of all things and had the weight of the world on his shoulders…Now, Even Michael Beasley was on the same team as Ricky Davis or was 27 or 28 years old it would be a problem but he was barely out of his teens when this incident happened. don’t even try to put Hickson on the same level as Beasley, that is just insane. I’m not looking for a straight salary dump but we can do a deal with Miami and save $11,739,725. We get under the luxury tax, have Richardson’s expiring deal next year to deal and get a better player in return.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
rza..
i hear you. you have to take the best deal. didn’t mean to sell you on jj… but i’m pretty sure not too many people are hip to what he’s been doing and wanted to let you know that he’s a stronger player than you think. the kid is sleeper underrated. plus… since he wasn’t drafted #2… he can just progress at his pace.
yeah man young talent is great but young talent is just that young talent, a deal with amare and you guys are landing the best PF scorer in the league for a prospect of talent in JJ.
This isn’t baseball where young pitching will eventually deliver, an athletic big man in the NBA come a dime a dozen.
True dat
I love to hear justification for some of these trades that Cleveland stirs up. Seriously nobody on Suns management is dumb enough to trade away Amare for JJ Hickson to save some cash we may as well sign him to a max deal. I love how the media turns one thought into some big scheme because they have nothing else to report on.
Still, he’s averaging 0.4 BPG and he’s playing around 20 Minutes….Steve Nash is averaging 0.2 BPG. Rasheed Wallace, the future Mr. Jenny Craig himself is playing four more minutes a game is averaging 0.8 with a cheeseburger in one hand and is 13 years older.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
by TheRza82 on Feb 12, 2010 10:10 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Dude I dont want him
I just want fair comparisons. I think we are in agreement on most things Rza unfortunately I cannot say that about anyone else on here.
I know, I’m just very frustrated. It’s so hard being a Suns fan sometimes, we’re so good but never have anything to show for it. I got really into a lot of these scenarios but this one was always in the back of my head, the straight salary dump for our star player. I’m not hating on Hickson by any means but it just seems a lot of people are way too enamored with him.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
hear you.
you guys have had SO much talent going through there. it must suck. fwiw, if you’re an older suns fan, do you remember when you sent larry nance to the cavs? that was a stacked cavs team… that never got the finals. and it did truly suck.
They say the Suns are the most cursed NBA team (because of the lost coin tosses for Lew Alcindor and David Robinson), but the Cavaliers might be the second most cursed. It might even be a tie.
by species8473 on Feb 12, 2010 10:27 PM MST up reply actions
i'm old.
but. i remember that 76 series against the celts. i remember it because our starting center broke his ankle in the celts series and if he hadnt itd have been you and us in the finals.
so we can all agree we don’t like the celts can’t we?
Sorry, but I love the Celtics and am a fan of Celtic mystique. Please don’t hate me.
by species8473 on Feb 12, 2010 10:51 PM MST up reply actions
ouch.
wow. i did NOT know you lost coin flips for those two. that’s horrible. alcindor probably wouldve have stayed in phx his whole career.
over here, we know we got very lucky to win the lebron lottery…
Anthony Randolph has a better upside than this Hickson guy.
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
embrace jj..
.. if this happens. you probably haven’t heard of him but he’s a freak athlete who is an enthusiastic learner. he gets better every game.
as a cavs fan, i enjoy watching these friends play ball. i think our chemistry sets us apart and jj’s role as ‘little bro’ as well as developing star is a nice component there.
i think i speak for most cavs fans when i say i’m very conflicted about trading jj. i love the guy. it was a ridiculous snub to leave him off the sophomore team this weekend. but mainly, he’s a good guy. (check him being hazed by delonte for jim rome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZukVN_djZds )
leaving amare’s and jason’s talent aside… do you suns fans think they’ll fit in with the cavs? you know… the silly handshakes… the cognizance that lebron is the man… willing acceptance of their roles… getting serious about playing defense?
really interested in your opinions. thanks!
ps: just watched that clip… and i think i’m leaning toward hanging onto jj. :-)
Dude STAT is a workhorse
He will be in the gym more than Bron day in and day out, I think a defensive minded leader in Lebron will shape him up and we will be kicking ourselves for letting him go.
both guys seem to be pretty good team players.thye’ve been on what i consider pretty loose outfits here and in GS, so they shouldn’t have problems with handshakes ant whatnot.i think they’d accept their roles in CLE. jrich has done a nice job fitting in here. if it werent for his contract, im sure everyone here would love him. he could be the same spot up shooter he is here. amare seemed to like playing with shaq all right. lebron amare pick and roll could be devastating. amare has said for a couple of years that he wants to improve his defense. its been a little better this year, but maybe the cavs could coax even more out of him.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 12, 2010 9:43 PM MST up reply actions
Dude that clip was hilarious
Delonte is a crackup
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 13, 2010 8:45 AM MST up reply actions
Caves Trade
I am not a fan of basketball but I am a REAL fan of the Caves I think that if we trade JJ and Z we would be making the biggest mistake of the season we will destroy the great chemistry that the team currently have. I thought we were after a championship this seasaon? Hey Vp’s have you ever heard of if it ain’t broke don’t fix it? I hope we wake up from this bad dream before this turns into a complete nightmare…..
by Lakesha Robinson Farrow on Feb 12, 2010 9:42 PM MST reply actions
You guys won't get past the semis with that team
Boston will beat you, Orlando will beat you, and probably A-Town, maybe even Miami when THEY land Amare, give it up your team is a bunch of scrubs and Lebron.
haha at boston.
boston is disintegrating. they’re out in the first round as currently constructed.
we have atl’s number, they totally turtled last year. yes they’re talented, but they dont have confidence against us.
lol at miami.
orlando is factor, yes. last night looked way too much like last year’s conf finals.
scrubs? we prefer ‘role players.’ and if you think AV is a scrub you’re just not paying attention.
but… why the hate on cleveland? good lord. no titles since 1964. in any sport. throw us a bone, man.
I'm sorry
You are right it is a hard life in Cleveland. But you fans aren’t stupid the whole Clevland team is a bunch of scrubs AV is an overpaid defensive player whats he get 10+ a year? Old Shaq, Old Z, some skinny little guards in Gibson and West. Man I think Lebron is under rated with that talent pool he is playing with to be able to be at .500.
:-) you hit it.
you hit on my preference: i’d like to have a center under 35 years old after this. call me crazy. if i could pick, i’d go after al jefferson… and it blows my mind that his name is out there.
Yeah man I bet if you guys threw JJ hickson at Minny they’d bite, that was the first trade talk with them AJ for Amare I wish that’d gone through, JJ Hickson might be a nice addition there they can just farm all of their young players a few years and let them progress together…
I was drooling for Jefferson..We’d have to change our gameplay up a little bit but god he’s a grown ass man, he could do some damage in Phoenix actually having players around him other than Corey Brewer and Kevin Love…who aren’t bad but come on?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Yeah I dunno man Minny will be aforce in a few years
I just didn’t see why they’d want Amare, didn’t they say they’d pay him his quota he just didn’t want to play there?
I’m Not sure…I know Minny was talking with Indiana about a possible swap of Jefferson/Granger….I wouldn’t mind trading Amare, Earl Clark, and a posisble future second rounder to Indiana for Granger and TJ Fords expiring deal… I’ll even throw in Richardson and they can give us Murphy…As much as people don’t like him, I love his game. He can shoot the three and rebound like a mad man…
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
yeah granger plays hard
nobody gets to see him play so nobody knows what he can do, i know however he is the 4-5 pick in fantasy ball because he lights up a box score.
I have nothing against Cleveland, myself. I don’t like LeBron James, because he comes off as an egotistical, arrogant SOB, but I don’t dislike him enough to begrudge Cleveland some happiness.
by species8473 on Feb 12, 2010 10:31 PM MST up reply actions
+1 about your view on Lebron
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
stupid trade
What is wrong with everyone who voted yes.
If we were to trade amare and jrich and get back jj hickson and money and no first round pick once nash retires in 2 years we will have no franchise player or a go to player who which to build around.
And wake up people, all stars dont wanna come to phoenix, its a city that does appeal what so ever to big name players. We will not land an all star in free agency, for gods sake get a first round pick
I dont agree with you on the area,
I think it is probably the 5 th or 6th largest NBA market in the US. I am in no favor of this trade but if we gonna ship Amare out we gots to make JRich go with him so we can spend some dollaaas.
Why wouldn't they?
Hill knows we are the fountain of life in Phx he enjoys playing I’m sure and would rather play than sit on the bench like he’d be doing on other teams. If Channing walks he walks he is replaceable it would be nice to have him off the bench though.
If Amare and Jrich are traded its rebuilding time........
That means no more old farts and its time to run young with heavy minutes for Dragic and Clark as well.
No need to keep Nash around if this trade goes through as this is a complete BLOW up and and rebuild trade.
I agree
Once this trade with the Cavs comes through, it’s time to say bye bye to MVSteve. Perhaps Hill won’t pick his option when Nash goes. I hope Channing doesn’t his own too and LB get bought out or included in some deal too. While I hate to see Nash go, I can’t help but feel excited on the fact that Goran, Robin and Earl are about to receive a lot more minutes. Dudley & Lou should be also be retained.
Until we could sign an athletic 2 guard that plays on both ends, J-Rich should not be traded.
We all want to fall in love. Why? Because that experience makes us feel completely alive,where every sense is heightened, and every emotion is magnified. Our everyday reality is shattered and we are flying into the heavens. It may only last a moment, an hour, or an afternoon, but that doesn't diminish its value, because we are left with memoriesthat we treasure for the rest of our lives.
I agree...to a certain extent
We don’t want to become the Nets and completely blow it up. Just because we’re losing two veterans doesn’t mean we should jettison the other vets. You need some sort of veteran presence on the team, and if Nash goes, so does everything.
And for not having our own (first round) draft pick this year or next, I strongly suggest we don’t do that.
Though I do agree, I think I’d be excited seeing Dragic/Lopez/Clark getting more minutes.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 13, 2010 9:27 AM MST up reply actions
I wonder whether Steve Nash would accept the role of a specialist with very limited minutes. Shooting specialist, probably.
by species8473 on Feb 13, 2010 10:21 AM MST up reply actions
Nope.
Nor should he. That would be the biggest disrespect you could pay to the guy.
Kerr: Hey…we know you’re awesome, and that you’re having an MVP-type year, but would you mind just sitting behind the 3 point arc and launching shots? I hear you’re pretty good at them.
Nash: (Has visions of Eric Piatkowski or Steve Novak)
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 13, 2010 6:12 PM MST up reply actions
Im officially turning in my Suns card
if this goes down. I actually had a Suns rep hand deliver the playoff and season tix renewal package today and told him he could hold onto it until Thurs afternoon…looks like he can just tear both up if this happens. Does ANYONE believe that Sarver would actually spend the money for a max contract? Hell, according to Coro, they haven’t even made Amare ANY OFFER! I have been hearing about cap flexability for years from these bozos & Im sick of it..do you think any of these guys want to play for Sarver? You think Joe would EVER come back here? Hell, just read Joe’s comments about trading Stat in todays arcticle. Players talk, and Jerry C isn’t here anymore-the only reason anyone would come here is Nash and they’re watching him politic in the media for the Suns to keep Stat..this blows..this organization is a joke. Is this what it feels like to follow the Clippers, a team that cares less about winning than the bottom line? I hope Stat wears his ring he’ll win in Cle on his middle finger and shows it to Sarver & Kerr next year when he visits, although, if they make this move I have a feeling Stevie will be the fall guy when this blows up in the Suns’ face.
I think your points are way off
Sarver is willing to spend, he gave Nash a ton of money - that Mark Cuban Moneybags himself wasn’t willing to match, so Nash walked. He spend cash on Shaq- unfortunately he didn’t produce or else they would have kept him. Finally remember how they MATCHED Atlantas offer for JJ? And JJ refused and said he wanted to be the center of a team because he wanted to be the playmaker?? WHY would we want him back?
I can GUARANTEE you they will give Amare a good offer 16-18 range just not max I do not call Suns management cheap at all they want a good return on their investments….
Not true..
Joe left because the Suns lowballed him 2 years in a row and he got fed up. Please don’t listen to Gambo’s (Sarvers mole) BS, he was so put off by the negotiations he wanted out. By the way, a player cannot refuse to have his offer sheet matched when he’s a restricted FA, if the Suns wanted to match, they could have, and Joe woulda got over his anger after that 1st check. As far as Amare, I’m in agreement he shouldn’t get a max deal, but they’re in HEAVY trade talks w/o ever even OFFERING ANYTHING to him..finally, I agree he shelled out for Nash right when he bought the team, since then he’s sold the #7 pick in the draft for $3 mil, countless others for a million or two, given away MORE 1st round picks so people would take salary off our hands, and on and on and on…I’ve supported this team thru drug scandals, the DJ-Robey trade, but this is it for me.
actually if you did your research youd see he only sold 1 draft pick
that was Rudy Fernandez, the Rondo situation he drafted for Boston in replace of Bostons 2007 first rounder. So hate all you want Rudy Fernandez wouldn’t have put this team over the hump by any means.
Well...
We did trade Luol Deng for the dazziling Jackson Vroman, and a 2005 first round draft pick in Nate Robinson…Which we traded for Kurt Thomas and a jar of Dijon Mustard. Seriously, we traded for Dijon Thompson.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Do you remember where Kurt Thomas got us??
Couple conference finals… Plus we got Chicago’s future first rounder, its not like we are trading these for straight cash money we get picks in return. Loul Deng wasn’t even the best player in that draft at the time, I think we could have gotten IGGY, Al Jefferson, Keven Martin, Ariza, Verejo
But who knows where we would of gotten with the other guys….Thomas was good but it’s not like he carried us to the conference finals. Deng would of been a huge mismatch for the Spurs depending on how we worked our line up. Also, we did that future draft pick we got in return from Chicago turn into?
I’ve never been a huge Nate fan but I loved when the Suns drafted him….I would of loved to see Nate on the Seven Seconds or Less teams.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I'm not sure if we've even gotten it yet
It just said for future draft pick and thats it so maybe its floating around and its a protected lottery pick or something— we all know Chicago’s been there for the last 10 years.
What really pisses me off is the Barbosa draft, we made SA draft him in 03 and they made us draft David Lee for SA in 05 we could have gotten Monta Ellis. If only we hadn’t picked up Barbs
Are you kidding?
Aside from this year, Barbosa has been nothing short of extremely integral to the team. 6th Man of the Year? Yes, please.
Most Improved Player of the Year, who then crashes a moped in the offseason? Not so much.
That being said, I still really like Monta. I would just rather have Barbosa, at this point.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 13, 2010 9:31 AM MST up reply actions
If only Barbosa would stop being such an emo.
by species8473 on Feb 13, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
I'm just saying
To previous arguments about selling/switching pics etc… there is always a flip side to anything the manangement does, people argued about our selling of Loul in exchange for some cash and Kurt Thomas, but the valid point there is Kurt brought us farther than Loul could have those years.
Same thing goes with the Barbosa draft it was a nice decision to trade picks with SA that year so we could land Barbs, but in retrospect we could have gotten something better if we would have waited…
What? The Spurs drafted David Lee? Then they’re probably sorry they traded him to the Knicks instead of keeping him.
by species8473 on Feb 13, 2010 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
Thing with Deng is he is an undersized 4 and too slow of a 3
He would have been fun in the SSOL but kind of marionish, plus we’d have to have given him his 70 million dollar deal or whatever chicago gave him
I don’t mind the lost Spanish draft picks, because Fernandez is just okay, and Rodriguez is mediocre. Rondo is good, but he’s a head case. Goran Dragic is clearly a better teammate than Rondo.
by species8473 on Feb 12, 2010 10:33 PM MST up reply actions
And the 2 1st round picks
we traded with K Thomas, and the 1st round pick (NY’s pick this year, a lottery pick) we traded Utah with Googs, so there’s 3 more we gave away just to shed salary…and yes, $3 million for the #7 pick in ‘04 plus a future 1st is selling a pick. Look, I wish it was different, but it’s not. Read Bill Simmons “Book of Basketball,” in his “what ifs” chapter, about what if Sarver hadn’t bought the Suns..I don’t take pleasure in hating our owner, but he gives me no choice.
I own that book
But you could say that about a lot of teams, what if they’d done this or that no point in that man. Trading picks is not selling a pick, the Kurt Thomas thing was really dumb but it shed salary to keep Amare here and eventually pay for Shaq, it wasn’t my favorite thing but we were looking to win now *just like clevland is doing now.
Agree w/ you there,
but trading one of the cornerstone’s of this team who’s 27 w/o ever even offering him an extension for pennies on the dollar is a straight up money move..JJ Hickson is a role player at best, the 1st round pick is really a 2nd (they have the best record in the league, after all,) not to mention it will crush the spirits of a team that’s actually pretty good and we will spend the next 5 yrs looking for someone like Amare..look, if he won’t accept anything but a max deal then I get it, but don’t you owe it to your fans to at least see what kind of numbers it would take? This team could end up with a 4-5 seed and make noise in the playoffs & instead Sarver wants to save money. That sucks.
+1
funny how sshowards stories are a little off sometimes
If they offer amare 16-18 and he doesnt take it then unfortunately he might have to go..Ive been arguing with everyone that said trade him but with the cap decreasing I think Stat has to be reasonable and if he really does want to compete for a championship he should be fair in negotations so we can make a move I dont think we are far away we just need a player like Marcus Camby and consistency and we can compete with a lot of teams
+ 1: Sarver won't agree to a max contract for any FA
Winning a ring is not as important as cutting salary and selling picks…
I already understood full well that people are bored with the pointless trade talk, but I just want to observe that the sudden appearance of people who never post, and the relative quietness of the regulars, proves it.
appreciate the hospitality!
wanted to drop in and get the pulse on this possibility from people who know. can empathize with a team looking at losing a cornerstone.. hopefully something good will happen for you all.
btw – big karlos dansby fan here and go beanie wells!
JJ is out of the question. He won’t want to come here and the guy will be 30 years old. Iggy is a better player in my mind and younger. Bosh is the main guy I would want to come to the Suns next season if we got all this cap relief.
True dat
I love David Lee though, fat white boy who can run the floor rebound shoot.
There is quite a bit to drool over though check it out:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10
If Channing...
Doesn’t renew his option, I wouldn’t mind signing Leon Powe for a back up…He’s had some injury history so he might want to work with our training staff to stay healthy for once.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
JJ is like 21….? Who are you talking about being 30?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
He was 21; I think he’s currently 29. I don’t want to spend 15m on a guy who only has 2-3 good years left on him. In less he was Kobe of course.
wow i didn't know he was 30
i wouldn’t want him back here anyhow he’s a sellout but i bet we could get him for a bargin price.
Oh Jesus….Ha, that was confusing…sorry dude!
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Me too. I was referring to the CAP RELIEF part of the deal and people mentioned Joe Johnson as a possible player to sign.
Well, a lot of people seem to be REALLY high on him…He’s a nice young promising player…but..being young and talented only gets you so far in the NBA.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I think ive spent way too much time talking about a dude i’ve only see play a handful of times this is ridiculous!
I know…he does look promising but, there is more than a handfull of big guys out there who have just as much talent or more as he does…It’s just that the Cavs are in about every ESPN/TNT double header and always are on the ABC games..The Cavs are literally on 3-4 times a week nationally so of course he is going to be praised…Every big dunk/stuff he has done has been on national TV. Look what Hansbrough is doing in the wastelands of Indiana….No one has ANY idea how good he’s been playing.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Yeah...
Joe would be an idiot for turning his back on Atlanta too…he burned Phoenix to go to Atlanta of all places and everyone laughed…Now look at Atlanta…If they can keep the core of Horford/Johnson/Smith/Williams in tact and if Jeff Teague is as good as everyone says he will be…Atlanta will be the Class of the East while Lebron is stuck in Scrubsville in Cleveland and The Magic are still 40 billion dollars over the cap and The Celtics are a pile of bones and Rajon Rondo.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Dude, JJ Hickson was born in 1988.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jj_hickson/index.html
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
He was talking about Joe Johnson
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by Trevor Paxton on Feb 13, 2010 9:34 AM MST up reply actions
SSO, you use the phrase “farm their young players.” I like that idea for any team, and said some things about it in the “Blow it up!” thread. The point I tried to make was, it’s very entertaining and emotionally satisfying to watch young players grow together if they’re a good group, and the Phoenix Suns haven’t done that since 1986-1992, when they put Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek and Dan Majerle together. The alternative to this is to cobble together young players and free agents from different teams with different mindsets, and hope to hell that it works out. Every team the Suns have had since 1992-93 has been an example of that. Especially Barkley’s group. That team was great, but I think it was a Frankenstein team, putting an Eastern Conference-style, clock-killing bruiser (Charles Barkley) and a psycho who was notorious for taunting and fighting (Danny Ainge) with a team of high-scoring young players who were probably kind of like Nash’s teams.
If the Suns blow up their team by trading Amare Stoudemire for junk, I’d rather that they forget about welding their promising young players (Dragic, Lopez) together with some older star from another team who might have come here for the money and might have his own agenda.
Oops—yes, I knew Jeff Hornacek was not teamed with Charles Barkley. What I meant was, he had been a main part of the team culture before Barkley came in.
by species8473 on Feb 12, 2010 11:21 PM MST up reply actions
I like this trade for us, although i’d rather give up expirings and draft picks and keep JJ but if you guys force us to give him up i’m fine with that. The way i see it is we hope JJ will one day be the player Amare is today. So i’m all for a Amare/Richardson for Z/JJ/Wally/picks. But the only thing that confuses me about this is what you guys get out of it…if the Suns agree to this trade aren’t you kind of committing to tanking Nash’s remaining productive seasons? And if that’s the case it makes me feel bad for him because he seems like a good guy who deserves a couple more attempts at a ring.
You are talking about us tanking for Nash in the same breath as offering us even less for Amare. Have a heart.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 13, 2010 6:47 AM MST up reply actions
Keeping JJ was my head speaking not my heart, it would be fairer if you get him. And this deal will be good for you guys long term even if it’s not exactly balanced. Like the L.A-Memphis trade, the lakers got their all star and their ring and even though it looked like Memphis got screwed they got a promising center who will help them for a long time, they also got a chance to rebuild quicker and they’re already contending for a playoff spot with a bright future ahead of them.
That could be the Suns in the next few seasons…although that doesn’t help Nash, the Suns returning to the playoffs might not happen until he’s retired or at least declined from his current level.
by CavsLebronFan on Feb 13, 2010 9:05 AM MST up reply actions
Antone who read Coro's article last night knows why Amare is on the move.
His quotes were all over the place and he is not, nor ever really has been committed to this team. It is not about winning it is about the money. He wants to make sure everyone know he will play for them for the right price. Really, is there a team he did not mention in his interview. I hope for the best for Amare, but if all he wants is money that is all he will get. No championship and not historic reputation or hall-of-fame.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 13, 2010 7:22 AM MST reply actions
Weird
“They never really explain why the trade talk is coming, why they want to trade me. I’ve done a lot of work in the community. I’ve been trouble-free forever, so I just don’t understand.”
Either Amare really is confused or he’s playing the victim.
Amare: how about your contract. You know your demands vs. your worth? This is business, you know business.
He’s done a total about face on this. He seemed to be enjoying all of the speculation at the beginning. He spoke like he was in command. Now it sounds like he’s either really insulted, or he’s trying to create friction with the FO to force the trade. Or, both or neither. Now I’m confused.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 13, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
All this cap space may not
equal getting players here. Joe Johnson will never play in Phoenix again. LeBron, Wade I can not see here. Bosh would be a long shot.
I would like Lee. If the deal goes down with Cleveland, Kerr must get there no.1 even though it will be in the 30’s. Having Hickson, Lee and Lopez as a front line is nice.
Agreed
I can accept tanking this rest of the season for young talent, cap space and a #1. That’s the best you can hope for in this situation.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 13, 2010 9:02 AM MST up reply actions
at least 2 #1's
Because a #30 pick is more like a second rounder. If we miss out on the playoffs we don’t even have a chance at a lotto pick so #30 is not worth that much.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 13, 2010 9:17 AM MST up reply actions
Wow i just posted that a minute ago...
Thats why the Miami deal makes more sense, their pick will be in the teens not the late 20s
You guys crack me up...
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 13, 2010 9:27 AM MST reply actions 1 recs
dont know if that link worked but here is a scenario:
heat get: amare stoudemire
warriors get: jason richardson and earl clark
suns get: michael beasley, quentin richardson, anthony randolph, and monta ellis
starting 5: nash- ellis- beasley- randolph- lopez
amazing future right there.
by ryanstrtddafire99 on Feb 13, 2010 10:28 AM MST up reply actions
I don't think the Warriors do this
They are trying to dump maggette. So if he were in ellis’ place that might work.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 13, 2010 12:01 PM MST up reply actions
Cavs only want Stoudemire
Z and Hickson for Stoudemire. That’s it. Then they are hoping Phoenix releases Z so that he can return to the Cavs in 30 days.
by inquisitiveman on Feb 13, 2010 10:42 AM MST reply actions
Suns can do better than that
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 13, 2010 11:22 AM MST up reply actions
The Funny Thing
is this deal w/ the Cavs makes so much more sense for the Suns if they can move JRich too.
If its straight up Amare for Hickson and Big Z the Suns don’t get all that much cap space for this summer and get worse this season.
If JRich is included, I don’t think the team is all that much worse for this season and they get to reload this summer.
JRich expires next season so you could argue for just waiting until 2011 and then they will have all that cap space BUT then you are wasting one precious year of Nash’s remaining limited time.
I think I could get excited about going into this summer with a roster that includes Nash and Hill along with solid young talent in Lopez. Clark Dragic Dudley and Hickson. Still have LB and Frye (most likely) and probably resign Lou as well.
But then you can go after a mid-career guy or two to fill in the gaps at the wing and big and put together a roster that could be pretty darn good next season.
I think it is silly to think that free agents wouldn’t want to come to Phoenix btw.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
So if we're calculating cap space for this summer
Do we use their salaries for this season or their salaries for next season? If we have like ~17 million in cap space that should be enough for one max offer or two very good players. I just don’t know who we’d target…
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Ever hear of the Kaiser Chiefs?
Rudy Rudy Rudy Ga-a-a-a-a-ay
David Lee+Rudy Gay wouldn't be a bad offseason
Nash/Dragic
Gay/Barbosa
Hill?/Dudley
Lee/Hickson
Lopez/Amundson
It’s okay I guess. I just don’t think it’s a team that contends for the title.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I just don't want us to pull a Detroit this summer
And spend all of our capspace by overpaying two role players that don’t take us over the hump.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Man I know we’ve not seen much of Lee and Gay but I stream a ton of NY games (D-antoni’s teams are still fun to watch) even though I don’t care for NY and I tell you what that kid Lee is ridiculous I could see him get a 15+ year contract this Summer that kid is just a work horse similar to Love but can run the floor better and play off the pick and roll better.
Rudy Gay has to be a top 3-5 SF in the league—— so I don’t know if I’d call either on a roll player.
I’d be kind of sad to see Gay leave Memphis that team is so stacked they are a blast to watch:
Connoly, Mayo, Gay, Randolph, Gasol
that's the BIG risk
or Portland for that matter who couldn’t get the guys they wanted and settled
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 13, 2010 12:26 PM MST up reply actions
Well nobody forced Portland to settle, its not like they were building for contention and over paid andre miller.
We won’t be building for contention either, so worst case scenario we do what we can and if we can’t land anybody which seems highly unlikely considering the numbers of FA this offseason we do it in 2012
The other risk is that we end up screwing ourselves by handing out big dollars right before the new CBA comes around...
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Not really
There will have to be a phase in period for a hard cap so contracts today won’t negatively reflect us going forward with a hard cap
Remember you don't necessarily have to use cap space on FA
we don’t have to settle if we’re not going to contend anyway, we can wai until some sucker team needs to dump some cash and sends a star our way for a conditional second rounder.
true dat
its not like we are on the tipping point of a championship thats why i don’t understand why portland dropped taht much cash.
Portland did it because they wanted an asset
the extensions for Roy and Aldridge kick in after this season so that would fill the cap space. By signing miller they got a guy they got something with it, we’re not in that situation though because none of our young’uns need extensions yet.
+1
Totally hit what I’ve been trying to say all along.
The only thing is disagree with is that Nash has limited time left… He has 2 years on his contract but who’s to say he wont go at least 1 more after that? His shooting numbers are still up so that means his legs are still good at his age that is the most important factor. So it’s a stretch but as long as we baby him and keep his minutes below 30 for the next couple of years possibly giving him days off on back to backs I see no reason why he can’t return a couple seasons from now.
Phoenix has to be the 5th biggest market for NBA -- NY, LA, CHI, BOS, Dallas/Phx so I dont understand why everyone talks like we are Milwaukee or Toronto… we have a huge city, large basketball following—- (other than LA we are the biggest NBA dominated city) NY has the Yanks, Chi has the Bears, Bos has the red sox and pats, Dallas has the Cowboys…
Phoenix is strictly a Suns City— that can’t even be argued.
+ Playing with Nashty your PPG +20% minimum!!
it is??
Great, but I didn’t know it was still a Suns city. I thought that casual fans’ attention was too distracted by the Cardinals, Diamondbacks, and (in rare cases) the Coyotes. That’s one of the only ways I can explain why, despite two trips to the conference finals, the Suns don’t seem to have the insane Madhouse on McDowell popularity they once did. Consider the legendary May(?) 1992 series against Portland. Those fans made so much damn noise that the Suns team used sign language and the Blazers were seriously distracted. (I’m surprised if Al McCoy’s broadcast could even be heard.) And that was just a semifinals series! The Suns just don’t get that anymore.
by species8473 on Feb 13, 2010 12:46 PM MST up reply actions
Anymore meaning a couple of years??? or what?
I was there during the post season a couple of years back and during the playoffs you couldnt even get a table at Applebees in the suburbs it was so packed with Suns fans. Of course some buzz has left because we missed the post season last year but truly when we make it this season you’ll see the buzz is back in the house.
Phoenix has to change their style of play
to win a championship. They might be exciting to watch, but i can’t see how they are gonna win a championship with no defense, thus i can’t see them luring away very good players in the free agent market. With the new CBA, players are gonna get less anyway.
by inquisitiveman on Feb 13, 2010 11:25 AM MST reply actions
How were the festivities last night
I didn’t get a chance to catch anything, I bet the game was pretty fun, there was some real talent playing….
If the trade included Hickson, Danny Green and two first rounders(2010, 2012) + they take on Richardson's contract then it's much more palatable to me.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
If they give us that
They are the dumbest team ever, but if they give us that we might as well try to get their 2011 pick as well.
You can't trade consecutive picks
So it would have to be 2011/2013 or 2010/2012
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
LOL....you think the Cavs are that crazy
Yeah right!!
by inquisitiveman on Feb 13, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
Not that it sheds any new light
But ESPN changed their “Cavs pursuing Stoudemire” story to say that the Suns are insisting that a young player and a first round pick MUST be in any Stoudemire trade, that the Suns aren’t totally committed to trading him, and that several other teams’ chances of landing STAT are just as good as Cleveland’s.
That sounds more reasonable
Cavs would probably offer Z, Gibson, and a 1st rounder.
by inquisitiveman on Feb 13, 2010 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
much rather have Hickson than Gibson...
the issue here is that the Cavs really don’t have much to offer beyond Hickson and expirings…certainly not compared to other teams
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 13, 2010 3:53 PM MST up reply actions
And then Phoenix would rightfully decline
Hickson+1st have to be in the deal.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Anybody hear about the Mavs deal that just happened?
it’s this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzo5rfv
Eff. That’s a scary team right there. (The Mavs)
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
Fantastic trade for Dallas. Wow.
I wish we knew what it felt like to win a trade for once.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Lol Look what expiring contracts can buy you
That is crazy to think of what we could have gotten for Shaq’s expiring if we would have waited a bit longer.
This is also one of those scenarios that the Suns could have been involved in with Amare, this is a complete salary dump on Washington’s part. The Suns could just have easily done this trade with Washington, which should give hope to the Amare situation. The JJ Hickson trade is all pure speculation because Kerr is friends with Ferry I wouldn’t look too far into it, I bet Kerr has something up his sleeve and we will be very impressed with the deal he comes up with.
How so?
He pulled the trigger on Shaq which was a bold and genious move, it didn’t work out but we ripped Miami off. He got JRich which was also a great deal considering how Boris sucked.
I’m not totally sure what you are unhappy with, or what there is to be unhappy with? The Suns are a good team that could win a series against anyone in the West besides LA. So I’m confused why are you so critical?
Trading for Shaq, a poor defender, with one of our best defenders is not genius
JRich is as streaky as Boris and we miss Bell’s defence at the back court.
Can you honestly tell me that Kerr’s trade improve our team’s performance, or cause it to slide even more quickly? Before the Shaq trade, we were the first in the west. After the trade we were the 7th or 8th seed.
And can you tell me whether each of his trade made us better on defence? Or make us even more of a glass cannon.
Kerr deserves a F for the way he screwed up this team that I love!
You are way off to think that team with Marion was ever going to win a championship, that was a team built for the regular season.
There are only so many times you can fail without making changes, we tried it for 3 years man and couldn’t get past SA. So if your proposition was to pay Marion a Max contract (which is what he was after) just to loose to the Spurs in the playoffs you probably would argue this point. But bottom line Shaq was a 4 time champion, and a big man who can be a presence in the lane and on the glass, it didn’t work out because of our system,Shaq is probably the greatest big man of all time and probably will win a 5th championship this year.
I can’t fault Kerr for trying something huge, that was a bold move and one that probably would have panned out but Phoenix didn’t want to change their system.
Bell was falling off in the back court, he was in his early 30’s man he couldn’t keep up with Kobe anymore and Boris was a great 6th or 7th man but to pay that kind of money to a 6th or 7th guy is just crazy. To be honest you are arguing for a Boris Diaw who never brought his A game and made 15-20% of the Suns payroll how would you justify paying him that much?
JRich is streaky because his touches are inconsistent there have been plenty of times where he’s been in the block or streaking to the rim etc.. and hasn’t gotten a pass. Granted I think he isn’t working out great for the Suns either, but he plays his butt off every night - more than I can say for Boris!!!! Additionally his inconsistency is more of a result of our system than anything, we have made him a pure shooter, just like Frye so of course he will be streaky.
We aren’t the terrible team you make us out to be, we are sitting at the 5 spot I think in the West and just had a huge streak of road wins. Kerr shouldn’t be to blame he has done everything he can to get us to the promise land, also how could you argue with his draft choices thus far?? Those are 3 potential all stars.
Our team with Marion almost beat Spurs the season before if Stern did not
suspend Diaw and Amare. We would have won that year because the Cavs weren’t that good. The Suns team deserve one more chance.
The Shaq trade was a mid-season panic trade following the Gasol trade. Nothing more.
I simply cannot agree with you that Kerr’s trades and preferences for coaching styles made our team better simply based on the drop-off in regular seasons wins and play off track record after Kerr took over and made those trades.
Shopping Spree isn't sure thing.
If Phoenix gives away Amare and Jason Richardson, it is true that we would have major cap space. The issue is free agency isn’t a sure thing. What if different teams that have alot of cap space pick up the players that would be good, such as New York picking up one of them. There are other teams that have cap space and are at the bottom of the league that would love to sign the elite free agency players. It isn’t like we’re just going to pick up all of them and have an all-star team.
So you could go conservative and not make any trades, but there is no championship team that we have right now. Or you could go risky and risk the chance of signing one or even none of the elite free agents. If we want to win a championship we’re going to have to risk the free agency.
My vote goes to the shopping spree.
Rebel Rock
give it up for da rebel fan
whatup! i am a unlv alum…..sucks we lost to new mexico right after beating BYU and now sandiego!! so much for being ranked
Looks like we're close to Cleveland.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/cavaliers_dominating_trade_rum.html
• Right now, multiple sources have said, the Cavs are still working hard to assemble three-team trades. They have been in direct talks with the Phoenix Suns about Amare Stoudemire, the Indiana Pacers about Troy Murphy and the Washington Wizards about Antawn Jamison.
But they also are involving the Houston Rockets, Utah Jazz and Philadelphia 76ers in trying to set things up. In recent weeks the Cavs have also had expanded talks with the Chicago Bulls about making them a partner. If that seems like a wide net, it is supposed to be.
There’s often such expansive talks at this time as teams attempt to satisfy numerous needs with bigger deals. Usually, though, if anything gets done it is just between two teams. General Manager Danny Ferry did pull off a three-team deal at the deadline two years ago, however.
• Sources have indicated the Cavs have gotten “pretty far down the tracks” in talking to the Suns about Stoudemire. It has even gotten to the point that the sides have discussed small details like payment schedules and salary reimbursement options. At this time of year, because many contracts are pro-rated differently, there are such things to
work out in a trade.
Also, a source said that James has signed off on trading for Stoudemire. The two spent time talking during the All-Star practice session Saturday morning. When asked about the Cavs rumors, Stoudemire responded with a “no comment.”
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
That is too funny
That they have to get Jamse’s signature for bringing players in any deal. As much of a talent I think Lebron is I think their front office has a better picture of talent in the NBA than does Lebron.
Ｈｏｗ ｍａｎｙ ＦＡｓ ｗｉｌｌ ｂｅ ｐｅｒｓｕａｄｅｄ ｔｏ ｃｏｍｅ ｔｏ Ｐｈｏｅｎｉｘ？
Ｂｅａｒ ｉｎ ｍｉｎｄ ｔｈｅ ｆｏｌｌｏｗｉｎｇ ｉｓｓｕｅｓ：
Ｉｎｅｘｐｅｒｉｅｎｃｅｄ Ｃｏａｃｈ．
Ａｇｅｉｎｇ ｖｅｔｓ．
Ｕｎｐｏｌｉｓｈｅｄ ｒｏｏｋｉｅｓ．
Ｓｔｕｐｉｄ ｍａｎａｇｅｍｅｎｔ．
Ｆｉｃｋｌｅ ｆａｎｓ．
This is absolutely atrocious.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913305
Sources: Hickson, Ilgauskas to Suns
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By Chris Broussard
ESPN The Magaazine
Archive
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.
Stoudemire
The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league’s most dominant big man.
While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.
The ball is in Phoenix’s court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas’s $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire.
Cleveland believes the addition of Stoudemire would all but seal LeBron James’ re-signing with the team when he becomes a free agent this summer. The Cavaliers are also prepared to sign Stoudemire, who has one year and $17 million remaining on his contract, to a long-term contract extension once the season ends.
The Suns will likely waive Ilgauskas, which would allow him to be re-signed by Cleveland after 30 days.
Sarver is an effing moron. If we trade Amare to Cleveland without dumping Jason, then what the frack was the point of any of this? I will be so, so ticked off. Kerr’s handcuffed by Sarver’s mandate to save as much money as possible.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
+1
I cannot fathom how the Suns can justify this. Provided this would be the trade I will verbally abuse anyone that refers to Kerr as “smart”
http://seasonsofdiscontent.com/
by Scott Howard on Feb 14, 2010 2:14 AM MST up reply actions
the only reason i would consider this is if we could get rid of a bad contract.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 15, 2010 9:20 AM MST up reply actions
If the Miami deal is actually on the table....
And they were to take this one instead, Kerr and Sarver should be repeatedly beaten with a sack of oranges.
That is all…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Beaseley, QRich's expirings and 2 first round picks
And Q Rick knows our system.
Sorry I mean I hope we can get 2 picks from Ｍｉａｍｉ...
Ａｔ ｌｅａｓｔ １ ｆｉｒｓｔ ｒｏｕｎｄ ａｎｄ １ ｓｅｃｏｎｄ ｒｏｕｎｄ．
Is Sarver pushing for the Cavs' trade?
Most believe Sarver, who has had financial turmoil, is driving the Cavaliers’ scenario because a buyout of Ilgauskas’ $11.5 million expiring contract could get the Suns under the luxury-tax threshold.
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