Making Sense Of All The Amare Stoudemire Trade Rumors and Extension Talks
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 12:19 PM MST
in Phoenix Suns Commentary
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Are you confused yet? Who can blame you with all the trade talk flying around the Suns these day. Here's our attempt to bring some clarity to your life, which should make you a happier person, more productive at your work, and a better lover too on this Valentine's Day. You are very welcome.
1. The Sitch
Your best resources to really get your head around the basics of the Amare situation is to read this and check out this flow chart. Here's the reader's digest version:
Amare's contract is coming to an end which gives him the power to either stay one more year or leave to explore free agency. He can pick up the final year of his contract or he can opt out. I've made the case that it would be silly for him not to opt out and I am standing by that opinion.
For the Suns to prevent this, they have to agree to either an extension that would add up to three years to his deal or they can agree that he will opt out and then re-sign a new deal for up to 6 years.
If the Suns and Amare don't agree on a deal that keeps him in Phoenix, then the ball is in his court. He can decide by June 30th to opt out and test free agency or he can decide to stay his final year in Phoenix for $17m.
If the Suns don't come to agreement with him and don't trade him, then there's a big risk of Amare walking and the Suns getting nothing but about $7m under the cap to use on a free agent. That's not enough to reload the team and next year the Suns would be facing a dismal season.
2. Extension Talks
Extending Amare is priority number one. Y! Sports reports that the Suns made an initial offer which was rejected by Amare and, while talks appear to continue, there are no indications that the two sides are close to a deal. The details of the offers and counter offers aren't known other than rumors from KTAR radio that the Suns offer was around $12/yr for 3 yrs while Amare still seems to be looking for a max deal or perhaps a deal similar to Pau Gasol's $19m/yr for three years.
Any extension would be begin after the 2010/11 season so putting together the information, we are looking at a Suns offer that would net Amare $53m over the next four seasons and Amare looking for $74m over that time frame. Can the two sides split the $21m difference and come to agreement? We'll see. All this trade talk from the Suns only strengthens their negotiation position with Amare by letting him know that they do have other options and don't have to simply accept his demands.
At some point when this is all over, we will probably learn what the Suns actually offered and what Amare actually asked for. Until then, we just wait on the sidelines and assume that the two sides are talking and will continue to talk until a decision is made.
3. Trade Options
Miami
Miami has reportedly been hot on Amare's trail and earlier in the week was said to be offering anyone except Wade. Now the Heat owner has specifically denied that in the Miami Herald, saying that Beasley is not on the table, "We've never put him out there,'' Arison said as he watched the East team practice for Sunday's All-Star Game. "I know I've read about him being put out there. I can tell you this: We have not put him out there. The media has. We like Michael and see him as a part of our core going forward.''
Since the Suns were said to not be all that interested in Beasley anyway, taking him off the table has to put the Heat out of the running. Without Michael, all the Heat have to offer is expiring contracts and a couple of mid-first round draft picks. That might be enough to land a guy with multiple years left on his contract from a team looking to dump salary (Philly or Washington), but it should not be enough to get Amare.
The only way a deal with the Heat works for the Suns is if they take Jason Richardson's $14m contract which has one year left. It would be insane for the Heat to do this however, as Jason is a horrible fit on the floor with Wade and they would use up too much of their cap space in getting him.
Cleveland
Talks between the Cavs and the Suns have obviously been escalating rapidly over the weekend with old buddies Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry meeting along with their respective owners. According to the latest from Brian Windhorst of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, talks have advanced to the point of discussing nitty gritty details such as salary pro-rate schedules.
Windhorst reports that King James has signed off on playing with Amare but he's also approved a deal that would bring Antawn Jamison to the Cavs.
The offer from the Cavs appears to be J.J. Hickson and Big Z's expiring contract and perhaps the Cavs late first-round pick. The Suns, however, according to multiple reports including this one in the Morning Journal from Bob Finnan, want the Cavs to also take on Jason Richardson's contract. As we detailed yesterday, such a deal would give the Suns a young power forward prospect and about $19m in cap space and $34m under the luxury tax to reload this summer.
The benefit to the Suns is obvious. They would have the opportunity to sign multiple free-agents or even go after one of the big names, if possible. They could even conceivably trade cap space and salary relief to a team like Sacramento or Minnesota in exchange for a top pick in the 2010 draft.
The Cavs seem to be discussing what kind of impact Amare (and Jason?) would have on their team going into the playoffs. Remember, the Suns were in 1st place in their conference when they traded for Shaq because they thought they needed something to get "over the hump". That didn't work out so well.
The Cavs would be taking a huge gamble to make this move now but in their case the gamble isn't just about this season, it's about keeping LeBron in Ohio which is worth far more than a Finals appearance this spring.
Philadelphia
We haven't heard much about this deal in the last few days, but the latest reports are that the Suns offered Amare and Richardson for Iguodala and Dalembert or perhaps Amare for Iguodala and young power forward Marreese Speights.
The 76ers appear to be mulling these offers and trying to decide if they want Amare.
4. What Does it all Mean?
I've believed for awhile now that the best option for Phoenix would be to keep Amare but only if the contract is "reasonable". $19m/yr is too much for Amare. $12m/yr would be a great deal for the Suns. $15m/yr seems about fair to me. That would guarantee Amare $62m over the next four years. Perhaps he can do better than that on the open market, or maybe not. He needs to make that decision and fast.
If an agreement can't be reached then Amare opting in for his final year is a great outcome for the Suns. The team stays together for one more season (which seem to be what the players want) at a total payroll that is below the luxury tax and then goes into 2011 with a ton of cap space as Amare and Richardson's contracts expire. That's a fine option for me but it is completely dependent on Amare making a clear statement to the team that he will do that. So far, he's been wishy-washy, which is scary because if he does opt out and a trade isn't made this week, then the Suns get nothing.
Getting nothing in return for Amare is the standard by which we have to judge any trade. We can't get caught up in the discussion about a deal not being "worth" Amare. If a trade for "lesser value" happens then Amare is as much to blame for that as anyone.
He can either agree to a reasonable extension or opt in for the final year of his contract. If he's not willing to do either, then any trade the Suns make must not be compared against Amare's own value but against the prospect of getting nothing.
The best trade option is to move Jason Richardson along with Amare so the Suns can start rebuilding immediately, while Nash is still playing at such a high level.
If no one will take Jason, then the Suns will have to decide on the best package of young players and draft picks and that means either J.J. Hickson or perhaps the Nets are still in the mix with all their young players and better draft pick options. Worst case is sending Amare to Miami in return for Haslem's expiring contract and hopefully a 2010 and 2012 first round pick.
As bad as those deals sound, they are better than letting Amare walk for nothing.
We are at the point in the season where we are beyond any crazy idea that the Suns can make some kind of run in the playoffs with this team. The players and some fans might still want to believe that, but the Suns have not played well enough to risk the future of the franchise on the hope that a very average team will somehow get much better as the year winds down.
- Extension
- Amare opts in
- Or best trade possible which means including Jason Richardson's contract if possible and the best combination of picks and young talent if not
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Ugh
I really hope this Cavs trade talk is either a smokescreen to start a bidding war, or the Cavs are taking on JRich too.
I actually never thought of the possibility of the Suns using cap space to either trade for a pick or do a lop-sided trade in the offseason. I’m sure there will be a handful of teams looking to unload one of their contracts to a team that has the cap to absorb it without giving back salary. Might be a really great way to get some talent steals from a team without having to overpay someone in free agency.
Can someone explain to me...
How Hickson for Amar’e makes any sense at all? That’s what a trade of JJ and Big Z ammounts to. JJ and the last pick in round 1.
Why not just keep Amar’e, if he walks, take the close to 10 million in salary cap space he creates (especially if Frye opts out)? That is more than we’d have if we take on Hickson, who probably isn’t going to be a star anyway.
If we can’t get better right now, then we are better off NOT trading Amar’e, but doing a Jrich for Big Z straight up. That would give us max cap room next year if Amar’e opts out, and Barbosa, Dragic, Hill, Dudley and Nash is an adequate guard rotation.
IMHO, if the goal is cap space, that’s simply a much better trade.
assuming he walks, you’d rather have approximately $10 mil in cap space than $8.5 mil and a late 1st rd pick?
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 5:50 PM MST up reply actions
If Amar'e Opts out..
We can re-sign him for $10 mil. No one else will offer him that, I guarantee it.
Hickson is crap, a 30th pick will be crap. $8.5 million is not as good as 10 (obviously) so, again, it is a crap trade.
I’d rather trade JRich straight up for Big Z, Eric Dampier etc, and then if Amar’e opts out, we’d have $20 million in cap space. Now THAT is some serious space.
He can get 14-17 mil - I think teams are realising that they need Plan B if
Lebron, Bosh and Wade resigns.
We can re-sign him for $10 mil. No one else will offer him that, I guarantee it.
How much you want to back up that guarantee with?
by jemagee on Feb 15, 2010 9:26 PM MST up reply actions
Name a team who will Amar'e more than $10 million per...
Seriously, name one!
If The Suns can’t build around Amar’e, who can? The Nets? The Knicks? Miami maybe? Who? Who, and with what cap space?
You need a team that has over $10 million to spend on a “second best” player. Who does that describe?
A Miami team that can give Amar’e much more than $10 mil needs to pull of some major trades. Wade, Beasley, Amar’e is a pretty short roster!
That's nuts
Amare will get $15m + from many teams. Miami. Nets, Pistons, Bucks…
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 16, 2010 1:20 PM MST up reply actions
Building upon the ESPN report about Cleveland being close, supposed ‘insider’ for sixers over at realgm.com
so the deal with us and the 3 way is..we want in…will take back jrich,danny green,wally or z, andmaybe delonte west but want hickson too and phoenix wants to keep hickson…so unless we find something suitable to replace hickson in the deal……we may not be involved.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 12:36 PM MST reply actions
Go to the realgm.com sixers board and read the last few pages of the ‘sixerfan1976’ thread.
I’m not allowed on the site any more so i use proxify.com to get there
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
I went and got myself ip banned a long time ago, the moronic high school quotient is high on realgm and in an attempt to adjust their idiocy one of the uptight moderators banned me.
Perceived stupidity is one of my pet peeves and I get banned a lot.
I don’t care – I just do
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:05 PM MST up reply actions
I agree with that, what a joke of a website though to ban someone for arguing seems more like a socialist act if you ask me. Too bad this isn’t the 70’s you could have probably got that moderator thrown in prison for being a communist.
so⋅cial⋅ism /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-shuh-liz-uhm]
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
PSN ID- presbot
So how would that 3 ways play out?
Would the Suns get Iguodala?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 12:39 PM MST up reply actions
I just posted what he wrote – don’t know more
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:02 PM MST up reply actions
I hope we're not the ones taking on Dalembert
Sounds like the problem with the 3 way is that if we deal with Cleveland, we want Hickson, but PHI wants a young player in return too(like Hickson).
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Yes, and as it looks so far, Speights is a nice bench player, but has no interest in passing or playing defense….so he’s a nice offensive threat, but he’s half a player
Plus, when trying to build a winning team, assets matter more than fit right away, hickson is an additional asset
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 5:46 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks Stan
You would think if the Suns and Amare split the difference and go 3 years at 45-48M and add on the 17M you would have a package of 4 years say 64M. I think that is a fair deal. Add on Sterns state of union yesterday and the league losing 400M ( not a surprise), I think salary structure is going to be tad different. If the Suns offer this type of deal, and Amare says no, so be it. Make a deal and get on with it.
Cavs would have to include there No. 1 pick even though it will be in the 30’s. This way the Suns get two usable players. Hickson could surprise a lot of people. He will get looks at the basket playing with Nash he never would of dreamed of.
I think there is a disconnection between what Amare is worth and what the Suns are willing to pay for him
I don’t see how anyone can say a 15 million deal seems like a fair price to pay him. There is a disconnection about his worth in terms of what the Suns offer him because its all they can afford and what he is truly worth for his production. If the Suns can only afford 15 million a year that doesn’t mean Amare is worth only 15 million a year, so to say a “fair” salary of 15 million isn’t “fair” at all it is just a biased view as a Suns fan.
If Pau got 19 million a year at age 31-34 why cant Amare get 19 million from age 27-30?
I wouldn’t like to pay him 19 for his services but that would be a “fair” price to pay him.
"Fair" and "Worth" is subjective
of course…to each his own (opinion)
But the Suns clearly can afford to pay Amare that kind of money if they want to. If he stays next year and no trades are made the Suns would be at around $64m with basically the same team they have this year. They can afford that.
Then when the extension kicks in for the 2011/12 season JRich would be off the books and there wouldn’t be any problem paying Amare that $19m. The question is do you want to lock up $19m on Amare or do you want to try and use that cap space to get two less expensive players or some other combination of talent and picks.
To me, I’ve see enough to think that locking up $19m on Amare is too much b/c you be good enough to be mediocre so no high lottery picks and not enough money to bring in another really good player to go with him.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions
Worth is NOT subjective- I think if there is ever a question of what something is worth EBAY solves that problem, in economics 101 where supply=demand that in turn = price. If Amare were a completely non restricted free agent you could see the economic forces at work and would see his true value, but since that is not going to happen we may never know.
Fair- on the other hand is very subjective- As a Suns fan your “fairness” in Amare’s salary is going to be way off from other teams, I know Chicago fans love Amare so much they’d be willing to lock him up for a long term expensive deal. And players with his production on 3rd contracts get paid more than 15. So I’m not sure if the word fair should be used here. Perhaps inject “in the best interest of the Suns Franchise” that would work better here, because I do agree with you that locking him up at that price would leave us in a bind in a couple years when Nash is gone.
very true SSOHOWARD. great use of econ.
fair will always be subjective and it is often driven by bias (which is why it will always be subjective).
Worth and value are decided by the market as you say. worth is not just decided by letting a player become a non restricted FA. worth can also be decided through trades. a trade shows oftentimes how much a player is worth although much less in basketball with all the salary cap ballet, and more so in other sports. but at the same time, trading can show value in basketball.
Worth
that’s a very simplistic view of things…Obviously you can say in relative terms that if you are willing to pay more than me for something that it’s worth is the highest price. And that’s true from the proposition of the seller.
But buyers have many different motivations and information. Just because one team is willing to pay more (too much in many cases in league history) that doesn’t establish value.
Take Rashard Lewis. Just because the Magic paid that much for him doesn’t mean he was worth it. It just means that’s the deal they made
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 1:04 PM MST up reply actions
I think the word “worth” here we are debating is being used more as a theoretical comparison. Where as I am arguing it from an analytical standpoint, if Rashard can get 20+ a year that is his worth. You may not agree that something is worth what it is but that doesn’t take away from that fact. I don’t think an Italian Sports Car is worth 300k but there is a slew of people who do, so that is why it Blue Books for 300k and is “worth” 300k.
Econ 101 continued: In a perfect business world a company can successfully price discriminate meaning they can charge people different prices for a good for what each person’s individual “worth” of the good is. You’ve probably seen this done at movie theaters, where students/senior citizens get a reduced ticket price, which is a more reflective price of what these two groups put on a movie’s “worth”
Exactly - it is all subjective
I don’t think Amare is worth $19m per year in large part b/c of the opportunity costs (I took econ too as part of my MBA that I got 10 yrs ago) and you do.
I don’t care if Miami or some other team gives him that much. That won’t convince me they set the price right. I will just think they overpaid and only time will prove who’s right.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 1:24 PM MST up reply actions
I don’t want to pay him 19 million man I’d rather see him go, the only way I’d give him a 19 million a year contract is if he drops his player option and its 19 from here on out. But since we don’t want to pay him that much doesn’t mean he isn’t “worth” that much.
Agreed.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
What is fair and what is subjective?
IAbout a week ago, I said the Suns were probably gonna offer about 3 yrs for 37 million or so…Everybody said that would be an insult to Amare…Now evidence opoints to the fact that was probably close to their initial offer…Seems to me, that the Suns management have kinda written another chapter sans Amare and are just trying going torough the motions for an extension , when in all probability they knew they weren’t gonna sign him.
Seth, tell me I see this wrong…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
too soon to say
that might have been their initial offer but we don’t know what their final offer was..
We have to withhold judgment until this all plays out – I’ve been saying that for weeks
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:12 PM MST up reply actions
also, i have noticed that amare isn’t the rebounder he was 3-4 seasons ago and isn’t a great defensive player anymore. I don’t know if it is a decline that can be explained or that the season right now is somewhat of an aberrations. he has seen a decline in his rebounding, and defensive play.
when pau was traded to the lakers, he was of a similar age as amare (and he is only 29 now, not 31-34) is right now. he wasn’t nearly as good of an offensive player but was much better defensively. honestly, looking at the 2, I dislike the lakers and I do like amare, but when pau got that deal, he was probably a better player.
Amare has never been a rebounding force or defensive ace...
When the team won 60+ a year, nobody cared…Now that the team has struggled the past few years, Now it becomes an issues. Fact is Amare should at least get 10-12 boards a game and be at least serviceable defensively based just off his athletic ability alone…,
As far as being a better player…Pau is probably just as bad defensively if not a better rebounder than Amare…He just happens to play on a team where his role is defined preminitely behind Kobe and he does what they need him to. IT doesn’t hurt that the Lakers have two other nice bigs in Odom and Andrew Bynum playing alongside him…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Did you see Pau defend Howard in the finals last year
he didn’t get a dunk in 2 games, that had only happened like 3 times in his whiole career before that. Don’t tell me Pau doesn’t have some defensive skill.
Don't get a man-crush on Pau's D just yet....
A lot of that had to do with the Lakers double and triple team Howardin the post and daring Lewis, Turkoglu and the other Majic perimetr players to beat them from outside…The gambit worked and that’s why the Lake show is the champions…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Pau got that deal from the Lakers
they can pay a hell of a lot more because they are in one of the biggest markets in the NBA, have the most marketable worldwide sports star this side of tiger woods and david beckham to sell merchandise, and they can charge astronomical seat prices. They also just won the championship with a core that can compete for years. You can bet 100% that if we’d won the championship last year Amar’e wouldv’e got that 60mil deal about 8 seconds after negotiations began. As it is, paying that much for one player on a team that will be rebuilding in a maximum of 2 years is crazy, and thats before debating whether STAT is actually worth that amount.
ＤａｖｅＪＤ －Ｌａｋｅｒｓ ｐａｉｄ Ｇａｓｏｌ ｂｅｃｏｓ ｔｈｅｙ ｗａｎｔ ｔｏ ｗｉｎ
Ｓｕｎｓ ｏｎｌｙ ｗａｎｔ ｔｏ ｃｕｔ ｃｏｓｔｓ ｔｈｅｓｅ ｄａｙｓ．．．
Amare is worth at least 15-16 million per
I know I will get disagreement, but I feel he would at least get that on the open market …locket threat for 2011 or not…
How many 6’10" big men out there with good hands, great 15-20 ft jumper, finish with authority consistently and score 30 points in his sleep…Not many outside of Chris Bosh. I wish the Suns will dig deep and get it done…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Two points for Seth;
1) With Amare the Suns are better than mediocre — this team is really a 3 or 4 seed if they keep Amare. I think that decision would energize the franchise and we would see a revitalized team in the second half of the season.
2) If they trade him to create cap space what “two less expensive players” would you expect to sign/get that would make a greater difference than Amare, or be at least as valuable to the team as he is?
I just don’t see the logic in all this. If the idea is to WIN and not just for Sarver to make money (ironically, winning would ultimately put more money in Sarver’s pocket) then keeping Amare and potentially paying him that $19 mil is definitely the way to go. There just aren’t realistic options out there that would make us better than we are with Amare on the roster.
Good points
You’ve got to think about all the various inlets for revenue as well.
I think the Suns fans are spoiled in that they have had a roster with 2-3 all stars for the last 5 years where no other teams really have been fortunate enough to have had that. That alone is a great revenue generator in paraphernalia, national televised games, hordes of cash from playoff games. This team without these great stars is going to be in a more difficult spot than just the W/L column, and may not even save money in the big picture even if they cut their roster salaries.
Ok
1) 3 or 4 seed is a stretch at best. The team has a sub .500 record since Dec 1 (17-19). They’ve not proved in over 2/3 ’s of the season that they can play consistent defense.
They are ranked 29th in defensive efficiency which is the worst it’s been in the Nash era. They had a nice run but it was against the Kings, a slumping Mavs team, the Rockets who aren’t that good, and the Hornets and Nuggets w/o their best players. It was a nice run but with 4 days off they couldn’t even both to show up (their words not mine) against the depleted Blazers. To think that somehow this team will suddenly be better than they’ve been is putting a lot of faith into things.
They are probably at best a 6th seed and if lucky can win one round.
2) Winning at basketball isn’t about having the most talented player (unless it’s LeBron, Duncan or Kobe). It’s about the best mix of players. I think there are a lot of options that will be available this summer that can be put together to make this team better than it is now.
This isn’t about wanting to spend money or not wanting to win. This is about the best way to get there and personally, I’ve seen enough from Amare to convince me that if the Suns over spend on him they will be relegated to mediocrity for quite some time. They would be too good to rebuild through the draft and not good enough to really compete.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 1:18 PM MST up reply actions
So you don’t think Lopez, Clark, and Dragic will pan out? They are very young, but they fill in all the holes from Amare and Nash’s game. I’m not saying this is the best direction but if we had another year of those 3 players along side Nash and Amare don’t you think we could get a top 4 spot?
Ｏｕｒ ｙｏｕｎｇ ｔａｌｅｎｔｓ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ｂｅ ｃｏｍｐａｒｅｄ ｔｏ ｔｈｅ ｔｏｐ ｙｏｕｎｇ ｔａｌｅｎｔｓ ｏｎ
ｏｔｈｅｒ ｔｅａｍｓ， ａｎｄ ｗｈｏ ａｒｅ ｄｒｉｖｉｎｇ ｔｈｅｉｒ ｔｅａｍｓ ｔｏ ｗｉｎｓ．
Ｏｕｒ ｙｏｕｎｇｓｔｅｒｓ ａｒｅ ｓｔｉｌｌ ｓｔｏｐ－ｇａｐ ｏｒ ｐｌｕｇ－ａ－ｈｏｌｅ ｒｏｌｅ ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ．
Ｗｅ ａｒｅ ｓｔｉｌｌ ｇｏｉｎｇ ｗｉｔｈ ａ ｓｔａｒｓ ａｎｄ ｓｃｒｕｂｓ ｍｉｎｄｓｅｔ ｗｈｅｎ ｉｔ ｃｏｍｅｓ ｔｏ ｔｈｅ Ｓｕｎｓ．
Well Seth, I disagree...
You apparently don’t think they’re good enough to get a 3 or 4 seed and I do. This team has been underachieving lately. That is why I think we’re a 3 or 4 seed when keeping Amare. Are there problems? Yes. You mentioned defense, and yes that is an issue. But defense is primarily about effort. I think that falls on Gentry. If he figures out how to motivate these guys to get up for the mediocre teams (like a depleted Blazers squad) then there is no reason we can’t be a 3 or 4 seed, in fact, I expect it. We have the talent and the experience and have shown we are capable of beating good teams.We simply need to bring consistent effort.
Also, you say that “winning at basketball isn’t about having the most talented player”, and I would agree if you are not talking about superstars. But you also failed to answer my question, which was which “two less expensive players” would you add to compensate or make up for the loss of Amare? So much of our offense is based on Amare I think the loss of him would seriously cripple the team. Hickson is not Amare. I’m sorry, he’s just not. Does he have potential? From what I’ve seen, yes. But let’s not kid ourselves here.
The best chance for this team to win is now — while Nash still has a couple of good years in his tank. I think this season and next , and beyond that is a gamble. If we trade Amare now we might as well trade Nash too. Just blow the whole thing up because you’d basically be saying you have given up on winning in the present and for the near future. Is that what you want??? I don’t think it is what most Suns fans want.
You can't blame the lack of defense on Gentry
We just don’t have the players to play good defense consistently, no matter how much emphasis is placed on it.
Disagree Dave...
That loss to Portland last Wed. was about a lack of effort. That falls on the coach as much as on anyone else. While it is true that the coach can’t get out there on the court, HE is the one responsible for the level of intensity and the focus that his team brings or does not bring to the court. Over the course of a long 82 game season it is understood that it can’t be there every night. But it has been far too frequent an occurence for the Suns not too show up emotionally. That, in my mind falls on the coach.
While it is true that Nash will never be a great defensive player there is nothing preventing this team from playing very good team defense. We have done it in stretches and it just needs to be more consistent.
I dunno JD I put blame on Gentry
Its not that he doesn’t put emphasis on playing defense its that I dont think he knows how to coach it. I mean his view of changing things up is playing a soft zone. I think he is very smart offensively but he has been working under the D-Antoni era for so long that I think defense is an afterthought. I laughed one time he was talking about how the Suns were going to show the other team differeent looks on the defensive end, and it translated into throwing it into a 2/3 zone ever other play. I’m like get real man, I think these NBA players know how to play out of a 2/3 zone.
Just because no great defensive players doens't mean no great defense...
I just think that the Suns need a coach that can get the most out of them offensively and defensively. Find out what works and what dcoen’t with this group of players…
Gentry tries, but something is lacking in that he can’t get a group of professionsalls to show up “mentally” every game…
Any ideas…?
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I think his whole argument is for the Portland theory of rebuilding
Tank for a ton of years and accumulate cheap talent on cheap contracts and I like that option but it is not the only way to rebuild. There are other ways to rebuild other than the draft. The only team that has been successful I’ve seen over the last number of years doing that is San Antonio— although other than Duncan their very good players have come from the 2nd round.
Building for a championship while not sucking along the way is very possible and I have full confidence in the Suns training staff / coaches to make some of these younger guys great. I also think Kerr has a great eye for young talent which is possibly his biggest strength.
I do not want to pay Amare 19 million a year, but if we had -- meaning there is nothing else out there even in the ballpark of quality trades then I would have no problem signing him again and we can take our chances with basically the future of this franchise in Lopez.—— and roll those dice baby
Jack
I don’t think you can call sub .500 for two thirds of the season “lately”. It is who they are.
As for better options on how to spend $19m under the cap and $34m under the lux tax? There are so many options when you have that kind of flexibility that I am not even willing to speculate. It would depend on what happens in the playoffs, who opts out, etc.
My personal first priority would be to try and get a top 5 draft pick. But until the lottery is over it is impossible to see exactly how to do that. We already know it’s possible. The Wiz traded the 5th pick last year. It happens all the time.
I might also give consideration to Bosh or Boozer. Would either of those guys come to Phx to play with Nash for $12 – $15m per year? I would look hard at 2nd tier FA’s like David Lee and Rudy Guy. I would look at the Magic who have Gortat and Bass and might be willing to move one of those guys.
I would look at Louis Scola who’s a RFA or Anthony Marrow who’s an RFA. I would look at old vets like Camby or even Kurt Thomas who could be had on the cheap. Maybe Travis Outlaw. Maybe Manu Freakin Ginobili.
With that kind of space and a sold core you could put a damn good team together in a hurry.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:10 PM MST up reply actions
Totally agree
But this all predicates on if we can move JRich to free up a bit more room too. If thats not possible then it changes what we should do with Amare.
yup
it’s more than “a bit more” :)
If we can’t get someone to take Jason and all we get back is Hickson than I would be disappointed for sure but still would have to hear more about what offers were made/rejected before placing blame on team vs Amare.
Hickson > nothing
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:17 PM MST up reply actions
I’m sure that is the #1 factor driving this whole thing, if we cant get rid of JRich I wouldn’t be suprised if Kerr resigned Amare for Gasol’s deal, might as well if we can’t play in the FA market anyway.
by SSOHOWARD on Feb 14, 2010 2:22 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Would be better than letting him walk, but still a little disappointting...
Hickson is decent, but I feel that there are better deals out there. than just Z and Hickson for Amare…Ferry would be thanking Kerr for the buddyf* for a few years if this occurred…
As a Suns fan, I think we can get more…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
what more?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:31 PM MST up reply actions
A draft pick would be nice or to take JRich off our hands
Z and Hickson is basically just a Hickson for Amare straight up as Z will get released to resigh with the Cavs…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
By the way, I never answered you about the Army service
I retired out of Ft McPherson, GA a couple years back. I am very familiar with where you son is going to AIT (Fort Gordon) It’s a nice place and would be a good duty assignment for him. If he can’t get their see if he can get fort Huachuca, AZ (South of Tuscon…). A lot of other places are nice as well. You just don’t want him getting sent to a division… Division life is tough on a young soldier…A lot of them get broken mentally from the work load and field duty.
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Ha
I spent half my time in a division and loved it…anyway, he’s in the AZ National Guard so unless he changes his mind and decides to go active he’ll be right back at home.
Best option is to moving JRich with Amare. But if that’s not possible, what’s left?
Miami has no young players and a mid-1st round pick (assuming their owner was telling the truth when he said Beasley wasn’t on the table).
I still like some of the young options from the Nets and maybe that’s a better deal than Hickson but not all that much better.
The Warriors deal from before isn’t on the table anymore and it wasn’t the Suns that killed it when it was.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:50 PM MST up reply actions
You know
we’ve not heard anything about Nets trades in a while. I am guessing we could get out pick of CDR, Courtney Lee or T Will plus the Mavs pick they own or a top 3 protected Nets pick perhaps.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 3:00 PM MST up reply actions
I remember reading somewhere
that the Nets were considering buying out CDR if he wasn’t traded because his attitude sucks.
When i first heard about potential nets trades i thought they were awful but i’m coming around to them. An iggy trade would concern me because of his contract, reports are the suns don’t want beasley and T-will and a pick in the teens is much better than hickson and the 30th pick.
Man I wish I had any insight on any of those players in NJ, just never seen any of them play. I know that Courtney Lee is going to be a complete stud so very soon so if he was involved with another player or a pick I’d be down with that as long as they take JRich.
I woudn't mind C. Lee or CDR...
But I think any trade with the Nets would have to net us Yianing Li to play PF….
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I tell you what, C Lee and Yi for Amare and JRich— sign me up. Yi is such an important piece to have on a team, think of the Yao effect—- TMac almost made the all star team because of the huge market Yao brings in.
Give Yi and success and I guarantee he will be just as big as Yao, think about that barganing chip we could use to attract free agents. Basically tell them they will be the most watched player on the planet if they play here.
Yi's Scouting Report
Scouting report: Yi owns the league’s most dubious birth certificate — though optimistically listed as turning 22 the opening week of the season, most believe he’s really 24 or 25. That’s important when projecting his future development, as it suggests he has much less upside than one might originally think.
Yi moves well for his size but appears to have trouble changing directions. He’s also soft and has a poor feel for the game as a result of years playing against inferior competition in China. His lack of muscle is a real problem against opposing post players, while on the perimeter he tends to pick up fouls stepping out to help against screens. However, his length is useful in challenging shooters.
Offensively, he’s a catch-and-shoot guy but doesn’t shoot well enough for it to be a real weapon. When he puts it on the floor his moves are unrefined and he struggles to finish anything that isn’t a dunk. An up-and-under move might be a particularly useful addition to his repertoire.
this is just retarded...
Yi is not a guy you want on this team… he is a less athletic, worse rebounding and defending 4 then Amare… plus Yi has the worst hands i’ve ever seen in the NBA
who cares if he makes the all start team because a billion china men are voting him in… making the all star team has become a joke lately anyways
i can’t believe some of the garbage that people say on here
Game or no game – check out CDR’s twitter feed – he’s kind of a whiny putz
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:12 PM MST up reply actions
Whiney yes...But so was Shawn Marion
We always need one to keep things interesting..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Twill and the unprotected pick and we should be all over the nets. I fear even with all that money, who are we going to get in free agency that will be that great? I like younger players that are cheaper on the way up.
we need to be the next OKC
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
Yeah i do
but i also understand that just because a player doesn’t amaze straight away, that doesn’t mean he’s going to be that way for his entire career.
that is true...
but it most cases players so pretty quickly what they are going to become…. the case is different for guys who come in at 19 but once a player is 23 or 24 you have a pretty good indication of what they will become… this is why guys that are college seniors when they come out usually don’t develop as much as younger guys do…
sure you always have your outliers but to blindly hope a player is going to just develop all of a sudden after showing little to no signs of it usually doesn’t happen
Different strokes for different folks, I guess..
Spent 13 years in division, 3ID , 4ID, 1AD, & 1CAV…Only one I liked was 1st CAV…AAIIIEEAAAHHHH!!!!!
By the way, what about the Bulls..? I don’t particularly care for the Terrible Tyrus but I believe they have a lot to offer a prspective trade partner…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
“The best chance for this team to win is now” jack frost
Win what? you have to be realistic, this team is not going to go anywhere as constructed.
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
To RGreyslak: I have a question for you....
How many teams in the league have both a better starting 5 AND a better bench than the Suns?
I bet you can’t name many. Certainly they could be counted on the fingers of one hand.
The talent is there. The consistent effort is not. A lack of talent can’t be helped without major upheavels to the roster in most cases. A lack of consistent effort and issues with strategy and game planning can be changed.
Because the Suns issues are primarily of the later sort they very much are capable of winning now. It might take a different coach, but they certainly are capable with this roster, and maybe a minor tweak or addition.
well if we’re going by record, 10 teams have a better starting 5 and bench combo than the suns, with a handful pretty close behind…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 5:56 PM MST up reply actions
I didn't say "who has a better record" SS...I said;
Who has a better starting five and a better bench. It is certainly not ten teams.
i guess it depends on how you look at it. if you break it down, perhaps not many teams have a better bench AND a better starting 5, but the fact is, there are probably around 10 teams better than us.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 10:15 PM MST up reply actions
theoretically, yes i believe we can beat any team in 7-game series.
1% chance to beat the lakers, cavs
15% chance to beat healthy celtics
20% chance to beat magic
25% chance to beat dallas
40% chance against denver
45% chance against san antonio
50% chance against atlanta, utah, healthy new orleans
these numbers are pretty subjective obviously, but if the suns make the playoffs, at best it’d be a coin flip for the first two rounds, followed by pretty small chances to make the Finals and then win.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 10:32 PM MST up reply actions
Ｇｅｔｔｉｎｇ ｏｕｒ ａｃｔ ｔｏｇｅｔｈｅｒ ｗｉｌｌ ｍｅａｎ ｗｅ ｎｅｅｄ ｇｏｏｄ ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ
Ｎｏｔ ｕｎｐｒｏｖｅｎ ｆｌａｓｈ ｉｎ ａ ｐａｎ ｙｏｕｎｇｓｔｅｒｓ ｗｈｏ ｍａｙ ｎｏｔ ｓｈｏｗ ｕｐ ａｌｌ ｔｈｅ ｔｉｍｅ．
Ｏｒ ａｇｅｄ ｖｅｔｓ．
Ｏｒ ｅｘｐｉｒｉｎｇｓ．．．
if getting our act together means making a trade to get better, then sure, those numbers will change, realistically though, i dont think there is a trade out there that moves us past all of those teams. say we keep amare and nash to make a run. what assets can we use to get better? richardson and barbosa dont exactly have the best contracts in light of a new cba. clark has potential, but i doubt we’d be able to get much for him right now. i have a hard time seeing any way the suns could leapfrog so many teams just by making a few moves at the deadline.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 10:39 PM MST up reply actions
Well SS...I think 10 is WAY off....
If we are playing the way we are capable of playing, and I understand that is a big if, we can compete with anyone. I think right now you could safely say there are 4 teams that are definitely better than us and maybe you could argue 5 or 6. Other than Cavs, Lakers, Magic, and Nuggets you’d have to argue and debate with me. Celtics I do not include, not just because we are 2-0 against them this season but because of Garnett’s health.
I’m not sure why you are comparing us to Eastern teams, who cares we don’t have to go through them.
So Lakers and Nuggets are better than us in the West is that what you are saying?? I think I can live with that argument sir even though we did destroy Denver in Denver who went on to destroy LA in LA.
you’re right. for the purposes of winning a championship, the number of eastern conference teams better than us doesn’t really matter.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 11:24 PM MST up reply actions
i can see that. 4 or 5 clearly better than us i agree with. i just think there a lot of teams that are about as good as us. there are the elite teams, and then from teams 6-15there;s not a whole lot that separates them. if you want to say we’re the 6th best team in the league, i wouldn’t call you crazy, but perhaps a bit optimistic :)
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 11:21 PM MST up reply actions
I don't think
this team is better than the Thunder or Grizzlies right now…Portland is a toss up only b/c they don’t have Oden and Pryz (but they would still have Roy and LMA).
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 15, 2010 8:50 AM MST up reply actions
You're joking right?
Once you get past Durant and Westbrook the Thunder lineup is pretty much a joke….Better than us? Not even close. They are overachieving right now and we are underachieving, as I stated above. If Nash thinks they’re more talented he is flipping crazy and needs to have his head examined.
Eh, I agree with Seth.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
+1
Grizz are talented bunch but I don’t see them succeeding as a team, plus Gay will be gone this offseason
ya thunder and grizzlies are a toss up to me. certainly they’re better positioned for next year and beyond. in a playoff series this year though. i’d give us the slight edge if only because we have experience. and because im a homer.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 15, 2010 9:09 AM MST up reply actions
I think we'd beat the Grizz this year but not OKC
we have no-one to stop Durant, Westbrook could seriously slow down Nash on D and amar’e would have to guard a SF in Green. Me no likey.
＋１ Ｊａｃｋ：Ｎａｓｈ ａｎｄ Ａｍａｒｅ ｃａｎ ｃｏｎｔｅｎｄ ｉｆ ｗｅ ｂｕｉｌｄ ａｒｏｕｎｄ ｔｈｅｍ
Ｂｌａｍｉｎｇ Ａｍａｒｅ ｆｏｒ ｔｈｅ ｐｏｏｒ ｆｏｒｔｕｎｅｓ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｔｅａｍ ｉｓ ｍｉｓｌｅａｄｉｎｇ ａｎｄ ｄｅｃｅｐｔｉｖｅ ｗｈｅｎ Ｎａｓｈ ａｎｄ ｔｈｅ ｍａｎａｇｅｍｅｎｔ ｈａｖｅ ａ ｍｕｃｈ ｂｉｇｇｅｒ ｓａｙ ｏｎ ｔｈｅ ｔｅａｍ ｍａｋｅ－ｕｐ．
Ｉｆ ｆａｎｓ ｆｅｅｌ ｔｈａｔ ｏｕｒ ｔｅａｍ ｃａｎ＇ｔ ｃｏｎｔｅｎｄ， ｔｈｅｎ ｔｒａｄｅ ｂｏｔｈ Ｎａｓｈ ａｎｄ Ａｍａｒｅ． Ｔｈｅ ｗａｙ ｔｈｅｙ ｐｌａｙ ａｒｅ ｄｉｒｅｃｔｌｙ ｒｅｓｐｏｎｓｉｂｌｅ ｆｏｒ ｏｕｒ ｔｅａｍ＇ｓｕｃｃｅｓｓ ｏｒ ｆａｉｌｕｒｅｓ！
Steve Kerr may come out smelling like a rose.
From what I am seeing the deals are only getting better. It looks like the ramping up of the Cleveland talks may have been jus t a ploy to everyone to up the ante. At least that is what I hope. If we could get iggy and hickson or speights for Amare and Jrich I could live with that. Especially if we get any type of draft pick.
by Suns Fan For Life on Feb 14, 2010 1:15 PM MST reply actions
I'll wait and see....
We haven’t come on the top end of a trade in a long while….Maybe this one mght be a trend changer…With the Suns’s luck, we can’t get too excited…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
1. sometimes i can’t tell if you guys are really suns fans
2. it’s funny how you guys come up with all these ideas like kerr reads this or something
3. trading amare is the end of a legacy.
4. trading amare and jrich is unfair for nash…expect him to want to leave when we get sh*tty players like hickson and big z.
exactly
Nash will be much happier if he gets to play with this team for two more months and then Amare walks and the Suns get nothing in return.
He will be thrilled about that next year.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 1:26 PM MST up reply actions
Easy, Seth....
Sarcasm does not become you…He was prodding you
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Letting Amar’e opt out and leave with the Suns getting nothing in return – how’s that going to make Nash feel.
It’s funny, certain players aren’t traded for on the court but because their contract expire, I wonder if people are NBA fans when they start worrying about how Big Z or Tracy McGrady will fit on their rosters…no one cares.
Big Z would be bought out as soon as the trade was finalized most likely
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:28 PM MST up reply actions
And why not buy him out
he helps the Cavs beat the Lakers and saves the Suns money going into the summer
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 1:30 PM MST up reply actions
That was the point, whether or not Big Z ‘fits’ with Nash is irrelevant – he’ll probably never play with him if this deal is consummated.
What matters is what Sarver spends the freed up money on – who can he lure to Phoenix (and it would be funny if it’s Joe Johnson) in the off season – or even IF he spends it.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 1:39 PM MST up reply actions
I wish we could use Big Z's expiring and flip him to another team for something good
And who knows, we could use Z as an actual productive player.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Yeah
The best trade option is to move Jason Richardson along with Amare so the Suns can start rebuilding immediately, while Nash is still playing at such a high level.
I don’t really understand this. If we’re trading Amare and Richardson to the Cavs for cap space, then we’re not even remotely a playoff team.
So, at that point, why not trade Nash as well? Of all of these players, he should have the least to do with our long term plans.
I mean, unless we sign Lebron, which we won’t, we’re not competitors next year either. So let’s trade Nash while he still has value.
Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.
by rosewood on Feb 14, 2010 1:43 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
You can make that case
But there’s the deal for Nash. This team right now is playing sub .500 ball for 2/3’s of the season so that’s not working and Nash talks all the time about this team not having the same level of talent as even the Thunder or Grizz let alone w/ Mavs, Nuggets or Lakers so he know’s it.
If Amare’s traded for Hickson then next year’s team is even worse than this year’s team.
But if Amare and JRich are traded than suddenly you have options. You have Nash and Hill along w/ mid-career guys Frye and LB. You have young role players in Hickson, Robin, Goran, Jared and Lou (if he returns).
So what are you missing from that roster that $19m to $34m can’t buy? You know the league as well as anyone. Look at the available free agents for 2010 and see what you can come up with.
I would think that’s the fastest way to make the Suns competitive again and not waste Nash’s remaining time.
Also consider the ability with all that cap space to trade for a top 5 draft pick from a team looking to dump salary. Washington. Minnesota. Sacramento. Who knows.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 1:59 PM MST up reply actions
Look
if you told me that the Suns could pull in:
Chris Bosh
Mike Miller
Manu
Marcus Camby
Ray Allen
Sure, then I’d be for this. But the odds of a haul like that seem low. But if we trade Nash, we can simply ignore vets (Camby, Miller, Manu) and go for younger players (David Lee, Rudy Gay) with our eyes set on serious competitiveness in 2-3 years, which is much more likely.
Turn arounds in a single season rarely happen. And they happen less when Lebron is playing with Amare.
Don't feel bad, Channing. We can't rebound either.
I made the case for trading Nash
a few months ago….I wouldn’t jump of a bridge if it happened and it was a good deal. Obviously, it’s not going to happen this week and I seriously doubt the Suns are even considering it so I’ve not given it much thought.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
Ｔｒａｄｉｎｇ Ｎａｓｈ ｏｎｌｙ ｍａｋｅｓ ｓｅｎｓｅ ｉｆ ｗｅ ａｒｅ ｇｅｔｔｉｎｇ ａ ｙｏｕｎｇ ｐｏｉｎｔ
Ｂｅｓｉｄｅｓ Ｐｏｒｔｌａｎｄ， ｗｈｏ ｈａｓ ａ ｇｏｏｄ ｏｎｅ ｔｏ ｓｐａｒｅ？
That's a good question...
There aren’t a lot for sure, but I think Dirk, Gasol, Chris Bosh & Timmy are probably as good or a little better.
Right behind them…Carlos Boozer, Josh Smith, and the current iteration of Kevin Garnett…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
dirk isn’t leaving the mavs, gasol is signed, bosh is really good, tim is old as hell, booze is alright, josh smith won’t be leaving and garnett is getting old too.
besides bosh, which would be a big gamble, amare is our best option and he wants big money because they know it.
Don't have to
replace that position with a better player…
Winning teams have one great player and a couple really good players and there’s only one team that can win each year and in 8 years we’ve not won with Amare. He’s not an elite player. He’s not good enough to carry the team and he’s had plenty of opportunities.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:53 PM MST up reply actions
You may think Timmy is old...
But the Big Fundamnetal is the best PF in the game today…period…If Pops made him available, the Suns would be right in line, like most every other team…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Garnett's knees are shot
he can barely move right now
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:55 PM MST up reply actions
Just a shadow of his former self right now...
That being said, a hobble KG is still better than 75% or more of the Big men we have in the league…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
He's looked pretty
darn bad this season…and he broke down last year as well. I would want to know a LOT more about that knee
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 3:01 PM MST up reply actions
Would wan't him as a everyday PF in his current state...
But I believe KG would be a absolute gem for a team coming off the bench and playing about 20-25 minutes a game…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Let him get fully healthy, but yeah he just gives you so much more other than his stats, true gem of a player.
I still think about what could have been...
If we could have parlayed Shawn Marion into KG instead of Shaq…
Ah to dream eternal…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
+1
That is why I hate Marion, he is the one who made that deal fall though. We’d be champions right now.
Dang it..getting my blood pressure up thinking about it..
Made me break out my “past failures pills”
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I hear ya mate I hear ya
That is why I want to fight people who stick up for Marion in any shape or form. He was 10 times the baby Amare is.
Ｍａｒｉｏｎ ｗａｓ ｔｈｅ ｒｅａｓｏｎ ｆｏｒ ｍｕｃｈ ｏｆ ｏｕｒ ｓｕｃｃｅｓｓ
Ｙｏｕ ｓｈｏｕｌｄ ｂｅ ｆｉｇｈｔｉｎｇ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｗｈｏ ｓｔａｎｄ ｕｐ ｆｏｒ Ｋｅｒｒ ｉｎ ａｎｙ ｓｈａｐｅ ｏｒ ｆｏｒｍ．
Ａｓ ｅｖｅｒｙ ｍａｊｏｒ ｄｅｃｉｓｉｏｎ Ｋｅｒｒ ｍａｄｅ ｍａｄｅ ｏｕｒ ｔｅａｍ ｗｏｒｓｅ ｏｆｆ ｉｎ ｄｅｆｅｎｓｅ ａｎｄ ｔｅａｍ ｃｈｅｍｉｓｔｒｙ．
well if he can't walk
he could always crawl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT8qLg2NjnQ
Gasol, Nowitzki, Bosh, Smith, Duncan are the top tier PFs.
Jefferson, Boozer, STAT, Garnett, Lee and as surprised as i am to say it Zach Randolph would make up the second tier.
In 2-3 years Love, Horford, thompson, Aldridge, Beasley, Griffin, Green, Randolph, have the potential to be All-Stars/All-nba. Of these guys at least 4 have been talked about in trade rumors this year, getting a good PF isn’t impossible.
I wouldn't put Smith up their yet...
He makes a lot of bad decision , turns the ball over a lot and relies too much on his (impressive) athleticism…Give him a couple years yet and he’ll be right there…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
It's the ungodly athleticism...
Don’t feel bad…It gets a lot a lot of people…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
i’ll take david lee and that’s it.
knowing steve kerr, we’re gonna get the sh*ttiest trade available, i guarantee it.
amare for wally and a first round pick in 2020.
Dang...I thought I was negative...!
Hopefully, it won’t be that bad…If it is, there will be a public flogging at the Maricopa County Courthouse….
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Gasol/Butler
Do you guys understand how to Lakers got Gasol?
Shaq to Miami for Odom, Butler, Grant
Butler to Washington for Kwame Brown
Kwame Brown to Memphis for Pau Gasol.
So really Butler was traded for Gasol.
But realize this Amare is our Butler and Big Z will be our Kwame.
Kwame and Big Z’s contracts match up closely. Kwame was 9mill and Big Z was 11.5 million. If we keep Big Z we can sign and trade him for a player such as Joe Johnson or David Lee this season.
Josh Smith
might be available at some point soon…if JJ re-signs in Atlanta they are going to be in a world of hurt with a lot of big long term contracts. They might have to trade Josh in a salary dump this summer.
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:54 PM MST up reply actions
If re-signing Joe Johnson forces them to trade Josh Smith then they could just do the smart thing and no-resign Joe Johnson (at least the smart thing to me)
Trying to predict what a team with ownership in flux is going to do is a tricky thing…
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 2:56 PM MST up reply actions
sure...it's
a just a slim possibility at this point
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 2:59 PM MST up reply actions
i just don’t get your logic…nash and stoudemire are all-stars and have been for years, maybe it’s the people around them that are the problem…or maybe it’s that we keep trading people before everyone can get going. we jump ship every time the going gets rough. we’re 4 games back from 2nd seed. sign amare because we’re not gonna be spending money on anything else.
if it were up to me and we HAD to trade stoudemire, i’d plan on signing gerald green and bosh/lee in the summer, but we won’t get that luck. kerr is always letting us down, as he secretly works for the cavaliers
I thought he was a Spurs sleeper agent?
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 3:15 PM MST up reply actions
Gerald Green?
why on earth would you want to sign Gerald Green? Is he even in the league anymore?
kerr works for many agencies…
gerald green is pretty good, he’s young, he’s got talent but he’s in russia. everyone here talks about getting young players, so i’m trying to contribute (which is hard)
Kuato...seriously....Kerr is still on his learning curve
As much as I or others don’t like it…Boy Genius is still learning his job…There is a good chance he will make some more short-sighted mistakes along the way…We just hope and pray that this one will not be too painful…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
The only thing I fault him for is the Shaq to Cleavland deal, other than that I have been impressed.
Well, the unloading of Kurt Thomas was pretty ugly
I still have nightmares of lost draft picks….
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Well yes, but Sarver pushed his hand on that one, it just didn’t look like to me Kerr had anything to do with that.
When those two rocket scientists get together..
You never know what will happen…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Most financially motivated moves can be blamed on owners.
I’m not sure why this Stoudemire thing isn’t seen as financial motivation.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
Not wanting to over pay
I guess is a financial thing…there are a few teams that can afford to buy their way out of mistakes but even the Knicks couldn’t do that beyond a certain point
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 3:42 PM MST up reply actions
Seth, The Knicks are the exception to every law of nature...
The way they spent and the pieces they assembled…It just wasn’t natural…In Amare’s case, I think the Suns management could bit the bullet and pay 15-16 million a year for him to remain here
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Kerr wasn't even part of the team
when that decision was made
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 15, 2010 8:50 AM MST up reply actions
In 2005?
I’m not so sure about that
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 15, 2010 8:59 AM MST up reply actions
Well he's been GM since
2007-2008, right? So that was only a couple of years before he actually was employed by the Suns
you think you have nightmares now, wait and see how low that draft pick that we gave away ends up being….
rgreyslak@gmail.com ____ twitter @rgreyslak
＋１：Ｈｅ ｔｒａｄｅｄ ａ ｋｅｙ ｃｏｒｅ ｏｆ ｏｕｒ ｂｅｌｏｖｅｄ Ｓｕｎｓ ａｗａｙ ｗｈｉｃｈ ｒｅｌｅｇａｔｅｄ ｕｓ
ａｓ ｆｉｒｓｔ ｒｏｕｎｄ ｌｏｓｅｒｓ ａｎｄ ａｂｏｖｅ ａｖｅｒａｇｅ ｔｅａｍ．
i know....
When we traded Bell and Diaw…all we pretty much got in return was Dudley since Richardson isn’t horrible but he’s making way too much money….If Richardson wasn’t making half what he was making he’d still be considered unproductive.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
＋１： Ｉ ｈａｔｅｄ ｔｈｅ ＪＲｉｃｈ ｔｒａｄｅ ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ ｓｔａｒｔ ｂｅｃｏｓ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｗａｙ ｈｅ
ｐｌａｙｅｄ ｉｎ ｈｉｓ ｐｒｅｖｉｏｕｓ ｔｅａｍｓ．．．
Many people here seem to be getting confused.
I’m pretty sure the Suns organization decided they ‘had’ to trade Amare Stoudemire…ESPN doesn’t cover it just because a large portion of fans said ’let’s do it.
All star or not the Phoenix Suns seem to have decided that they have to move him now because they won’t be able to agree on a contract extension (or they feel he isn’t worth one atthe level he wants)
Seriously though – who cares if someone is on the all star game – fans vote for the all star game and if yao was healthy this year – Amare wouldn’t have been a starter
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:20 PM MST reply actions
amare is our number one scorer and rebounder…taking out that big piece is gonna hurt us a lot. we don’t “need” to get rid of j-rich either, but it looks like the suns are trying to because they’re most likely underground jews. i hope you guys enjoy the all-star game tonight, because although “fans vote for the all star game”, this is going to be the last time you see amare and nash together most likely, you might get 2 more games. this is the end of a legacy. the suns have slowly taken apart a great team, and now the one-two punch is all but gone. someday you’ll look back at this and be like “damn, that was some great fucking basketball”
“Underground jews” huh?
So you’re an idiot then?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:31 PM MST up reply actions
Now see, if that gets posted on the blog i am enforcer on – he just gets banned, immediately.
Curios to see what happens here
(PS….my last name is Magee, but I’m jewish – so i guess i’m underground too?)
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:32 PM MST up reply actions
Well I’m not sure if immediate banning is necessary but I get what you are saying. I’d like to know exactly what an underground Jew is…? I"v never heard that one.
I assume it’s a euphemism for people who act ‘jewish’ when it comes to money but aren’t actually jewish.
It’s moron speak for – kind of like when i was in college and heard some idiot scream that his friend shouldn’t try and ‘jew him down’
And yes, to me, it’s immediate banning, anti-semitism is immediate banning cause it indicates a quality of moron I never ever want to hear speak.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:35 PM MST up reply actions
delay only b/c I was doing other things...banned now
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 3:44 PM MST up reply actions
Didn't delete the comments
thought…sometimes it’s better to let stupidity see the light of day to remind us of what’s out there
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 14, 2010 3:46 PM MST up reply actions
Thanks (and if you saw fit to delete his post and all further responses, I don’t think anyone would protest :) )
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:46 PM MST up reply actions
you have to spend money to win championships. the suns won’t do it.
ban me? go ahead.
did i hurt your feelings for speaking my mind? boo hoo
okay, i get that. but they didn’t give them time to even go a whole season together.
LAKERS payroll – 91.4 mil
CELTICS payroll – 82.2 mil
CLEVELAND – 79.9 mil
ORLANDO – 77.9
those teams can all win a championship…the suns? 61.8, and that’s behind the pacers, bulls and bucks.
it is a stereotype that jews are cheap, and the suns are cheap too. so i made the connection and i hurt your e-feelings.
I know you’ve been banned
but of the teams listed – i believe only 2 of them have a legitimate shot at a championship right now (and adding Amare to Cleveland may screw them over this year)
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
the biggest contract of all time was Jordan's last deal with the Bulls
2 years: $30M and $36M.
Remember, the Suns also got a little relief when they traded for Shaq by getting rid of Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks’ $21M worth of contracts. Trix was due to make $17M the year Shaq was here.
"True glory consists of doing what deserves to be written, and writing what deserves to be read".
by Pliny the Elder on Feb 14, 2010 3:47 PM MST up reply actions
You din’t hurt my feelings you just demonstrated that you’re an ignorant moron who has some anti semitisim lurking inside you, and since I’m jewish I tend to view anti semites the way I view anti choice people who advocate killing doctors and don’t see the hypocrisy.
Worthy of immediate and forcible setrilization
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:36 PM MST up reply actions
Have you lost your mind..?
You don’t make comments like that…!
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
True, but if he didn’t, how would we know he was a moron?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:34 PM MST up reply actions
He's pretty much confirmed that with that post
It’s amazing how cocky people get behind the security of a computer terminal. Put these same people in a public forum and they won’t make a whimper…The old adage..“Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt…” is quite appropriate here…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Dude...
Get off of this board…It’s amazing how talks of a possible trade can somehow dive all the way into an anti-Semite claim. The Race Card….The card people pull when there ignorant minds can no longer muster up a valid response having to do with the argument at hand.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
"underground jews"?
WTF
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
My...My...My...
How the trade value as fallen….Can we umm….Just offer Amare and a first rounder to Minni and get Big Al and Brian Cardinals expiring deal? Please? If this is some sick punishment for Suns then I’m sorry! We’re good Fans! I don’t know what we did wrong! Amare Stoudemire for basically a second round pick and a bench player and we’re still stuck with J-Rich? :(
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Giving up on love jefferson now would be silly by the wolves – that’s a bad deal for the wolves
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 3:50 PM MST up reply actions
im new at this but
What about adding mo williams just an idea im realy kind of new to basketball so i dont exactly understand how everything works.
Assuming you’re serious – giving up their point guard would be bad for the cavs cause Delonte West isn’t really a point guard and neither is daniel gibson (neither really is mo williams, but he’s more of a point than the other two)
The cavs – as good as they are – have very few serious trade assets player wise to make a deal and not hurt their team in another area – which is why rumors are they need help from a 3rd team to get Amare – and if the Suns truly value Iguodala as reported (and the Cavs want Amare) then I don’t see why the cavs wouldn’t help with hickson if he’s the hold up.
I personally think the cavs trading for stoudemire is a bad idea – he’s going to get in Lebrons way and he doesn’t work real well with Shaq as has been shown…it hurts their chances to win the title this year I believe and maybe Lebron changes his mind after playing with Amare for a while.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 4:49 PM MST up reply actions
The Cavs...
Don’t really need a point guard. Lebron is a Point Forward and probably takes the ball up court 90% of the time. He averages 39 minutes a game, most of the time he plays the full game if it’s close. The only reason it isn’t higher is due to the high amount of fourth quarter lebron has got to sit out due to total blow outs. With Miami, LA, and Cleveland all you need at point is someone to handle it the time Kobe, Wade, and Lebron sit out…which is about 8-10 minutes. Other than that, you can pretty much put anyone at point who can sink a jumper…Both Delonte and Gibson apply to that. In all reality though the Cavs have a zero percent chance of getting rid of Mo…They aren’t trying to blow up the core of the team for one guy.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I understand that – but they still need to start 5 players – and pulling mo williams means they gotta start daniel gibson who isn’t a starter AND weakens their bench.
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 4:59 PM MST up reply actions
good info
I was in the dark with trade talks that have happened over the weekend so thank you for the insight & getting me updated. I think if we can unload JRich’s contract for expirings, it would suck for this season, but we could rebuild on the fly & still remain competitive closing the year out. Plus with that much cap space we could sign anyone we wanted… Which is awesome! We just would have to make sure we’re not overpaying anyone
by SunsFTW on Feb 14, 2010 4:36 PM MST via mobile reply actions
I don't believe the Heat owner
But even if Beasley is available it sounds like we really, really don’t want him. WEAKSAUCE.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
DISLIKE
WojYahooNBA
Suns waiting on Philly to tell them whether Andre Igoudala will be included with Sam Dalembert for Stoudemire-Barbosa package, sources say.
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/9118219954
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
This is kind of interesting.
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/9118329430
WojYahooNBA
League source involved in Amar’e talks says he would be “shocked” if Miami could deliver through a third team the young talent Suns want.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Philly news
WojYahooNBA
To be clear, there’s no deal for Suns with Philly unless Iguodala is involved. So far, Philly hasn’t been willing to include him.
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/9118387503
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Well, looks like we're not keeping him, and it looks like it's very likely we're going to get screwed.
http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA
Several sources involved have all but ruled out this scenario: Phoenix does nothing and keeps Stoudemire.
1 minute ago from web
As things stand now, the Cavs package of Big Z and Hickson is the most viable for Suns, sources say.
3 minutes ago from web
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Weaksauce.
WojYahooNBA
As @PDCavsinder says, Suns can save $10 million with Cavs deal — after Z buyout. As one source says, “They like Hickson well enough too.”
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I just want this to be over.
PDcavsinsider
Also, based on my conversations today, it doesn’t sound like Cavs are “close” yet with Suns. Neither side is sure what will happen.
3 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/PDcavsinsider/status/9118672385
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
he Also notes that Big Z's trade kicker gets around the Trade machine problems.
Bummer
PSN ID- presbot
Unless
We can get Iggy then I want nothing to do with this deal. I am really shocked Miami wasn’t willing to get rid of Beasley/Qrich expiring deal for Amare…It’s too bad…When I saw the Cleveland trade I literally wanted to cry. I hope to keep Amare…The 17 Million he would make would be more than any contract he will receive due to the bargaining agreement….Amare might as well Cash in next year before the hold out.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Also...The more we wait..
The more Apt Cleveland is to make a trade for Murphy or Jaminson.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Based on the varied reports, weren’t Jamsion and Murphy like choice a and choice b – it sounds like Amare is choice c after they can’t get the other 2?
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 5:47 PM MST up reply actions
It would be stupid of them to put Amare at choice3
He would be better for them than Jameson “creaky hips” would be.
They want a true "stretch 4" though
Jamison has 3 pt range and could spread the floor for them more than Amare could. Also, they seem to be kind of concerned about both Shaq/Amare in the paint.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
It worked out pretty excellently under Gentry
Amare put up like 29/9 after we got Shaq. Amare killed it in Seven Seconds or Shaq. Problem was that Porter came along and effed everything up….then Gentry stepped in and Amare killed it for two games against LAC. Theeen he got injured.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I dunno for the money you can get a lot more out of Amare than Jameson or Murphy cost, at least Amare can do other things than launch shots, Amare may not have 3 point range but the kid has a knock down 18 footer.
Although I dont know why I am arguing this, I dont want Clevland to do this trade so I hope they dont want Amare.
yeah Cavs need an outside shooter
I think Jamison would be a better fit at this point in the season.. Amare, if they can sign him, would obviously be better long term
by 7Swords of Salat on Feb 14, 2010 5:55 PM MST up reply actions
Or maybe he wouldn’t.
According to most reports the Cavs want a ‘stretch 4’ – a 4 with range – does Amare have the range of a guy like murphy or jamison.
I’m going to bet he doesn’t
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 5:50 PM MST up reply actions
hail know!
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I would rather have Beasley 100% more than JJ. Beasley already has some range in his game and the second he was on the receiving end of a pass from Nash he would forget all about Miami. Also, Beasley in college and his first year in the pro’s shot 40% from three. This year he is only at 27.If we did Amare for Q-Rich/Beasley, we would save thirteen million and have J-Rich’s expiring deal next year…we would be in EXCELLENT shape for 2011 free agency to get a small forward to replace Grant Hill.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Well...
Cleveland apparently couldn’t be higher on Hickson…An athletic guy over the past five games who is averaging 13 points and 5 rebounds. I’m honestly more impressed in Speights, Maxiell, Blair, Hansborough than him…He really doesn’t impress me that much…But when you’re the Cavs and on national television 3 times a week Hickson is getting a little over-romanticized…When you play with Lebron/Shaq who are constantly getting double teamed of course you’re wide open athletic dunks are going to look better than they really are. Trading for Jaminson/Murphy allows them to keep there style of Play…Amare, who is no doubt more talented than two is someone who would take time to mesh with the offense…Jaminson/Murphy could make a seamless transition. I Think Jaminson would be the perfect fit for Cleveland…Although he is aging he is having his best year as a player and will no doubt come for a cheaper price.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Think about the Amare/Bron pick and roll
that thing would be a masterpiece, maybe the best pick and roll duo since malone and stockton.
Are you kidding or unaware that lebron leads his team in assists – 8.3 pg – that’s pretty good from any position
by jemagee on Feb 14, 2010 6:06 PM MST up reply actions
is this sarcasm?
he DOES average 8.3 apg. whether you think that makes him a good passer or not is up to you, but 8.3 is not a lie…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 14, 2010 10:18 PM MST up reply actions
This is the guy that we want for Amare?
He can’t shoot outside of 5 feet!
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
No he's not
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
if some kind of deal involving stoudemire and richardson to cleveland for hickson, ilgauskus, and sczerbiak goes through, summer ’10 is looking good.
in the summer, we could go after david lee and rudy gay due to our large amount of cap space.
10-11 lineup: nash-gay-lee-hickson-lopez
in his early years, lee played small forward and gay can play shooting guard. what a starting lineup. amazing potential.
by ryanstrtddafire99 on Feb 14, 2010 6:01 PM MST reply actions
No Offense....
But that line up sucks…Nash is the only three point threat in that line up..Plus, Lee is too good of a rebounder to put him at three…
Nash-Barbosa-Gay-JJ-Lee
Our second unit would be Dragic-Dudley-Hill-Frye-Lopez…Assuming Frye and Hill opt in which I think they both would.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Or...
Nash-Barbosa-Gay-Lee-Lopez….I think I like this one a little more…Lopez length could help make up for Lee’s average Defense. JJ Is a nice energy guy off the bench…
A NICE GUY OFF THE BENCH….NOT A NICE GUY TO TRADE FOR OUR FRANCHISE. (DAMN IT, RYAN…DON’T CRY! DON’T CRY!) holds back tears
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
lee is not tall enough to play center. your pf and center would both be 6-9. lopez, however, is 7-0
by ryanstrtddafire99 on Feb 14, 2010 6:07 PM MST up reply actions
um, i think lopez has a lot of potential. lopez>barbosa. three pointers will come from the bench.
by ryanstrtddafire99 on Feb 14, 2010 6:06 PM MST reply actions
I agree, Lopez has a lot of potiential…While his offensive game will never be as polished as his brother I do like him. Why would the Suns do that? The whole concept of this team is hitting the three, they wouldn’t change it now. All it would do is cut down on Nash’s effectiveness. A huge part of the Offense is Nash driving inside then throwing out to the wings for open three pointers. Gay, Lee, and Lopez really don’t have much range. Gay is a slasher/driver..Lee is a beast on the Glass and Lopez is out defensive presence. Putting Lee at three and Hickson at four is horrible, Scroll up and look at JJ’s field goal chart…He has no range outside of five feet. Also, Gay at three is a good rebounder…So Nash-Barbosa-Gay-Lee-Lopez would leave us with an excellent starting unit and a similar constructed bench. If all of our three point shooters were on the bench that would be a disaster. Lets just agree to disagree.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Also...
When I said: “A NICE GUY OFF THE BENCH….NOT A NICE GUY TO TRADE FOR OUR FRANCHISE. (DAMN IT, RYAN…DON’T CRY! DON’T CRY!) holds back tears.” I was talking about myself since my name is Ryan.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I think the cavs will need a third team to get involved to help you get rid of J Rich’s contract. I think the most likely is Philly.
A three team deal that looks something like this is what I’m starting to visualize:
Sixers Get:
Wally Szczerbiak (From Cleveland)* (signed to a $15-17 million expiring deal)
Jason Richardson (from Phoenix)
2011 First round pick (from Cleveland)
2010 Second Round Pick (from Cleveland)
Suns get:
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (from Cleveland)*
JJ Hickson (from Cleveland)
2010 First round Pick (from Cleveland)
2011 Second round pick (from Cleveland)
Cavs Get:
Amare Stoudemire (from Phoenix)
Andre Iguodala (from Philly)
Samuel Delembert (from Philly)
I think this is a good deal for the cavs (though expensive) and at least about as good as the suns could hope for. The real hanger up is convincing the sixers that taking JRich back is a sound financial move for the sixers as it would make him an expiring piece next year around this time so they can start to re-build in earnest this offseason and also have Jrich as a trade chip or an expiring deal for the 2011 off season.
You guys have figured out of course that I’m from cleveland, so what do you guys think?
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Ａｎｄ ｗｈｏ ｄｏ ｔｈｅ Ｃａｖｓ ｅｎｄ ｕｐ ｗｉｔｈ ｔｈｅ ａｌｌ ｓｔａｒ ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ ｗｈｉｌｅ ｔｈｅ Ｓｕｎｓ
ｇｅｔ ａ ｒｏｏｋｉｅ ａｎｄ ａｎ ｅｘｐｉｒｉｎｇ．
Ｔｈｉｓ ｔｒａｄｅ ｉｓ ａ Ｆ
well you guys could probably get him for a big expiring contract, Dragic and Lopez or some other combination of young pieces and picks, but the suns don’t have the big expiring deal (like 15 million +) to make the deal work (and take delembert because the sixers want rid of him and his contract)
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Give Up..
DRAGIC OR LOPEZ? HAHA WHAT? Have you EVER watched the Suns play? Dragic and Lopez are 100% untouchable.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
that’s the point, you could get Iggy but it would cost you some talent, the sixers aren’t fools either. Especially since you don’t have a big contract that is expiring this year to send to philly. The sixers would want young talent since the suns cant offer them instant cap relief.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Wow..
Horrible trade for Phoenix. Do they cavs SERIOUSLY get Iggy, Stat, and Sameul? REALLY? So they’ll have four centers after they re-sign Big Z, have the best scoring big man in the game then GET in terms of style of game LEBRON JUNIOR in Iggy. I mean…Come On….REALLY? REALLY? Are you going to get on a Suns board and REALLY try to post a crap trade like that?
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
It really not that crazy, I know its hard to hear right now but I mean can you really blame me for wanting a good team for a few years? I had to watch My baseball team sell CC sabathia and Cliff Lee in back to back years (while they were both reigning Cy Young award winners no less) for basically nothing. To add insult to injury I had to watch both former indians start world series game 1 against one another.
This trade isn’t that crazy. Economics are involved. Theres a reason the cavs are willing to take on heaps of salary and sell out their future for a couple of star players now. The cavs MUST provide LeBron with every reason to stay in cleveland. Even if this trade went down there would still be no guarantee that Lebron, Stoudemire or shaq was a cav next year and if LeBron left I doubt anyone else would want to stay.
If LeBron leaves, the cavs value instantly drops $200 million. Even winning the ring this year isn’t worth that, the cavs must hit a home run this trade deadline in order to try and keep lebron, and even that isn’t going to guarantee anything.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Wow u cannot be serious with that trade can u?
I mean no offense bro, but you must be sniffing canned air if you think that anybody would give the Cavs a sweet deal like that…that’s worst than the Gasol trade…nothing wrong with being a FANatic, but at least be realistic
by ron_dasun on Feb 14, 2010 9:47 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
＋１ ｔｏ ＴｈｅＲｚａ８２：－１０００ ｔｏ ｊａｗｓ
Ｄｏｎ＇ｔ ｔｈｉｎｋ Ｓｕｎｓ ｆａｎｓ ｗｉｌｌ ｔｏｌｅｒａｔｅ ａｎｏｔｈｅｒ ｓａｌａｒｙ ｄｕｍｐ ｌｉｋｅ ｔｈｅ Ｓｈａｑ ｔｒａｄｅ．
Here is my 3 team deal with Philly, Phoenix and Cleveland.
Phoenix get Iggy, JJ, and Dally.
Cleveland get Amare.
Philly get J-Rich, Ilguaskas, Cleveland’s 1st round pick and Daniel Green.
Overall, all teams get what they want. Philly gets rid of two big contracts for an expiring and soon to be an expiring in J-Rich.
tell you the truth I am starting doubt the sixers would take J rich and I don’t think the cavs have much interest in his contract either. The cavs might want to take Delembert though because depth at C could help them while Z can’t play and if he retires after this season. If you guys were willing to part with Barbosa (making retaining JRich’s contract more palatable) i think somthing might work out. Don’t Kid yourselves though Sarver will be kicking and screaming before he takes Iguodala’s contract without a big salary cut this year, which would be very tough to fandangle. Sarver wants under the Luxury tax this season and bad. However somthing like this might be possible:
Sixers Get:
Szczerbiak (signed to a $15-17 million expiring deal)
L. Barbosa
Jamario Moon
Cavs 2012 first round pick.
Suns get:
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (from Cleveland)*
JJ Hickson (from Cleveland)
Cavs 2010 first round pick
Cavs Get:
Amare Stoudemire (from Phoenix)
Andre Iguodala (from Philly)
Samuel Delembert (from Philly)
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
The point of a 3rd team getting involved is so the Suns can get rid of J-Rich and get more value back. I’m just letting you know.
yeah i get it but it’ll be tough to get rid of his contract, why would the sixers take his contract just so they could get rid of Delembert’s slightly smaller 2 year deal? however they might be convinced to take Barbosa’s deal which is half the size of JRich’s at least and provides you with half of the salary relief you want. Problem is that you guys want iguodala and the cavs would want iguodala in exchange for their other big expiring deal (sczcerbiak) and the trade doesn’t work without the cavs.
Amar’e basically holds all the chips. If he says “I want to be a sixer” you guys could probably cut out the cavs and get some talent (though expensive) in iguodala and get rid of amar’e’s salary at least (don’t count on getting rid of JRich) or you can both go the fully financially motivated / rebuilding deal and take the cav’s expiring deals for expensive talented players. But no matter how great of a player amar’e is, he isn’t going to command on this trade market the kind of talent AND salary relief you want.
I realize as fans you want talent but he ownership wants to move salary. Realistically Amar’e is pushing the suns to trade him to a contender for a little something now so he can be part of a serious playoff run this season and the suns can at least get something for him, like the article we’re talking about says.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
－１：Ｗｅ ｗａｎｔ ｔａｌｅｎｔ ｆｏｒ ｔｒａｄｉｎｇ ａ ｌｅｇｉｔ ｆｒａｎｃｈｉｓｅ ｐｌａｙｅｒ ａｇｅｄ ２７
Ｉｆ ｗｅ ｗａｎｔ ｅｘｐｉｒｉｎｇ ｃｏｎｔｒａｃｔｓ， ｗｅ ｄｏｎ＇ｔ ｈａｖｅ ｔｏ ｄｅａｌ ｗｉｔｈ ｔｈｅ Ｃａｖｓ．
Yeah...
Thats more like it…That was literally the most biased trades ever…He’s one of those people who think just because the ESPN trade machine accepts it that it’s actually a good trade for all teams involved.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Ｃｈｅｃｋ ｏｕｔ ｔｈｅｓｅ ｌｉｎｋｓ
Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland makes no sense
http://valleyofthesuns.com/2010/02/13/amare-stoudemire-to-cleveland-makes-no-sense/
＝＝＝
Ｒｅａｄ ｔｈｅ ｃｏｍｍｅｎｔｓ ｏｆ ｔｈｉｓ ｏｎｅ：
http://valleyofthesuns.com/2010/02/05/amare-stoudemire-trade-rumors-2010-why-a-philly-deal-involving-iguodala-would-be-the-suns-best-bet/
＝＝＝
Ａｄｖｏｃａｔｏｒ ｏｆ ｓｔａｙ ｐａｔ： http://www.downtownphoenixjournal.com/2010/01/21/suns-spot-relax-planet-orange/
＝＝＝
Miami Heat’s Michael Beasley does not want to be traded
`If they decide to trade me, I don’t want to go,‘’ Beasley said before Wednesday’s game against the Hawks. ``Amare’s a great player, so you understand whatever happens. You understand that it’s a business. You just have to focus on your job.’’
ＯＭＧ：Miami Heat owner says team hoping to keep Beasley along with Wade, Riley
ALLAS — The Miami Heat is heavily involved in trade discussions with multiple teams, but it is not inclined to deal forward Michael Beasley before Thursday’s deadline.
Heat owner Micky Arison confirmed Saturday that Miami is in the middle of numerous proposals, but he denied that Beasley is being shopped in any of the deals being discussed.
``We’ve never put him out there,‘’ Arison said as he watched the East team practice for Sunday’s All-Star Game. ``I know I’ve read about him being put out there. I can tell you this: We have not put him out there. The media has. We like Michael and see him as a part of our core going forward.’
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/basketball/story/1479429.html
Ｗｉｌｌ ｙｏｕ ｔｒａｄｅ ｗｉｔｈ Ｍｉａｍｉ ｗｉｔｈｏｕｔ Ｂｅａｓｌｅｙ？
Posturing to save face.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Ｉ ｈｏｐｅ ｓｏ：Ｏｕｒ Ｓｕｎｓ ｃａｎｎｏｔ ａｆｆｏｒｄ ｔｏ ｂｅ ａ ｋｉｎｇ ｍａｋｅｒ ｂｙ ｔｒａｄｉｎｇ
ｔｏ ｈｅｌｐ ｔｈｅ Ｈｅａｔ ｗｉｎ ｉｔ ａｌｌ．．．
Ｉ ｄｏｎ ｎｏｔ ｔｒｕｓｔ Ｋｅｒｒ ｗｉｔｈ Ｐａｔ Ｒｉｌｅｙ ｏｒ Ｄａｎｎｙ Ｆｅｒｒｙ．
Ｔｈｅｙ ｏｗｎｅｄ ｕｓ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｌａｓｔ ２ ｔｒａｄｅｓ．
I would never trade to Miami without Beasley…he is the only reason I would outside of Wade….God, I’m really starting to miss the original trade offer we received last year from Golden State something like Biendris(Spelling) Randolph, some expiring deal and another young guy…It wouldn’t be Curry unfortunetly….Also, I’d rather get Maggette then Biendris…Corey has been on an absolute tear.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Amar’e didn’t want to go. Amar’e is trying to get to a contender. If he thinks the cavs want to make a trade thats the one he will push for and scare away other suitors (which he has), even if they might have better offers for the suns. No team is going to take him knowing full well he has no desire to be there and they will get jack shit when he bounces out on them in free agency this summer.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Dude....
I KNOW ALL OF THIS. I’m just saying showing how much better Golden States package is compared to Cleveland’s crap deal. If you are also Saying Amare wouldn’t go to Miami then you’re insane. He has a house in south beach and the second he got off the plane Pat Riley would charm the pants off of him. Not to mention D-wade plays there.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
The Suns
didn’t kill the Warriors deal. The Warriors did. They don’t want Amare b/c Amare doesn’t want to be there. You can’t blame the Suns for not making a deal that the other team refused
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 15, 2010 8:53 AM MST up reply actions
This is just a bad situation
from my perspective, heres what I see
1) Amare has never changed. He’s always been a me first player who puts little to no effort on defense, but a very efficient scorer. After this many years, I don’t expect him to start giving a shit about playing defense.
2) In one year when we lost Amare (2005-2006) for the entire season (minus 3 games), the team did nearly as well as the year before (the uber talented team with a younger Marion and Nash, Amare pre knee injury, and a young but smart Joe Johnson). Basically, with a playmaker like Nash, replacing Amare’s points (his biggest and almost only contribution) wouldn’t be difficult. Remember, that year, 7 players had career highs in points. Most of them were in their first year with the Suns.
3) Amare is going to make 17m next year as a worst case scenario. If the Suns offer 53 over 4, that means he would only have to play out next season, then find a way to get 36 over 3 to match a Suns 53m/4yr offer. He’ll get that from some team that can’t afford anyone better or doesn’t know how to spend their money. So there’s no way he takes anything less than 15-16m a year over 4.
4) Amare doesn’t deserve 15m a year.
5) Even if we realize Amare doesn’t deserve 15m a year, we may not find anyone else to spend the 8-9m that this gets us under the cap after next year.
6) With each year, Nash gets older, and Grant Hill’s is always one bad fall away from retirement (which honestly, I’d like to see happen after this year anyhow. I’d like to see proof of life for him sometime this year. He faded fast). We could just trade Amare out for cap relief, then use that to get more picks if we can’t afford anyone big name. But then we have to let them develop, and I just don’t see anyone on our team who could really lead us post Nash era.
7) If we do find a way to move Amare and JR, we have to turn that money into an elite player and a young talent to consider any sort of chance at a ring. And that window of opportunity would be 2 years, tops.
8) Oh I forgot, Sarver is notorious for trying to save money by burning draft picks. Who’s to say he doesn’t move Amare just to save the money, then get us a pupu platter of mediocre talent just so his bottom line looks good. If you don’t believe me, look at all the trades they’ve done in the past to save money. It’s sickening.
9) I’m not sold on Kerr as a GM, or Gentry as a coach. Kerr hasn’t made any moves that impressed me. Gentry is using an old D’antoni playbook. At best, I can say he’s a good player’s coach, but I don’t know if that’s the right attitude with some of the guys on our team (specifically Amare).
10) Despite all this, Nash has this nasty habit of taking mediocre players and making them play their best offensively. Which wouldn’t be so bad, except it’s always going to keep us in a playoff hunt, or just out of contention, leading to late teens picks. We can’t even tank, that would just be wasting valuable Nash years.
11) In summary, we are screwed.
by Max Simbron on Feb 14, 2010 9:29 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
We are screwed.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Stop joking :(...that is a joke right
by ron_dasun on Feb 14, 2010 9:49 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
(sigh) Amare you just never lived up to my expectations whether the knee injuries or the ego..he just never became that star that I envisioned
And it scares me to let him go cause I don’t want him to turn into this uber-beast for some other team, but I know it’s time to move on…just please PLEASE net us a young promising PG and a project at PF or picks…just don’t trade him for somebody ELSE trash thAt we try to paint them as having potential…yeah I’m looking at you Yi
by ron_dasun on Feb 14, 2010 9:57 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Said days for Sun fans
Am I the only one that see that a PG is just as important if not more so than a PF…Nash not gonna play forever and I’m not sure Dragic is really a true PG
by ron_dasun on Feb 14, 2010 10:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Dragic
improved so much from last year, who isn’t to say he will improve more? He already has showed much more confidence and showed he can score. I’m sure he’s in the video room watching every Nash play over and over and over. He’s even taking the ball up court when him and Nash are playing together…That’s a true sign of confidence in his abilities. I’m not a huge fan of Gentry but he knows how to get the best out of guys…Channing Frye’s career was going down into the Dumps since his rookie year and Dragic was just another busted pick and he managed to turn that around in two years…Having Nash doesn’t hurt either but Gentry does deserve credit for this one. No doubt.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
Paul Coro just wrote
In his column that the Suns offered Amare a 2 YEAR EXTENSION!! What a slap in the face! Whatever your opinions are of Amare, how can anyone ever take our front office seriously again! We offered a 27 year old 5 time all star a 2 YEAR DEAL! When Sarver and Kerr try to sell us on that trade w/ CLE (otherwise known as “the turd sandwich”) by saying Amare ‘wanted too much $’ just put yourself in Amare’s shoes and ask yourself how you would have felt if they offered you 3 years less than they offered Boris freakin Diaw! I told my season tix account rep I was waiting until Thursday before I put down a nickel towards playoff tix or next year’s deposit, I guess I won’t have to wait that long..what a slap in the face not only to Amare, but all of us Suns fans..shame on you Robert Sarver.
by jma67 on Feb 14, 2010 11:49 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Sounds like something Amaré would consider...
…in order to jump ship when Nash’ contract is up. In fact, if I were Amaré, that is exactly what I would want.
Exactly what I was thinking
Kerr/Sarver are timing a complete end to the D’Antoni-era Suns when Nash leaves. That’d be a great time for Stoudemire to leave, too. He’d be 30 and without Nash. However, Stoudemire probably realizes that too and wants a longer deal because of it.
That's it: There's no point supporting the Suns if Kerr and Sarver are running the show
They are playing the fans here for chumps.
i think it’s a 2-year extension plus next year’s option. so he’d be a free agent at 30, which isn’t too bad. and to be fair, the diaw contract was signed in a different economy and without the threat of a new CBA. so i dont think he should take it too hard…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 15, 2010 9:12 AM MST up reply actions
Since the new CBA is coming soon that could screw over every existing contract, what a 2 year contract extension is is smart…Amare’s self importance aside, he’s not worth as much as he thinks he is.
by jemagee on Feb 15, 2010 11:20 AM MST up reply actions
Cmon man,
You cannot think anyone would look at that as a serious offer..and how do you think that’s gonna go over in that locker room, those guys will say ‘if they’re doing Amare like that, what’s gonna happen when its our turn to talk $..hell, even Grant Hill got the same contract length and HE’S 36! If you’ve been listening to all Nash’s interviews, the front office has been selling him this story about how they can’t afford a max deal. How do you think he’ll react when he sees what they actually offered Amare? Jesus, JD has already started a Twitter campaign to keep Amare..I’m tellin you, other players around the league talk, and they’ll get wind of this ‘offer’ real quick, that’s sure to lure a big time free agent (note the sarcasm.)
by jma67 on Feb 15, 2010 12:11 AM MST via mobile reply actions
Too much here to try to cherrypick quotes from, but looks like everyone's pretty much sure that Amare's gone by Thursday, and CLE looks like his new future home.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-stoudemiresuns021410&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I don't want Barbosa to go
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/13214/is-cleveland-big-enough-for-amare-and-shaq
On Sunday, ESPN.com’s Chris Broussard reported that the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Phoenix Suns had seriously discussed a trade that would send Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland for J.J. Hickson (and the expiring contract of Zydrunas Ilgauskas). As Broussard reported, the Cavs had made the offer and the ball was in Phoenix’s court.
In the meantime, I’ve spoken to sources connected to the Cavs, the Suns and other teams around the league, and while they confirm that the Stoudemire trade discussions between Cleveland and Phoenix are at a serious stage, they also describe a fluid situation, with trade discussions taking place on multiple fronts.
Here is what I’m hearing as of early Monday:
For the Suns, the Stoudemire-Hickson trade would be something of a last resort. The Suns have been hoping to land more than just Hickson and financial relief for Stoudemire.
In particular, the Suns are still holding out hope that Philadelphia will come to the table and agree to a deal sending Andre Iguodala and Samuel Dalembert to Phoenix. The Suns have sweetened their offer to the 76ers by including Leandro Barbosa in a package with Stoudemire. Also possible is a three-way trade that would send Hickson and Barbosa (along with Ilgauskas) to Philly, Stoudemire to Cleveland and Iguodala and Dalembert to Phoenix.
Expect the Suns to turn up the heat significantly on the Sixers on Monday.
The Miami Heat remain very interested in Stoudemire and are trying to find a third team to help improve their offer to Phoenix. Though Amare is amenable to going to Cleveland, Miami is his first choice.
Meanwhile, Cleveland remain interested in obtaining either Antawn Jamison of the Washington Wizards or Troy Murphy of the Indiana Pacers. According to an official from one of those two teams, the Cavs said on Sunday that a Stoudemire trade was not a done deal and the team was still evaluating its options.
Even if the Cavs get Stoudmire, they might attempt do a secondary trade to obtain Jamison or Murphy to fill the need for a 4 who could stretch the floor with his shooting.
Given that the Cavs have concerns about well Stoudemire and Shaquille O’Neal would fit together, the team would consider moving Shaq if it acquired Amare. For instance, the Cavs could swap O’Neal and their first-round pick to Washington for Jamison and Mike Miller. They could send the same package to Indiana in a deal for Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.
One surprising note: According to a source, Amare’s agent has yet to be contacted by the Cavs. Since Stoudemire has an early termination clause in his contract, it’s possible that Cleveland is willing to acquire Stoudemire without assurances that he will stay with the Cavs beyond this season. Still, one should expect the Cavs to gather some sort of intel on Stoudemire’s wishes.
As has been speculated, if the Suns do acquire Ilgauskas, they would likely waive him, which would open the door for him to return to Cleveland after a 30-day wait.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I love our...
B-Rate Avatar actor too….but if it means we can get more than JJ Hickson we have to do it….We’ve gone almost all year without Barbosa and have faired fine…Iggy and Dalembert wont quite fill the void of Amare but it will be a lot better than just getting Hickson who is the most over-hyped 7.2 PPG 4.4 RPG 0.5 BPG player in the history of ever.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
im surprised adding barbosa is “sweetening” the offer. i thought the whole reason they were looking to trade iggy was to get some financial relief. barbosa doesn’t really provide that. and a barbosa/ lou williams backcourt makes me cringe.
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 15, 2010 9:14 AM MST up reply actions
Is Sarver pushing for the Cavs' deal to dump salary?
Most believe Sarver, who has had financial turmoil, is driving the Cavaliers’ scenario because a buyout of Ilgauskas’ $11.5 million expiring contract could get the Suns under the luxury-tax threshold.
One source said James even probed Stoudemire over a month ago on his willingness to play a supporting role with the Cavaliers. Apparently, James liked Stoudemire’s response. Whatever issues that Stoudemire and Shaq had playing together for a season and a half in Phoenix are resolved to the satisfaction of the Cavs.
Cleveland also is still considering deals for Washington’s Antawn Jamison(notes) and Indiana’s Troy Murphy(notes). Despite some speculation, the Cavaliers haven’t had any dialogue with the Detroit Pistons about a three-way deal that would result with Richard Hamilton(notes) coming to Cleveland, a league source said.
Neither Washington nor Indiana is sure how serious the Cavs are to make a deal for Stoudemire, or whether Cleveland GM Danny Ferry is just trying to pressure those teams into lowering their asking prices. Nevertheless, the idea that the Cavs would leverage Suns GM Steve Kerr to the deadline on Thursday and leave them stuck without a trade is unlikely. "Danny and Steve are best friends," said one league source who talks frequently to both of them. "He would not use Steve like that. No way."
Anybody on here...
Live in the Fountain Hills area and want to start a suicide pact if Amare get’s traded for this dump of a trade? It’s so sad to see your favorite sport franchise taking a dump on your star player and the fans for a guy who has been unfire in his last five games SCORING 13 POINTS AND 5 REB!!! Compared to Amare…The guy who can’t rebound is averaging a mere 27.1 and 11.6…That’s more than twice what Hickson is producing…
I need Tony Braxton and a bottle of wine.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
or as I like to call him, Daniel Plainview
Danny Ferry is going to drink your milkshake, DRINK IT UP.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
we're basically trading Amare
for a more athletic, overhyped Lou Amundson. That’s seriously what Hickson reminds me of. I would be tiny bit more excited if Hickson had more range than 3 feet…oh well, WIN SOME LOSE SOME…WELL, AS A SUNS FAN ALWAYS LOSE SOME.
"I don't care what people think, people are stupid."-Charles Barkley
I feel really bad for Hickson
He’s a pretty decent prospect, but if this trade goes down, he’ll unfairly be labeled as “the player the Suns traded Amare for” when that’s not true at all.
I think he’s a perfectly fine player to have starting at power forward. He likely won’t be as good as Amare, but not many forwards are. Our only solace is that we suck really bad next year and get a high draft pick to hopefully pick up our next ’franchise" player.
I really like Hickson on our team going forward, I just wish we were getting more out of this trade.
Well, presumably we're getting the Cavs' pick in this trade.
Even if it is in the bottom four. If we don’t, we’re really getting raped.
start the hassan whiteside/harrison barnes watch…
Banzai!
by Suns' Sensei on Feb 15, 2010 9:16 AM MST up reply actions
We all will be,,,
Just gonna be a lot of unhappy folks after this is sorted out….
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
When you think about it from Sarver's perspective, no other trade really ever stood a chance
We’re not even doing this for Hickson. We’re doing this for Z’s contract that’s A)expiring, B)already mostly paid for by Cleveland, and C)very likely to be bought out, thus saving Sarver even MORE money, getting us under the luxury tax line, turning us from a luxury tax payer to a luxury tax recipient.
Hell, I bet if he didn’t have fans to think about he wouldn’t even ask for HIckson since that would save him an extra million or two.
This is so, so stupid.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Too bad we can't trade Sarver...
A bag of balls, a half-baked owner and a decent janitor would make me happy..
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Eh we'll all get over this. We have to.
Hickson is a starting-level prospect even if he’s not a star-level prospect. We get under the salary tax for the first time in a long time. Next season will be harsh, yes, but we can take solace in (1) watching Dragic, Lopez, and Hickson develop further and (2) looking forward to the 2011 draft and which player we’ll take with our lottery pick.
I don't think Hickson is a starting level prospect though
Dude just gets garbage buckets. He’s a more athletic Lou Amundson.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Well, we can agree to disagree
While I hate “per 40 minute” stats, his “per 40 minute” stats are 15/9, which is starting level production. He’s only playing an average of 19.3 minutes a game right now.
It’s very unlikely he’s a star, but he can hold down the PF spot. We’ll have to look elsewhere to get that star power.
He does get most of his points through garbage buckets
But that’s mostly because he gets no plays called for him. He does have a post game, though.
Don't get me wrong
This isn’t at all close to the best trade out there. Just saying, Hickson, taken outside of the context of “trading away Amare and getting back Hickson”, is a fine player.
Dang it...Are we forever cursed...?
I just want us to win a Championship…Forever a cycle of getting close, but not close enough
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
Hard to win a championship when your management effectively trades Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire for JJ Hickson and a first round pick.
Oh, and a lot of DOLLA DOLLA BILLZ YO!
But who knows? Maybe “cash” will play amazing post defense and lead us to victory.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Why is a sign and trade this Summer out of the question?
It seems to me that Toronto will do that with Bosh this Summer so they can get some value back for him. Why would Phoenix not explore that possibility? Is it because Sarver wants to be under the Luxury Tax today, somehow I just don’t see that as being the motivation to get nothing for Amare. I know you guys will all probably disagree but I do not think that Sarver wants to completely destroy this franchise to save a couple million bux.
You have to hope Amare is amicable to it.
That’s the main problem. Also, a lot of teams will be like “Why should I trade assets away now, when I could just bid on him anyway?” If we trade him now, a team can secure him before other teams have a chance to go out for bid. In the summer, a sign-and-trade really only works for a team that’s already over the cap but wants to get Amare. There aren’t a lot of teams over the cap this summer that’d be looking to add Amare.
Your last point could be argued, I’m not sure where you came to that conclusion, I think your personal feelings about Amare led you to that point. Obviously Toronto sees value in a sign and trade which would net them the best deal for Bosh, I’m just not so sure that we won’t go that route as well. Just because our offer for Amare before the trade deadline was short of what he wanted does not mean we have to deal him. Of course we should low ball him to see if he bites and then proceed to see what we can get for him before we give a larger offer, its all a part of the negotiation. If Coro has the info on the Amare extension and he doesn’t have any info on the Cav’s deal yet, I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing much has been discussed.
The teams that are looking for a marquee player
Have cap space. Teams that don’t have cap space either (1) already have their marquee player, or (2) would be a team Amare wouldn’t agree to a sign-and-trade with. Toronto is possibly the ONLY example. Even then, Bosh can leave this summer, and then I believe they’re under the cap again.
Yeah, a team like the Warriors might like to get Stoudemire this summer, but he’s not agreeing to a sign-and-trade there.
Amare Stoudemire's trade value=Troy Murphy's trade value? WTF SARVER/KERR!
If Cleveland and Phoenix are unable to work out a deal, the Cavaliers reportedly have agreed to acquire Indiana forward Troy Murphy for Ilgauskas and Hickson. The team that picks up Ilgauskas would probably waive him, allowing him to go back to Cleveland in 30 days while providing salary-cap relief.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
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