Is This Phoenix Suns GM Steve Kerr's Last Stand?
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 15, 2010 4:00 PM MST
in Commentary
186 comments
While we await the Amare Stoudemire verdict, I wanted to bring up another potentially vital decision the Suns organization must make this Summer: whether to extend Steve Kerr's contract.
First a little history on Steven Douglas Kerr as it relates to his position in front office management for the Phoenix Suns.
In 2004, Kerr was included as a cog in a potential group of buyers that would purchase the Phoenix Suns from Jerry Colangelo for approximately $400 something million. Kerr's front office career with the Suns began as part of management, with an official title of consultant. He still worked as a TNT commentator and writer for Yahoo at the time.
(Insert Cliff Klaven voice): It is a little known fact that Steve Kerr provided his voice to EA Sports NBA LIve 06-10 video games along with Marvelous Marv Albert.
In June of 2007, Kerr quit his TNT and Yahoo gigs, signing a 3 year deal taking over as Suns President and General Manager. On Kerr's clock, from 2007 to present, the team has compiled a 132-85 record. Below, you can peruse Kerr's detailed track record:
2007 Draft
- Rudy Fernandez (Traded to Portland for cash)
- DJ Strawberry
- Alando Tucker
2007 FA Signings
2007 Transactions
- Traded Kurt Thomas and 2008, 2010 1st round draft picksto Seattle (OKC) for future second round pick and cash
2008 Transactions
- Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks for Shaquille O'Neal
- Signed Gordon Giricek
- Hired Terry Porter as head coach
2008 Draft
2008 FA Signings
2008 Transactions
- Traded San Antonio for draft rights to Goran Dragic in exchange for Malik Hairston
- Traded DJ Strawberry to Rockets for Sean Singletary
- Signed Goran Dragic
- Raja Bell, Sean Singletary, Boris Diaw traded to Charlotte for Jason Richardson, Jared Dudley and a 2010 second round pick
2009
During Season
- Fired Terry Porter, named Alvin Gentry head coach
- Signed Strowmile Swift
Offseason
- Signed Channing Frye
- Re-Signed Grant Hill
- Extended Steve Nash
- Signed Jarron Collins
2009 Draft
- Earl Clark
- Taylor Griffin
- Emir Preldzic (traded draft rights to Cleveland)
2009-2010 Season
- Traded Alando Tucker, a second round pick and cash to Minnesota for Jason Hart (waived)
- Signed Jarron Collins for the rest of the season
It's not an extensive body of work. Of course Kerr's tenure has only amassed two years and change. To delve further beneath the surface of these deals, here is a summary broken down into four different categories: Draft, Trades, FA Signings, and Coaching Hires and Fires.
Draft
Steve Kerr assumed GM duties on or around June 3, 2007. The draft occurred on June 28. I will not submit that Kerr had no say whatsoever, but it should be considered that while he was with the organization, he hadn't been on the GM job for that long. Nevertheless....
2007
The Suns had the 24th and 29th picks in this draft. With the 24th pick, Rudy Fernandez was selected and promptly shipped to Portland for cash. Obviously the fingerprints on this deal belong to Robert Sarver and Co.
With the 29th pick though, the Suns took Alando Tucker. Obviously that didn't work out so well. Tucker certainly had the college credentials that would lead one to believe he could work out at the NBA level. He broked Michael Finley's all time scoring mark at Wisconsin and collected a variety of awards including Big Ten Player of the Year in 2007 as well as first team All-American.
Looking back to see who the Suns could have selected in Tucker's stead, the biggest name I can find on the board is Carl Landry at #31 (first pick round 2). There are some other players that have stuck around the NBA-Glen Davis, Ramon Sessions, Marc Gasol. Of course Gasol may have been a gamble as he was playing in Spain and didn't make it to the NBA until 2008.
Tucker's time with the Suns was marred by injuries and ineffective play, all of which contributed to his lack of playing time, along with a sub-NBA game leaving him incapable of deseating any of the players ahead of him on the depth chart.
The next pick was D.J. Strawberry. He was touted as a defensive specialist. Unfortunately his offense was so bad, his defense never became much of a factor. Strawberry's choice was wishful thinking, but inevitably, like many 2nd rounders, a long shot to win a job and play in the NBA.
2008
The Suns had the 15th pick of the 1st round in 2008 which they obtained from Atlanta. Kerr went for the big man with an eye on defense, Robin Lopez. This was not a very popular pick at the time for a number of reasons. First and foremost was the fact that Kerr picked the least talented basketball player in the Lopez family. Brooke Lopez was the 10th pick for New Jersey. He had better collegiate numbers, he was better skilled, and posessed more upside than Robin.
Robin Lopez's college numbers were fair: 10 ppg, 5.7 rebounds, 53% FG, perhaps the numbers of a second unit role player, but was he worthy of a #1 pick? In addition, look at the names the Suns left on the board:
Marreese Speights
Roy Hibbert
Nicolas Batum
Darrell Arthur
J.J. Hickson
Kosta Koufos
Courtney Lee
George Hill
Donte Greene
Just to name a few. The jury is still out on virtually all of these players. That is, no one turned into a Kobe or LeBron immediately. Further, none of us know how things will play out from this draft. But we do know how Robin Lopez has been playing of late, and his development is very encouraging. If I have to rate the choice now, I give Steve Kerr a nice little golf clap for picking up Robin.
2009
With the 14th pick, Kerr selected Earl Clark, leaving names like Ty Lawson, Omri Casspi, Taj Gibson, and a large group of second rounders that have played well in their first season in the NBA. Again, the jury is still out on Clark. He's shown some flashes in limited minutes of being a valuable future cog in the Suns lineup. He's also played like a rookie, shooting at the wrong time and too often, becoming frustrated at the stress of learning two positions while dealing with very little game minutes.
While many of the 2009 picks have seen more court time: Tyreke Evans, Jordan Hill, Stephen Curry (just to name a few), Clark simply isn't ready to deseat Grant Hill or Jared Dudley at the 3 or Lou Amundson at the 4. I will say this: I understand why Clark was selected. He is very athletic, and he is freakishly long. If you have been watching every game this season, you can see the difference already, even though he plays very little. He is slowly becoming more aggressive, playing with more confidence. Once the IQ increases, along with the playing time and conditioning, (oh and the shot-let's stick with midrange for now, Earl), he could be a quality player for the Suns.
FA Signings
Kerr has had a fair amount of luck in this area. Grant Hill was an excellent pick up. Apart from being a high character, popular guy among his teammates, Hill has also enjoyed some good success on the court which is obviously a function of his health. Hill played in every game last season for the first time in years. The lauded Suns trainers and medical personnel can be credited to a high degree for Hill's health.
It looked as though Grant would leave the Suns last year after receiving numerous offers from serious title contenders. However, Kerr was able to come to his senses and extend him. This in turn helped in Steve Nash's extension. And with Goran Dragic still a question mark, and Jared Dudley a mostly second unit guy, it was the easy decision for Kerr to ink both Hill and Nash to reasonable deals.
Louis Amundson was a one dimensional journeyman in the NBA. His signing was a low risk endeavor, yet one that has produced high yield results. Pony boy has been a quality asset for the Suns, coming off the bench to crash the boards and play defense. He's the toughness the Suns typically lack, a high energy, consistent role player that rarely fails to accomplish his duties. Good signing, Steve Kerr.
Channing Frye was a surprise pick up to many. With many suitors milling about, Kerr swooped in to grab Frye, knowing his game was a nice match to the Suns up-tempo system. Through the first two months of the season, Frye proved a potent weapon from outside that opponents had a difficult time defending. But once the secret was out, defenses adjusted to Frye on the defensive end and attacked him and out-muscled him on the other end. As Frye continued to get pushed around, his shot began to falter. Frye has recently seen a bit of a resurgence in his game coming off the bench.
Still, Channing Frye came as advertised, so no one should be surprised that he can't rebound and he's soft on the defensive end. Still, an additional 120 3-pointers is a good addition to any team, especially for the Suns who have lost Leandro Barbosa's contribution from beyond the arc virtually all season. I give props to Kerr for the Frye signing.
There have been others: Gordon Giricek was a stretch run signing that would have worked better if Gordon would have made a few more threes. Stromile Swift was a also a roster filler in the absence of Amare. Brian Skinner was a nice, tough-guy-role-player for a season. His contribution wasn't significant, but neither was his playing time. Matt Barnes on paper looked like a good fit-3 point range, hard nose defensive specialist built in the Raja Bell mode. Of course by the end of the season Barnes was making us cringe every time he loaded up for an ill-advised three pointer. To my knowledge, no tears were shed after the season when he was not re-signed.
Trades
Here's where it gets a bit dicey for Steve Kerr:
- Let's get to it so we can try to forget about the Kurt Thomas trade to Seattle for a future conditional second-round pick. The dump left Suns with an $8 million trade exception and one less big man (leaving them with uh, none).
Said Kerr after the trade:
"We feel good going forward having our core group of players under contract for several years, including the recent addition of free-agent Grant Hill. The bottom line is there are tough decisions to make, but we have flexibility and our core together. We really like the group of players we've assembled and feel we can make a legitimate run for an NBA championship next season."
Championship? That's good. Funny.
- Next up: Shawn Marion. We loved him. We wanted him to stay. We even got a bit giddy several months back when we heard a rumor about him talking to Steve Kerr about a return to the valley. Of course he's a Maverick now. Shawn Marion for Shaq will go down in BSOTS history as the deal that established the Steve Kerr Moron Meter. If you weren't lurking around here to see it, you missed something very special....But let's get down to brass tacks here: Shawn Marion was ready to go. He wanted big money and he simply wasn't worth it. He was a great player, he was the glue that held the Suns together. The dirt worker who took on the toughest defensive assignments, and was left out of the play calling mix. Still, he was making great money and the fans loved him.
But Shawn got tired of it:
"I'm tired of hearing my name in trades. I love my fans in Phoenix but I think it's time for me to move on."
It was widely known that Marion pouted in the locker room and suffered from the "Whose the Man" syndrome. It was indeed time for him to go. Thing is, Steve Kerr traded him for Shaquille O'Neal. This was the moment many of us began to feel the cool Spring time breeze from the open window turn August hot then suddenly disappear. The window was closed, and the Steve Kerr hand print could be seen all over the Suns franchise:
"If it works, I'm a genius. If it doesn't, I'm a moron, I guess." -Steve Kerr
The trade marked the beginning of the sea change for the Suns. Soon Mike D'Antoni was out, Terry Porter in, and you remember the rest....
The clearest example of Steve Kerr's naivete as a general manager was assuming his team would respond to Terry Porter. Many people were interviewed for the Suns head coaching job, but Kerr was merely conducting his due diligence. Terry Porter was his pick and we all knew it early on. Porter was the hard ass who would whip the Suns into shape on D and instill that toughness designed to take out San Antonio once and for all not to mention any other WC softies in the way.
But the Porter hiring was a failure. The Suns were constructed of a veteran roster. One built to run and shoot. It was a team that liked their previous coach, the easy practices and his easy going demeanor. How would these guys go for a total philosophical change? From run and gun to toss it into the big guy and let him work. It was built to fail.
"It wasn't as exciting for the fans. It's not as fun for everybody (on the team). I'll always remember Phoenix with (previous coach) Mike (D'Antoni). We went from a winning team that was the most exciting team in the league to a half-winning team that wasn't exciting at all."
-Boris Diaw
As perhaps a show of support for Porter, Kerr shipped out two of the most vocal critics of Porter and his ideas: Raja Bell and Boris Diaw. The return, from Charlotte, Jason Richardson and Jared Dudley, were seen as additions that could both revive a bit of the 7SOL fast paced excitement while also adding a scrappy, defensive edge the Suns were lacking.
I'm partial to call this trade a wash. Richardson has shown signs of offensive brilliance and has good size to defend a two. But he needs the ball more to create his rhythm from the field. He simply doesn't get it in Phoenix. Further, what the numbers fail to capture is Richardson's somewhat frail psyche. Dudley on the other hand is young, cheap, and plays both ends of the floor. Diaw continues to play like he did here-INCONSISTENTLY and Raja Bell has played 6 games this season, a shadow of his former self. The only huge problem with this deal as it stands now is Richardson's contract. Maybe Kerr can rectify that soon.
We can criticize Steve Kerr for some of his moves as GM, but we should also consider how he reacts once he realizes he's made a mistake. These go in no particular order:
- Fired Terry Porter: That was a good day for many of us. No offense to Terry, but 28-23 and miserable players playing uninspired basketball sucks to watch and be a fan of.
- Replaced Porter with player favorite Alvin Gentry-The player's choice who promised to open up the offense. A good day for many of us fans and Suns players
- Traded Shaq for buyouts and a draft pick-The experiment didn't work. Shaq clogged the lanes and slowed up Nash from creating. Whispers spoke of a Shaq/Amare fued not to mention Nash's control over the Suns front office. Either way, Shaq had to go. Perhaps the Suns could have gotten more in return, but to rid themselves of O'Neal's presence and contract was worth a slightly dismal return.
Cut to now....This moment, whatever moment we happen to read this: Steve Kerr is now pondering what could be the biggest decision of his career as GM:
What to do with Amare Stoudemire?
Steve Kerr will not let Amare walk away for nothing. It's bad business. Part of GM: 101. If he has no choice but to trade him or let him walk, he must trade. With an aging roster with plenty of holes to fill, picking up young talent, draft pick(s) and creating space to go after some FA talent this off-season must be a priority in any deal. That means conceding the rest of the season. Many Suns fans will be very displeased at the prospect.
Many of us accept the fact that this team as constructed will be lucky to get into the playoffs. Even if the Suns could make a push or at least maintain they aren't going to go far. Yes the revenues generated by playoff sales is a nice bonus, but would it make a significant difference if the Suns didn't have home court advantage or if they went one and out? To the point, what does going to the playoffs actually do for the Suns this season other than keep some of us engaged a bit longer and give others delusions that this team has a chance to do some damage in the WC?
So, I put it to you Suns fans, what do you think of Steve Kerr?
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I really hate a lot of the moves that've gone on the past few years
But I have this feeling that they were dictated by Sarver and his “fiscal responsibility” more than Kerr. I’m iffy on Steve.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
good point
I really wonder how many moves Kerr had to make because of Sarver wanting to save money. ex. draft picks given up for cash, kurt thomas hoopla, etc…..I also don’t think that sarver is cheap but he has made some ‘questionable’ dumps to get $, but yet we have or had one of the highest payrolls in the league go figure
I like that Kerr is willing to take a risk if the team needs it
like when he traded for Shaq, it was a risk but if it had paid off…
Kerr was in panic mode becos of the Gasol trade
Mavs trade is a good example of a good trade that improves the team with young or proven players
It might have even worked
if Amare hadn’t gone down last year. It seemed like they were starting to figure it out.
132-85
with Steve Nash and Amare on the roster, that is unacceptable. Kerr wanted the team to change styles and brought in the wrong coach. He also traded Marion and brought in the blob. 132-85 just doesn’t cut with a talent like Steve Nash on your team, they were fine before Kerr
We never should have let the kid go to Canada
Steve Kerr is a terrific announcer and writer, and I miss him in those roles … because sadly he has been a total failure as a GM
by quid pro quo on Feb 16, 2010 1:24 AM MST up reply actions
132-85
Is a shade under 60% — a touch under 50 games per season. How many are clamoring to move Amare?
His coaching decision was a disaster, but he quickly rectified that.
It is simply too early to tell with him — regardless of Amare. We have to wait until, at a minimum, the end of next year to know how its been. Coaches and players can deliver immediate results from which to judge their performance. A GM takes time
Mmmmm ... Guinness
I agree
His eye for talent in drafts is worth his price of admission alone, all of Kerr’s trades have been great ideas unfortunately you can’t teach an old dog (Suns offense) new tricks
- 1000: Stop trying to white wash Kerr's history with the team.
Any donkey can make draft picks if the scouts provide good reports on prospects. -1； Dragic and Lopez are still role players who are still in work progress. They are not star players.
Kerr’s trades have been incredibly bad ideas and as an Ex-Spur, he surprisingly succeeded in weakening the Defence of the Suns:
1] Dumping Kurt Thomas and picks: He signed off as the GM and the Spurs made us pay in the play-offs by using KT
2] Marion to Shaq: Trading our best defender to someone who does not play D, clogs up the passing lane and only plays well in half courts.
The Shaq trade was a mid-season panic trade in response to the Gasol trade
3] Diaw-Bell trade: Trading our remaining perimeter D and flexibility for indiff offence and scrappy scrub play. Diaw and Bell played well last season for Charlotte, much better than what we got from our players then. If they still played here, our med team can ensure they stayed healthy
4] Shaq for 2 expirings with no picks.
Only someone living in his own world would say that Kerr’s trades are great ideA. BECAUSE REALITY SAYS OTHERWISE.
We were the best team in the West who almost knocked out the Spurs in the West semi’s before Kerr showed his brilliance…
#4 is a bad deal - we traded off a good rehabbed centre for players we don't
want or need with no pick!
#3 was a good trade
would much rather have Dudley and J-rich then Boris and 5 mill in cap space
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Feb 15, 2010 8:26 PM MST up reply actions
What did they contend for?
Because last I checked, Charlotte didn’t make the playoffs last season. So…were they contending for a better lottery pick?
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 12:56 AM MST up reply actions
Charlotte's offense and D ran better with Diaw and Bell
and the team almost made the play-offs
Yeah, but then they shipped Bell off to GSW
This season, which, what does that say? If a lottery-bound team ships you out, then start to play better, apparently he wasn’t a big part of the rotation.
Though, I digress. We’re talking about Diaw. Charlotte fans are having the same frustrations as we had here. Too passive, not taking shots he should, etc.
I’m just glad to be rid of the headache. Diaw is a very, very talented player when he tries. But half the time, he’s a passive player who doesn’t play up to his potential (or his contract)
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 7:44 AM MST up reply actions
I really thought I would miss Diaw...
Then the thought of that French pastry-eating savant passing the ball out when he’s wide open under the goal snaps me back to reality…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
I argue with all of your points
You have a completely different view of the Suns than do the rest of us, to be completely honest there was no hope in my mind we would ever get past SA in the playoffs and other teams were getting better at that time something had to be done we were build as a great regular season team but not much else.
- was not Kerr FYI I’m not sure what world you live in but a salary dump is not a GM’s decision.
Marion sucked man as you can see he has never amounted to anything, and we weren’t going to win anything with Marion as the 3rd option we lost how many times in a row to the Spurs in the playoffs, something needed to be shaken up and I’m not sure if Kerr could have executed any better than he did. To trade off an undersized PF for the best center of all time who produced incredibly for the Suns but unfortunately didn’t fit here.
Bell was washed up and Boris should have played in teh WNBA—- I would have traded Boris and Bell for JDudley alone.
I think you need to relax you are so paranoid that Kerris a spy sent by San Antonio to destroy the Suns, the Spurs didn’t need to send anyone here to help them beat Phoenix they did that enough on their own.
20/20 hindsight.
No one knew who Dudley was when we made the trade. Even you have to admit that.
And Marion didn’t suck. He was such an integral part of our team that, had we had Amare in the 2005-2006 season, we may have actually made a run at (or at least made it to) the Finals. The only problem with him was that he wanted more than he was worth. I have a bad feeling Stoudemire is doomed to the same way of thinking.
Why can’t players just realize that they have it good here? They’re playing with one of the greatest point guards of all time. They’re in a system that allows them to pad their stats. They’re in an atmosphere that is very player friendly. They should be bending over backwards to try and stay here as long as possible, so long as both sides are willing to be fair.
If the organization lowballs the player, by all means, leave (see: Joe Johnson). But if the player wants more than the organization (and league) knows he’s worth, that’s all on them.
What’s happened to Marion since he’s been gone. A shadow of himself during those 7SOL years. It’s all a matter of the system, and if only we could not have to deal with egos, we could make it over the hump, I think. Unfortunately, the con to our system is, it’s very conducive to creating egos.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:01 AM MST up reply actions
A salary dump is a GM's decision and Kerr is also minority owner
Bell and Diaw played well for Charlotte last season.
Stop trying to whitewash Sun’s history by rewriting what Kerr did and by creating a false picture of Marion’s contributions, who was an integral part of Suns success. Bell and Marion provided much needed perimeter D and 3-point shooting to provide spacing.
Diaw provided playmaking and was even able to cover for Nash when he was out in his second MVP season and he was even able to cover Amare. Diaw also played well in Sun’s last play opff series against the Spurs.
Without Marion, our interior and perimeter defence suffered and we lack 1 more shooter to provide spacing. Hence we had to try to get Brent Barry and later Gricek to replace Marion.
Seriously, I find your memory at fault.
Btw, I am replying to SSOHOWARD, not iamtrevorpaxton
I love the Suns team members very much as they all played important roles…
Yeah, I saw that the reply was his
Thanks for the clarification, though
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 7:44 AM MST up reply actions
I think you guys are giving Marion more credit than is due. We turn players into high powered offensive weapons—- marion—- who then leave for more money, its totally a product of our system we need to realize that and accept that.
As for Marions true talent: there isnt much there other than a good defensive player. He was a player who couldn’t be counted on for any of the offensive load. He was set up or got a loose ball for every basket he got. You mentioned a shooter who can space the floor, I cringed ever time he jacked up a 3, he needed to be crashing the glass every possession not jacking up t-rex looking 3’s. There’s a reason he has only attempted 10 3’s this year with Dallas.
Unfortunately it will take Amare leaving to see his true offensive talent, but I can tell you that he will still get his 20+ a night, maybe not shooting at 55% because that is ridiculous but at least Amare has the talent on the offensive end to produce with or without Nash. Thats more than I can say for 90% of our players, Marion, Bell, Dudley etc…
－１：Ｓｕｎｓ ｎｅｅｄｅｄ Ｍａｒｉｏｎ ａｓ ｍｕｃｈ ａｓ ｉｔ ｎｅｅｄｅｄ ｔｈｅ ｔｅａｍ
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Ｔｈａｔ＇ｓｗｈｙ Ｋｅｒｒ ｈａｄ ｔｏ ｇｏ ｉｎｔｏ ａ ｐａｎｉｃ ｍｏｄｅ ｂｙ ｔｒｙｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｓｉｇｎ Ｂｒｅｎｔ Ｂａｒｒｙ ｆｒｏｍ ｔｈｅ Ｓｐｕｒｓ ａｆｔｅｒ ｈｅ ｗａｓ ＂ｔｒａｄｅｄ＂，ｗｈｉｃｈ ｗａｓ ｆｕｎｎｙ ｂｅｃｏｓ ｅｖｅｒｙｏｎｅ ｋｎｅｗ ｈｅ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｒｅｓｉｇｎ ｗｉｔｈ ｔｈｅ Ｓｐｕｒｓ．
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I don’t think anything you said is a valid argument for anything I said, Marion was a horrible 3 point shooter, our defense and rebounding improved. The point of getting Shaq was to guard C’s in the playoffs, Marion could not do that neither could Amare. Shaq grabbed almost 11 boards a game with us and Amare was well over 9. So I’m not sure how you made these assertions.
Ｍａｒｉｏｎ ｓｐａｃｅｄ ｔｈｅ ｆｌｏｏｒ ａｎｄ ｏｕｒ ｄｅｆｅｎｃｅ ｄｉｄ ｎｏｔ ｉｍｐｒｏｖｅ
Ｉｆ ｎｏｔ， ｗｅ ｗｏｕｌｄｎ＇ｔ ｈａｖｅ ｔｏ ｍａｋｅ ａ ｆｏｏｌ ｏｆ ｏｕｒｓｅｌｖｅｓ ｔｒｙｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｇｅｔ Ｂｒｅｎｔ Ｂａｒｒｙ．
Ｂｔｗ， Ｍａｒｉｏｎ ａｎｄ Ａｍａｒｅ ｈａｓ ｇｕａｒｄｅｄ ｃｅｎｔｒｅｓ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｐｌａｙ－ｏｆｆｓ．Ｎｏｔ ｔｏｏ ｓｕｒｅ ｉｆ ｙｏｕ ｈａｖｅ ｂｅｅｎ ｆｏｌｌｏｗｉｎｇ ｔｈｅｉｒ ｇａｍｅｓ ａｔ ａｌｌ．
Ｔｒｙｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｗｈｉｔｅｗａｓｈ Ｍａｒｉｏｎ＇ｓ ｃｏｎｔｒｉｂｕｔｉｏｎｓ ｔｏ ｔｈｅ ｔｅａｍ， ｅｓｐｅｃｉａｌｌｙ ｉｎ ｔｅｒｍｓ ｏｆ ｓｐａｃｉｎｇ， ｄｅｆｅｎｃｅ ａｎｄ ｒｅｂｏｕｎｄｓ， ｉｓ ｒｅａｌｌｙ ａｎ ａｂｊｅｃｔ ｓｈｏｗ ｏｆ ｕｎｇｒａｔｅｆｕｌｎｅｓｓ．
Kerr did not quickly rectify the Porter hiring. He tried to white wash it by trading aware
an important core of the team i.e. Bell and Diaw. As a result our perimeter D, sucks and our rotation has less flexibility becos Diaw can make plays without Nash.
That Kurt Thomas trade was the worst of them all, but I believe that was more Sarver’s doing than Kerr’s. The reason why I believe it was the worst move was because that season we really needed his presence in the paint. We were 37-16 in 1st place at the time we traded Marion for Shaq. Most of those 16 losses were to the West top teams though and a majority of the sports annalists believed we just didn’t have a roster built to win it all. The main reason why we lost to those top teams during that stretch was because we had no inside presence. We shot better than them, but they would take 20 more shots than us and out rebound us by 10-20 boards. Our rebounding wasn’t that bad the year before. I’m sorry, but Skinner just wasn’t going to cut it. Grant Hill was a good addition, but he was all for nothing because we traded Kurt. I believe if we had him than our 37-16 record would have been a bit better and the Shaq trade would have not happened. Keeping Kurt for that season along with Marion and the addition of Hill would have given us one last TRUE run at an NBA Championship. That is why it was the worst move. Thanks Sarver.
Overall, I think Kerr has done a decent job considering his inexperience and not so NBA smart, boss. I would give him a C, but if he messes up with this Amar’e situation than I think he needs to go.
Didn’t we trade Kurt to get room to sign Shaq? How can you call that a bad move? We were playing for the championship and not our future that year, but when given the chance its not the worst move— you see cleveland in that position right now foregoing all future to win now. There was no way we would have won a championship with Marion as the 3rd guy, we tried it for years.
the problem w/ the KT move
was the timing
I totally agree that the Suns shouldn’t have paid KT $8m + another $8m in tax but by moving him early in the season they had to pay the Sonics 1st rd picks. Just a few months later the Sonics got a 1st rd pick when they traded him to the Spurs.
Now, could the Suns have held on to KT and traded him at the deadline and gotten value for his $8m expiring contract and still saved that money? Probably not b/c the Sonic were under the cap and didn’t have to send back matching contracts while the Spurs sent Brent Barry and Francisco Elson to make the salaries match.
So, basically the Suns sold KT and two first round picks to save $16m
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 15, 2010 5:41 PM MST up reply actions
Well we still needed the cap room to do so, so I can see why that trade is horrible in your eyes, but if we had made it to the promise land you wouldn’t be complaining right now. We sold our future for a championship and failed, at least we had the opportunity at a championship.
Sort of
We didn’t have cap space when we took on Shaq but you could argue that the money saved from the KT dump off-set the added expense of taking on Shaq but it wasn’t a direct path
Blogging Suns Basketball . twitter: @sethpo
by Seth Pollack on Feb 15, 2010 5:59 PM MST up reply actions
"Traded Kurt Thomas and 2008, 2010 1st round draft picksto Seattle (OKC) for future second round pick and cash "
It was a rubbish move made purely for financial reasons and not basketball reasons. It was clearly sarver’s doing not Kerr’s.
With those picks OKC have built themselves a nice little team, and will get to expand on it again this summer, especially if we trade Amare and end up in the lottery.
In the event that we are in the lottery, i hope the PHX pick wins the lottery, and ends up with a #1 for OKC, it would teach Sarver a lesson he would not forget and stop him from trading away our future picks.
I think you can also blame Coach D for trading away all our picks. He said he won’t play or teach the rookies( in less that rookie is Italian and a son of Coach D’s friend).
You can blame Rondo on D'Antoni but not Rudy
Rudy wasn’t even coming over until the next season. He was going to be stashed in Europe so there were no basketball OR financial concerns with drafting him right then. Sarver just wanted his 3 million dollars and we lost James Jones in the process.
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
Not sold on Rudy but wish we can trade for Bayless
Btw, apologise for the crazy font. I’m typing on a Chinese language PC.
Dun ask me why. Long story.
Yeah Rudy Fernandez isn't anything in the NBA
who cares that we lost him, we didn’t sell Rondo for cash we traded picks so it could have gone either way. Point is we traded picks and everyone says what if we hadn’t… blah blah we probably wouldn’t have drafted Rondo in the first place if we knew the pick was for us.
Yes they will, and i will be one of them.
But if it teaches our head office not to trade away 1st round draft picks so easily then it will be worth the pain.
Please sir, no more pain. I think Suns fans suffer the most
We have to see our beloved team dismantled piece by piece via fire sales for breadcrumbs, stale peanuts and scrubs over the last few years…
Every team has their regrets
The ghost of Darko will haunt Detroit forever.
Had the Lakers not been able to turn
Kwame Brown into Pau Gasol, they’d be haunted by Kwame as well.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:05 AM MST up reply actions
???
The picks amounted to:
B.J. Mullens (traded for draft righs to Rodrigue Beaubois + future 2nd rounder).
That is it so far.
You really telling me that B.J. Mullens is the player that puts OKC on the map?
by MMotherwell on Feb 15, 2010 10:24 PM MST up reply actions
Tricky situation I guess.
“We sold our future for a championship and failed” No, you see I have it the other way around; we did that when we traded Kurt.
Oh well, what can we do? Our front office has made bad moves by overpaying guys in the first place which got us into all these messes. We just have to sit back and deal with it.
Thats ridiculous to say Kurt Thomas was our key to a championship, give me a break man Kurt Thomas wasn’t the piece that would have put us over the top. Its Kurt freaken Thomas..
If we didn’t move him than the Shaq trade would have not happened. Plus, remember who signed Kurt Thomas later that season? Remember how he helped foul out Shaq, so Duncan could have it easy?
Role players can make a difference. I’d rather take Marion and Kurt over Shaq.
＋１：Ｋｕｒｔ ｗａｓ ａｂｌｅ ｔｏ ｕｓｅ ｈｉｓ ｋｎｏｗｌｅｄｇｅ ｏｆ ｏｕｒ ｔｅａｍ
ｔｏ ｈｅｌｐ ｔｈｅ Ｓｐｕｒｓ ｋｎｏｃｋ ｔｈｅ Ｓｕｎｓ ｏｕｔ ｏｆ ｔｈｅ ｐｌａｙ－ｏｆｆｓ．
LOL
there is the conspiracy again, well I tell you if the Suns can’t change their playbook or play calling from year to year it doesn’t take Kurt Thomas to tell our secrets, you bet that other teams are watching film and already know anything KT could have shared.
We went at the SA series the same way every single time we played them and always lost. Why was our game plan never adjusted ???
Because Coach D was too stubborn. We were never really out played by the Spurs in a series, but we were out coached. Plus, the fact that we were always undermanned helped the Spurs win.
So were they
I can remember 2 series Ginoboli was hurt. I totally agree that we got out coached, that is my point to magenta KT didn’t need to share secrets, the Spurs knew what was coming ever single game. !! It never changed!!
KT still hurt us by flopping which lead to Shaq and Amare getting in foul trouble. The last thing they needed was another flopper.
haha very true
the thing i never understood when we played them in the series where they played hack a shaq for 10 straight possessions why we never coached that differently. I forget the dude on SA but they had an aweful foul shooter at C I dont know why we didn’t play that game back with them. The league would have watched it slow down the game so much so they would have made a rule about it, problem solved.
There is no conspiracy - KD played a part in getting us knowcked out by the Spurs
That’s reality and it happened. Without KT, we lack a big man who could guard Duncan one to one. KT also knows our team inside out.
This is basic common sense. Losing KT and having him traded to the Spurs is not just bad karma but helped our Suns got kicked out of the Spurs.
Seriously, your memory is at fault here.
KT move is on Kerr as much as Sarver as Kerr is GM and part owner
So he is hardly an unthinking flunky of Sarver.
Yes they did...
And, never having had $16 million dollars, heck, never even having had ONE, I can’t fault that. I truly can’t.
I know I am alone in this, but that trade probably enabled Sarver to justify this teams payroll which, given the current climate, is way expensive.
by MMotherwell on Feb 15, 2010 10:19 PM MST up reply actions
No, we traded Kurt
Before training camp & replaced him w/ Brian Skinner, but the biggest thing, obviously, was the 2 1st round picks. While Sarvers fingerprints are all over this, its unfathomable that any GM with a shred of sense wouldn’t of gotten lottery protection on those 1st rounders..oh, and we tried to get KT back, unfortunately SA beat us to it, then he played a major role in them beating us in the playoffs..God its been painful to be a Suns fan these last couple years, and this Amare trade will be the final kick in the balls.
by jma67 on Feb 15, 2010 10:40 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Did I?
We haven’t had the 2010 draft yet. Maybe I’m stilling missing it….But wouldn’t you draft Taylor Griffin every year? I sure as heck would.
Blogging Suns Basketball. Twitter: @willcantrellphx
by Wil Cantrell on Feb 15, 2010 7:47 PM MST up reply actions
Hell, I'd draft him late first round.
He’s proven to be SO valuable to the team.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:09 AM MST up reply actions
I just wanted to point out one thing abour Marion
“I’m tired of hearing my name in trades. I love my fans in Phoenix but I think it’s time for me to move on.”
By trying to shop him every season, no player in their right mind will want to stay with the team. That’s not a Marion decision. That’s a management decision to let him know that he’s not part of their long term plans, regardless of his contributions.
No player can play well nor behave like a good team player in the locker room with such nonsense.
That’s the bad thing about the management regime under Sarver. It is neither transparent nor sincere and the way they do things do not help the team in any way.
Even Nash has concerns about them trying to mix things up by throwing new people into the mix even when the team has found its rhythmn…
Amar'e, or whoever tweets for him, is getting in on the twitter action
@Amareisreal I play very well with Shaq. I adverage more pts last year WITH him an played better D.You guys can stop saying we don’t play well together.
He must be referring to the last 29 games in the 07-08 season under Coach D. Coach Porter was the reason Amar’e didn’t look good playing with Shaq.
I'm having visions of Carl Landry vs. Dirk Nowitzki
And I don’t like it
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:09 AM MST up reply actions
+ 1 Beavis: Porter ran 2 out of 3 plays through Shaq which boosted his trade value
And we got stale peanuts in return for trading him to the Cavs…
I totally agree Bevis
I think a full season with a decent coach with Amare and Shaq and we could have done great things, that team had too many ways to win with that lineup.
Unfortunately we will just keep blaming Shaq or Amare for their crappy D, I can’t wait until these kids start talking bad about Lopez’s D when Amare is gone, you know its going to happen unless he can average 25 blocks a game.
Like I said before, I would’ve rather had Marion and Kurt over Shaq to help give us one more run, but since we that didn’t happen and we got Shaq; I don’t think Porter was the right Coach. Perhaps Gentry could have done better last year with both Shaq and Amare in the lineup?
WOW that is a bold statement, whats the old adage about how : you can fail repeatedly without making changes before you are considered an idiot. Man we saw how far Marion and KT could bring us, and truthfully it was far considering those two guys aren’t very good, which gives Nash more justification for his MVP trophies. If he could get Marion 20+ ppg with that t-rex looking shot, that man is something special.
The point was if they wanted to make one last run at an NBA Championship they should have kept the 07 team that lost to the Spurs because of the suspensions and just improve on that.
All they had to do was replace Hill with James Jones and the 07-08 Suns become better than the 06-07 Suns. Instead they moved Kurt which lead to getting Shaq and losing Marion in the process which lead to dumping Shaq which lead to signing Fyre. Wow, we really traded Marion and Shaq for Fyre.
Yeah but it wasn't even that we needed to get past SA
LA just got Pau, Dallas got Kidd, and to be completely honest I was so sick and tired of Duncan single handedly dismantling us there was nobody on our squad -— not even Kurt Thomas who could guard Duncan which is what Shaq was supposed to be for.
Too be honest with you I think we could have beaten LA and made the Finals because they were without Bynum. I doubt we could have beaten Boston though, but we would have put up a better fight than LA did that year. Well, it doesn’t really matter anymore; its all in the past.
To be honest and this is not all on Kerr...I've been questioning
Managements wheeling and dealing since ‘04…I mean the only splashes we have made was signing Nash and Hill…everything else has been minor to down right dumb IMO…sorry, but picking up scrappy players like Lou and Dudley were ok moves, but the league is full of scrappy guys, so I think those were just ok pick ups…James Jones was a diamond in the rough for us…he played well on both ends…that’s was a splash, but we GAVE him away, gave KT away, gave Shaq away, now we about to give Amare away…I will always be a Suns fan, but this season could be the start of some dark days and we can’t just tank it cause OKC got our 1st…so I think Kerr and Sarver are real life HOMER SIMPSON and PETER GRIFFIN, just not as smart as the cartoon guys
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 8:14 PM MST via mobile reply actions
+ 1000; Thanks for saying what I feel here as a Suns fans
But cut Homer some slack as he’s the face of one of my favourite franchise on TV.
Homer may lack brains but he got soul.
Sarver? Nada.
:(
sad face
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
bro don't be down we can rollout a lineup like this in 2 years
PG-Dragic
SG-JJ Reddick (we love guys named JJ
SF-Dudley
PF-JJ Hickson
C- RoLO
ok I will join u in that sad face :-(
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 8:27 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
ron_dasun
I think you are missing the big picture, these guys weren’t chased away by Phoenix -- James Jones, Tim Thomas etc.. these were guys under short contracts that were cheap, when their stats went up mainly 3 point shooting they bailed for more money. Thats why you never hear of them again when they leave PHX, its the same thing as the Frye situation, there is no way he picks up his option he can get 5+ a year now that he is one of the best 3 point shooters in the game -— because now he sees 5 open looks from 3 a game.
Point is PHX needs to keep the faith and sign these cheapo players to a big longer deals than these 1 year + player option deals.
KT was unfortunate to get rid of he sucked but there was no point in giving away 2 picks as well, that is unforgivable.
Ok fine, does that put us over the top?? No. I think that the Shaq trade was absolute genius if we only had a competent coach who had some creativity to run the offense, the Nash-Do-All approach is great but there could be much more to it than that.
Well, I thought the Shaq trade would either make or break us. A better coach would have helped, but I just don’t think Nash and Shaq would work. See Amar’e didn’t have a problem playing with Shaq, but Nash did. Shaq clogged up the lanes and that messed up some of his game.
Yes
but Lebron needs a lane in Clevland and he’s adjusted fine. Plus Nash plays 30 min a game that leaves 18 min for the offense to run through Shaq and a handful where they can learn to play together.
Actually Howard Tim Thomas was the only guy that signed somewhere else...Ja
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 10:33 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Actually Howard Tim Thomas was the only guy that signed somewhere else...James Jones, Shaq, KT were traded for basically nothing
Like they are about to do with JJ Hickson….I mean seriously JJ Hickson…like so many others have said…we could have gotten the 5 pt 3 rb .5 blks monster as a toss in in the Shaq deal…now we giving up Amare for this clown…imagine if Toronto traded Bosh for Dorrell Wright…that doesn’t make sense right
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 10:42 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not so sure why everyone is convinced that the trade with Cleavland is whats going to happen
If it was going to happen it would have happened already, there was no word out of PHX or anything leaked yet.
Colangeo built this team and Sarver has slowly been tearing it apart piece by piece until Nash is asking for a trade.
We need to start a grassroots campaign
BRING JERRY BACK!
Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."
I don't care.
Either.
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:11 AM MST up reply actions
Yes, but if he's president
He still has some say in the personnel decisions. Which, I think Sarver is willing to shell out the dolla dolla bills (yo), he just has to be sure that he’s not giving out free money to players who don’t deserve it. And with the eye for talent/basketball sense that Colangelo has, he could help soothe Sarver (and his wallet).
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 7:47 AM MST up reply actions
Me, I don't weant sarver running any part of Phoenix basketball...
The man may be a shrewd financier, but he dorks up everything he touches basketball wise…He luck into Jared Dudley through trying to shed Diaw’s odious contract…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
How do you know he lucked into it?? I think what really happened is he unlucked into JRich going down hill athletically. I don’t love JRich’s contract but I hated Diaw’s
SSOHOWARD...I get your point!
But X 3 still doesn’t make me change my mind… (Smile, I know it was a accident…!)
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
＋１： Ｉ ｔｈｉｎｋ ｈｅ ｌｕｃｋｅｄ ｉｎｔｏ ｉｔ ｔｏｏ
Ａｎｄ ｔｈｅ ｍａｉｎ ｅｍｐｈａｓｉｓ ｗａｓ ｔｏ ｄｕｍｐ Ｄｉａｗ＇ｓ ｓａｌａｒｙ ｅｖｅｎ ｉｆ ｉｔ ｃａｍｅ ａｔ ｔｈｅ ｅｘｐｅｎｓｅ ｏｆ ｄｕｍｐｉｎｇ ｏｕｒ ｒｅｍａｉｎｉｎｇ ｐｅｒｉｍｅｔｅｒ ｄｅｆｅｎｄｅｒ．．．
Bell wasn’t the perimeter defender he once was, the dude was 33 when we traded him, Larry Brown is a defensive minded coach who didn’t play Bell so obviously something was not right, Bell was once a very goo defender, Hill as well but age really slowed these guys.
Ｈｅ ｓｔｉｌｌ ｐｌａｙｅｄ ｂｅｔｔｅｒ Ｄ ａｎｄ ｈｅｌｐｅｄ ｓｐａｃｅｄ ｔｈｅ ｆｌｏｏｒ ｗｉｔｈ ３ｓ
Ｔｏ ＬＢ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｌａｓｔ ｓｅａｓｏｎ， Ｂｅｌｌ ｗａｓ ａ ｇｏｄｓｅｎｄ ｔｏ ｔｈｉｓ ｄｅｆｅｎｃｅ－ｏｒｉｅｎｔａｔｅｄ ｃｏａｃｈ．
Which I really do hope Nash does ask for a trade. I don’t want Nash to spend his last few seasons in a rebuilding process.
+ 1: I don't want to waste his years. He'll be great for Orlando, Portland and Boston
Esp Orlando with players like Bass and Marcin for grabs
Nash and Howard would be like the Nash and #32Amar’e of old! I’d be a Magic fan. Don’t get me wrong, I’d still cheer for the Suns as well.
Traitor...yeah I'd secretly root for them 2
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 8:30 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
We will root for Orlando in the East and Suns in the West
And stick needles in voodoo dolls for the Fakers.
I wouldn't mind seeing that
I live about an hour away from Orlando, I could catch more games that way!
I actually like the Magic
Even moreso with their signing of VC. I don’t know why, but I definitely do not partake in the sipping of Haterade when it comes to Vince. I like the guy a lot.
That, and if Jameer Nelson were actually as good a point guard as people think he is (he’s decent, not what I’d want to have here in Phoenix, though), Howard would be throwing down alley-oops left and right. That would be a sight to behold. Imagine Nash running the pick and roll with Howard. How sick would that be?
Come to think of it…how about we try and lure Howard away from Orlando, once his contract’s up? Yeah?
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:14 AM MST up reply actions
How about this. Nash to Orlando for Nelson, Bass, Ryan Anderson and a 1st round pick(maybe 2). It works and I like it. All those players are good and young. The Magic would certainly do it considering how deep their team already is.
I went to the Suns/Orlando game earlier this season, I have never heard as much hatred in my life as I heard from fans there about Hill. There was violent curing when they called his name.
Yes that was it, he was the one who kept that franchise in the dirt for all those years, he had a huge contract but played 15 games a season. They were furious “HE PLAYS FOR US FOR HIS WHOLE CAREER AND DOESNT PLAY MORE THAN 20 GAMES A SEASON AND GOES TO PHOENIX AND PLAYS A FULL SEASON” LOL they were worse than magenta conspiracy theory about Kerr being a SA spy their conspiracy theory is that Hill was sent to destroy Orlando or something.
Haha, I bet he’d get hurt again, I tell you we have the fountain of life here even the Orlando Fans knew that.
But seriously I’d be the happiest man in the world if Nash got traded to Orlando, I may even get half season tickets
If Nash leaves the Suns I want him to go to the Magic. They would be the perfect team for them. They’re just like us only a little slower, but they still take a lot of threes and Howard could play the pick’n’roll with Nash. Getting Nash would make them better than any of our Nash\Suns teams. I think Nash could get them a Championship.
I'd love to see it
Howard might need a little polishing on his ball handling but he’d be a perfect candidate for pick and roll Nashty style, except he can’t pop so that makes it predictable for the defense… We might as well do a deal to sent both Amare and Nash there if we aren’t getting anything for Amare anyway, that way I can still have my Suns in Orlando.
Lol, I already tried it on the Trade machine. I couldn’t find a way to give them Nash, Hill and Stat without them giving up either Vince or Lewis who we wouldn’t want because they have huge contracts with 3-4 years still left on them.
May as well call us the Phoenix Magic, but
Here’s how to get Nash, STAT, and Hill over to Orlando without having to move Howard, Carter, or Lewis. Only problem is, they can only play 6 players.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykafsvs
Bright Side of the Sun, for all things Phoenix Suns. Twitter: @iamtrevorpaxton
by iamtrevorpaxton on Feb 16, 2010 1:19 AM MST up reply actions
and JJ Reddick cause we love guys named JJ?
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 8:36 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Alright, Nash and Hill to the Magic for Nelson, Anderson, JJ and Johnson to go along with picks. The last two are expiring contracts. I just figured that we wouldn’t need Bass if we get Hickson from Cleveland and resign Amundson.
Nelson is 28 years old with about an 8M contract for 3 years. He be a replacement for just a little while(until Goran is ready) than we could trade him when he’s and expiring contract.
you know we are screwed right...I'm usually have lots of optimism
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 8:46 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
….yes.
I just think Nash would fit well in Orlando. I think he could get them over the hump because thats what the magic really lack, is a really good passing pg. The Magic are what we use to be only without a good pg.
Howard>Amar’e
LewisQ
Now replace Nelson with Nash and the current Magic are better than our 62-20 Suns of 05.
Yes BUT
With Nash playing his personal brand of D, Howard would rack up the fouls trying to defend the driving PG’s.
＋１ ｔｏ Ｃｈｕｃｋ６６７：Ｄｗｉｇｈｔ ｍａｙ ｇｅｔ ｂｌｏｃｋｓ ａｎｄ ａｌｔｅｒａｔｉｏｎｓ ｔｏｏ
Ｅｘｈｉｂｉｔ Ａ ： Ａｓｋ Ｒｏｓｅ ｗｈａｔ ｈａｐｐｅｎｅｄ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｇａｍｅ ｂｅｆｏｒｅ ｔｈｅ Ａｌｌ－Ｓｔａｒｓ＇ｗｅｅｋ ｅｎｄ．
Amazing the responses
So fire Kerr, Who is next in line? Will Gentry stay? So the new GM will just turn this team around in one year I am for sure. No draft pick next year, having to deal with the Amare situation, having to deal with the possible league unrest when the labor agreement runs out, and having to deal with Sarver. So yeah lets fire Kerr.
Sure the Thomas trade was horrible. Marion wanted to stay in Phoenix as much as Polar Bear. Marion wanted huge money, and the Suns were not going to give to him.
Kerr has done OK, a C+
I would prefer if we gonna get rid pf everybody...just stock up on picks and try to get a young PG to groom
Hmmm maybe Collison from NO…Bayless from Portland….Augustine from Charlotte…I’d still try to pry Harris from New Jersey
by ron_dasun on Feb 15, 2010 10:55 PM MST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Curry from GSW.
and a big +1 on stacking draft picks.
The OKC method seems to be working out well for them….
Good or Bad
I will never forgive Kerr for trading away Marion. I’m sorry. That trade hurt more than my feelings.
I have an autograph Kerr card 7/50. Unlike many of my other cards, its for sale…or trade.
Portland just landed
Marcus Camby according to ESPN. Sooo in the last 2 days Dallas has traded for C Butler & Haywood, Portland has picked up Camby, and the Suns………are trying to trade their leading scorer and rebounder to save $! And listen, I don’t want to hear its because he won’t sign their ‘offer,’ if that’s the case what was their reasoning for shopping him last year? He was a year & a half from opting out? Finally, I hope all you Suns fans don’t kill Stat for not giving the Suns a ‘hometown discount,’ why would anyone do that for a team that hung a ‘for sale’ sign around their necks for 2+ years..I really wish I could force myself to dislike the Suns, Sarver doesn’t deserve our loyalty.
by jma67 on Feb 15, 2010 11:59 PM MST via mobile reply actions
A+++ Well said!
I remember some years back when Billy Hunter was systematically ruining the Sixers and I remeber the fans frustrations…Now I get the chance to experience the same tragedy…
"I especially liked the part where I dunked on the McDonalds All-American dude..."
Anonymous high-school player after a Virginia basketball state championship game...
+1000: Amare would accept less money if the Suns convinces him they want to contend
Not cut cost, which would mean he will see his signing as a pure dollars or cents issue.
If he knew that he needs to take less to get in right players or reward existing ones, he will take the heat. He does care about his teammates…
Heres the real reason we havent got over the hump.
Egos.
Marion and Stoudemire couldve co-existed beautifully but it was clear they were starting to whine about it. Marion kept complaining about being the “third option” and he magically disappeared in the playoffs. We got beat 3 times in a row in the playoffs. And we took a risk. But Marion was eventually gonna go somewhere anyway. Again, ego.
The shaq trade could’ve of potentially worked, if shaq could accept a being role player. Maybe come of the bench and control the offense more when Nash rests. But unfortunately we decided that year to have the most creative point guard in the league walk down the court and just pass it to shaq. I wanted to shoot myself in the face. Also I clearly remember Amare talking more and more about needing to become the focal point of the offense. Again egos.
Its a tough situation with Stoudemire. Lets be Honest, he is not a max player, but he is a 14-16million per year player. He’s a great offensive player. But we really get railroaded often on D, especially when we have STAT, Jrich, Nash, and Frye all on the court. I mean if you want to win a championship, you cannot let mediocre players like Steve Blake and Lamarcus Aldridge go off on you like they did. Sometimes that shit happens, but it happens all too often on our team.
So lets talk about improving the team: Nash is obviously not great on D, but quite frankly the suns wouldn’t even be good if he wasn’t on their team. So lets assume he’s staying.
When J-rich is playing well and shooting the ball well, We are REALLY tough to beat. Problem is, it seems he cant find any consistency to his game. When we lose games, he usually goes 2-9 from the field. I still think the trade for him and dudley was a good move. but his inconsitency is now hurting us badly
Pretty much a Wet Napkin plays better defense than Channing Frye, Hes was a nice pick up for what we are paying him. but we are getting no rebounding help or Defense from him when he is in the game. Thats why Robin Lopez is now starting at center.
I definately think we need to add some perimeter defense and inside D and rebounding if we are ever going to get over the hump. I would LOVE if he we were able to trade package of JRich, Frye, Barbosa + others for Iggy and Dalembert. I doubt some of those pieces work for philly to do that. Maybe can trade any of those players for other pieces that can help us.
STAT is the most valuable trade piece we have. It really should be no problem to bring back Iggy, Dalembert, and Beasley/ or a first round pick, if we worked out a three way
team deal with Philly and Miami. I would probably pull the trigger on that. Thats a nice haul. that definately upgrades our interior presence D and rebounding, perimeter D, and I believe would give us enough offensive points per night to replace Stoudemire, especially with Nash running the show for the next couple of years.
This is a all a little shortsighted
Not the article, but many of the comments.
1) There is no doubt in my mind or anyone else’s that the Kurt Thomas trade was ridiculous. For that alone we should be suspicious of stuff that Kerr does until he redeems himself in a major way. However, the other moves were, I think, not that bad.
~Marion HAD to go at some point. All reports indicate that he was having major problems with his role on the team. You can’t effectively argue that it was because he was being mentioned in trade rumors that he got upset. He was upset long before that. He was still a great player and I still miss his work, but it wasn’t the worst trade.
~Despite what most people here seem to believe, Shaq helped us out a lot in the areas that we needed help in. The trade was made (improvement wise) to shore up interior defense and rebounding, and to take “center” pressure off of Amare and play him at his "natural position. All those things happened. I don’t need to remind most of you that within 2 weeks of Shaq coming to Phx Amare started averaging nearly 30 a game and was playing really hard on both ends. Next season was a wash because the system was so different. Yet even so, our interior offense and defense and our rebounding was much better than it was without Shaq.
2) Many people here seem to think that the NBA is a stagnant system of teams that refuse to change their styles in order to do better. The argument that the Suns were “doing fine” before the trades buys into this notion. Even before the Shaq trade there were signs all over the league that the Suns style was changing things. Other teams were starting to play faster and the Suns’ system was no longer one that caught teams off guard and unable to get back for defense. The league changed and I am convinced that even if the Suns had never traded Marion, Raja and Boris (which I am glad they did) we would still be in the same position we are in. The league changed to adapt to our style. We need to live with that and stop pretending that nothing would have changed if Kerr hadn’t traded who he did.
Reading is good...
－１ ｔｏ Ｈ８ｌｏｌ： Ｙｏｕ ｍｉｓｓｅｄ ａ ｆｅｗ ｐｏｉｎｔｓ ｔｏｏ
Ｐｌｅａｓｅ ｎｏｔｅ ｔｈｅ Ｓｕｎｓ ｗａｓ ｌｅａｄｉｎｇ ｔｈｅ Ｗｅｓｔ ｂｅｆｏｒｅ Ｋｅｒｒ＇ｓ ｐａｎｉｃ ｔｒａｄｅｓ ａｎｄ ｓａｌａｒｙ ｄｕｍｐｉｎｇ ｍｏｖｅｓ．．．
１］ ＫＴ ｔｒａｄｅ ｗｉｔｈ ｐｉｃｋｓ ｗａｓ ｓｔｕｐｉｄ．
２］ ＪＲｉｃｈ ｔｒａｄｅ ｗａｓ ａ ｓａｌａｒｙ ｄｕｍｐ ａｎｄ ｍａｄｅ ｏｕｒ ｄｅｆｆｅｎｓｅ ｗｏｒｓｅ
３］Ｍａｒｉｏｎ： Ｔｈｅｒｅ ｗｅｒｅ ｃｏｎｆｌｉｃｔｉｎｇ ｒｅｐｏｒｔｓ ａｂｏｕｔ Ｍａｒｉｏｎ ｗａｎｔｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｓｔａｙ ａｎｄ ｇｏ ａｎｄ Ｍａｒｉｏｎ ｗａｓ ｔｉｒｅｄ ｏｆ ｂｅｉｎｇ ｓｈｏｐｐｅｄ ａｒｏｕｎｄ ｔｈｅ ｌｅａｇｕｅ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｌａｓｔ ２ ｓｅａｓｏｎｓ ｂｙ ｔｈｅ ｍａｎａｇｅｍｅｎｔ． Ｓｕｃｈ ｔｒａｄｅ ｔａｌｋｓ ａｒｅ ｔｈｅ ｐｅｒｓｏｎａｌ ｔｒａｄｅｍａｒｋ ｏｆ Ｓｕｎｓ ｍａｎａｇｅｍｅｎｔ， ｗｈｉｃｈ ａｆｆｅｃｔｓ ｂｏｔｈ ｔｈｅ ｐｌａｙ ａｎｄ ｔｅｍｐｅｒａｍｅｎｔ ｏｆ ｏｕｒ ｐｌａｙｅｒｓ． Ｎｏ ｏｎｅ ｃａｎ ｐｌａｙ ｏｒ ａｃｔ ｗｅｌｌ ｕｎｄｅｒ ｓｕｃｈ ｎｏｎｓｅｎｓｅ．Ｗｅ ａｌｓｏ ｎｅｅｄｅｄ ｈｉｍ ａｓ ｃｏｕｌｄ ｂｅ ｓｅｅｎ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ Ｋｅｒｒ－Ｂａｒｒｙ ｆｉａｓｃｏ， ｗｈｅｒｅ ｗｅ ｂｅｃａｍｅ ｓｈｏｒｔ ｏｆ ａ ｐｅｒｉｍｅｔｅｒ ３－ｐｏｉｎｔ ｓｈｏｏｔｉｎｇ ｔｏ ｓｐａｃｅ ｔｈｅ ｆｌｏｏｒｉｎｇ．
４］Ｓｈａｑ ｔｒａｄｅ ｍａｄｅ ｕｓ ｗｏｒｓｅ ｏｆｆ ｉｎ ｍａｎｙ ｗａｙｓ ｔｏｏ ａｆｔｅｒ Ｍｉｋｅ Ｄ ｌｅｆｔ． Ｏｕｒ ｏｆｆｅｎｓｅ ｇｅｔｓ ｓｌｏｗｅｄ ｄｏｗｎ ａｎｄ ｂｅｃｏｍｅｓ ｐｒｅｄｉｃｔａｂｌｅ．Ｎａｓｈ ｗａｓｎ＇ｔｒｅａｌｌｙ ａｄｅｐｔ ａｔ ｅｎｔｒｙ ｐａｓｓｅｓ ａｎｄ Ｉ ｆｅｌｔ ｗｅ ｃｏｍｐｒｏｍｉｓｅ ｔｈｅ ｐｌａｙ ａｎｄ ｅｎｔｈｕｓｉａｓｍ ｏｆ Ｎａｓｈ ａｎｄ Ａｍａｒｅ ｕｎｄｅｒ Ｐｏｒｔｅｒ．
５］Ｍｉｋｅ Ｄ ｌｅｆｔ ｐａｒｔｌｙ ｂｅｃｏｓ ｏｆ Ｋｅｒｒ．
６］Ｔｅａｍｓ ａｒｅ ｐｌａｙｉｎｇ ｍｏｒｅ ｓｍａｌｌ ｂａｌｌ ｔｈｅｓｅ ｄａｙｓ， ｓｏ ｐｌｅａｓｅ ｄｏｎ＇ｔ ｔｅｌｌ ｍｅ Ｓｕｎｓ＇ｗａｙｓ ｏｆ ｐｌａｙｉｎｇ ｉｓ ｎｏ ｌｏｎｇｅｒ ｒｅｌｅｖａｎｔ．．．
Sarver is responsible
Kerr has done the most with what he has been given. He has had a number of nice small pickups – Amundson, Frye, Dragic, etc. Tucker was a bust, but Lopez is good and the jury’s out on Clark. These were all mid-late first rounders, so you can’t ask for too much.
People kill him for the JRich trade, but would you guys rather have Diaw back, who’s contract runs a year longer that JRich’s? Could you stomach 2 more years + this season of Fat Boris? Who would be playing SG right now? The artist formerly known as Barbosa? We’d give up 150 points per game with LB’s horrible defense. We all know about Dudley as well. STOP killing him for this trade.
His biggest fault was getting a weak haul in the Marion trade, and that was a huge blow against his resume, but his hand was forced by management and bruised egos. Plus, we were a Duncan three from or a Stoudemire eye injury from seeing what that team really could have done. Don’t forget that.
I wouldn’t give Kerr an A, but he gets way too much undue criticism.
Ｂｏｒｉｓ ｇａｖｅ ｕｓ ｏｐｔｉｏｎｓ ａｓ ａ ｄｅｆｅｎｄｅｒ， ｐｌａｙｍａｋｅｒ ａｎｄ ｄｅｆｅｎｄｅｒ ｉｎ ｔｈｅ ｐｏｓｔ
Ａｎｄ Ｂｅｌｌ ｇａｖｅ ｕｓ ａ ｐｒｅｓｅｎｃｅ ｏｎ ｐｅｒｉｍｅｔｅｒ Ｄ．
ＪＲｉｃｈ ｉｓ ｎｏｔ ｒｅａｌｌｙ ｐｅｒｆｏｒｍｉｎｇ ｗｅｌｌ ａｎｄ ｈｅ ｄｉｓｓａｐｐｅａｒｓ ｍａｎｙ ｎｉｇｈｔｓ ｗｉｔｈ ｈｉｓ ｓｔｒｅａｋｙ ｓｈｏｏｔｉｎｇ．
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